German Football 21/22 | Gladbach sign Farke

Zehner

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Release clauses and verbal promises exist.



Trophies exist. Players who are really good usually want to try and win them.
Then there would still be no need to extend until 2027. I'm confident he stays for at least another two years now.

Also it seems like our management has the objective to win a title with this current team und thus tries to hold everything together for as long as possible. A few players have already bought into that, Schick might be another one.
 

do.ob

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Then there would still be no need to extend until 2027. I'm confident he stays for at least another two years now.

Also it seems like our management has the objective to win a title with this current team und thus tries to hold everything together for as long as possible. A few players have already bought into that, Schick might be another one.
Come on guys.. I'm not saying anything crazy here. When Werner extended his contract to stay another year with Leipzig they dated it until 2023 as well, even though it was clear he'd move in 2020. The clubs wouldn't mind if their player ended up staying after all and for the players it's insurance, because if they stayed on a short contract they'd be putting several years worth of a fat salary at risk if they were to get wrecked by injuries.

And even with Schick, Leverkusen isn't a club that can just aim to win titles. They will probably give it one more shot with the Diaby/Schick/Wirtz trio and then they'll have to rebuild.
 
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Cheimoon

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Come on guys.. I'm not saying anything crazy here. When Werner extended his contract to stay another year with Leipzig they dated it until 2023 as well, even though it was clear he'd move in 2020. The clubs wouldn't mind if their player ended up staying after all and for the players it's insurance, because if they stayed on a short contract they'd be putting several years worth of a fat salary at risk if they were to get wrecked by injuries.

And even with Schick, Leverkusen isn't a club that can just aim to win titles. They will probably give it one more shot with the Diaby/Schick/Wirtz trio and then they'll have to rebuild.
For what it's worth, Ajax does this all the time, and they're completely open about it: get one more year of service out of a player and then be fully collaborative on their big transfer next year.
 

do.ob

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That would be a dramatic turn of events.
 

mazhar13

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Since then, Plettenberg sent out another Tweet stating that Favre declined that lucrative offer. He's committing himself to Gladbach and is just sorting out the staff to join him.

Given how adamant he is about coming back to Gladbach, I wonder if he'll get the chance to remain for a while and build another good Gladbach team.
 

do.ob

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The biggest game of the season just kicked off - Hertha's chance at crowning their impressive season with a title:
 

uamini

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The biggest game of the season just kicked off - Hertha's chance at crowning their impressive season with a title:
Was a good game between the two teams that were clearly a level above the competition this season.

It's not really an even playing field at that level though...Dortmund already have some international signees in their squad whereas all but one Hertha players learned how to play football in Berlin.
That kinda makes me wonder how Bayern have managed to not win that title for 18 years even though their squad is full of players they grabbed from other youth squads. I know they only started making an effort a few years ago but it's still a bit underwhelming. Finishing in 9th place in their group is pretty embarassing.
 

do.ob

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Was a good game between the two teams that were clearly a level above the competition this season.

It's not really an even playing field at that level though...Dortmund already have some international signees in their squad whereas all but one Hertha players learned how to play football in Berlin.
That kinda makes me wonder how Bayern have managed to not win that title for 18 years even though their squad is full of players they grabbed from other youth squads. I know they only started making an effort a few years ago but it's still a bit underwhelming. Finishing in 9th place in their group is pretty embarassing.
Well like you said: I thought Hertha were fairly impressive, considering it's almost exclusively local lads playing for them; whereas Dortmund were fairly disappointing, considering the club recruits diamonds in the rough from all over Germany and really Europe. This particular team should be a level above the domestic competition, yet they lost the cup final and they were cutting it pretty close today as well.


Regarding Bayern it's worth remembering that winning the u19 title doesn't necessarily make a good academy and since their second team got relegated into fourth division I assume that quite a few of the u19 players are being fielded there instead.

Since then, Plettenberg sent out another Tweet stating that Favre declined that lucrative offer. He's committing himself to Gladbach and is just sorting out the staff to join him.

Given how adamant he is about coming back to Gladbach, I wonder if he'll get the chance to remain for a while and build another good Gladbach team.
At this point Gladbach are basically a broken club: the Rose fiasco left them heart broken, the Hütter fiasco piled even more sorrow on to that, with Eberl their revered leader has left the club and they have to replace about half their starting lineup, their options heavily restricted by short contracts and the financial impacts of Covid.
Favre of course must know this, so I assume everyone expects this to be a multi-year rebuilding project, rather than some quick success story. And I assume this suits him just fine, since he didn't seem to deal well with the increased pressure and media word twisting of a club like Dortmund.
 
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HerrLeinad

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Was a good game between the two teams that were clearly a level above the competition this season.

It's not really an even playing field at that level though...Dortmund already have some international signees in their squad whereas all but one Hertha players learned how to play football in Berlin.
That kinda makes me wonder how Bayern have managed to not win that title for 18 years even though their squad is full of players they grabbed from other youth squads. I know they only started making an effort a few years ago but it's still a bit underwhelming. Finishing in 9th place in their group is pretty embarassing.
Our u19 is basically our u17/u18 and the "real" u19 is our 2nd team who already has to play against grown ups. I mean we had someone like Aydin who was just 16 years old already play with the 2nd team. So our best talents play just half a year or a year for the u19, sometimes they basically even skip that level and that heavily distorts the overall picture.
Look at Wanner, he made 2 u17 games this season and then only had games with the u19 and he probably wouldn't even have all those if he were allowed to play for the 2nd team already (he was too young to be used there). Another example is Copado (18) who already played 27 games for the 2nd team and would probably have destroyed the u19 league if he had continued there instead, not to mention Vidovic (18) who scored 21(!) goals in 30 games for the 2nd team, that's probably an easy 30-35+ goals if that same player is used in the u19.
That's been the strategy for some years now, quickly promote the promising talents so they are challenged. That can sometimes mean that we will overall look rather weak in the youth leagues (1-2 years age difference in average is MASSIVE), especially if there is a huge drain of players from the u19 to the 2nd team like in this season.
 

uamini

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Our u19 is basically our u17/u18 and the "real" u19 is our 2nd team who already has to play against grown ups. I mean we had someone like Aydin who was just 16 years old already play with the 2nd team. So our best talents play just half a year or a year for the u19, sometimes they basically even skip that level and that heavily distorts the overall picture.
Look at Wanner, he made 2 u17 games this season and then only had games with the u19 and he probably wouldn't even have all those if he were allowed to play for the 2nd team already (he was too young to be used there). Another example is Copado (18) who already played 27 games for the 2nd team and would probably have destroyed the u19 league if he had continued there instead, not to mention Vidovic (18) who scored 21(!) goals in 30 games for the 2nd team, that's probably an easy 30-35+ goals if that same player is used in the u19.
That's been the strategy for some years now, quickly promote the promising talents so they are challenged. That can sometimes mean that we will overall look rather weak in the youth leagues (1-2 years age difference in average is MASSIVE), especially if there is a huge drain of players from the u19 to the 2nd team like in this season.
I figured it would be that kind of explanation even though I'd argue that a lot of clubs use this strategy (at least to a certain extent).
My impression is still that regardless of the lack of importance of their u19 team Bayern are not entirely happy with their youth program; they seem to change their youth coaches pretty often. Next year they're adding Hertha's U19 coach for instance.
 

do.ob

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I figured it would be that kind of explanation even though I'd argue that a lot of clubs use this strategy (at least to a certain extent).
My impression is still that regardless of the lack of importance of their u19 team Bayern are not entirely happy with their youth program; they seem to change their youth coaches pretty often. Next year they're adding Hertha's U19 coach for instance.
It's not uncommon for youth coaching positions to have a high turnover. Clubs themselves often shuffle them around internally so certain coaches can stay with a particular set of players and the ones who do well naturally want to make the step into senior football.
 

do.ob

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The first round of the cup has been drawn today. For the first round the field gets split into a bottom and top half, so super juicy fixtures aren't really possible, but there are still some decent ones to look forward to:

1860 Munich vs Dortmund
Chemnitz vs Union - might be considered an East derby by some
Kaiserslautern vs Freiburg - should at least fetch a big crowd
Dresden vs Stuttgart - too
Braunschweig vs Hertha - could see an early upset if Hertha keep doing Hertha things
Lübeck vs Rostock - another derby?!


As always the cup fixture wil be the first competitive match of the season for the Bundesliga teams, while the lower division already resume playing a couple of weeks before. So the lesser sides at least have a bit of match fitness on their side to help them beat the odds.
 

uamini

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The first round of the cup has been drawn today. For the first round the field gets split into a bottom and top half, so super juicy fixtures aren't really possible, but there are still some decent ones to look forward to:

1860 Munich vs Dortmund
Chemnitz vs Union - might be considered an East derby by some
Kaiserslautern vs Freiburg - should at least fetch a big crowd
Dresden vs Stuttgart - too
Braunschweig vs Hertha - could see an early upset if Hertha keep doing Hertha things
Lübeck vs Rostock - another derby?!

As always the 2nd and 3rd division begin 2-3 weeks before Bundesliga, so the lower division teams always have a bit more match fitness to help them beat the odds.
This is literally the third time in 5 years that Braunschweig and Hertha meet in the first round..what are the odds? ^^

Magdeburg - Frankfurt sounds like a good matchup too. But my guess is 1860 vs. Dortmund will be shown on public TV.
 

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Honestly, the fact that with the Lewandowski affair another transfer saga ends with public feuding between the club and a long-serving top player has pushed me towards the Brazzo out camp. It's quite apparent the guy is not able to deal or even just communicate with players and their agents, like, at all.
He needs to be replaced. It's annoying and undignified.
 

CraftySoAndSo

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It's the hope that kills you.
Who would Gladbach go for now, i take it Rose won't go back otherwise fans would riot. I know there were rumors of Xabi Alonso last year and apparently he's left his job at Sociedad's second team but would be a risk.

But what is it with Favre and pulling out of deals at the last minute, he did it with Crystal Palace last summer as well.
 

do.ob

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Who would Gladbach go for now, i take it Rose won't go back otherwise fans would riot. I know there were rumors of Xabi Alonso last year and apparently he's left his job at Sociedad's second team but would be a risk.

But what is it with Favre and pulling out of deals at the last minute, he did it with Crystal Palace last summer as well.
Favre just seems to have a very fickle personality. It was said about his first tenure at Gladbach that Eberl had to talk him out of resigning several times. It wouldn't surprise me if he had shown genuine interest in the Gladbach job, but then came up with some doubts at the last minute. Otherwise it would be quite weird for the club to let the rumors go this far. Fans will be disappointed no matter who they sign now.

And I don't think there are any obvious choices anymore.

There are a few coaches out there you'd expect to give some stability, but not much in terms of football, like Sandro Schwarz, Pal Dardai, Markus Weinzierl, Manuel Baum, Markus Gisdol, Heiko Herrlich - they have enough experience that one could hope they will deliver a stable season, but they aren't necessarily known for nice football.

Bruno Labbadia is a bit of a wild card he surprised a lot of people at Wolfsburg, but then had a falling out with Schmadtke and after that he got Hertha'd. Löw could theoretically be a candidate, too. At least in the papers.

In the lower leagues there's Hamburg's Tim Walter, who plays the kind of football Gladbach want to see, so maybe they could be tempted to buy him out. Dortmund's u23 coach also looks promising and supposedly had an offer from Augsburg, but word was he's going to stay next season. However Gladbach are probably in too a delicate situation, to make such a gamble.

Then there's coaches like Farke or Hoeneß, who played some decent football at Hoffenheim/Norwich, but ultimately failed. I have a feeling this kind of category is likeliest, because playing decent football is always important at Gladbach. A progressive coach from Switzerland/Austria/Netherlands also wouldn't surprise me, but I'm not in a position to name candidates from there.


I hope for Gladbach's sake that they don't have to start over from square one with their search. They sacked a decent coach and now it looks like they have to settle for some second or third choice candidate - Hoeneß aside maybe.
 
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CraftySoAndSo

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Favre just seems to have a very fickle personality. It was said about his first tenure at Gladbach that Eberl had to talk him out of resigning several times. It wouldn't surprise me if he had shown genuine interest in the Gladbach job, but then came up with some doubts at the last minute. Otherwise it would be quite weird for the club to let the rumors go this far. Fans will be disappointed no matter who they sign now.

And I don't think there are any obvious choices anymore.

There are a few coaches out there you'd expect to give some stability, but not much in terms of football, like Sandro Schwarz, Pal Dardai, Markus Weinzierl, Manuel Baum, Markus Gisdol, Heiko Herrlich - they have enough experience that one could hope they will deliver a stable season, but they aren't necessarily known for nice football.

Bruno Labbadia is a bit of a wild card he surprised a lot of people at Wolfsburg, but then had a falling out with Schmadtke and after that he got Hertha'd. Löw could theoretically be a candidate, too. At least in the papers.

In the lower leagues there's Hamburg's Tim Walter, who plays the kind of football Gladbach want to see, so maybe they could be tempted to buy him out. Dortmund's u23 coach also looks promising and supposedly had an offer from Augsburg, but word was he's going to stay next season. However Gladbach are probably in too a delicate situation, to make such a gamble.

Then there's coaches like Farke or Hoeneß, who played some decent football at Hoffenheim/Norwich, but ultimately failed. I have a feeling this kind of category is likeliest, because playing decent football is always important at Gladbach. A progressive coach from Switzerland/Austria/Netherlands also wouldn't surprise me, but I'm not in a position to name candidates from there.
A lot of names there but not many that would inspire confidence i'd imagine. Funny you mention coaches from Switzerland/Austria as i was thinking they could take inspiration from Leverkusen getting Seoane who seems to have done quite well. As you say though i don't know many coaches there let alone anyone who could make the step up to the Bundesliga.
 

mazhar13

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Then there's coaches like Farke or Hoeneß, who played some decent football at Hoffenheim/Norwich, but ultimately failed. I have a feeling this kind of category is likeliest, because playing decent football is always important at Gladbach.
I forgot about Sebastian Hoeneß being available. He seems like the perfect coach to give them a good style of play. I don't think he'll bring any immediate success, but Gladbach needs to slowly build themselves back up, anyways.
 

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I forgot about Sebastian Hoeneß being available. He seems like the perfect coach to give them a good style of play. I don't think he'll bring any immediate success, but Gladbach needs to slowly build themselves back up, anyways.
Yes, Hoeneß and Walter are probably those on @do.ob ‘s very good list that should offer a good fit. I don’t know how committed Walter is to HSV though.
 

do.ob

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Since we have been talking about coaches recently:
https://www.dw.com/en/bundesliga-coaches-and-the-need-for-fresh-faces/a-61985753

I don't wholly agree with the article, for example I think it's a bit lazy to categorize everyone who ever worked for the company as an RB coach: Glasner worked there for two years, then he spent the next 10 years elsewhere, Hoeneß worked three years at Leipzig, then the next three years at Bayern, for Frank Kramer it even was only a single season when he was already in his late 40s.
And I think she's either judging too harshly or straight up wrong on the "promotion from within" point: where did Terzic come from? Hertha actually promoted Ante Covic a couple of years ago, Bo Svensson and Thomas Reis came pretty close as in they were youth coaches at their current clubs and then hired for the big job after they spent a few years in another club's youth setup.

But the bigger picture described - a trend towards tactical uniformity, a tendency to recycle coaches - doesn't feel that far off to me. Weinzierl is a good example of this, I think Tedesco as well - it's hard to argue against his cup win, but I think arguably the both of them never would have gotten their jobs if they weren't already part of Bundesliga before. Then of course there is also Gladbach's case, who paid €7m for a "BL proven" coach, while telling their club captain they didn't have the money to extend his contract - though admittedly it didn't seem like a crazy decision at the time.
 
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stefan92

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Since we have been talking about coaches recently:
https://www.dw.com/en/bundesliga-coaches-and-the-need-for-fresh-faces/a-61985753

I don't wholly agree with the article, for example I think it's a bit lazy to categorize everyone who ever worked for the company as an RB coach: Glasner worked there for two years, then he spent the next 10 years elsewhere, Hoeneß worked three years at Leipzig, then the next three years at Bayern, for Frank Kramer it even was only a single season when he was already in his late 40s.
And I think she's either judging too harshly or straight up wrong on the "promotion from within" point: where did Terzic come from? Hertha actually promoted Ante Covic a couple of years ago, Bo Svensson and Thomas Reis came pretty close as in they were youth coaches at their current clubs and then hired for the big job after they spent a few years in another club's youth setup.

But the bigger picture described - a trend towards tactical uniformity, a tendency to recycle coaches - doesn't feel that far off to me.
Aren't coaches always recycled in that way and doesn't it feel like we just got rid of a certain generation of them (with Magath and Funkel making short surprise comebacks in relegation struggles)?

And I think the article misses another point: coaches getting promoted with their club and joining the Bundesliga coaching squad that way. Ole Werner for example is a young coach who will manage his first Bundesliga season after getting Bremen promoted now.
 

do.ob

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Aren't coaches always recycled in that way and doesn't it feel like we just got rid of a certain generation of them (with Magath and Funkel making short surprise comebacks in relegation struggles)?

And I think the article misses another point: coaches getting promoted with their club and joining the Bundesliga coaching squad that way. Ole Werner for example is a young coach who will manage his first Bundesliga season after getting Bremen promoted now.
I think after Klopp's success and after Pep joined Bundesliga, maybe Löw even played a role, there was a period, where most of the coaching establishment saw their reputation evaporate very quickly:
Daum left Köln in good standing, but the only job he ever got in Bundesliga afterwards was an ill-fated rescue mission in Frankfurt.
Schaaf, Magath and Veh were respected and successful coaches in the 00 years, but suddenly became memes in record time.
Funkel used to be Bundesliga's go to coach for lower half clubs, until he suddenly was a nothing coach in the second division - though obviously he worked his way back up by getting Düsseldorf promoted.
And there are others like van Marwijk, Stevens, Labbadia (he, too, made a bit of a comeback with Wolfsburg) and Slomka, who went out of circulation very quickly, too.

I haven't checked, but I have the feeling that in the absence of "safe" choices clubs were more daring with their coaching appointments during those times. Though it's also possible that it's just my recency bias with the appointments of Tedesco, Weinzierl, Breitenreiter and possibly Sandro Schwarz.

And someone like Ole Werner wasn't picked to coach Bundesliga, he fought his way there by getting his club promoted. I think that's an important difference, because if there's actually an issue it's the strategy of established Bundesliga clubs.
 
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stefan92

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And someone like Ole Werner wasn't picked to coach Bundesliga, he fought his way there by getting his club promoted. I think that's an important difference, because if there's actually an issue it's the strategy of established Bundesliga clubs.
But now he will be in the mix, like Baumgart was signed by Köln after he got Paderborn promoted.
 

do.ob

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But now he will be in the mix, like Baumgart was signed by Köln after he got Paderborn promoted.
But it also matters at what club you make your entry, doesn't it? Stefan Leitl for example did quite alright with Fürth - relatively speaking - yet he's back to coaching in the 2nd division now. Which is why I find Hoffenheim's hiring of Breitenreiter especially worrying. Them introducing fresh faces to the league was one of the very few redeeming factors of the club. Not all of them made it, but they allowed Nagelsmann, Schreuder and Hoeneß to prove themselves with a squad that is actually built to play modern football and so it's perhaps no surprise that Schreuder ended up coaching Ajax, via winning the title in Belgium, even when his first season ended in divorce.
That's the kind of club where coaches can actually live out innovative ideas. Wheras at for example Bremen Werner will probably have to compromise at every turn. Even Baumgart got a bit lucky that things worked out so well for him, in the sense that Köln were looking like a sinking ship before he took over, but in the end weren't so broken that he couldn't turn it around.
 

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I think the years between 2010 und 2015 were quite special as the Bundesliga underwent a real tactical revolution. Many coaches who were at the top just a few years ago became outdated almost over night because of that. The innovations in terms of coaching since then were rather incremental than radical. Most German coaches essentially follow the same approach so it's not that unexpected that the league is appointing less new faces. I also think that the Rose to Dortmund, Hütter to Gladbach or Seoane to Leverkusen can't really be counted as "save bet appointments" either.

But I've noticed there are emerging a few coaches who prefer a more possession oriented style over the pressing and transition approach which is so common in Germany, namely Werner and Walter. Let's see where this leads to.
 

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But it also matters at what club you make your entry, doesn't it? Stefan Leitl for example did quite alright with Fürth - relatively speaking - yet he's back to coaching in the 2nd division now. Which is why I find Hoffenheim's hiring of Breitenreiter especially worrying. Them introducing fresh faces to the league was one of the very few redeeming factors of the club. Not all of them made it, but they allowed Nagelsmann, Schreuder and Hoeneß to prove themselves with a squad that is actually built to play modern football and so it's perhaps no surprise that Schreuder ended up coaching Ajax, via winning the title in Belgium, even when his first season ended in divorce.
That's the kind of club where coaches can actually live out innovative ideas. Wheras at for example Bremen Werner will probably have to compromise at every turn. Even Baumgart got a bit lucky that things worked out so well for him, in the sense that Köln were looking like a sinking ship before he took over, but in the end weren't so broken that he couldn't turn it around.
Hoffenheim signed a title winning coach, Breitenreiter might not be the most popular, but I actually don't have an issue with them essentially stating that they want more success than under Hoeneß.

Werner plays a style that's roughly compatible to their club philosophy and got them promoted after a disastrous and scandalous start to the season. He won't need to compromise there.

I give you that Baumgart got lucky, but I believe Leitl made his decision too early for his own good (though I am happy about it).

I wouldn't have been surprised if for example he could have gotten the Gladbach job if he was still available.
 

do.ob

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Hoffenheim signed a title winning coach, Breitenreiter might not be the most popular, but I actually don't have an issue with them essentially stating that they want more success than under Hoeneß.

Werner plays a style that's roughly compatible to their club philosophy and got them promoted after a disastrous and scandalous start to the season. He won't need to compromise there.

I give you that Baumgart got lucky, but I believe Leitl made his decision too early for his own good (though I am happy about it).

I wouldn't have been surprised if for example he could have gotten the Gladbach job if he was still available.
See, the bolded part is what actually makes me uneasy about that appointment. Breitenreiter failed at Schalke, he left Hannover with 11 points from 19 games and then it seems like no one wanted to hire him for 2.5 years. But now he's won a championship against David Wagner and suddenly he's a beacon of success? That doesn't sound like a very analytical assessment to me.

And Werner will have to compromise in the sense that in getting promoted his side shifted from top of the league in terms of individual quality to bottom of the league. That's a fact he will have to adjust his tactics to and it probably means he has to play more risk averse than he ideally wants to. Otherwise it's going to take about two losses until media pressure piles up, because they call him naive.

I think the years between 2010 und 2015 were quite special as the Bundesliga underwent a real tactical revolution. Many coaches who were at the top just a few years ago became outdated almost over night because of that. The innovations in terms of coaching since then were rather incremental than radical. Most German coaches essentially follow the same approach so it's not that unexpected that the league is appointing less new faces. I also think that the Rose to Dortmund, Hütter to Gladbach or Seoane to Leverkusen can't really be counted as "save bet appointments" either.

But I've noticed there are emerging a few coaches who prefer a more possession oriented style over the pressing and transition approach which is so common in Germany, namely Werner and Walter. Let's see where this leads to.
I share your opinion about the 2010-2015 period and the relative lack of innovation afterwards. But I think the fact that Dortmund and Gladbach actually paid €5m and €7m for their respective coaches actually proves that they were considered (relatively) safe choices by the clubs. Gladbach especially committed money they didn't really have to buy out Hütter and if Dortmund were willing to gamble they could have just stuck with Terzic.
 

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So in another episode of #JustHerthaThings:

Hertha loaned out their young striker Jessic Ngankam with a buy option to Fürth last summer. The player then unfortunately tore is ACL during pre season and was only able to play 342 minutes for his new team at the end of the season. Fortunately for the player Fürth decided to exercise their buy option anyway. However according to Kicker he must have made such immense strides in his development while recovering from his injury, that just four starts were enough to persuade Hertha to buy him back immediately, at some profit for Fürth.
 

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So in another episode of #JustHerthaThings:

Hertha loaned out their young striker Jessic Ngankam with a buy option to Fürth last summer. The player then unfortunately tore is ACL during pre season and was only able to play 342 minutes for his new team at the end of the season. Fortunately for the player Fürth decided to exercise their buy option anyway. However according to Kicker he must have made such immense strides in his development while recovering from his injury, that just four starts were enough to persuade Hertha to buy him back immediately, at some profit for Fürth.
You're slacking, there were about a dozen other Hertha-related events that you already could have made fun of in the past 3 days.
As for Ngankam, I'd argue that using the buy-back clause now isn't even a bad decision. He's a decent prospect and the clause was very low. It was the initial loan conditions that were silly. My guess is that they had much higher goals back then and that now that they're forced to rely on cheap players he's actually a good choice.
And they also acquired a Croatian international for free today but that's less funny so we won't mention that.
 

Zehner

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I share your opinion about the 2010-2015 period and the relative lack of innovation afterwards. But I think the fact that Dortmund and Gladbach actually paid €5m and €7m for their respective coaches actually proves that they were considered (relatively) safe choices by the clubs. Gladbach especially committed money they didn't really have to buy out Hütter and if Dortmund were willing to gamble they could have just stuck with Terzic.
That's true, they could've picked riskier candidates (though I'd argue the fees actually make the signings riskier) but IMO it is still different to the uninspired appointments of the 00s when it seemed like the same coaches were just moved around all the time and nobody thought of anything new. You know, all the Heckings, Slomkas, Neururers, Vehs, Stevens, etc. and you wondered "what do you hope to achieve with proven mediocrity all the time?"

In contrast, even last year many appointments were pretty exciting.
 

do.ob

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You're slacking, there were about a dozen other Hertha-related events that you already could have made fun of in the past 3 days.
Are you referring to Uremovic stating he wants to improve at Hertha :confused:
I actually made an effort to read a few tweets about Hertha's AGM after I heard that Windhorst was going to show up, but it seems to have gone relatively well!?

As for Ngankam, I'd argue that using the buy-back clause now isn't even a bad decision. He's a decent prospect and the clause was very low. It was the initial loan conditions that were silly. My guess is that they had much higher goals back then and that now that they're forced to rely on cheap players he's actually a good choice.
And they also acquired a Croatian international for free today but that's less funny so we won't mention that.
Hertha having a changed perspective explains things to a degree, but you still have to wonder how the club thought he's worth €1.5m last summer and now they think it's worth paying more than that to buy him back after he just missed almost the entire season with a catastrophic knee injury.
 

uamini

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Are you referring to Uremovic stating he wants to improve at Hertha :confused:
I actually made an effort to read a few tweets about Hertha's AGM after I heard that Windhorst was going to show up, but it seems to have gone relatively well!?
The president resigned, then several board members did the same and at some point there was a realistic chance that the board would be legally unable to sign off on any decisions until a new president is voted in several weeks from now. That has been averted but not sure if that's enough to consider the AGM a success. It also featured a bunch of members thinking their status gives them the right to hassle every speaker they don't like but I guess that happens with most clubs these days.
The DFL also published every club's balance sheet for 2020-21 and Hertha narrowly beat out Dortmund for posting the biggest loss. The budget for 2022-23 already predicts another 50M € loss and that includes a rather large revenue through player sales.
Meanwhile Mönchengladbach figured that since the Luca Netz saga worked out so well they'd grab 2 more players off Hertha's U19 squad. No idea why Hertha is unable to protect their players with proper contracts.
And signing Sandro Schwarz as the new coach is probably gonna lead to some more ridicule, even though he might be better than his reputation. I just hope he'll find a good explanation why he chose to stay in Russia despite the war.
 

do.ob

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The president resigned, then several board members did the same and at some point there was a realistic chance that the board would be legally unable to sign off on any decisions until a new president is voted in several weeks from now. That has been averted but not sure if that's enough to consider the AGM a success. It also featured a bunch of members thinking their status gives them the right to hassle every speaker they don't like but I guess that happens with most clubs these days.
The DFL also published every club's balance sheet for 2020-21 and Hertha narrowly beat out Dortmund for posting the biggest loss. The budget for 2022-23 already predicts another 50M € loss and that includes a rather large revenue through player sales.
Meanwhile Mönchengladbach figured that since the Luca Netz saga worked out so well they'd grab 2 more players off Hertha's U19 squad. No idea why Hertha is unable to protect their players with proper contracts.
And signing Sandro Schwarz as the new coach is probably gonna lead to some more ridicule, even though he might be better than his reputation. I just hope he'll find a good explanation why he chose to stay in Russia despite the war.
I can't really say much about Hertha's board members or Gegenbauer, but when he took charge of the club Hertha was more or less considered serious and then they got relegated twice within four years, transitioned to a meme and got overtaken by Union, who were dwelling in the 3rd division in 2008. So I assume it can hardly be a bad thing if he and some of his people leave the club!?

Sandro Schwarz wouldn't inspire me with confidence, but to make fun of his appointment I would have to point out a better candidate for Hertha to sign. At least they didn't extend Magath's contract. And for what it's worth Schwarz actually got Andriy Voronin to vouch for his character, in particular regarding the motives for his decision to stay in Moscow.

I think a large part of the problem with Hertha's youth players has to be the chaos in the senior team. As a talented player you have no idea whether the coach or director you sign your contract with will still be there in 6 months' time. Why would you want to stay there, if you can sign with Gladbach, who are comitted to playing positive football with young players?

Suffering heavy losses due to Corona is something a lot of clubs couldn't help, but how did Hertha manage to come up with €50m in xL after things (hopefully) returning to normal for good? And how is the club supposed to survive this? It doesn't look like the loaned out players will generate much money. Piatek in particular will probably have to sit out his contract, because I imagine no one else will pay him close to what Hertha does.
 

Zehner

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I remember that Schwarz had quite a reputation before taking over the first team of Mainz. You read stuff like "new Nagelsmann" etc. He obviously wasn't but I never really followed him and assumed he ended up being just your average pressing and transition coach. Is that accurate?
 

therealtboy

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Too easy to make this pun.
Sandro has actually done relatively well, his team was really a tough nut to crack. Hertha need a more disciplined approach. They have a great youth system that has been severely under used in place of signing the likes of Piatek and some underachieving players. They have some players that can play way better under the right structure and I fee Sandro will give them that in the interim. I know how his team plays because I've scouted a few players in Russia pre the war for Al Nasr.