German Football 20/21

Hansi Fick

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Least adventurous line-up under the circumstances, i actually have hopes for that Süle Hernandez pairing at CB.
If that's what it is. I would rather expect Alaba at CB and Lucas as left back, as has been Flick's preference.
 

Hansi Fick

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Ah yes, i got carried away there.
Would be awesome though if we had Pavard as CB while Süle is free to roam the right flank :drool:

But it's not going to happen. Pavard right back, Süle Alaba central defense, Lucas left back.
 

prateik

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Cup winner and 5th place = EL
6th place = ECL
Depends on the cup winner I think. If the cup winner is a CL participant (or 5th), the 6th gets Europa League, and the 7th Conference League.
Thanks.
So looks like if Dortmund finish 6th, Bremen winning the cup means no Europa League.. Holstein Kiel probably wont win. any other winner means Dortmund get Europa League.
 

Hansi Fick

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Thanks.
So looks like if Dortmund finish 6th, Bremen winning the cup means no Europa League.. Holstein Kiel probably wont win. any other winner means Dortmund get Europa League.
Them or Leipzig will win the Pokal anyway, so yes, they'll be in EL pretty certainly.
 

Hansi Fick

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Proper battle in which we've managed to get the edge. Loving our performance.

Leipzig continuing to suffer from their inexplicable aversion to the striker's position.
 

BayernFan87

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:lol:

He's not actually going to take Müller is he.
He'll actually leave a top 5 attacking player in the world at home while bringing Reus.
I think he will bring Müller and Hummels back. Everything else would be beyond stupid.
 

Zehner

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Same year, same procedure, nothing to see here.

Time to abandon 50+1.
 

Zehner

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Yes. Leipzig losing really proves that 50+1 is the problem. If only they weren't held back by it.
Leipzig challenging actually proves that it can work. At least there was a third club in reach for the first time in years.
 

Lagger

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Leipzig challenging actually proves that it can work. At least there was a third club in reach for the first time in years.
If 50+1 gets abandoned, who do you think would get the biggest deal out of it? Right.. so let's bury that pandora box back on the bad ideas heap where it belongs.
 

HerrLeinad

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Leipzig challenging actually proves that it can work. At least there was a third club in reach for the first time in years.
RBL is now 7 points behind us after 27 match days. Last season we were 4 points ahead of BVB at the same time. Great "proof"...
Let's also not forget that it's going to be the first season RBL will finished ahead of Dortmund and their success is more based on having Nagelsmann than anything else. Without him RBL will probably be as relevant as Wolfsburg or Leverkusen in the long run.
In the end it would need ManCity/PSG levels of craziness to actually create a team to challenge us constantly and 50+1 is not the reason why you will never see that in Germany (it simply won't be acceptable culturally and thus noone who is willing to invest that kind of money is going to do it in Germany).
 

GhastlyHun

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More and more rumours about Hansi Flick being unhappy with his role as 'merely' head coach with no say in transfer matters and squad planning. Apparently he'd like a more PL-like manager position. Or it's just he really can't stand Brazzo. In any case it's getting more likely that he could leave Bayern after this season.
 

Hansi Fick

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More and more rumours about Hansi Flick being unhappy with his role as 'merely' head coach with no say in transfer matters and squad planning. Apparently he'd like a more PL-like manager position. Or it's just he really can't stand Brazzo. In any case it's getting more likely that he could leave Bayern after this season.
The issue of Boateng almost comes across like a publicly held exhibition fight to demonstrate these frictions.

Several times now there've been 'leaked' articles in BILD etc, but also kicker, about how Boateng won't get a new contract offered, how the decision is definitive, this week even this absurd stuff with the supervisory board voting to deny him a new contract. Hoeness' annoying and uncalled for thing last week with how he wouldn't take Boateng to the NT now.
Each time Flick has reacted to the contrary, increasingly annoyed. It's kind of understandable, too, why he would be annoyed. Fans' and experts' opinions notwithstanding, Boateng-Alaba is quite clearly his preferred CB starting pair, the one he won the treble with; yet the club is letting both of them go at the same time.
 

do.ob

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Is this more than Bayern's annual "lets get rid of Boateng, oh wait he's starting every game after all" ritual?
 

Hansi Fick

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Is this more than Bayern's annual "lets get rid of Boateng, oh wait he's starting every game after all" ritual?
His contract is running out, so the usual approach of just-not-actually-selling-him-after-all will not be able to yield the same result this time.
 

King Kendrick

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question for the watchers of 2.BuLi.. even if Schalke (inconceivably) make it to the playoff spot, do you think they'd still go down against the 3d place team?
 

Kasper

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question for the watchers of 2.BuLi.. even if Schalke (inconceivably) make it to the playoff spot, do you think they'd still go down against the 3d place team?
The Bundesliga team wins the playoff in about ~80% of times I think (which is why it was a shit idea to reintroduce it) but Schalke will in no way reach the playoff spot.
 

Acrobat7

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question for the watchers of 2.BuLi.. even if Schalke (inconceivably) make it to the playoff spot, do you think they'd still go down against the 3d place team?
No need to worry. They will finish dead last and will go down (to hopefully play against HSV again).
 

stefan92

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Is this more than Bayern's annual "lets get rid of Boateng, oh wait he's starting every game after all" ritual?
I think it is - because this time it is not just about the player, but about board and coach publicly disagreeing over this issue. This is not just about Boateng, it is about who has power at the club.
 

do.ob

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This latest episode got me wondering: is Boateng the most underappreciated footballer in the country? Bayern are already losing their other starting CB, there have been doubts over Süle's professionalism. Denying Boateng a new contract to the point of irritating Flick seems hard to explain, especially since even his injury problems seem to have reverted to a normal level for years now. You wouldn't guess he's won two trebles and a World Cup based on how the media talks about him either; from Boateng's perspective they seem rather indifferent to the current situation, too.
Is it just that he got the "past it" label when he had those injuries and it stuck or that Hummels stole his spotlight by being the flashier player and more vocal/eloquent character? Or is there also a bit of racism at play here?
 
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Hansi Fick

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This latest episode got me wondering: is Boateng the most underappreciated footballer in the country? Bayern are already losing their other starting CB, there have been doubts over Süle's professionalism. Denying Boateng a new contract to the point of irritating Flick seems hard to explain, especially since even his injury problems seem to have reverted to a normal level for years now. You wouldn't guess he's won two trebles and a World Cup based on how the media talks about him either; they seem rather indifferent to the current situation, too.
Is it just that he got the "past it" label when he had those injuries and it stuck or that Hummels stole his spotlight by being the flashier player and more vocal/eloquent character? Or is there also a bit of racism at play here?
Yes to all the above.

Yes, I feel like he never quite got the recognition he deserves (and not just in the country), even if during the Pep years and right after the World Cup for a short while he was rated and lauded by everyone. But that evaporated quickly, especially since he got dribbled by Messi once which of course can't happen to a world class defender. Sometimes it's quite shocking how poorly people rate him when he's quite clearly among the greatest defenders to ever play for Bayern.

Yes, he is past it, physically, it's a running gag among us Bayern fans that he injures himself just a little everytime he has to make one sprint or stretch for a challenge

Yes, in light of the mild, but repeated and noticeable public dressing downs he has received over the years from the two main figures at our club, Rummenigge and Hoeness, you can't help but wonder if a German NT and Bayern team pillar with a paler complexion would have gotten the same treatment.
There's an element of racism, even if it's very diluted. It's more in the way that flashy or confident lifestyle choices of black players seem to get more eagerly attributed to bad mentality, lack of focus or substance. (There's of course also been very vocal and direct elements of racism, what with the attacks of prominent right wing politicians on him and the players of colour/of "Migrationshintergrund" in the NT.)

However, it might well be that the second point, in combination with the fact that he is on a seriously high salary (in that regard he did receive recognition from the club at his last extension..), would be the main reasons why the club has somewhat tried to offload him, even if I do find the casual and dismissive manner indeed very strange, too.

But he seems to epitomize the conflict between Brazzo and Flick for other reasons, Flick obviously regards the playmaking abilities of his CBs as most important over other attributes (which the team around Brazzo might see more clearly), and in this regard Boateng and Alaba are without comparison, and their leaving will represent an enormous loss of Spielstärke.
 
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stefan92

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Yes, in light of the mild, but repeated and noticeable public dressing downs he has received over the years from the two main figures at our club, Rummenigge and Hoeness, over the years; you can't help but wonder if a German NT and Bayern team pillar with a paler complexion would have gotten the same treatment. There's an element of racism, even if it's very diluted. It's more in the way that flashy or confident lifestyle choices of black players seem to get more eagerly attributed to bad mentality, lack of focus or substance. (There's of course also been very vocal and direct elements of racism, what with the attacks of prominent right wing politicians on him and the players of colour/of "Migrationshintergrund" in the NT.)
I don't think this is because he is black - every one with a flashy lifestyle is getting criticism at Bayern. Schweinsteiger in his early years for example was a good example - but later on when he calmed down and took more responsibility the criticism stopped.
 

Hansi Fick

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I don't think this is because he is black - every one with a flashy lifestyle is getting criticism at Bayern. Schweinsteiger in his early years for example was a good example - but later on when he calmed down and took more responsibility the criticism stopped.
While that is true, I feel that the verdict might be more definitive and unforgiving with black players (not talking just about Bayern).

You just have to wonder how well Boateng has to do for how long until they stop casually giving off the vibe of regarding him unfocused or borderline unprofessional, just because he has a sunglasses collection or an active PR team.
Müller performed poorly for a couple of years too, culminating in his wife denouncing the manager on social media, but he has been completely forgiven for that and rightly so of course.
Not saying Boateng is quite back to his best like Müller is, but he has been nothing but reliable within his reduced physical means (loss of pace..), and nothing but quality with the ball and as part of the team again.
 

do.ob

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I don't think this is because he is black - every one with a flashy lifestyle is getting criticism at Bayern. Schweinsteiger in his early years for example was a good example - but later on when he calmed down and took more responsibility the criticism stopped.
Schweinsteiger got that criticism while he was full on track to be an perennial talent. Boateng got this criticism as someone who won a CL and a WC starting every match for Bayern and die Mannschaft. Actually unprofessional people being called out doesn't prove that some players might be viewed more harshly, because of their skin colour or culture.
 

2ndTouch

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I don't think this is because he is black - every one with a flashy lifestyle is getting criticism at Bayern. Schweinsteiger in his early years for example was a good example - but later on when he calmed down and took more responsibility the criticism stopped.
You don't have to go back that far. Just remember the recent drubbings Süle had to endure from our higher ups.
Also, the occasional ugly detail emerging from his private life, his last ex's suicide and his part in the media shenenigans beforehand being the latest example, certainly didn't help either.
Well this, and that he simply turns 33 this year, and is in physical decline. There's Upa, Süle, Pavard and Nianzou, who can all play his position., so it's not like we'd run out of CBs, even after Alaba's and his departure.
 

kaiser1

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I know the Bayern hierarchy fiercely defend their own in the media against public attacks seem Boateng is an exception and this has been on for almost 4yrs non stop from Kalle and Ulli coinciding with when he signed with JayZ. The 2 guys always seem to never see any good in him
 

HerrLeinad

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I know the Bayern hierarchy fiercely defend their own in the media against public attacks seem Boateng is an exception and this has been on for almost 4yrs non stop from Kalle and Ulli coinciding with when he signed with JayZ. The 2 guys always seem to never see any good in him
Because prior to Flick Boateng didn't perform in these 4 years to the level everyone expects of him and one might argue his lack of focus also didn't help with his injury record. Let's also not forget that the club DID put a lot of trust into the young Boateng and DID defend him in the past too so this isn't a totally black and white story.
I think in the end it's down to the fact that Boateng lost focus in the last couple of years and combined with mediocre performances, injuries and a questionable lifestyle (you can argue that's his thing but it still reflects on the club) as well as his push to leave the club 2 years ago simply means he doesn't have as much credit as he used to have. He used up whatever goodwill there was so people shouldn't be too surprised that the club isn't too eager to extend with a 32 year old Boateng who isn't going to accept lower wages.
It should also be mentioned that we already have replacements ready and that Boateng only played 1,5 of 4 half times in the CL finale/semi finale. Boateng is a good CB at the moment but also not great or exceptional. He is certainly reliable but let's not forget that our defense is currently out biggest weakness (our defensive record in the league is the worst we have had in decades) and Boateng/Alaba are at the core of that defense. That doesn't mean I'd blame it just on them either (it's clearly also down to the overall performance/tactics) but it should be mentioned because sometimes you'd think Alaba/Boateng are prime Ramos/Van Dijk in discussions like this. We let someone like Hummels go who is still performing at a better level if I'm being completely honest.
 

kaiser1

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Because prior to Flick Boateng didn't perform in these 4 years to the level everyone expects of him and one might argue his lack of focus also didn't help with his injury record. Let's also not forget that the club DID put a lot of trust into the young Boateng and DID defend him in the past too so this isn't a totally black and white story.
I think in the end it's down to the fact that Boateng lost focus in the last couple of years and combined with mediocre performances, injuries and a questionable lifestyle (you can argue that's his thing but it still reflects on the club) as well as his push to leave the club 2 years ago simply means he doesn't have as much credit as he used to have. He used up whatever goodwill there was so people shouldn't be too surprised that the club isn't too eager to extend with a 32 year old Boateng who isn't going to accept lower wages.
It should also be mentioned that we already have replacements ready and that Boateng only played 1,5 of 4 half times in the CL finale/semi finale. Boateng is a good CB at the moment but also not great or exceptional. He is certainly reliable but let's not forget that our defense is currently out biggest weakness (our defensive record in the league is the worst we have had in decades) and Boateng/Alaba are at the core of that defense. That doesn't mean I'd blame it just on them either (it's clearly also down to the overall performance/tactics) but it should be mentioned because sometimes you'd think Alaba/Boateng are prime Ramos/Van Dijk in discussions like this. We let someone like Hummels go who is still performing at a better level if I'm being completely honest.
Prior to Flick, many Bayern players did not perform to the level expected of them including Neuer and Muller but none has been publicly crucified as much as Boateng.
Last weeks Ulli was advocating for the return of the exiled players back to the NT but pointedly said Boateng shouldn't be. If you had to go that length to discredit a player that plays for your club then it's probably personal. Boateng at the moment is probably Germanys best defender or top 2 at worst. Who are our choices in CB? Ginter, Sule Rudiger Hummels

I don't think Hummels this season is performing at a level better than Boateng