German Football 22/23 | Der German Clasico, Sat 18:30 | Gladbach vs Köln, Sun 15:30 | Seoane sacked! #Xabayer Leverkusen!

do.ob

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I don't think you can decouple these things. Going on that kind of streak always has its effects on the dressing room and you often don't hear about the exact details of what's going on behind the scenes after at least one of the actors has left the club. Also, it's not like Nagelsmann has been completely unassailable so far. Still, I agree with you that Kovac should have never been appointed in the first place. Some of the stuff he said and did just seemed weirdly out of place for a Bayern manager.
What streak? The game before Augsburg they beat Barca, two games before that they beat Inter.

Rumour has it that he already lost Lewandowski and that that was a cause for why he moved to Barcelona. It's not hard to imagine other players to lose their trust in Nagelsmann as well.
Rumor was also that Lewandowski wanted to leave, because Bayern showed interest in Haaland. A lot of BS was spun during that saga, who knows what was true.
 

stefan92

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What streak? The game before Augsburg they beat Barca, two games before that they beat Inter.
But they were very lucky to beat Barca and still it was their worst result against them for some time. And the fact is that they have not won the last four league games, CL doesn't matter much for that.
 

hasanejaz88

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Lewandowski isn't that ruthless, but he is excellent in getting chances. His conversion rate is pretty standard
He scored more goals than his xG for the past few seasons though, wouldn't say Lewa isn't ruthless.
 

Okocha119

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What streak? The game before Augsburg they beat Barca, two games before that they beat Inter.
As someone pointed out earlier, not winning four BL games in a row is something that no current Bayern player has ever experienced at the club. Sure, they are winning their CL games, but that doesn't mean that poor league performances (in terms of results) don't have an effect on the team; the most prominent example, though obviously much worse, being Dortmund during the last Klopp season, where nobody could figure out why they couldn't translate their cup performances to the league. It's also important to note that the internal hierarchy changed a bit over the summer. Established players like Lewandowski left, new stars came in, others got an expensive contract extension. Now, Mane has hit a bit of a rough patch, Gnabry gets relatively few minutes and even Muller or Kimmich haven't really had their best showings these last few games. It's not the most unlikely situation for discord to develop, though it is of course hard to tell from the outside.

The next two games will probably be much easier for Bayern. I expect convincing victories against both Bayer and Dortmund. Yet, if they somehow manage to not win either, things might get ugly.
 

do.ob

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Some good news for Reus:
no fracture, the WC is not in danger, "only" three weeks out - though with Dortmund's public predictions you can usually add a couple of weeks on top

As someone pointed out earlier, not winning four BL games in a row is something that no current Bayern player has ever experienced at the club. Sure, they are winning their CL games, but that doesn't mean that poor league performances (in terms of results) don't have an effect on the team; the most prominent example, though obviously much worse, being Dortmund during the last Klopp season, where nobody could figure out why they couldn't translate their cup performances to the league. It's also important to note that the internal hierarchy changed a bit over the summer. Established players like Lewandowski left, new stars came in, others got an expensive contract extension. Now, Mane has hit a bit of a rough patch, Gnabry gets relatively few minutes and even Muller or Kimmich haven't really had their best showings these last few games. It's not the most unlikely situation for discord to develop, though it is of course hard to tell from the outside.

The next two games will probably be much easier for Bayern. I expect convincing victories against both Bayer and Dortmund. Yet, if they somehow manage to not win either, things might get ugly.
Do players just mentally fade out half their games when assessing their form? To me that sounds more like something people, who look at things through the lense of websites and tables, do. Klopp's final season was an unmitigated disaster until spring, Bayern's biggest problem is that they didn't finish their chances. They are three points away from Dortmund, Klopp was literally at the very bottom of the table.

Doing badly against Leverkusen and Dortmund would be a big problem of course, but in the end even if they don't play well against those two you can bet on Hradecky working his magic and some unfortunate but completely isolated ref call against Dortmund and they'll be back on top.
 

stefan92

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Doing badly against Leverkusen and Dortmund would be a big problem of course, but in the end even if they don't play well against those two you can bet on Hradecky working his magic and some unfortunate but completely isolated ref call against Dortmund and they'll be back on top.
Even if Bayern wins those two games and overtake Dortmund it's still possible that they are still behind Union and/or Freiburg. Bayern's current run is bad enough that beating Dortmund doesn't guarantee being on top. Not saying that Union or Freiburg are realistic title contenders, but Bayern will have some work to do to catch up and return to the top.
 

do.ob

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Even if Bayern wins those two games and overtake Dortmund it's still possible that they are still behind Union and/or Freiburg. Bayern's current run is bad enough that beating Dortmund doesn't guarantee being on top. Not saying that Union or Freiburg are realistic title contenders, but Bayern will have some work to do to catch up and return to the top.
Come on, not even Sky would consider Freiburg or Union for the title. They will drop off at some point. Union especially are outperforming xG like crazy.
 

stefan92

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Come on, not even Sky would consider Freiburg or Union for the title. They will drop off at some point. Union especially are outperforming xG like crazy.
As I said, I don't think so either. I just think that they might still be in front of Bayern even if Bayern win their next two matches.
 

Niemans

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Some good news for Reus:
no fracture, the WC is not in danger, "only" three weeks out - though with Dortmund's public predictions you can usually add a couple of weeks on top



Do players just mentally fade out half their games when assessing their form? To me that sounds more like something people, who look at things through the lense of websites and tables, do. Klopp's final season was an unmitigated disaster until spring, Bayern's biggest problem is that they didn't finish their chances. They are three points away from Dortmund, Klopp was literally at the very bottom of the table.

Doing badly against Leverkusen and Dortmund would be a big problem of course, but in the end even if they don't play well against those two you can bet on Hradecky working his magic and some unfortunate but completely isolated ref call against Dortmund and they'll be back on top.
What good news that Reus' injury was not serious.
 

do.ob

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Speaking of Bayern's upcoming games and crisis scenarios:

how much longer is Seoane going to get?



Before the season there was talk of winning titles, but if Wolfsburg somehow take points against Union they could drop into relegation territory ... with a game in Munich coming up to pile on further headaches.
Seems like the wins against Mainz and Atletico came just in time to keep things from boiling over and in that vein there's a home game against Schalke coming up, to make up for a potential Bayern loss. However if it's always back to disappointment after these games, then you're just wasting your time at some point.
 

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Rumor was also that Lewandowski wanted to leave, because Bayern showed interest in Haaland. A lot of BS was spun during that saga, who knows what was true.
He already denied that rumor. He won everything at Bayern and now he wants to prove the world he can do it at another club in another country.

If he retried at Munich there would always be the voices denying he is an all-time great, because he only played in the Bundesliga at Bayern. He is standing much increased after he continues to scoreg oals at Barcelona at the same rate as in Munich.

The last four games in the Bundesliga Bayern dominated every match, even in direct duels (Zweikämpfe). The xGoals were hugely in their favor. They just weren't clinical while their opponents were.
Dortmund being 2 points clear has just a plus 2 goal difference. Bayern plus 13.
 

stefan92

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Are Bayern the farmers???
Actually yes, it's a nickname fans of other clubs gave them a long time ago (which makes sense as a little play of words in German, the German word for "farmers" is "Bauern")
 

do.ob

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https://www.kicker.de/nagelsmann-ist-als-bayern-trainer-noch-ein-azubi-918116/artikel

Kicker's chief Bayern fan reporter released a little hit piece on Nagelsmann titled: Nagelsmann is still an apprentice as Bayern coach.

Pointing out that fortunately for him the Lewandowski drama moved the spotlight away from his lacklustre second end to last season.

Calling him - among others - responsible for Bayern's lack of a no9, because he supposedly didn't want to have Lewandowski around anymore and claimed internally that there was an alternative solution to the striker role and the whole thing wasn't an issue.

A casual: the coach needs to show his players solutions, movement, automatisms.

There's supposedly some disagreement within the club about his heavy rotations: "with such puzzling actions [substitutions] Nagelsmann is damaging his own reputation as a competent coach."

Then there's also a funny paragraph called "Nagelsmann has to focus on his internal effect.

"the coaching zone isn't a cat walk"

"show coaching doesn't reach the players"

They also criticize him for putting his girlfriend in the family vip section, since she's a Bild reporter and her employer would probably love any bit of gossip.
 

do.ob

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I guess in hindsight it could be considered a red flag when the board didn't want to commit to human rights.
 

Zehner

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Good thing 50+1 is in place to prevent evil billionaires from commercializing our lovely traditional clubs @do.ob :)
 

do.ob

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Good thing 50+1 is in place to prevent evil billionaires from commercializing our lovely traditional clubs @do.ob :)
Are you tagging me to let me know that you'd prefer it if Qatar could just outright buy a German club? Should I in turn tag you every time I have the impression that even fans and/or player have become apathetic towarsd their "special" club?
 

Zehner

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Are you tagging me to let me know that you'd prefer it if Qatar could just outright buy a German club? Should I in turn tag you every time I have the impression that even fans and/or player have become apathetic towarsd their "special" club?
I'm tagging you to show you your hypocrisy
 

Piratesoup

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I'm all for another War of the Text Walls!

For what it's worth, I have no idea what Zehner is on about.
 

uamini

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Another day, another case of testicular cancer at Hertha - this time it's Jean-Paul Boetius.
He only joined 6 weeks ago so it's probably just a coincidence he's on the same team as Richter but that's 4 cases in 4 months in the Bundesliga, a really suspicious amount.
Someone online calculated that the numbers would suggest that you can expect one Bundesliga player every 7 years to get that diagnosis..not sure how precise his results are but it's probably safe to say that this is highly unusual.
No idea what could cause this though, most likely a random and very rare cluster of cases.
 

do.ob

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This seems to be video of Fernando 'Donaldo' Carro bemoaning that journalists " many of them far left" aren't "openly discussing 50+1".

 

Acrobat7

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This seems to be video of Fernando 'Donaldo' Carro bemoaning that journalists " many of them far left" aren't "openly discussing 50+1".

From a friend of mine who held a nice position at Bertelsmann: „Carro has always been a massive idiot.“
 

do.ob

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From a friend of mine who held a nice position at Bertelsmann: „Carro has always been a massive idiot.“
After watching the video it's quite easy to believe that. :wenger:

Though I really wonder why he would phrase it like that in public? Does he see untapped marketing potential in cozying up to the AfD bubble?

Also what's his end game here? Leverkusen already struggles to compete in the current environment, if his dream comes true and 50+1 gets taken down and maybe a nice emirate or a benevolent oligarch buys in, then they are only going to get pushed further down the pecking order.
 
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do.ob

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I think we´re fine competing.
Leverkusen have made top four twice in the last six (currently closing in on seven) years. While having the more or less third to fourth highest wage bill over that period. It's debatable to call that "fine".


Another factor is that Leverkusen will "never" finish ahead of Bayern and since Dortmund made their comeback they only finished ahead of them once, when Klopp had his meltdown season.
That's 2/4 CL spots out of reach. Leipzig are simply doing the same thing as Leverkusen, but bigger and better, so they are untouchable most of the time, too. Now imagine Carro's wish comes true and there's a nice Emirate that performs somewhere between Bayern and Dortmund (or one of the proper big clubs build something that lasts)? Top three would be closed, top four as good as in most years, too. While - thanks to the CL reform - the financial gap between CL and non CL club will grow even bigger over the next years. Why is that scenario something Leverkusen's CEO actively lobbies for with Trumpist rhetoric? Is Bayer trying change the rule so they can sell the club?
 

Zehner

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Leverkusen have made top four twice in the last six (currently closing in on seven) years. While having the more or less third to fourth highest wage bill over that period. It's debatable to call that "fine".


Another factor is that Leverkusen will "never" finish ahead of Bayern and since Dortmund made their comeback they only finished ahead of them once, when Klopp had his meltdown season.
That's 2/4 CL spots out of reach. Leipzig are simply doing the same thing as Leverkusen, but bigger and better, so they are untouchable most of the time, too. Now imagine Carro's wish comes true and there's a nice Emirate that performs somewhere between Bayern and Dortmund (or one of the proper big clubs build something that lasts)? Top three would be closed, top four as good as in most years, too. While - thanks to the CL reform - the financial gap between CL and non CL club will grow even bigger over the next years. Why is that scenario something Leverkusen's CEO actively lobbies for with Trumpist rhetoric? Is Bayer trying change the rule so they can sell the club?
Probably because he's not arguing out of a Leverkusen perspective but out of a league perspective.

Also, it's nice that you always paint the worst possible scenario but there are other investors than sheikhs.

But I'm glad you finally agree that the Bundesliga is a one horse race and abandoning 50 + 1 is a way of countering that :)
 
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