German Football 20/21

King Kendrick

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To prevent the thread from getting derailed, let's move the current North-American-related discussions over to the relevant U.S.-soccer threads (or create a new thread if you guys want :)).



Regardless of what we think of Jesse Marsch, at least Leipzig's squad is one of the best in the Bundesliga. At their very worst, they're the third-best team in the league, and despite losing Upamecano and possibly Konaté, they do have two young, promising defenders coming up to take their place in both Josko Gvardiol and Mohamed Simakan. That's the key for them: they have a pipeline of promising young players that come through and take the place of those who depart, which should ideally protect them from going downhill, though Dortmund have shown that this approach doesn't necessarily fully protect you.
Actually I think thats why theyll struggle next season, assuming Konate leaves. Reason for them being in the title race is that they have a great defensive unit, the forwards just havent done all that well this season. You take away the starting CBs, I dont know if their replacements can replicate that level of success right from the off, and thats before accounting for Nagels leaving.
 
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mazhar13

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Actually I think thats why theyll struggle next season, assuming Konate leaves. Reason for them being in the title race is that they have a great defensive unit, the forwards just havent done all that well this season. You take away the starting CBs, I dont know if their replacements can replicate that level of success right from the off, and thats before accounting for Nagels leaving.
We'll see how they perform. From what I've read about both of them, though, they're both very talented, and both are capable of playing at the highest level. With Simakan in particular, both Chelsea and AC Milan were strongly linked with him.
 

stefan92

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Not the most surprising news either.
Not surprising, but important for them. Now they can involve him in getting a new coach (he might officially start working next month, but I'm sure he will already give a go/no-go for the candidates Frankfurt have).
 

Anduin

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Dortmund 3-0 up after 25 minutes in the cup semifinal v Kiel, easiest game of the season so far for them.
 

do.ob

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Kiel finding out the hard way that it's not always that easy against the Bundesliga teams. :cool:
 

JuliaScalaR

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Poor Kiel :(
They started pretty decent, it reminded me of the Bayern game. Hopefully this drubbing doesn't interfere with their pursuit of Bundesliga promotion.
 

do.ob

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Disappointing game from Kiel, even for a second division side. Though I'm not sure I would blame them for it, with promotion on their mind and their two week quarantine messing with their schedule.
 

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That looked like serious knee damage for Morey. Very, very bitter.
 

Swarm

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It actually made me sick to my stomach hearing Morey's screams. That looked really serious, probably won't be playing any more football this year. He already tore his meniscus a few years back, does anyone know if that was the same knee? I'm honestly really worried if he will be able to keep playing at all. Such a downer in this great game for a Dortmund supporter. :(
 

Cardboard elk

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It actually made me sick to my stomach hearing Morey's screams. That looked really serious, probably won't be playing any more football this year. He already tore his meniscus a few years back, does anyone know if that was the same knee? I'm honestly really worried if he will be able to keep playing at all. Such a downer in this great game for a Dortmund supporter. :(
Horrible listening to his screams!!! That must have hurt so much. The knee is not meant to go that way. Poor lad...

If you get access from abroad, there is videos of it in a norwegian newspaper https://www.dagbladet.no/studio/sportsstudio/307?post=63030
 

JuliaScalaR

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This is the stuff nightmares are made of. You don't want to watch this.
 

do.ob

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No one can take a joke these days..just kidding
 
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Hansi Fick

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No one can take a joke these days..just kiddingg
Impressive command of historical knowledge, really, to even be able to name such a specific Nazi judge to use as an insult. He should be applauded, not criticized.
Try scoring points in the schoolyard by saying "You're a regular Roland Freisler, are you"
 

Rektsanwalt

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No one can take a joke these days..just kidding
at first you got me man, great one :lol: :lol: :lol:

was already fuming and wrote like an essay about how wrong all of this is, being a lawyer myself and blablabla until I looked at it again and saw it

Impressive command of historical knowledge, really, to even be able to name such a specific Nazi judge to use as an insult. He should be applauded, not criticized.
Try scoring points in the schoolyard by saying "You're a regular Roland Freisler, are you"
what does that even mean? Is this serious? Everybody knows Freisler
 

stefan92

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Is this serious? Everybody knows Freisler
Nope. No one cares about who was president of the highest court during the Nazi time. That name is not known to a lot of people, might be different for lawyers (like you said you are) etc, but outside of the law studies Freisler is not a generally important figure everyone knows about.
 

Rektsanwalt

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Nope. No one cares about who was president of the highest court during the Nazi time. That name is not known to a lot of people, might be different for lawyers (like you said you are) etc, but outside of the law studies Freisler is not a generally important figure everyone knows about.
I first learned about him in school where history about nazi Germany was basically taught in every subject every year. No one cares about him? Do people really not know stuff about Sophie Scholl? About Stauffenberg and his colleagues? That's really surprising to me.
 

do.ob

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Nope. No one cares about who was president of the highest court during the Nazi time. That name is not known to a lot of people, might be different for lawyers (like you said you are) etc, but outside of the law studies Freisler is not a generally important figure everyone knows about.
I heard about him at school even. I think he's one of the more prominent Nazis and he's basically used as the face of the entire judicial system of that time.


On topic: it's all just so cringy. Keller casually comparing someone to a murdering Nazi reminds me more of some Korn fuelled local club meeting than a DFB leadership meeting and while I guess it really is something he should resign over, the other side look opportunistic to me as well, especially considering that Curtius, who supposedly was the one who alerted the ethics committee to this incident, was "no confidenced" together with Keller.
 
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Hansi Fick

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what does that even mean? Is this serious? Everybody knows Freisler
On a schoolyard? Or in a football stand? No they don't.
I'm sure I had learned and read about him many times before, still wouldn't have been able to come up with the name.

I first learned about him in school where history about nazi Germany was basically taught in every subject every year. No one cares about him? Do people really not know stuff about Sophie Scholl? About Stauffenberg and his colleagues? That's really surprising to me.
People knowing the household names Stauffenberg and Sophie Scholl (100th birthday these days so just read another article about her today, didn't know she was an ardent BDM member..) from movies or history 101 doesn't mean they know the name of the judge that had them executed.
 
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Hansi Fick

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https://www.ard.de/home/wissen/Nationalsozialismus__Die_wichtigsten_Koepfe/1588886/index.html

ARD lists him as one of the top 15 influential nazis. So let's agree to disagree in this case.
I'm not sure what's your point. I'm not claiming the guy was not an influential Nazi and is not an important historical figure.

But you don't seriously believe that, if you go out on the street right now and ask 10 people "Who is Roland Freisler?" (you might even make that Heydrich or Speer), you've got good chances of having 1 of 10 being able to give an answer.
 

Rektsanwalt

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I'm not sure what's your point. I'm not claiming the guy was not an influential Nazi and is not an important historical figure.

But you don't seriously believe that, if you go out on the street right now and ask 10 people "Who is Roland Freisler?" (you might even make that Heydrich or Speer), you've got good chances of having 1 of 10 being able to give an answer.
Impressive command of historical knowledge, really, to even be able to name such a specific Nazi judge to use as an insult. He should be applauded, not criticized.
My point is, it's common knowledge and absolutely not impressive nor should anybody applauded for knowing a top 15 nazi as a german (at least no one older than maybe 20 or so). Obviously if you ask random people on the street (they're not representative) they might say that cocoa drinks come from brown cows.
 

Hansi Fick

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My point is, it's common knowledge and absolutely not impressive nor should anybody applauded for knowing a top 15 nazi as a german (at least no one older than maybe 20 or so). Obviously if you ask random people on the street (they're not representative) they might say that cocoa drinks come from brown cows.
You could also select them representatively and make a proper survey. Still won't be more than 2 out of 10 who have instant command of who that person is. In that sense, it is not common knowledge at all.

But, you do realize that it was a tongue-in-cheek comment about the Keller affair? Because to me, it's funny that he would use such a specific insult?
 

JuliaScalaR

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You could also select them representatively and make a proper survey. Still won't be more than 2 out of 10 who have instant command of who that person is. In that sense, it is not common knowledge at all.

But, you do realize that it was a tongue-in-cheek comment about the Keller affair? Because to me, it's funny that he would use such a specific insult?

If we assume that Keller wanted to be extra naughty, he may have used the comparison, because it's such a specific insult. After all Rainer Koch was a judge before he became a football official.
 

do.ob

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We all love to joke about Hamburg, but to be fair I don't think it was such a strange decision. The team choked really badly. Five consecutive games without a win, against mediocre opponents! I haven't watched them enough to argue whether Thioune's football deserved another season, but in general that merits looking for another coach. And if you already know your current coach will not survive the summer and things are looking pretty hopeless in the short term, then you might as well roll the dice with Hrubesch. They have got nothing left to lose anyway.
 

stefan92

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We all love to joke about Hamburg, but to be fair I don't think it was such a strange decision. The team choked really badly. Five consecutive games without a win, against mediocre opponents! I haven't watched them enough to argue whether Thioune's football deserved another season, but in general that merits looking for another coach. And if you already know your current coach will not survive the summer and things are looking pretty hopeless in the short term, then you might as well roll the dice with Hrubesch. They have got nothing left to lose anyway.
You are right, but it still feels like they are making this change too late. They so far only won three games in the second half of the season (so in the last 14 games) - that is a disaster for a team that wants to win the league. It's not in their hands anymore now, and that is a really bad situation for them.
 

Zehner

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We all love to joke about Hamburg, but to be fair I don't think it was such a strange decision. The team choked really badly. Five consecutive games without a win, against mediocre opponents! I haven't watched them enough to argue whether Thioune's football deserved another season, but in general that merits looking for another coach. And if you already know your current coach will not survive the summer and things are looking pretty hopeless in the short term, then you might as well roll the dice with Hrubesch. They have got nothing left to lose anyway.
I think it is more suspicious that they end up in this situation almost every season, regardless who's on the bench.
 

do.ob

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You are right, but it still feels like they are making this change too late. They so far only won three games in the second half of the season (so in the last 14 games) - that is a disaster for a team that wants to win the league. It's not in their hands anymore now, and that is a really bad situation for them.
In hindsight sure, but in reality the timing never was that obvious: they had an initial run of five games without a win, but that one included draws against Fürth and Kiel and it was concluded by wins against Bochum and Heidenheim, after which they were just two points from the top.
 

The Corinthian

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Bundesliga is such a banter league. Bayern Munich are paying €62m to take their closest rivals coach and best player.
 

do.ob

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I think it is more suspicious that they end up in this situation almost every season, regardless who's on the bench.
It has to be the pressure. They have tried different coaches, they have rebuilt their squad to a degree and they always manage to stay on course for promotion for the first 30 matches or so, so it's not like they simply aren't good enough.



Bundesliga is such a banter league. Bayern Munich are paying €62m to take their closest rivals coach and best player.
Thank you for that analysis. I'm sure it took you much effort.
 

Cheimoon

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Bundesliga is such a banter league. Bayern Munich are paying €62m to take their closest rivals coach and best player.
This has been discussed at length across various threads, and the Nagelsmann one in particular. It's really unhelpful to keep getting these one-liners from different posters (you're far from the only one). It adds absolutely nothing - it didn't the first time and even less so now that it's old news.
 

stefan92

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In hindsight sure, but in reality the timing never was that obvious: they had an initial run of five games without a win, but that one included draws against Fürth and Kiel and it was concluded by wins against Bochum and Heidenheim, after which they were just two points from the top.
The loss against Sandhausen. The two games after that were just a waste of time, and it was relatively clear from the reactions after that match, that they had no idea how to turn around.
 

do.ob

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The loss against Sandhausen. The two games after that were just a waste of time, and it was relatively clear from the reactions after that match, that they had no idea how to turn around.
I'm all for taking decisive action when you realize something isn't going to work out, but to sack a coach after three bad matches is a gutsy move. It could very well have been merited (I haven't paid that close attention), but that's also the kicker of a chaotic club like Hamburg, they have sacked so many coaches so soon that when it's actually necessary they hesitate, because they are afraid of repeating past mistakes and how it looks to sack yet another coach.


Big Hertha on the ropes against Mainz currently. Luckily they have a Schalke game in hand.
 

HisNameIsEarl

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You could also select them representatively and make a proper survey. Still won't be more than 2 out of 10 who have instant command of who that person is. In that sense, it is not common knowledge at all.

But, you do realize that it was a tongue-in-cheek comment about the Keller affair? Because to me, it's funny that he would use such a specific insult?
We may assume that both, Keller and Koch have that knowledge and also that Keller was sure Koch knowing Freisler. For people of their age and education we should assume this as common knowledge.