German Football 20/21

[do.ob]

Last season’s table:

Wolfsburg play the EL qualifier, promoted sides are Stuttgart [got relegated in 18/19] and Bielefeld [used to be a regular in the noughties, but got relegated in 08/09]

Schedule:
The season kicks off with Bayern vs Schalke on Friday September 18th
https://www.bundesliga.com/en/bundesliga/matchday

List of broadcasters:
https://www.bundesliga.com/en/bundesliga/info/broadcasters/EUROPE/de

Newly hired coaches over the summer:
Sebastian Hoeneß, Hoffenheim.

Notable signings [August 25th]:
Bayern: Leroy Sane [Man City, €45m], Kouassi [PSG, free]
Dortmund Jude Bellingham [Birmingham, €26.5m], Thomas Meunier [PSG, free], Reinier [Real Madrid, loan]
Leipzig: Hee-chan Hwang [Salzburg, €9m], Benjamin Henrichs [Monaco, loan]
Gladbach:Valentino Lazaro [Inter, loan]
U. Berlin: Max Kruse [Fenerbahce, free]
Werder Bremen: Tahith Chong [Man Utd, loan]

Official English Coverage:
https://www.bundesliga.com/en/bundesliga

An introduction to a couple of Bundesliga topics and memes
https://11freunde.de/artikel/this-is-claudio-he-plays-in-bundesliga-since-1972/1941365

The obligatory stupid what club should I follow flowchart
https://www.bundesliga.com/en/bunde...upport-personality-test-bayern-dortmund-11091

Twitter:
https://twitter.com/BundesPL [stats and tactics]
https://twitter.com/GERFootDaily [news aggregator]
https://twitter.com/GGFN_ [news aggregator]
https://twitter.com/cfbayern [Bild's head of football]
https://twitter.com/michael_karbach [physics professor who really likes charting Bundesliga stats]
https://twitter.com/cc_eckner [originates from the same tactics blog as Rene Maric, now a freelance writer, since Corona quite a few articles for English publications as well]

Some hip quotes you can impress your friends with:

“Man, I’m so excited to see how Urs Fischer is going to fit in Max Kruse.”

“I really think Hertha is a dark horse for top 4 this season, they looked really well organized after the restart and they won’t have to deal with EL football.”

“I can’t believe Schalke stuck with Wagner despite 16 matches in a row without a win. Their starting schedule is so brutal, I think they really could get relegated this year.”

“Missing out on top 7 could be a blessing in disguise for Freiburg, Streich is a great person, but they have lost so much quality with Schwolow (SO UNDERRATED I TELL YOU) and Waldschmidt.”

“I’m so excited to see young Hoeneß getting the job in Hoffenheim.. Did you know he’s Uli’s Nephew? Most people don’t know this but his father Dieter was also a prominent footballer.”

“I was so over the moon that Union Berlin got to stay up, they truly are a modern fairy tale.”

“I can’t wait for Yussufa Moukoko to turn 16.”

"Cunha is my favourite player."

"I love how Rene Maric worked his way up from tactics blogger to Marco Rose's assistant."

"I always believed in Kohfeldt"



@Damien can you swap the stickies please

 

[GhastlyHun]

Some hip quotes you can impress your friends with:

“Man, I’m so excited to see how Urs Fischer is going to fit in Max Kruse.”

“I really think Hertha is a dark horse for top 4 this season, they looked really well organized after the restart and they won’t have to deal with EL football.”

“I can’t believe Schalke stuck with Wagner despite 16 matches in a row without a win. Their starting schedule is so brutal, I think they really could get relegated this year.”

“Missing out on top 7 could be a blessing in disguise for Freiburg, Streich is a great person, but they have lost so much quality with Schwolow (SO UNDERRATED I TELL YOU) and Waldschmidt.”

“I’m so excited to see young Hoeneß getting the job in Hoffenheim.. Did you know he’s Uli’s Nephew? Most people don’t know this but his father Dieter was also a prominent footballer.”

“I was so over the moon that Union Berlin got to stay up, they truly are a modern fairy tale.”

“I can’t wait for Yussufa Moukoko to turn 16.”

"Cunha is my favourite player."

"I love how Rene Maric worked his way up from tactics blogger to Marco Rose's assistant."

"I always believed in Kohfeldt"

These are fantastic

 

[Suedesi]

I'll be paying closer attention to the league - Leipzig and Gladbach play fine football, Dortmund are usually attractive and Bayern are Bayern.

 

[Acrobat7]

These are fantastic

Indeed! Well done @do.ob

 

[Kasper]

Would like to see Gladbach win the league, Frankfurt, Hertha and Bremen in the CL with Leipzig, Wolfsburg and Hoffenheim relegated.

 

[.mica]

Would like to see Gladbach win the league, Frankfurt, Hertha and Bremen in the CL with Leipzig, Wolfsburg and Hoffenheim relegated.

Nah, Schalke worked so hard for relegation all those years, all this mismanagment, all this terrible football, they finally deserve it. Apropos:

 

[Frasbul]

Not calling this ”Bundesliga 20/21“ is huge. I‘m not sure how I feel about this.

 

[Piratesoup]

Some hip quotes you can impress your friends with:

“Man, I’m so excited to see how Urs Fischer is going to fit in Max Kruse.”

“I really think Hertha is a dark horse for top 4 this season, they looked really well organized after the restart and they won’t have to deal with EL football.”

“I can’t believe Schalke stuck with Wagner despite 16 matches in a row without a win. Their starting schedule is so brutal, I think they really could get relegated this year.”

“Missing out on top 7 could be a blessing in disguise for Freiburg, Streich is a great person, but they have lost so much quality with Schwolow (SO UNDERRATED I TELL YOU) and Waldschmidt.”

“I’m so excited to see young Hoeneß getting the job in Hoffenheim.. Did you know he’s Uli’s Nephew? Most people don’t know this but his father Dieter was also a prominent footballer.”

“I was so over the moon that Union Berlin got to stay up, they truly are a modern fairy tale.”

“I can’t wait for Yussufa Moukoko to turn 16.”

"Cunha is my favourite player."

"I love how Rene Maric worked his way up from tactics blogger to Marco Rose's assistant."

"I always believed in Kohfeldt"

Take a bow!
Top notch sticky overall, I also like the name change.

 

[GhastlyHun]

I claim partial authorship for the 'Sebastian Hoeneß, Uli's nephew' one, since i used that exact description in the old thread

 

[NYAS]

Not calling this ”Bundesliga 20/21“ is huge. I‘m not sure how I feel about this.

@do.ob Is a legend for that, it’s been a pet peeve of mine for years and I complained about it a couple of times when people were talking about Pokal games in the Bundesliga thread!

 

[Piratesoup]

@do.ob Is a legend for that, it’s been a pet peeve of mine for years and I complained about it a couple of times when people were talking about Pokal games in the Bundesliga thread!

Same, it was pathetically aggravating.

 

[do.ob]

It was just time to break the chains of oppression that bound us to nonsensical thread titles.

 

[GhastlyHun]

It was just time to break the chains of oppression that bound us to nonsensical thread titles.

Bundesliga lives m... nah, sorry, I'll show myself out.

 

[Cheimoon]

@do.ob Is a legend for that, it’s been a pet peeve of mine for years and I complained about it a couple of times when people were talking about Pokal games in the Bundesliga thread!

And then those discussions about promotion/relegation in the 2. Bundesliga. I guess you could say they're part of 'Bundesliga', but it was reaaaally stretching things.

 

[strongwalker]

@do.ob Is a legend for that, it’s been a pet peeve of mine for years and I complained about it a couple of times when people were talking about Pokal games in the Bundesliga thread!

I can give match day reports from Verbansliga Südbaden now? Sweeeeeet

(love the power phrases, too top notch job @do.ob!

 

[do.ob]

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As far as I know this isn't final yet, but it almost certainly dashes the hopes of bringing some fans back soon.

 

[Piratesoup]

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As far as I know this isn't final yet, but it almost certainly dashes the hopes of bringing some fans back soon.

If it means we get a couple more months without nonsensical halftime interviews with c-list celebrities, I'm all for ut.

 

[do.ob]

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So there is a way after all. I reckon if politicans are somewhat open to it the league will find a way, at least as long as the virus seems under control.

 

[do.ob]

Is it just me or does Leverkusen's "Hinrunde" look a bit fecked?
Pre- and off-season disrupted by the EL tournament. With Havertz and Volland their only consistent attackers, who probably made up 60% of their goals, are gone - the latter for an absolute pittance if reports are to be believed. Whoever they sign will probably come after the international games, so basically at the same time their season kicks off with the cup. All of this with the context that Bayern, Dortmund and Leipzig are better anyway and Gladbach kept their squad together, perhaps even strengthening it with their loans.

 

[Acrobat7]

Is it just me or does Leverkusen's "Hinrunde" look a bit fecked?
Pre- and off-season disrupted by the EL tournament. With Havertz and Volland their only consistent attackers, who probably made up 60% of their goals, are gone - the latter for an absolute pittance if reports are to be believed. Whoever they sign will probably come after the international games, so basically at the same time their season kicks off with the cup. All of this with the context that Bayern, Dortmund and Leipzig are better anyway and Gladbach kept their squad together, perhaps even strengthening it with their loans.

Did they sign Schick or is it not finalized yet? But yes, the are currently in desperate need of goal and assist creators.

 

[do.ob]

Did they sign Schick or is it not finalized yet? But yes, the are currently in desperate need of goal and assist creators.

Last I heard it was reported as a formality for around €25m upfront. Assuming he can replicate his Leipzig Form he's probably a good replacement for Volland, though if the touted numbers are correct they will also dip into the Havertz money to finance him.

But that's just the nominally inferior departure covered. No mention of a highly rated attacking player yet and no defenders that could turn this window into a one step backwards two steps forward kind of story.

 

[Pagh Wraith]

More and more teams are announcing they will be starting the season with fans in the stadiums. Great news.

 

[Cheimoon]

More and more teams are announcing they will be starting the season with fans in the stadiums. Great news.

Partial capacity, I suppose? What's the rule for that in Germany? (Or for each Land individually.)

 

[Blackwidow]

Partial capacity, I suppose? What's the rule for that in Germany? (Or for each Land individually.)

16 states, 16 different rules that depend on the local infection situation, too.

 

[Rektsanwalt]

Partial capacity, I suppose? What's the rule for that in Germany? (Or for each Land individually.)

16 states, 16 different rules that depend on the local infection situation, too.

Exactly, it will be an absolute mess and pretty much impossible to really understand these rules and concepts. They're most likely shit anyway since the one which helped ending the league was shit as well and I personally think it's a miracle that everything worked out the way it did. Everybody knows that players, coaches and the med staff will never even have really tried to social distance when nobody is watching them.

On a completely different note, it's pretty sad that Havertz and Werner are off to Chelsea since they both played a big part in their clubs. Both are German nationalplayers and the league loses out quite a bit of them leaving. Unfortunately, this is what happens with top notch Bundesliga players that Bayern doesn't want or can't afford: They just leave somewhere else and the clubs have issues to replace them (Dortmund doing a great job at replacing, but at the cost of being a stagnating selling club) and the overall league quality can only be held or it's getting worse. These two players leaving once again shows that it's not up to Bayern to stop Bayern Bundesliga players, but for other clubs to step up their game. The only thing that happens if Bayern stops putting in as much effort and money will be the league getting worse overall and the players will just go abroad.

 

[Lay]

Schalke always seem to be in a crisis.

 

[RedPed]

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Looks like Chong is settling in well.

 

[Rektsanwalt]

Schalke always seem to be in a crisis.

That's absolutely true for a long time

Looks like Chong is settling in well.

Really looking forward to see him playing against better teams, though. These test games against clubs from the 4th league do not mean a lot, I'd say. Best thing is though, Bremen is so bad, he'll play a lot in any case.

5 days until the first DFB-Pokal match, 12 days until the first Bundesliga match (in which will Schalke resemble Barcelona, funny thing to say ). It's pretty obvious this tight schedule is a nono for the players, it seems extremely demanding, especially for those who participated in the later stages of the UCL and now maybe even the national team. Even if there was a break during the spring corona peak, this season will really test the players' fitness to the maximum. Even when it's finished, there'll be the Europa championship and no real summer break and afterwards the next season and so forth. I expect a lot of drained players and it's not unlikely that there could be more injuries in general, which is why I hope the teams act accordingly and plan for this situation. Most squads will need depths more than peak quality for the next time.

 

[Blackwidow]

Partial capacity, I suppose? What's the rule for that in Germany? (Or for each Land individually.)

That is how many people would be allowed in the stadiums right now in the different regions:

 

[VorZakone]

Any interesting players to keep an eye on this season? Doesn't have to be a youngster, can also be a guy in his mid 20s who is showing signs of turning into a quality player.

 

[Cheimoon]

That is how many people would be allowed in the stadiums right now in the different regions:

Interesting. Only the 1. Bundesliga and irrespective of stadium size I suppose? (Since the region colours seem to indicate the presence of a team.)

I wonder how those different numbers will affect home advantage. Quite a difference between the Leipzig and Berlin teams vs. all the rest.

 

[Blackwidow]

Interesting. Only the 1. Bundesliga and irrespective of stadium size I suppose? (Since the region colours seem to indicate the presence of a team.)

I wonder how those different numbers will affect home advantage. Quite a difference between the Leipzig and Berlin teams vs. all the rest.

The West was harder hit by Corona than the East of Germany. And yes, just the 1st Bundesliga - there is states without clubs.
And that it is the situation until end of October - and for e.g. Leipzig just if the Covid numbers do not change.

As Leipzig now somehow is the test for every other team there is not much discussion about home advantage - but it probably would be if the limits stay the same after the 3 home games until November.

 

[Pagh Wraith]

Dresden could be playing in front of 15,000 even which would be half capacity.

The effect on home advantage shouldn't be too big. It was roughly 0.3 goals before Corona and roughly 0.15 after so with some fans back in the stadium somewhere in between.

 

[Blackwidow]

The most interesting today is that Bayern that "Good Bye" to Ivan Perisic. Until now it was still open if they would buy him - but the package with transfer fee (and high wage for a 4th winger) that Inter called for seems to have been over the limit Bayern would have wanted to pay.

 

[do.ob]

According to SportBild Schalke are late with their payment of the cut their player's agents get from wages. A sum of €2.5m which was due in June. They claim Schalke have even been negotiating a 5% discount with the agents.

https://www.fussballtransfers.com/a2911582068135255925-schalke-bei-beratern-in-der-kreide


At this point even if they somehow manage to juggle all their financial obligations whether the toll it takes on the quality of their squad and coaching won't get them relegated.

 

[Piratesoup]

Schalke needs to go down. Their suffering has gone on long enough, time for a plug pulling and a rebirth.

 

[do.ob]

Schalke needs to go down. Their suffering has gone on long enough, time for a plug pulling and a rebirth.

I think these supposed blessing in disguise relegations are one of the biggest and silliest myths that football fans tell themselves. Look how much good it has done Hamburg or Stuttgart. Bochum fans told themselves a similar fairytale and I'm sure Lautern's fans as well.
And Schalke are so fecked financially I expect that if they go down it will be all the way out of business.
The club's "brand value" is so strong that they would probably be able to rise from the ashes quite quickly, but it would take them a decade or two to get back to the top whereas if they manage to keep their plates spinning, like Dortmund did during their brush with bankruptcy, then they can probably consolidate and come back in a couple of years. They have a "natural" revenue of like €200m a few years of frugal spending and they can get on top of even their current debt.

Edit: actually since they always proudly kept their eV status they could even lose their brand as in logo and name rights to creditors as far as I know.

 

[2ndTouch]

At this point even if they somehow manage to juggle all their financial obligations whether the toll it takes on the quality of their squad and coaching won't get them relegated.

One really has to wonder where they stem from. They've had a shite squad for 10 years straight. Unbelievable.

 

[do.ob]

One really has to wonder where they stem from. They've had a shite squad for 10 years straight. Unbelievable.

The original debt came from when they built their stadium, I think they have kept pushing part of it in front of them via refinancing.
Another big factor are probably their incredibly swingy results on the pitch, these past 10-15 years they several times had one or two good years that prompted investment in relatively big name signings that got CL level wages and then they followed that up with disastrous seasons that burned holes into their revenue calculations and squad value. The latest example being Tedesco's time there with Rudy as the prime example, a player they bought for €20m, gave probably annual wages of €6m or more, because he was supposed to jumpstart their possession game and four weeks into the season Tedesco abandoned that idea went back to goofball, Rudy became obsolete, got loaned out to Hoffenheim the next summer and now he's back, but no one wants to sign him given the wages he's on, so the latest story is that Schalke are going to reintegtate him as a RB, because they can't afford to sign one. Bentaleb is a similar story and there are many more.
And lastly: going through a coach per season doesn't come cheap either.

 

[PedroMendez]

they had anoverpaid squad in 2009. At this point their finances weren't great at all and they already spent every penny they got their hands on. Instead of making a cut to consolidate (=ship out the top earners), they signed Felix Magath who was supposed to make them competitive again. While the transfer fees weren't insane, he went on a signing spree and I am certain that the wages were nothing to sneeze at. They havn't learn anything from that.

I remember vaguely, that they signed Sindey Sam in 14/15. This transfer encapsulates all their mistakes. He was madly injury prone and played probably the best (half) season of his career for Leverkusen. They threw a shitload of cash at him, because otherwise he wouldn't have joined them. The same happened more or less one year later with Di Santo. Players like Bentaleb or Konyoplanka joined them because no other club would have offered them similar wages, while these players added "international flair" for their fans. Their fans still talked about competing for titles, when they should have worried about the financial survival of their club.

There were plenty of credible reports, that they sold future income streams to get cash during the last 5-10 years. They always spent on a level where they needed regular CL / EL to finance it. In the last 6 years they qualified once for the CL and twice for the EL. Thats not sustainable.


Holtby, Huntelaar, Jurado, Escudero, Raul, Metzelder, Ciprian Marica, Obasi, Michel Bastos, Barnetta, Neustädter, Boateng, Aogo, Sidney Sam, Nastasic, Di Santo, Embolo, Stambouli, Coke, Naldo, Konoplyanka, Bentaleb, Rudy, Mascarell. They are like a magnet for these players.