German Football 21/22 | Gladbach sign Farke

do.ob

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Not to mention that they are members of Bayern, it's their right (and some would say duty) to question things that they object to and put it to a vote if necessary/possible.
 

B. Munich

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Bayern’s ultras are political. And i feel that is refreshing. They stand up against xenophobia, racism and homophobia.
And „other countries are bad as well“ is simply whataboutism.
I just admit I'm following the team but I'm not interested in ultra fan groups.

You didn't get my point. These human rights violations are because Islam.
If they are serious about it, then criticize the religion but not a particular country because the team you are supporting has a sponsor deal there. Bayern had no deal with Saudi, so nobody cares what's happening there.
That's why my point they should join am organization that fights for human rights.

Or do you really think there will be any change, if Bayern voids the contract?
 

hasanejaz88

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I think we have to differentiate between working with the government and working with organizations in countries with shaddy records. I don't think anyone will be against working with companies that are based in those countries, but when it's the government directly that influences these policies I can understand having issues.
 

B. Munich

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Not to mention that they are members of Bayern, it's their right (and some would say duty) to question things that they object to and put it to a vote if necessary/possible.
I never disputed this right. However this topic makes headlines for weeks. It's actually the only topic I heard about.

What I criticize is the way the reacted after the board didn't discuss the issue as they would have liked.
They acted like they were at game against one of Bayern's rivals. Shouting, cursing and insulting the board.
 

do.ob

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I never disputed this right. However this topic makes headlines for weeks. It's actually the only topic I heard about.

What I criticize is the way the reacted after the board didn't discuss the issue as they would have liked.
They acted like they were at game against one of Bayern's rivals. Shouting, cursing and insulting the board.
The club has banned fans over this, they have promised round tables which they have ignored, the motion in question was submitted a month in advance, yet the club ignored the petitioner to the point he had to sue them.

But it's the fans that are the problem.
 

kaiser1

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Is the DFB going to boycott the world cup in Qatar built on the back of slave labor
 

Kasper

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I just admit I'm following the team but I'm not interested in ultra fan groups.

You didn't get my point. These human rights violations are because Islam.
If they are serious about it, then criticize the religion but not a particular country because the team you are supporting has a sponsor deal there. Bayern had no deal with Saudi, so nobody cares what's happening there.
That's why my point they should join am organization that fights for human rights.

Or do you really think there will be any change, if Bayern voids the contract?
First of all, just feck off with your constant subtle islamophobic comments.
Second of all, who the feck are you to judge how apt their moral compass is? You don't know them, you have no idea what they're doing in their free time, you have no idea what they support and what not. And as shown in this thread, you didn't even have an idea that they've actively used their platform before to speak out against racism or homophobia in general - not in reference to Qatar.
All you know is that they're Bayern Munich members, and guess what - this was Bayern Munich's general assembly. Now, Bayern has a sponsorship with Qatar. They don't have a sponsorship with Saudi Arabia, they don't have a sponsorship with North Korea, they don't have a sponsorship with Qanon, so whatever "Why don't they solve World Peace" whataboutism nonsense you come up with, they can't do that with their Bayern munich membership. What they can do however, is demonstrate against the Qatar sponsorship, something they've done for four years and the club has ignored them for four years using every loophole they can find to weasle out of their responsibility. Of course they're upset about that and use the only platform they have, the assembly, to voice their anger - just for guys like you to wrap up the boards propaganda of whining about bad language. Pathetic.

Jesus, I can't believe I'm defending Bayern ultras here, I need a beer.
 

B. Munich

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First of all, just feck off with your constant subtle islamophobic comments.
Second of all, who the feck are you to judge how apt their moral compass is? You don't know them, you have no idea what they're doing in their free time, you have no idea what they support and what not. And as shown in this thread, you didn't even have an idea that they've actively used their platform before to speak out against racism or homophobia in general - not in reference to Qatar.
All you know is that they're Bayern Munich members, and guess what - this was Bayern Munich's general assembly. Now, Bayern has a sponsorship with Qatar. They don't have a sponsorship with Saudi Arabia, they don't have a sponsorship with North Korea, they don't have a sponsorship with Qanon, so whatever "Why don't they solve World Peace" whataboutism nonsense you come up with, they can't do that with their Bayern munich membership. What they can do however, is demonstrate against the Qatar sponsorship, something they've done for four years and the club has ignored them for four years using every loophole they can find to weasle out of their responsibility. Of course they're upset about that and use the only platform they have, the assembly, to voice their anger - just for guys like you to wrap up the boards propaganda of whining about bad language. Pathetic.

Jesus, I can't believe I'm defending Bayern ultras here, I need a beer.
Calm down mate! I'm am not islamophobic. I just stating facts.
Almost all of the issues they have with Qatar are more or less present in all Muslim countries. Name me one Islamic country that had liberal LGBT laws!

So your point is because Bayern has a sponsorship deal only with Qatar and they are members of Bayern Munich it's okay to criticize only one county.
Do you really believe that anything will change in Qatar, if Bayern cancels the deal?

If they are so frustrated about the club's policies then they are free to cancel their memberships to make a statement. If they are take that many, Bayern will surely eventually listen to them. However, their uncivilized behavior at the Jahreshauptversammlung doesn't help their cause and puts Bayern into a bad light.
 

Gio

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That's such a weak, cowardly stance.

Where fans can be active is when they are literally members of their clubs and can literally, actually influence the debate and decision-making on what kind of deals the club makes and where the money is coming from, like yesterday.

The club line how "dialogue and economic exchange" is what will bring positive change in terms of human rights is such tired, old, laughable, apologetic, deflective messaging that noone believed even when it was coined decades ago, probably on some Kanzler Schröder trip to China where Windhorst was tagging along.
The fans wouldn't be half as militant if the club would somehow try to prove in what way they're actually trying to tie the contract, the "economic exchange", to a push for positive development, or if the club would actually be ready to discuss the issue.

The speakers are right, it becomes exactly laughable when the club says "dialogue is better than boycott" if they're boycotting the calls to incorporate the discussion into the JHV.
First of all, just feck off with your constant subtle islamophobic comments.
Second of all, who the feck are you to judge how apt their moral compass is? You don't know them, you have no idea what they're doing in their free time, you have no idea what they support and what not. And as shown in this thread, you didn't even have an idea that they've actively used their platform before to speak out against racism or homophobia in general - not in reference to Qatar.
All you know is that they're Bayern Munich members, and guess what - this was Bayern Munich's general assembly. Now, Bayern has a sponsorship with Qatar. They don't have a sponsorship with Saudi Arabia, they don't have a sponsorship with North Korea, they don't have a sponsorship with Qanon, so whatever "Why don't they solve World Peace" whataboutism nonsense you come up with, they can't do that with their Bayern munich membership. What they can do however, is demonstrate against the Qatar sponsorship, something they've done for four years and the club has ignored them for four years using every loophole they can find to weasle out of their responsibility. Of course they're upset about that and use the only platform they have, the assembly, to voice their anger - just for guys like you to wrap up the boards propaganda of whining about bad language. Pathetic.

Jesus, I can't believe I'm defending Bayern ultras here, I need a beer.
Well said.
 

stefan92

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Wrote that before kickoff :wenger:
Yeah, just realized that now. Congrats.

At least now I am a bit happy again, as my adopted Bundesliga team of the season (Cologne) gets a massive 4-1 derby win now :lol:
 

do.ob

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Are the top flight matches only available in Germany through a subscription service?
Yes. They show the opening match of the first and second half of the season on free TV and all the Saturday evening games in the 2nd division, but that's it. For the rest you need Sky for Saturdays and DAZN for Fridays and Sundays.

Oh will you just shut up about this...
There has to be 96 + 4 joke out there, but I can't quite get it.
 

verycute

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Are the top flight matches only available in Germany through a subscription service?
Yes. And Thanks to our cartel office Sky was not allowed anymore to show every Game.Because Competition is very Healthy for the Sport...Who cares about the Viewer ? So to watch Fooball right now you need
Sky
Dazn
Amazon
Tvnow
Telekom?

im not 100% sure but it was about 4-5 subs to see everything now. So instead of paying 20-30€ like i did before i now have to pay 60+
 

do.ob

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Yes. And Thanks to our cartel office Sky was not allowed anymore to show every Game.Because Competition is very Healthy for the Sport...Who cares about the Viewer ? So to watch Fooball right now you need
Sky
Dazn
Amazon
Tvnow
Telekom?

im not 100% sure but it was about 4-5 subs to see everything now. So instead of paying 20-30€ like i did before i now have to pay 60+
As a Schalke fan you can get everything on Sky though?! Lucky you.

And T-online only does the 3rd division, TV now only Euro League.. who wants to watch that anyway..
 

verycute

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As a Schalke fan you can get everything on Sky though?! Lucky you.

And T-online only does the 3rd division, TV now only Euro League.. who wants to watch that anyway..
but i rather see my Team in the 1 Bundesliga :/
Well you dont wanna see that but there is more than just CL
 

hellhunter

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As a Schalke fan you can get everything on Sky though?! Lucky you.

And T-online only does the 3rd division, TV now only Euro League.. who wants to watch that anyway..
You haven't faced the horrors of football if you didn't have to watch your team play Großaspach on SWR.
 

do.ob

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You haven't faced the horrors of football if you didn't have to watch your team play Großaspach on SWR.
Why? Did they have Löw as a pundit?


Gladbach are playing such a weird season: they start with a draw against Bayern, then they get hammered by Leverkusen and lose against Union/Augsburg. Then they beat Dortmund and Wolfsburg, one might think they are past the worst, but then they draw Stuttgart and get beaten by Hertha. But then they beat Bayern 5-0 and get 7 points from their next three matches, but then they get stuffed 4-1 against Cologne. Freiburg, Leipzig, Frankfurt, Hoffenheim, isn't a very kind end of the year either. But it's not really like you can call out Hütter for it, is it? Even if they spend Christmas deep into the lower half of the table.
 
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Cheimoon

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Calm down mate! I'm am not islamophobic. I just stating facts.
Almost all of the issues they have with Qatar are more or less present in all Muslim countries. Name me one Islamic country that had liberal LGBT laws!

So your point is because Bayern has a sponsorship deal only with Qatar and they are members of Bayern Munich it's okay to criticize only one county.
Do you really believe that anything will change in Qatar, if Bayern cancels the deal?

If they are so frustrated about the club's policies then they are free to cancel their memberships to make a statement. If they are take that many, Bayern will surely eventually listen to them. However, their uncivilized behavior at the Jahreshauptversammlung doesn't help their cause and puts Bayern into a bad light.
I am sorry, but I don't see any sense in any of the points you have bringing up in your posts. It seems like basically you just want these fans to get out of the way of Bayern's business, so you are grasping at any straws you can to justify that. For example:
  • I don't get why you keep bringing up other Muslim countries. Do Bayern have deals with state-owned companies from other Muslim countries that the ultras are not opposing? If not, why are you bringing it up?
  • Your question about where to draw the line - what does that matter? They think this instance of sponsoring is problematic, so they address it. Once it's gone, they can figure out what's their next priority. Why would they need to have entire roadmap figured out before they can act on anything? It's like asking people that oppose racism where they will stop. Can we deal with the problem at hand first please?
  • Where is the proof that dealing with countries like Qatar and Saudi-Arabia as normal partners changes things? Have things improved in Saudi-Arabia over the past decades due to that situation? We have seen some change at a snail's pace, yes, but I don't see how you can attribute that to their international dealings in any way.
  • Your final point here about cancelling memberships is possibly the worst of all. These are fans of Bayern, they love the club, and their membership is a way that they can actually affect what happens there. It is basically a dream scenario for any fan. And they are exercising that privilege by using the forum (the AGM - annual general meeting) that is exactly intended for members to have a say in the club's business. Why would they throw that away by cancelling their membership and entirely foregoing their chance of influence? How would it help them? The only message it would send to the Bayern board is: 'See, frustrate them long enough and they'll go away, and someone less difficult will take their place'.
  • Also, how were the uncivilized at the meeting? It's their chance to speak, and the board has an obligation to respond and act on it. From what I read in this thread, however, the board hasn't for a long time, and makes clear that they look down on those fans. So the poor behaviour is rather on the board's side, and it's justified that the fans voice frustration with these proceedings.
 

stefan92

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Gladbach are playing such a weird season: they start with a draw against Bayern, then they get hammered by Leverkusen and lose against Union/Augsburg. Then they beat Dortmund and Wolfsburg, one might think they are past the worst, but then they draw Stuttgart and get beaten by Hertha. But then they beat Bayern 5-0 and get 7 points from their next three matches, but then they get stuffed 4-1 against Cologne. Freiburg, Leipzig, Frankfurt, Hoffenheim, isn't a very kind end of the year either. But it's not really like you can call out Hütter for it, is it? Even if they spend Christmas deep into the lower half of the table.
Gladbach are generally weird. They totally collapsed last season under Rose (more or less when he announced he is going to Dortmund, but that was far from the only reason, the first signs were there before that happened I think). I give Hütter credit for getting some results, especially against big teams, but this Gladbach squad has issues that go deeper than just what the manager wants if you ask me. Too many players who think they should be at better clubs and not taking smaller teams seriously enough.
 

do.ob

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Gladbach are generally weird. They totally collapsed last season under Rose (more or less when he announced he is going to Dortmund, but that was far from the only reason, the first signs were there before that happened I think). I give Hütter credit for getting some results, especially against big teams, but this Gladbach squad has issues that go deeper than just what the manager wants if you ask me. Too many players who think they should be at better clubs and not taking smaller teams seriously enough.
The uncertain future of a lot of players definitely seems to be a factor, but none of them are established superstars, you'd expect them to put in the work once the season is underway, if not for the club, then for their own future. For example towards the end of last season Neuhaus was linked with Bayern, Liverpool and Dortmund. If he keeps going like he did this season his next move will be to Wolfsburg or Leverkusen.
 

do.ob

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0:0 after 60 minutes .. looks like Bayern have finally stepped up their defensive game.
 

Hansi Fick

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I’m assuming this is a sarcastic answer to my serious question
Yeah sorry,
Covid restrictions imposed again, just 18000 fans allowed.
It differs from state to state though so other games have bigger audiences. Bavaria is overcompensating, as they've done all pandemic