German Football 21/22 | "Der Klassiker", Sat 18:30

do.ob

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What is this? Bundesliga with new kickoff times? No silly, it’s actually the biggest and bestest 2. Bundesliga of all time. And it starts in two weeks.

Schalke, whatever happened there.

Why Bundesliga 2 is European football's real 'Super League'

As for the other Bundesliga:
Last season’s table:



Schedule:
The season kicks off on August 13th, with Gladbach vs Bayern​

List of broadcasters:

Recently appointed coaches:
Bayern: Julian Nagelsmann [Leipzig]​
Leipzig: Jesse Marsch [Salzburg]​
Dortmund: Marco Rose [Gladbach]​
Wolfsburg: Marc van Bommel [PSV 18/19]​
Frankfurt: Oliver Glasner [Wolfsburg]​
Leverkusen: Gerardo Seonae [YB Bern]​
Gladbach: Adolf Hütter [Frankfurt]​
Augsburg: Markus Weinzierl [Stuttgart 18/19]​
Cologne: Steffen Baumgart [Paderborn]​



Notable signings :
Bayern:
Dayot Upamecano [CB, €42.5m, Leipzig]​
Omar Richards [LB, free, Reading]​
Leipzig:
Andre Silva [ST, €23m, Frankfurt]​
Josko Gvardiol [CB, €18.8m, Zagreb]​
Mohamed Simakan [CB, €15m, Strasbourg]​
Brian Brobbery [ST, free, Ajax]​
Dortmund:
Gregor Kobel [GK, €15m, Stuttgart]​
Donyell Malen [ST, €30m, Eindhoven]​
Wolfsburg:
Aster Vranckx [CM, €8m, Mechelen]​
Lukas Nmecha [ST, €13m, Man City]​
Sebastiaan Bornauw [CB, €8m, Cologne]​
Luca Waldschmidt [ST, €12m, Benfica]​
Dodi Lukebakio [ST, loan, Hertha]​
Frankfurt:
Santos Borree [ST, free, River Plate]​
Jesper Lindström [AM, €7m, Bröndby]​
Jens Petter Hauge [AM, loan + option, Milan]​
Leverkusen:
Mitchell Bakker [LB, €7m, PSG]​
Odilon Kossounou [CB, €23m, Brügge]​
Piero Hincapie [CB, €6m, Talleres]​
Amine Adli [AM, €7.5m, Toulouse]​
Gladbach:
Man Utd Kone [CM, €9m, Toulouse]​
Luca Netz [LB, €4m, Hertha]​
Augsburg:
Niklas Dorsch [CM, €8m, Gent]​
Hertha:
Suat Serdar [CM, €8m, Schalke]​
K.P. Boateng [AM, free, Monza]​
Stevan Jovetic [ST, free, Monaco]​
Cologne:
Marc Uth [ST, free, Schalke]​

Official English Coverage:



Podcasts:
https://theathletic.com/podcast/163-steilcast/ [the Athletic’s podcast hosted by Raphael Honigstein and usually joined by respected journalist and writer Christoph Biermann]​

Twitter:
https://twitter.com/dw_sports [Deutsche Welle’s sports section, mostly focused on football and often with a deeper and more critical look into social and fan issues than the usual reporting]​
https://twitter.com/BundesPL [stats and tactics analysis]​
https://twitter.com/GGFN_ [news aggregator]​
https://twitter.com/cfbayern [Bild's head of football and Romano’s clickbait sidekick]​
https://twitter.com/michael_karbach [physics professor who really likes visualizing Bundesliga stats]​
https://twitter.com/cc_eckner [originates from the same tactics blog as Rene Maric, now a freelance writer]​

Some hip quotes you can seriously impress your friends with:

"Did you know Gladbach vs Dortmund is actually not considered a derby?"​
"Very few people know this, but Rene Maric actually started his career as a tactics blogger."​
"Most people don't know this, but Sebastian Hoeneß is actually the Nephew of Uli Hoeneß and his father Dieter was a famous footballer as well!"​
"I'm so excited to see Steffen Baumgart at Cologne, his Paderborn side were my favourite team to watch in 19/20."​
"Something something Streich is a philosopher."​
"Cunha/Kramaric is my favourite player."​
"Did you know that Julian Nagelsmann has always been a Bayern fan? I can't wait to see him apply his tactical flexibility to Bayern's squad!"​
"I don't understand why Hoffenheim are disliked, only four teams have been in the top division for longer."​
"I can't wait to see who Mislintat will come up with next."​
"Locals just call them "Hertha.”​
“Schmadtke and Van Bommel sure sounds explosive.”​
“Stefan Ortega is the best keeper in the league.”​
“This will finally be Hamburg’s/Hertha’s year!”​
“Keeping Dardai was such an obvious mistake!”​
“Having to go back to their basics with Marsch will be a blessing in disguise for Leipzig.”​
“I’m still heart broken over Gräfe’s retirement.”​
“What a bargain [player that PSG lost for cheap/free] turned out to be.”​
“This might be the year Weghorst gets vaccinated.”​
 
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FootballHQ

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Does Bundesliga 2 have a three month winter break or something? 34 games yet needs to start in two weeks?

Championship has 46 games and not starting until weekend of 7th August, I assume no mid week fixtures unless you really have to in germany.

Still not a bad fixture to start it off, Bremen also in of course.
 

do.ob

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Does Bundesliga 2 have a three month winter break or something? 34 games yet needs to start in two weeks?

Championship has 46 games and not starting until weekend of 7th August, I assume no mid week fixtures unless you really have to in germany.

Still not a bad fixture to start it off, Bremen also in of course.
Well yes, compared to the first division they cut the mid-week fixtures and play them out "upfront", so they still finish on the same weekend. This year especially it's a complete no-brainer to start early. It's an absurdly popular lineup of clubs, Schalke and Hamburg are easily in the top 5 biggest clubs in Germany, Bremen also draws a lot of sympathy and thus interest nation wide and then there's also clubs like Dresden, Düsseldorf, Hannover, Nuremberg, Rostock and St. Pauli that are fairly big for a 2nd division. They can probably break some viewership records in those first couple of weeks, where nothing else is on aside from preseason friendlies and maybe use the pull from the big clubs to retain some of those viewers throughout the season. Since the kickoff times are placed before the Bundesliga matches it's easy to keep following it one the side, even if you're not fully committed.

Nothing but love for you @do.ob
Thanks, but to be honest I mostly just copied from the previous thread. ;)
 
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Champ

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Gladbach have signed another player as well.

Also, Man Utd Kone :lol: :lol:
 

Rasendori

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The three managers which have my interest are Adi Hütter, Jesse Marsch, and Urs Fischer.

The game I'm most excited about is Jesse Marsch (RB Leipzig coach) v Pellegrino Matarazzo (Stuttgart coach). Just had a look at the fixture list and this will be played 20th August. Two promising American coaches (no, I'm not American) going head to head. I thoroughly enjoyed the spectacle between Jesse Marsch's Salzburg and Bayern Munich.

From a business standpoint, I hope to see Bayern Munich on large winning runs. BM made me a lot of money last season by being a constant feature in my weekly accumulator, and obviously I hope to see the same this season.
 

do.ob

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The three managers which have my interest are Adi Hütter, Jesse Marsch, and Urs Fischer.

The game I'm most excited about is Jesse Marsch (RB Leipzig coach) v Pellegrino Matarazzo (Stuttgart coach). Just had a look at the fixture list and this will be played 20th August. Two promising American coaches (no, I'm not American) going head to head. I thoroughly enjoyed the spectacle between Jesse Marsch's Salzburg and Bayern Munich.

From a business standpoint, I hope to see Bayern Munich on large winning runs. BM made me a lot of money last season by being a constant feature in my weekly accumulator, and obviously I hope to see the same this season.
Matarazzo has been playing and coaching in Germany since his early 20s. Unlike Marsch, I wouldn't consider him a product of the US system. That being said Hütter, Marsch and Fischer are indeed interesting coaches though.
At Frankfurt things were sort of straight forward and formulaic for Hütter, because of Kostic's distinct profile and huge importance to the team. It will be interesting to see how he approaches a more homogeneous squad at Gladbach.
Fischer and Union's tactical development was one of the biggest surprises of last season and seriously impressive. It will be interesting to see whether they can keep it up, especially with the poor man's CL messing with them and Kruse being part of the Olympics squad.
Marsch looked good in those "got nothing to lose" CL scenarios, but at Leipzig he will have to dominate teams consistently, a different beast entirely. But if Silva can perform anywhere close to last season's level (and one or two of their defensive signings do well early on) he could be a transformative signing for Leipzig, that sees them win their first silverware.

I think there are several more interesting picks:
Nagelsmann/Rose making the step up to Bayern/Dortmund are obvious ones.
Van Bommel as a big question mark at Wolfsburg.
Sebastian Hoeneß at Hoffenheim: their last season was disrupted by Corona outbreaks and injuries over and over. This time around he might be able to show some real promise.
Bo Svensson had some absolutely miraculous run with Mainz, but will he be the real deal or was it just an extended purple patch?
Steffen Baumgart used to play some absolutely ballsy football with Paderborn, while he himself went ballistic on the sidelines: he had by far the worst squad in the league, yet constantly tried to take the game to even the top clubs. I wouldn't be surprised at all if Cologne either had a season like Union Berlin last year or completely crashed and burned. Entertainment seems all but guaranteed though.
 
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do.ob

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Apparently U. Hoeneß was a guest at today's Doppelpass (the biggest and longest standing weekly football talk format on TV, where guests get "alcohol free" beer at 11 in the morning) and I guess he must have blamed Kroos for how the tournament went. :drool:

edit:
Here's a write up of some of the stuff Hoeneß said:
 
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unplayable

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Apparently U. Hoeneß was a guest at today's Doppelpass (the biggest and longest standing weekly football talk format on TV, where guests get "alcohol free" beer at 11 in the morning) and I guess he must have blamed Kroos for how the tournament went. :drool:
Made the popular "Querpass-Toni" comment and said that his time is up and he doesn't offer anything in modern football by taking no risks.
 

do.ob

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Made the popular "Querpass-Toni" comment and said that his time is up and he doesn't offer anything in modern football by taking no risks.
Just two Kroos cliches to pick from and he got the wrong one. Disappointing.
 

matherto

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So what the hell happened to Schalke that they got so bad?

I know they never win anything but didn’t realise they were in such dire straits?
 

Cheimoon

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"I don't understand why Hoffenheim are disliked, only four teams have been in the top division for longer."
I can't imagine how much you chuckled writing this.
Can't believe they got him for that price. Daylight Brobbery.
Just a pity his actual name is Brobbey.

Also, if you want to be picky (and I do, absolutely), pronouns in Dutch last name are capitalized if the first name isn't there. So it's 'Him and Mark van Bommel', but 'Him and Van Bommel', @do.ob.

We'll see whether any of my other contributions to this thread this year will top this level.
 

Cheimoon

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His/her silence speaks volumes.

ah, the sweet smell of victory.

i must be honest and say that I'm only barely stringing sentences together at this point due to the fact that it's coming home.
Certainly your home doesn't seem to have space for both football and proper punctuation.

Obviously, I'm not contributing much either, although the Euros final leaves me cold actually.
 

do.ob

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Also, if you want to be picky (and I do, absolutely), pronouns in Dutch last name are capitalized if the first name isn't there. So it's 'Him and Mark van Bommel', but 'Him and Van Bommel', @do.ob.
I corrected this crime against the Dutch people immediately.
 

Rektsanwalt

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They even failed in failure and fell just short of Tasmania's record. Such a pity.
yeah honestly I started hating the team so much at some point I really, really wanted it to happen but nowadays I think it's better it didn't. We lost the Müller record already so it would be unnecessary to kill more historic marks! :(
 

Cheimoon

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I corrected this crime against the Dutch people immediately.
How very humane of you!

Somewhat back on topic: eventually, I'd like to start a thread about the quality of the lower leagues in various countries. There is a lot of talk about the quality of the English Championship, but the 2. BL surely must be up there as well - especially now. I also did a quick check for stadium capacity, and the 2. and 3. BL clearly surpass the Championship and League One in that respect. None of that says much of course (although bigger stadium = more income = more money for better players etc. - especially in lower leagues where tv and advertising income isn't insanely big), but I'd be interested in that discussion across the big European leagues - provided there are people that watch lower leagues in more than one country, as otherwise we're all just making shit up. (Which certainty applies to me in this regard.)
 

Uniquim

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Hamburg & Schalke should be in the Bundesliga! Lots of cool teams in the second tier this year though.
Hopefully 1860 München will make the climb this season too.

Correct me if I'm mistaken, but with Dresden & Rostock getting promoted to 2. Bundesliga, there's 2 (formerly) East German clubs in the top tier (RB & Union), and three (Dresden, Rostock, Aue) in the second tier. That's rare.
 

do.ob

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How very humane of you!

Somewhat back on topic: eventually, I'd like to start a thread about the quality of the lower leagues in various countries. There is a lot of talk about the quality of the English Championship, but the 2. BL surely must be up there as well - especially now. I also did a quick check for stadium capacity, and the 2. and 3. BL clearly surpass the Championship and League One in that respect. None of that says much of course (although bigger stadium = more income = more money for better players etc. - especially in lower leagues where tv and advertising income isn't insanely big), but I'd be interested in that discussion across the big European leagues - provided there are people that watch lower leagues in more than one country, as otherwise we're all just making shit up. (Which certainty applies to me in this regard.)
Outside of some scouts, who really watches 2nd divisions of multiple countries comprehensively? It's already hard enough to keep track of the first divisions. And since these comparison threads are usually a shitpost fest, even when people have direct duels in European competitions as a yard stick I doubt it would be in any way constructive with nothing objective to go on.

There are certainly a lot of interesting names in this year's 2. Bundesliga, but unlike say Stuttgart or Cologne, who got relegated under somewhat unfortunate circumstances and bounced back quickly with squad that were half 1st half 2nd division quality, Schalke and Bremen are proper messes, especially financially.


This is from their pre-season friendly. They have already downsized their squad to more or less a 2nd division level.


yeah honestly I started hating the team so much at some point I really, really wanted it to happen but nowadays I think it's better it didn't. We lost the Müller record already so it would be unnecessary to kill more historic marks! :(
I guess it depends on whether Schalke can survive and find their way back into the top flight soon-ish?! Because then it just becomes another anecdote or even a legendary season, even if not for the best reasons.
 
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Cheimoon

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Outside of some scouts, who really watches 2nd divisions of multiple countries comprehensively? It's already hard enough to keep track of the first divisions. And since these comparison threads are usually a shitpost fest, even when people have direct duels in European competitions as a yard stick I doubt it would be in any way constructive with nothing objective to go on.
Yeah, that's what I said: it'd be difficult to find people that can speak to this with any kind of real knowledge - and then you still have to hope those posters actually know what they're talking about. I'm curious all the same though! :)
 

do.ob

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Is this finally the end of the road for the legendary Wendell? Bakker, Sinkgraven, Frimpong and Fosu-Mensah, they have completed their set of Dutch full backs.
 
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Acrobat7

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Is this finally the end of the road for the legendary Wendell? Bakker, Wendell, Frimpong and Fosu-Mensah, they have completed their set of Dutch fullbacks.
PSG has an option to buy him back, correct? I remember reading that yesterday.
 

do.ob

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Since this is a question that pops up like every other week, I've added https://www.dw.com/en/schalke-releg...story-of-a-royal-case-of-the-blues/a-57184763 to the OP.




The abomination of a brand „die Mannschaft“ for the German national team is most likely to be abolished as a symbol of a new beginning. What a plastic thing that has become :lol: :lol:

https://video.tagesspiegel.de/6263643165001

As long as it lives on with the fans "die Mannschaft" will never be forgotten.
 

Hansi Fick

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Apparently U. Hoeneß was a guest at today's Doppelpass (the biggest and longest standing weekly football talk format on TV, where guests get "alcohol free" beer at 11 in the morning) and I guess he must have blamed Kroos for how the tournament went. :drool:

edit:
Here's a write up of some of the stuff Hoeneß said:
When he's right, he's right.
Both Matthäus and Hoeness called it exactly like it is.
 

Hansi Fick

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I can't imagine how much you chuckled writing this.

Just a pity his actual name is Brobbey.

Also, if you want to be picky (and I do, absolutely), pronouns in Dutch last name are capitalized if the first name isn't there. So it's 'Him and Mark van Bommel', but 'Him and Van Bommel', @do.ob.

We'll see whether any of my other contributions to this thread this year will top this level.
That's actually very instructional. I was forever confused about the two different versions.
 

stefan92

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When he's right, he's right.
Both Matthäus and Hoeness called it exactly like it is.
I don't think so. Kroos works great in a 433 system, no reason to switch to a back three just for him. And statistically he made the most passes into the attacking third of the pitch, so the verdict that he does not pass forward is also wrong.

Löw has definitely chosen the wrong setup for the team, but that is not Kroos' fault, he still could have been used much more effectively then he was.
 

do.ob

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I don't think so. Kroos works great in a 433 system, no reason to switch to a back three just for him. And statistically he made the most passes into the attacking third of the pitch, so the verdict that he does not pass forward is also wrong.

Löw has definitely chosen the wrong setup for the team, but that is not Kroos' fault, he still could have been used much more effectively then he was.
While I don't think Kroos was a problem attacking wise, I'd like to know how many of those final third entries were passes to Kimmich, who was positioned absurdly high during build up and so isolated he mostly could just pass it back. The three players that follow Kroos in that stat were the CBs. When it comes to passes into the box Kroos had 5, the only player who stood out here was Kimmich with 13, which maybe underlines initial question.

I also wonder whether having Kroos and Hummels in deeper roles was a bit redundant. Most teams never really pressed enough to necessitate two long range passers.
 
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Synco

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I don't think so. Kroos works great in a 433 system, no reason to switch to a back three just for him. And statistically he made the most passes into the attacking third of the pitch, so the verdict that he does not pass forward is also wrong.

Löw has definitely chosen the wrong setup for the team, but that is not Kroos' fault, he still could have been used much more effectively then he was.
Agree on Kroos. Although I reckon the holes in the squad (no "proper" RB, DM, CF on the required level) means every formation would be problematic in some way.
 

Rajiztar

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I don't think so. Kroos works great in a 433 system, no reason to switch to a back three just for him. And statistically he made the most passes into the attacking third of the pitch, so the verdict that he does not pass forward is also wrong.

Löw has definitely chosen the wrong setup for the team, but that is not Kroos' fault, he still could have been used much more effectively then he was.
The game against Spain 6-0 simply made Joachim to go three at the back. To be honest they had some good opportunities against England too.

I felt he should have gone 3-5-2 formation in stead of 3-4-3 with Kroos goretzka and kimmich with one right sided winger in stead of kimmich.

Yes they should have created more but again Italy too didn't create much against England does not mean Italy also useless. Infact germany created more chances against England than Italy.
 

stefan92

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While I don't think Kroos was a problem attacking wise, I'd like to know how many of those final third entries were passes to Kimmich, who was positioned absurdly high during build up and so isolated he mostly could just pass it back. The three players that follow Kroos in that stat were the CBs. When it comes to passes into the box Kroos had 5, the only player who stood out here was Kimmich with 13, which maybe underlines initial question.

I also wonder whether having Kroos and Hummels in deeper roles was a bit redundant. Most teams never really pressed enough to necessitate two long range passers.
That's exactly why I think back three was a mistake. When you have a DLP in your team he needs players he can pass to. Having that extra CB behind him does decrease the attacking options. The team absolutely lacked balance as no one played as an attacking midfielder, except Havertz against England, but that 532 did than again lack power up front.