German Football 21/22 | Hertha saved | Terzic officially announced | Kovac joins Wolfsburg | Andre Breitenreiter takes over Hoffenheim

uamini

Full Member
Joined
Jun 7, 2013
Messages
466
Location
Berlin
Supports
Herta BSC
Feels like someone designed this season to make Hertha get relegated in the cruelest way possible...this is the second time in 3 weeks that Hertha concedes a goal right at the end while Stuttgart scores in the dying moments.

I think Stuttgart would have easily won the relegation playoffs, am much less sure about Hertha.
 

B. Munich

Full Member
Joined
Mar 26, 2014
Messages
423
Location
Philippines
Supports
Bayern Munich
Somewhat rightfully
He only has to blame his own team. They had 3 match balls. First missing a 110% chance being up 1:0 at Bielefeld a few minutes before the end. Instead of being 2:0 up and saved, Hertha conceded the 1:1.
Losing against Mainz at home who had nothing to play for. And also losing against a very average Dortmund team today.

Hertha got what they deserved. Big City club my ass. Big bottlers.
 

uamini

Full Member
Joined
Jun 7, 2013
Messages
466
Location
Berlin
Supports
Herta BSC
Not sure why Bayern fans on here are so hellbent on keeping that narrative that their team did nothing wrong. That just feels like the usual hypocrisy...if any competitor (ha!) were to face off against a team that doesn't put up a fight at the end of the season they'd be livid.

And this isn't necessarily Bayern's fault either, it's just a built-in drawback of league systems. People always scoff at the idea of adding an additional playoff system but at least it would avoid the current situation where important battles get decided by the league schedule and who was lucky enough to get the right opponents at the right time.
 

Blackwidow

Full Member
Joined
Oct 8, 2011
Messages
7,072
Not sure why Bayern fans on here are so hellbent on keeping that narrative that their team did nothing wrong. That just feels like the usual hypocrisy...if any competitor (ha!) were to face off against a team that doesn't put up a fight at the end of the season they'd be livid.

And this isn't necessarily Bayern's fault either, it's just a built-in drawback of league systems. People always scoff at the idea of adding an additional playoff system but at least it would avoid the current situation where important battles get decided by the league schedule and who was lucky enough to get the right opponents at the right time.
Why shift the responsibility to another team when your own team was failing? Bayern hit 3 times the post in this match and was actually fighting for nothing. That they did not have the stability in defense is something that is part of all of the season and surely does not get better when you do not have to. xG was 2.77 to 1.96 in favour of Bayern.
 

uamini

Full Member
Joined
Jun 7, 2013
Messages
466
Location
Berlin
Supports
Herta BSC
Why shift the responsibility to another team when your own team was failing? Bayern hit 3 times the post in this match and was actually fighting for nothing. That they did not have the stability in defense is something that is part of all of the season and surely does not get better when you do not have to. xG was 2.77 to 1.96 in favour of Bayern.
Bayern just went 3 games in a row without a Bundesliga win, that hadn't happened since the Kovac-led days of 2018. And when you factor in that infamous trip to Ibiza it does feel like it's partly caused by not caring anymore and not just due to poor form.
This whole "it's your own fault" talk feels weirdly condescending coming from a club that usually steamrolls the entire league.
 

Acrobat7

Full Member
Joined
May 13, 2013
Messages
3,188
Supports
Bayern Munich
Not sure why Bayern fans on here are so hellbent on keeping that narrative that their team did nothing wrong. That just feels like the usual hypocrisy...if any competitor (ha!) were to face off against a team that doesn't put up a fight at the end of the season they'd be livid.

And this isn't necessarily Bayern's fault either, it's just a built-in drawback of league systems. People always scoff at the idea of adding an additional playoff system but at least it would avoid the current situation where important battles get decided by the league schedule and who was lucky enough to get the right opponents at the right time.
You guys drew with Bielefeld and lost to Mainz over the last three weeks. You also lost to Fürth.
Not really Bayern’s fault. At least there is the possibility of you keeping HSV in the second division, so that is something.
 

B. Munich

Full Member
Joined
Mar 26, 2014
Messages
423
Location
Philippines
Supports
Bayern Munich
Not sure why Bayern fans on here are so hellbent on keeping that narrative that their team did nothing wrong.
If Hertha had put up a fight and won their matches, you might a point. However, you guys really bottled it against Bielefeld and Mainz. And to be honest Dortmund didn't put a shift in today either. At least not more than Bayern did last week.

I understand you frustration as going into relegation play offs this way isn't ideal. On the other hand Hamburg are masters in bottling and if they don't tomorrow, they probably still will in the play offs.
You got all the chances to stay in the league.
 

do.ob

Full Member
Joined
Jun 19, 2010
Messages
12,266
Location
Germany
Supports
Borussia Dortmund
Why does it have to be one or the other? Hertha played a season worthy of 16th place, but in the end Bayern's drop off made a crucial difference. I for one was absolutely relieved when Moukoko scored, because it meant Dortmund had done their part in the relegation battle.
 

B. Munich

Full Member
Joined
Mar 26, 2014
Messages
423
Location
Philippines
Supports
Bayern Munich
Why does it have to be one or the other? Hertha played a season worthy of 16th place, but in the end Bayern's drop off made a crucial difference. I for one was absolutely relieved when Moukoko scored, because it meant Dortmund had done their part in the relegation battle.
No sure whether Dortmund put a harder shift in against Hertha then Bayern against Stuttgart. There is still xG and luck. Bayern hit the post 3 times. I don't think they did this on purpose. Dortmund was granted a soft penalty which brought them back into the match.

I don't remember the year but I do remember Dortmund once lost against Hoffenheim in their last match with a terrible performance giving Hoffenheim the chance of relegation play offs.
Don't remember they were criticized as much as Bayern who after all still got a point.
 

do.ob

Full Member
Joined
Jun 19, 2010
Messages
12,266
Location
Germany
Supports
Borussia Dortmund
No sure whether Dortmund put a harder shift in against Hertha then Bayern against Stuttgart. There is still xG and luck. Bayern hit the post 3 times. I don't think they did this on purpose. Dortmund was granted a soft penalty which brought them back into the match.

I don't remember the year but I do remember Dortmund once lost against Hoffenheim in their last match with a terrible performance giving Hoffenheim the chance of relegation play offs.
Don't remember they were criticized as much as Bayern who after all still got a point.
I don't quite get your point. Bayern quite visibly lost their edge after they won the league and they dropped points in a game you wouldn't expect them to. Dortmund messing up years ago or how Dortmund beat Hertha doesn't have anything to do with it. Bayern with their squad strength (should) have higher standards than Dortmund anyway.
 

hasanejaz88

Full Member
Joined
Dec 3, 2017
Messages
4,147
Location
Munich
Supports
Germany
Did Gladbach fire Adi Hutter? That's such a poor decision. Yes they did not have a great season but he was taking over a squad here half of his players already had their minds on leaving at the end of the season and might not have had the motivation to play well (Ginter definitely did not).

He was a talented manager at Frankfurt, to fire him after one season with a tumultumous squad is harsh. Wonder where he might go to now.
 

do.ob

Full Member
Joined
Jun 19, 2010
Messages
12,266
Location
Germany
Supports
Borussia Dortmund
Did Gladbach fire Adi Hutter? That's such a poor decision. Yes they did not have a great season but he was taking over a squad here half of his players already had their minds on leaving at the end of the season and might not have had the motivation to play well (Ginter definitely did not).

He was a talented manager at Frankfurt, to fire him after one season with a tumultumous squad is harsh. Wonder where he might go to now.
It was supposedly a mutual decision. If Hütter lost the dressing room it doesn't matter whose fault it was or how they got there, he still has to go. And if the can indeed get Favre as a replacement I can see why they'd happily take that.
 

hasanejaz88

Full Member
Joined
Dec 3, 2017
Messages
4,147
Location
Munich
Supports
Germany
It was supposedly a mutual decision. If Hütter lost the dressing room it doesn't matter whose fault it was or how they got there, he still has to go. And if the can indeed get Favre as a replacement I can see why they'd happily take that.
I mean most of the dressing room will be gone by the start of next season in any case. A lot of them have only 1 year left on their contract and I'm sure Gladbach cannot afford to let them go for free, and I don't think many of those players have an intention to sign a new contract.

I like Favre a lot, let's see if he can rejuvenate them like he did in 2011.
 

hellhunter

Full Member
Joined
Aug 5, 2011
Messages
8,346
Location
Stuttgart, Germany
Supports
Karlsruher SC
Why does it have to be one or the other? Hertha played a season worthy of 16th place, but in the end Bayern's drop off made a crucial difference. I for one was absolutely relieved when Moukoko scored, because it meant Dortmund had done their part in the relegation battle.
This is absolutely spot on. Hertha doing their job would have saved them, Bayern doing their job would have saved them.

Nontheless, I'm probably the least objective person in this, I hate Bayern with a passion, Stuttgart is the arch enemy and Karlsruhe and Hertha have a supporter's friendship going on, so please don't deter my bitterness :D
 

B. Munich

Full Member
Joined
Mar 26, 2014
Messages
423
Location
Philippines
Supports
Bayern Munich
I don't quite get your point. Bayern quite visibly lost their edge after they won the league and they dropped points in a game you wouldn't expect them to. Dortmund messing up years ago or how Dortmund beat Hertha doesn't have anything to do with it. Bayern with their squad strength (should) have higher standards than Dortmund anyway.
If you see it that way, Bayern should ein the tile with 102 points as they have the strongest squad
Why nobody blames Köln for losing against Stuttgart? They area better team this season but not even took a point of them.

Also going by squad strength Hertha should have easily won against Fürth and Bielefeld.
Instead of blaming Munich, Magath should have focused on how team own failings.

Bayern also lost several matches this season to inferior teams. So it's wasn't a one off.
The team is currently far from playing it's best football otherwise Bayern wouldn't have been eliminated from CL by an average Villarreal side.
 

do.ob

Full Member
Joined
Jun 19, 2010
Messages
12,266
Location
Germany
Supports
Borussia Dortmund
Yesterday was also the time to say good bye:
Rudi Völler retired after 17 years at Bayer:

And Michael Zorc and Marcel Schmelzer retired after spending the last 44 and 17 years at BVB.



I mean most of the dressing room will be gone by the start of next season in any case. A lot of them have only 1 year left on their contract and I'm sure Gladbach cannot afford to let them go for free, and I don't think many of those players have an intention to sign a new contract.

I like Favre a lot, let's see if he can rejuvenate them like he did in 2011.
Most of the squad leaders seem to be staying on and I imagine when everything gets as bad as they did at times this year some things get spoken that can't be taken back. Maybe not just between Hütter and the team, but also between Hütter and the management. And if they can indeed get Favre it's almost a no-branier to make this switch.
 

hasanejaz88

Full Member
Joined
Dec 3, 2017
Messages
4,147
Location
Munich
Supports
Germany
Yesterday was also the time to say good bye:
Rudi Völler retired after 17 years at Bayer:

And Michael Zorc and Marcel Schmelzer retired after spending the last 44 and 17 years at BVB.





Most of the squad leaders seem to be staying on and I imagine when everything gets as bad as they did at times this year some things get spoken that can't be taken back. Maybe not just between Hütter and the team, but also between Hütter and the management. And if they can indeed get Favre it's almost a no-branier to make this switch.
Damn Zorc is leaving? That's a massive absense. Who will replace him, Kehl?
 

do.ob

Full Member
Joined
Jun 19, 2010
Messages
12,266
Location
Germany
Supports
Borussia Dortmund
Damn Zorc is leaving? That's a massive absense. Who will replace him, Kehl?
Yes. He wanted to retire earlier actually, but stayed on for another season, because of Covid. Kehl has been built up as his successor for a few years now.
 

do.ob

Full Member
Joined
Jun 19, 2010
Messages
12,266
Location
Germany
Supports
Borussia Dortmund
After Gladbach and Hütter decided to cancel their contract and Weinzierl surprised everyone by unilaterally announcing his departure post match it now seems that Florian Kohfeldt might become the third coach to leave his post.
Büskens and Magath will probably leave too, so we could again have a wild shuffle this summer.

 
Last edited:

do.ob

Full Member
Joined
Jun 19, 2010
Messages
12,266
Location
Germany
Supports
Borussia Dortmund
Ironically Schalke might be one of the very few clubs where relegation can have been a blessing in disguise.

They got rid of Tönnies and Peter Peter Peters, they were forced to finally make an honest attempt at fixing their finances and where it seemed that fans were developing apathy or worse it now seems that everyone is as passionate as ever. Of course the real test will be the next seasons: if they fall back into old habits, get too ambitious or turn into an elevator team, it would have been all for nothing.

Oh and of course the football is still absolutely terrible. I would have thought that theyd finally start to develop a football philosophy that goes beyond Huub Stevens, but they basically rode to promotion on the backs of dead balls, crossed and Terodde.
 

verycute

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Sep 18, 2021
Messages
19
Supports
Schalke
Ironically Schalke might be one of the very few clubs where relegation can have been a blessing in disguise.

They got rid of Tönnies and Peter Peter Peters, they were forced to finally make an honest attempt at fixing their finances and where it seemed that fans were developing apathy or worse it now seems that everyone is as passionate as ever. Of course the real test will be the next seasons: if they fall back into old habits, get too ambitious or turn into an elevator team, it would have been all for nothing.

Oh and of course the football is still absolutely terrible. I would have thought that theyd finally start to develop a football philosophy that goes beyond Huub Stevens, but they basically rode to promotion on the backs of dead balls, crossed and Terodde.

I find this very disrespectful. The Football in League 2 is always different especially if you consider its a 99,9% new squad with a Trainer who wasnt known for his Offensive Spectacle.His Tactic has been "kick the ball over their defenders to Terodde he passes to Bülter/Ouwejan and then go forward" Yet they shot 71 Goals so far. and to add to that Dortmund barely played any better Football than Schalke this Year so. You rode on the backs of Haaland or Aubameyang before. Bayern rides on Lewandowski.

Strikers doing their Job man

Zalazar with a nice 58meter Goal btw :)
 

do.ob

Full Member
Joined
Jun 19, 2010
Messages
12,266
Location
Germany
Supports
Borussia Dortmund
Darmstadt might actually make me cheer for Hertha in the playoff. Why does the second divison keep torturing us by sending these teams up..
 

stefan92

Full Member
Joined
Feb 9, 2021
Messages
2,488
Supports
Hannover 96
Darmstadt might actually make me cheer for Hertha in the playoff. Why does the second divison keep torturing us by sending these teams up..
It has to be that way so that we can laugh at Hamburg.
 

do.ob

Full Member
Joined
Jun 19, 2010
Messages
12,266
Location
Germany
Supports
Borussia Dortmund
I find this very disrespectful. The Football in League 2 is always different especially if you consider its a 99,9% new squad with a Trainer who wasnt known for his Offensive Spectacle.His Tactic has been "kick the ball over their defenders to Terodde he passes to Bülter/Ouwejan and then go forward" Yet they shot 71 Goals so far. and to add to that Dortmund barely played any better Football than Schalke this Year so. You rode on the backs of Haaland or Aubameyang before. Bayern rides on Lewandowski.

Strikers doing their Job man

Zalazar with a nice 58meter Goal btw :)
Schalke have been playing absolutely atrocious football, sprinkled with some individual moments for basically as long as I remember. Sure, there were a few periods that were better than others, e.g. around Möller or Raul, but it was always because of high quality individuals.
So no, I don't think Schalke play like they are playing, because the 2nd division made them that way. :lol:

And sure, Dortmund played badly way too often this season. But the difference is that I can admit that and the club wants to do a radical rebuild, whereas at Schalke no one seems to ever be looking beyond scorelines and you're complaining about disrespect when I point that out.