German Football 21/22 | Gladbach sign Farke

do.ob

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He had a pretty unlucky match until he scored the 4 and 5:0. Lewy would have scored already after some seconds...
I assume by unlucky you mean that he choked and fumbled the ball repeatedly? The game was good in the sense Gomez was good once his team mates had realized he was more like a lamp post they had to shoot the ball at really hard, so it would bounce off of it into goal.
 

backpass

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That we discuss in wonder Timo scoring in a game says it all. He cant shot at all and while he makes great runs, 90% of them are offside. I still want him to succeed; but lets be clear that situation is going on for at least 3 years now. If you check his chance conversion he has to be at the bottom in Europe.

Everyone talks about the confidence he needs, but lets be honest , that ship has sailed! Does anyone really believe he will have his wondreus moment and start finishing like a real striker?
 

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Wouls prefer efforts to implement an UEFA wide salary cap but if that's not going to happen, abolishing 50+1 is probably inevitable. Bayern has played the Bundesliga through.
 

do.ob

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Wouls prefer efforts to implement an UEFA wide salary cap but if that's not going to happen, abolishing 50+1 is probably inevitable. Bayern has played the Bundesliga through.
Wolfsburg, Hoffenheim, Leverkusen and Leipzig are going to challenge them any minute now.
 

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this tweet came across my timeline and it made me smile:


Bayern are such an astute club
 

do.ob

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It will be interesting to see how they intend to fit him in: on paper his painful lack of pace makes him a terrible fit for Frankfurts intense pressing/second ball/counter attacking setup. The closest fit might be as a striker, since he's still terrific in tight spaces and could potentially have a couple of players around him to make runs or cover for him defensively. Or maybe Glaser intends to shake things up. Especially with Kostic's future still unclear.
 

do.ob

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Since the officials aren't idiots the transfer lists usually look good. Especially in Germany, where clubs categorically refuse to do transfers like Maguire, Wan Bissaka or Lukaku. But in the end only time will tell, as with most transfers there are plenty of risks. E.g. Mane seems to be getting Lewandowski level wages, the complete package certainly isn't cheap and the bet with him is that he works out as a striker and maintains peak form into his 30s. Gravenberch is a hopeful talent, Mazraoiu given his age and profile is a gamble, too.

All three look sensible on paper, but for all we know Mazraoui will do a Sarr, Gravenberch will find it hard to settle and it'll turn out that Nagelsmann can't do without a classical no9 after all.
 

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Can't even pull the 'they are buying all the Bundesliga players for cheap' schtik as well.
Yeah, was a pretty decent window for them already. My only hope is that with Lewandowski leaving, they still end up a worse team than last season. In general, there have been a bunch of individuals leaving the club (or still seeking to do so) on relatively bad terms so maybe it has to do with leadership or budget and there's more to come. Probably clutching at straws though.
 

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Yeah, was a pretty decent window for them already. My only hope is that with Lewandowski leaving, they still end up a worse team than last season. In general, there have been a bunch of individuals leaving the club (or still seeking to do so) on relatively bad terms so maybe it has to do with leadership or budget and there's more to come. Probably clutching at straws though.
We do not know how Lewy leaving shifts the powers in the team. We won the treble in 2013 with Mandzukic who had less than 20 goals.
 

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Since the officials aren't idiots the transfer lists usually look good. Especially in Germany, where clubs categorically refuse to do transfers like Maguire, Wan Bissaka or Lukaku. But in the end only time will tell, as with most transfers there are plenty of risks. E.g. Mane seems to be getting Lewandowski level wages, the complete package certainly isn't cheap and the bet with him is that he works out as a striker and maintains peak form into his 30s. Gravenberch is a hopeful talent, Mazraoiu given his age and profile is a gamble, too.

All three look sensible on paper, but for all we know Mazraoui will do a Sarr, Gravenberch will find it hard to settle and it'll turn out that Nagelsmann can't do without a classical no9 after all.
Mazraoui is a fantastic signing. Finally, a proper RB to mirror Phonzie, and he's been a free agent on top . Mane will be a fantastic winger at worst and he comes with the required superstar reputation to make up for Robert's departure, not only on the pitch. With him, EMCM and Zirkzee, we have a few options for the No9 spot. I'd rather go that route than wasting money on dubious names from Stuttgart and the like. If it doesn't work as intended, we can still go for a big solution next season.
We'll see about Gravenberch. I consider him a bit overhyped for what he's shown so far, but on the flipside, he was cheaper than say Nico Schulz, so I don't think his aqcuisition was a risky move. There'll always be some PL clubs willing to buy him at a high price, should he not make it with us.
Now, if we only could dodge the Laimer bullet...
 

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I mean Bayern were all in for Serginho Dest before Barcelona swooped inst the end, he hasn't faired particularly well at Barca so there is no guarantee that the scouts have gotten the right signing with Mazraoui. Him being free maybe enticed Bayern more to get him.
 

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I mean Bayern were all in for Serginho Dest before Barcelona swooped inst the end, he hasn't faired particularly well at Barca so there is no guarantee that the scouts have gotten the right signing with Mazraoui. Him being free maybe enticed Bayern more to get him.
The club never made a bid for Dest, I wouldn't call that "all-in". And frankly, I've seen both, and Mazroui is on another level compared to that headless chicken that is Dest.
 

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The club never made a bid for Dest, I wouldn't call that "all-in". And frankly, I've seen both, and Mazroui is on another level compared to that headless chicken that is Dest.
Well fair play that you've seen Mazroui, but I very clearly remember Bayern had everything agreed with Dest and it was up to him where he wanted to go. He decided to go to Barca in the end.
 

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Mazraoui is a fantastic signing. Finally, a proper RB to mirror Phonzie, and he's been a free agent on top . Mane will be a fantastic winger at worst and he comes with the required superstar reputation to make up for Robert's departure, not only on the pitch. With him, EMCM and Zirkzee, we have a few options for the No9 spot. I'd rather go that route than wasting money on dubious names from Stuttgart and the like. If it doesn't work as intended, we can still go for a big solution next season.
We'll see about Gravenberch. I consider him a bit overhyped for what he's shown so far, but on the flipside, he was cheaper than say Nico Schulz, so I don't think his aqcuisition was a risky move. There'll always be some PL clubs willing to buy him at a high price, should he not make it with us.
Now, if we only could dodge the Laimer bullet...
It is not about Mazraoui - but without a proper defensive 6 you cannot play with 2 offensive minded wingers. I actually was always fine with Pavard's performance as from our right side of the pitch most goals started and were assisted - even if the left side has the fancier players...
 

2ndTouch

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Well fair play that you've seen Mazroui, but I very clearly remember Bayern had everything agreed with Dest and it was up to him where he wanted to go. He decided to go to Barca in the end.
https://onefootball.com/de/news/ber...-angebot-fuer-sergino-dest-abgegeben-34625587

Im Gespräch mit der „BILD“ betonte Barnett, dass die Münchner sich nicht wirklich um den Youngster bemüht haben: „Barca wollte ihn mehr, und ich bin mir nicht mal sicher, wie sehr ihn Bayern überhaupt wollte.“
Besonders kurios: Laut dem Spielerberater hat der FCB nie ein konkretes Angebot für den US-amerikanischen Nationalspieler hinterlegt: „Klubs rufen ständig wegen Spielern an, was noch lange nicht heißt, dass sie wirklich interessiert sind.“ Auf die Frage ob es überhaupt ein Angebot der Bayern gab, lieferte Barnett eine klare Antwort: „Nein, deshalb ging er nach Barcelona.“
That is a quote from Dest's agent during an interview with BILD. I'll translate the last sentence: "Asked if there ever was an offer from Bayern, Barnett delivered a clear answer: No, that's why he went to Barcelona"

It is not about Mazraoui - but without a proper defensive 6 you cannot play with 2 offensive minded wingers. I actually was always fine with Pavard's performance as from our right side of the pitch most goals started and were assisted - even if the left side has the fancier players...
Still, we haven't had a genuine RB of quality in ages. If anything it'll make Gnabry even more uncomfortable, as Nagelsmann can now just go full 3-4-2-1. Even if not, we're now much more able to compensate for a Phonzie injury. Mazraoui opens up quite a few new options for us, that's why I liket his signing a lot.
 
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do.ob

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Mazraoui is a fantastic signing. Finally, a proper RB to mirror Phonzie, and he's been a free agent on top . Mane will be a fantastic winger at worst and he comes with the required superstar reputation to make up for Robert's departure, not only on the pitch. With him, EMCM and Zirkzee, we have a few options for the No9 spot. I'd rather go that route than wasting money on dubious names from Stuttgart and the like. If it doesn't work as intended, we can still go for a big solution next season.
We'll see about Gravenberch. I consider him a bit overhyped for what he's shown so far, but on the flipside, he was cheaper than say Nico Schulz, so I don't think his aqcuisition was a risky move. There'll always be some PL clubs willing to buy him at a high price, should he not make it with us.
Now, if we only could dodge the Laimer bullet...
To me they all look logical on paper, too. My point is just that reality often turns out different than expectation.
So I wouldn't call these three a master piece before their first game.
 

2ndTouch

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To me they all look logical on paper, too. My point is just that reality often turns out different than expectation.
So I wouldn't call these three a master piece before their first game.
.
Sure, I mean, it looks like this time, you've really sorted out your CB issues for good , but I won't believe in a stable Dortmund defense before I see it.
That they all actually look logical on paper and didn't cost too much is pretty master-piecey by our standards(Laimer's looming, though). Heck, we've even sold Roca for a profit. Can't remember when that happened the last time.
Since the logical on paper part also applies to all of your transfers (and sackings), I'm starting to get curious about next season. Title challenge, yay or nay?
 

do.ob

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Sure, I mean, it looks like this time, you've really sorted out your CB issues for good , but I won't believe in a stable Dortmund defense before I see it.
That they all actually look logical on paper and didn't cost too much is pretty master-piecey by our standards(Laimer's looming, though). Heck, we've even sold Roca for a profit. Can't remember when that happened the last time.
Since the logical on paper part also applies to all of your transfers (and sackings), I'm starting to get curious about next season. Title challenge, yay or nay?
I think Kehl only has gotten through half the changes he seemingly wants to make, which also means I'm not yet sure how it will all fit together next season and Terzic to me hasn't proven that he's really a top tier coach yet. So while things seem to be heading in the right direction I don't think it's the time to formulate ambitious short term goals.
 
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do.ob

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Moving to a newly promoted 2nd division team at age 30, even if it's Lautern..

Götze, Durm, Großkreutz, Özil, Mustafi, Ziele, Höwedes, Draxler, Kramer, Schürrle, perhaps Ginter - quite a few of the WC winning squad didn't have the career they might have expected afterwards.
 

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Moving to a newly promoted 2nd division team at age 30, even if it's Lautern..

Götze, Durm, Großkreutz, Özil, Mustafi, Ziele, Höwedes, Draxler, Kramer, Schürrle, perhaps Ginter - quite a few of the WC winning squad didn't have the career they might have expected afterwards.
At least Durm, Großkreutz and Zieler didn't really play a role and were just squad fillers.

Though I agree that Zieler probably didn't expect to spend so much time in the second league.

The others actually had decent careers I think, not unusual for squad players of national team?
 

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Moving to a newly promoted 2nd division team at age 30, even if it's Lautern..

Götze, Durm, Großkreutz, Özil, Mustafi, Ziele, Höwedes, Draxler, Kramer, Schürrle, perhaps Ginter - quite a few of the WC winning squad didn't have the career they might have expected afterwards.
Outside of Gotze and Ozil those players were never really that good anyway. Draxler was very talented as well although I always found him to be a bit overrated.

How do you feel about signing Haller? €31m + 4m. Most Ajax fans are not really bothered by him leaving. I think you got a decent fee.. hope he does well for you.
 

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It will be interesting to see how they intend to fit him in: on paper his painful lack of pace makes him a terrible fit for Frankfurts intense pressing/second ball/counter attacking setup. The closest fit might be as a striker, since he's still terrific in tight spaces and could potentially have a couple of players around him to make runs or cover for him defensively. Or maybe Glaser intends to shake things up. Especially with Kostic's future still unclear.
I mean, he recently excelled in a Roger Schmidt system. He had the best time of his career in Klopp's pressing and transition system. I believe every team in the world can use somebody with Götze's qualities on the ball, if he is actually fit enough to utilize them properly.
 

do.ob

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At least Durm, Großkreutz and Zieler didn't really play a role and were just squad fillers.

Though I agree that Zieler probably didn't expect to spend so much time in the second league.

The others actually had decent careers I think, not unusual for squad players of national team?
Großkreutz went from Dortmund regular to Uerdingen in record time. Höwedes got sent away at Schalke before/around 30, Özil had to join Arsenal, Schürrle got loaned to Russia and ended his career burned out at 30, Draxler went from Wirtz levels of hype to a nothing player at PSG, someone we would have forgotten about if Löw didn't love him for some reason. Ginter was as hyped as Schlotterbeck is right now and in the end rejoined Freiburg via Gladbach, he never even made it to first choice CB at Dortmund.
Kramer was quite hyped at the time, but couldn't make it at Leverkusen.
Götze surely didn't expect to be a squad player, sometimes overlooked for the likes of Rode and then going back to Dortmund, where none of the coaches really wanted or knew how to create a spot for him.

I mean, he recently excelled in a Roger Schmidt system. He had the best time of his career in Klopp's pressing and transition system. I believe every team in the world can use somebody with Götze's qualities on the ball, if he is actually fit enough to utilize them properly.
I can't really say how things worked out with Schmidt, but unless Götze has improved his speed significantly at PSV there's just not really a natural place for him in modern football. He's like an entirely different player than the one he was under Klopp. His technique is so smooth that one might think he just needs to play somehow somewhere, but when you actually think where to put him you'll quickly realize that he has some fatal flaws in every possible role.
And Frankfurt in particular pretty much always heavily relied on their player's athleticism.
 

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I can't really say how things worked out with Schmidt, but unless Götze has improved his speed significantly at PSV there's just not really a natural place for him in modern football. He's like an entirely different player than the one he was under Klopp. His technique is so smooth that one might think he just needs to play somehow somewhere, but when you actually think where to put him you'll quickly realize that he has some fatal flaws in every possible role.
And Frankfurt in particular pretty much always heavily relied on their player's athleticism.
I disagree at least a bit. While their pressing and athleticism was a strong factor in their big game wins (and therefore the EL win) it didn't help them much in many league games.

I think you overlook how bad their league season has been, especially compared to the season before. And a key factor in those tight league games, especially when Frankfurt was considered the favourite, was Amin Younes, who they didn't really replace last season.

I see the Götze signing as a (year late) replacement and upgrade for Younes, who similar to Götze isn't the fastest or most dynamic player, but has a comparable technical skillset.
 

do.ob

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I disagree at least a bit. While their pressing and athleticism was a strong factor in their big game wins (and therefore the EL win) it didn't help them much in many league games.

I think you overlook how bad their league season has been, especially compared to the season before. And a key factor in those tight league games, especially when Frankfurt was considered the favourite, was Amin Younes, who they didn't really replace last season.

I see the Götze signing as a (year late) replacement and upgrade for Younes, who similar to Götze isn't the fastest or most dynamic player, but has a comparable technical skillset.
Well yes, I can see Götze being an asset against smaller opposition, but I can't imagine that he would have signed with them if he was supposed to be a role player, if they didn't have a plan for him in the many games against big/ger oppositions, too. Especially with the CL coming up.
 

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Well yes, I can see Götze being an asset against smaller opposition, but I can't imagine that he would have signed with them if he was supposed to be a role player, if they didn't have a plan for him in the many games against big/ger oppositions, too. Especially with the CL coming up.
Well I'm sure they'll tweak their system so that he will be useful in all games. And with the club's status growing the amount of teams that will treat Frankfurt as favourite will increase and therefore the role they really need Götze for.
 

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Hinteregger retires at age 29. This happened pretty much out of nowhere, if I remember correctly he even talked about looking forward to playing in the CL with Frankfurt('s fans). He had some bad PR recently when it turned out that his local partner for some football tournament he planned to hold in his home region had far right connections, but that by itself seemed far from being a career ender, as he quickly distanced himself.

Well I'm sure they'll tweak their system so that he will be useful in all games. And with the club's status growing the amount of teams that will treat Frankfurt as favourite will increase and therefore the role they really need Götze for.
If that was easily possible he probably wouldn't have to sign for Frankfurt on "shitty" wages.
 

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If that was easily possible he probably wouldn't have to sign for Frankfurt on "shitty" wages.
Where else should he go? It's not like the top clubs in Germany are in dire need of such a player, as they all have solutions there.

Götze is interesting for the EL-level clubs in Germany and Frankfurt probably is the biggest of them at the moment and the only that recently won titles.
 

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Where else should he go? It's not like the top clubs in Germany are in dire need of such a player, as they all have solutions there.

Götze is interesting for the EL-level clubs in Germany and Frankfurt probably is the biggest of them at the moment and the only that recently won titles.
And he has the chance to still jump on the world cup squad when he performs great.
 

do.ob

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Where else should he go? It's not like the top clubs in Germany are in dire need of such a player, as they all have solutions there.

Götze is interesting for the EL-level clubs in Germany and Frankfurt probably is the biggest of them at the moment and the only that recently won titles.
My point was that if you could just compensate for his flaws by adjusting the system a little then he'd be interesting for far better clubs than Frankfurt, given his still impeccable technique, experience and resilience to mental pressure.
 

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My point was that if you could just compensate for his flaws by adjusting the system a little then he'd be interesting for far better clubs than Frankfurt, given his still impeccable technique, experience and resilience to mental pressure.
I see. I guess in that case we mostly agree as I also think that there are tradeoffs you have to accept to include Götze, and while those make sense for a club like Frankfurt, that's likely not the case for better clubs.
 

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Hinteregger retires at age 29. This happened pretty much out of nowhere, if I remember correctly he even talked about looking forward to playing in the CL with Frankfurt('s fans). He had some bad PR recently when it turned out that his local partner for some football tournament he planned to hold in his home region had far right connections, but that by itself seemed far from being a career ender, as he quickly distanced himself.
I wouldn't expect him to retire at this age without there being a dire reason behind it. As you said, it does seem unlikely that he'd retire because of those far-right connections as he has distanced himself, so there has to be something else going on behind the scenes. His statement makes it seem like he retired due to his "erratic" performances, which is weird because it wasn't like he was that bad.
 

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Hinteregger also mentioned in his book which was released a while ago (2021) that he is suffering depressions. That could have also been playing a role for this decision.

A few weeks ago he announced that he will end his career at Frankfurt, thats what he did now :D
 

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Hinteregger also mentioned in his book which was released a while ago (2021) that he is suffering depressions. That could have also been playing a role for this decision.

A few weeks ago he announced that he will end his career at Frankfurt, thats what he did now :D
His professional career at least.

Meanwhile he announced that he will play for his hometown club next season - in the fifth Austrian League, which obviously isn't a professional one.

That actually fits quite well how he has appeared in my eyes for a long time - talented player, but hasn't really got the mindset of a true professional. Maybe that was caused by his psychological issues, maybe it was the other way round, I don't know.

But in the end I think there are far worse ways to end your career than winning the EL and then essentially saying "that's it, I'm off to play with my lads now"
 

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His professional career at least.

Meanwhile he announced that he will play for his hometown club next season - in the fifth Austrian League, which obviously isn't a professional one.

That actually fits quite well how he has appeared in my eyes for a long time - talented player, but hasn't really got the mindset of a true professional. Maybe that was caused by his psychological issues, maybe it was the other way round, I don't know.

But in the end I think there are far worse ways to end your career than winning the EL and then essentially saying "that's it, I'm off to play with my lads now"
Sounds a bit like Davy Pröpper (PSV) and Tom Dumoulin (Dutch top cyclist). They both decided to stop this year, a good few years because of the usual retirement age, because of a disconnect between their level of commitment/ambition and the full-time, all-dominating commitment that being a top sporter is now. If you don't fully have the mindset for that, I can see how it grinds you down over the years, to the point where you just want to quit the pro world and do your sport casually.
 

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Werder bought Jens Stage from Kopenhagen and Oliver Burke from Sheffield. Any opinions - especially on Burke? His stats from the last seasons are not that promising to be fair.