German Football 22/23 | Germany vs Japan, Wed 14:00 |

do.ob

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That goalkeeping error really changed the game. Dortmund didn't really impress today but good subs.
It was a forced error. Freiburg cracked under the immense pressure forced by Terzics tactical masterclass.
 

Sphaero

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It was a forced error. Freiburg cracked under the immense pressure forced by Terzics tactical masterclass.
All jokes aside, I did not think that we would lose the game. Freiburg invested a lot of leg work in the first 70 minutes to successfully shut us down, but Brynoe-Gittens is an absolute force vs. tired legs. Far from the first time that he really impressed as an impact sub. Without Flekkens help we never win this one, though.
 

stefan92

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Dortmund had an xG of 0.07 in the second half. That's usually next to nothing and reason for massive concern. Yet they scored 3 goals in that half :lol:

And can we stop a moment to praise Moukoko for this result? Scored one, involved in both other goals. Maybe he finally gets on track as his youth record suggested :drool:
 

do.ob

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All jokes aside, I did not think that we would lose the game. Freiburg invested a lot of leg work in the first 70 minutes to successfully shut us down, but Brynoe-Gittens is an absolute force vs. tired legs. Far from the first time that he really impressed as an impact sub. Without Flekkens help we never win this one, though.
I don't think Dortmund was getting anywhere in the second half, let alone creating chances. The first goal was pure luck out of nothing and luckily it changed momentum completely.
 

Champ

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Terzic is a very astute manager.

Dortmund should never have gone for Rose, and I said that at the time of Rose's hiring.
 

Cheimoon

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This sound as if there were "no go" areas. Thing is, as a normal stadium goer you wont even come in close contact with the Ultra group. They are sticking to their blocks and you wont by chance get sold a ticket in there. Also, they usually gather outside the stadium and go in "en bloc". Ive held my season ticket since 1993 or so and i've never even first hand witnessed an Ultra vs Ultra escalation.
My own seat is in an area where many ex-Ultras or their predecessors ("Südkurve 72" people)went when they "retired" from the Kurve. In our block, we often have away supporters as some of the tickets are in open sales. Families etc. You see families there where every memember wears a jersey from a different team.
They are left alone, they can wear whatever jersey they want, they can cheer for their team all they want, no one cares. The line is drawn if someone tries to provoke, then he is told that he is in a Bayern block and should behave.
Yeah, true, I probably generalized a bit too much in my points. Ultimately...
First of all what @strongwalker said: it's not like there are huge no-go areas. And I think we need to specify what we're talking about, because I don't think anyone would disagree with the notion that we should work towards making football culture a bit less aggressive (though you can't expect that to happen over night).
However I can't agree with the "organized fans are fascists" point made in this thread.
...I think the bolded bit above is the core of it really.

And I'll leave it at that, as @stefan92 is complaining. ;) (and he's right :) )
 

Swarm

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Dortmund had an xG of 0.07 in the second half. That's usually next to nothing and reason for massive concern. Yet they scored 3 goals in that half :lol:

And can we stop a moment to praise Moukoko for this result? Scored one, involved in both other goals. Maybe he finally gets on track as his youth record suggested :drool:
Where are you getting those stats from? According to understat it would have been 0.44 in the second half. And I am not too familiar with the calculation of xG but how did Moukokos goal only have an expectancy of 0.13? He was right in front of goal. Not disputing that the win was lucky of course :wenger:
 

Zehner

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Where are you getting those stats from? According to understat it would have been 0.44 in the second half. And I am not too familiar with the calculation of xG but how did Moukokos goal only have an expectancy of 0.13? He was right in front of goal. Not disputing that the win was lucky of course :wenger:
Position of defenders and the goalie I guess. He found a very small lane fornthat shot. A few centimeters and it would've been blocked by an defender or Flekken
 

stefan92

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Where are you getting those stats from? According to understat it would have been 0.44 in the second half. And I am not too familiar with the calculation of xG but how did Moukokos goal only have an expectancy of 0.13? He was right in front of goal. Not disputing that the win was lucky of course :wenger:
I had a look at the Bundesliga.de stats for the game at half and full time.
 

shinobi

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We had no right to win this match until the fateful blunder of the Freiburg goalie. Completely changed dynamics afterwards, of course, but nothing to complain about in the "Mentalität*" department at the very least.
Six points against two of the better sides of the Bundesliga is more than I had expected before the season, I just hope we won't throw it all away against Werder next week - the results are better than the performances.


* mentality, willpower, willingness to work hard for success; something that has been missing in Dortmund sides for years, see also: "Mentalitätsproblem"
 

do.ob

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Pretty respectable start for Bielefeld so far, only two points behind a big club like KSC.
 

HerrLeinad

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I mean so far it is basically a continuation of Rose's football, bad overall play but getting a lot of point from it.
The noteworthy part is that Dortmund is doing it without Haaland.
 

stefan92

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I mean so far it is basically a continuation of Rose's football, bad overall play but getting a lot of point from it.
The noteworthy part is that Dortmund is doing it without Haaland.
Does that surprise you? He often wasn't available last season and brought as much distraction off the pitch than contribution on the pitch.

That was different in his first season there, but his last months weren't impressive at all.
 

Zehner

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Does that surprise you? He often wasn't available last season and brought as much distraction off the pitch than contribution on the pitch.

That was different in his first season there, but his last months weren't impressive at all.
Also, I don't even think that he really elevated Dortmund after his arrival. They didn't become a better team by signing him, IMO. Always thought Sancho was the more important player for them.

Similarly to Bayern with Mané instead of Lewandowski, I can imagine that they play better as a collective with a fluid front line. People blame a lot on Flekken's mistake but I thought that the subs played a huge role as well. Moukoko was more active than Modeste, Wolf much better than the again comically bad Meunier, Bynoe-Gittens was obvious and Brandt also had a few very good plays.
 

do.ob

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What's up with Bayarena looking half empty?

edit: apparently Hoffenheim only sold 17,000 tickets for their first home game, too.
 
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do.ob

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Well well well.. what a fun Saturday afternoon:

 

Kasper

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What's up with Bayarena looking half empty?

edit: apparently Hoffenheim only sold 17,000 tickets for their first home game, too.
Both clubs have had a massive Ultras problem for a while so it's not a surprise to see so many empty seats.
Word on the street is that Leverkusen ultras ate babies in front of the stadium which resulted in all the families rather staying away because it's unsafe while in Sinsheim the Hoffenheim Ultras with their facist agenda are apparently planning a coup against socialist beacon Dietmar Hopp whose currently asking his long time allies Kalle and Uli to send some of the infamous Bayern customers as support.
 

stefan92

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Both clubs have had a massive Ultras problem for a while so it's not a surprise to see so many empty seats.
Word on the street is that Leverkusen ultras ate babies in front of the stadium which resulted in all the families rather staying away because it's unsafe while in Sinsheim the Hoffenheim Ultras with their facist agenda are apparently planning a coup against socialist beacon Dietmar Hopp whose currently asking his long time allies Kalle and Uli to send some of the infamous Bayern customers as support.
Brilliant post.
 

Zehner

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Nu
Both clubs have had a massive Ultras problem for a while so it's not a surprise to see so many empty seats.
Word on the street is that Leverkusen ultras ate babies in front of the stadium which resulted in all the families rather staying away because it's unsafe while in Sinsheim the Hoffenheim Ultras with their facist agenda are apparently planning a coup against socialist beacon Dietmar Hopp whose currently asking his long time allies Kalle and Uli to send some of the infamous Bayern customers as support.
A fan of an eastern German club criticizing capitalism, speaking about eating babies and trivialising fascism?

Come on, that's too easy.
 

Kasper

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Nu

A fan of an eastern German club criticizing capitalism, speaking about eating babies and trivialising fascism?

Come on, that's too easy.
:lol: if it were easy you would've come up with something better. But I wasn't the one trivialising facism, maybe you should take a look in the mirror;)
 

Zehner

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:lol: if it were easy you would've come up with something better. But I wasn't the one trivialising facism, maybe you should take a look in the mirror;)
If you don't see the parallels between extreme ultras and fascism, I can't help you but it won't change that they are there.

If you don't believe that families stay away from football stadiums because of ultras, I can't help you but they do.

And I don't care how many Leverkusen fans are in the stadium. I'd watch football even if there were no fans in the stadium at all. And as a fan of the sport, I prefer that my club plays Champions League instead of playing.. well, I don't even know which league Rostock is playing in and am not bothered enough to google, that's how relevant I find them :)
 

Hansi Fick

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Bambi and Phonzie, we are blessed, we must have done something amazing in our former lives.
 

do.ob

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Two matches played, it's definitely time to take stock!

A few observations:
Bayern are doing their thing.

Dortmund's 6 points is quite flattering, but 4 points towards Leipzig and Leverkusen is a little cushion already when it comes to having a drama free season.

Köln have 4 points, which in my opinion is absolutely huge for them, because they seemed to be in quite a bit of trouble between all the players they lost (those two games did a lot to mitigate the psychological effect of Modeste leaving so late) and the their upcoming European obligations. They got a head start on momentum for the season and every single point might count in the end, if they get crushed by their schedule.

On the flipside we have Leipzig, who have big expectations for the season, but had to content with two unfortunate draws.

And of course Leverkusen, who are sitting at 0 points, despite their highly rated squad. Before the season we were talking about the quality of their defense, yet ironically it's been unforeseeable mistakes from Tah and Hradecky that cost them dearly. Though after two games nothing has been lost yet of course.
 

Zehner

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Two matches played, it's definitely time to take stock!

A few observations:
Bayern are doing their thing.

Dortmund's 6 points is quite flattering, but 4 points towards Leipzig and Leverkusen is a little cushion already when it comes to having a drama free season.

Köln have 4 points, which in my opinion is absolutely huge for them, because they seemed to be in quite a bit of trouble between all the players they lost (those two games did a lot to mitigate the psychological effect of Modeste leaving so late) and the their upcoming European obligations. They got a head start on momentum for the season and every single point might count in the end, if they get crushed by their schedule.

On the flipside we have Leipzig, who have big expectations for the season, but had to content with two unfortunate draws.

And of course Leverkusen, who are sitting at 0 points, despite their highly rated squad. Before the season we were talking about the quality of their defense, yet ironically it's been unforeseeable mistakes from Tah and Hradecky that cost them dearly. Though after two games nothing has been lost yet of course.
We lost a tight away game in Dortmund and then a game in which we had 2.5 to 0.4 xG or something along those lines. I don't think that's enough to panic, even though I'm still skeptical about the play style in general.

What's bad is that Paulinho is about to leave and Adli again out for around two months, leaving us with Hlozek, Diaby and half-invalid Bellarabi as wide options.

Still, my hope for an exciting season is on Dortmund. If they finally ban Meunier from the starting line up (the recent half time sub being a good sign), this could become one hell of a team under Terzic.
 

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If you don't see the parallels between extreme ultras and fascism, I can't help you but it won't change that they are there.

If you don't believe that families stay away from football stadiums because of ultras, I can't help you but they do.

And I don't care how many Leverkusen fans are in the stadium. I'd watch football even if there were no fans in the stadium at all. And as a fan of the sport, I prefer that my club plays Champions League instead of playing.. well, I don't even know which league Rostock is playing in and am not bothered enough to google, that's how relevant I find them :)
No, I'm actually happy that you can't help me to understand that the world is flat. I've had enough terrific experience of you trying to explain to me why City and Leipzigs success is not down to money but fantastic innovation and out of the box thinking to realize that I might as well read Art of the Deal or listen to Lindner interviews if I want such hollow privileged gibberish.
 

Zehner

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No, I'm actually happy that you can't help me to understand that the world is flat. I've had enough terrific experience of you trying to explain to me why City and Leipzigs success is not down to money but fantastic innovation and out of the box thinking to realize that I might as well read Art of the Deal or listen to Lindner interviews if I want such hollow privileged gibberish.
So much ignorance and hypocrisy in this post and you don't even realize it
 

do.ob

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Sky report that Eberl is going to sign with Leipzig. No fee being paid.

Probably burning whatever bridges remained with Gladbach. He used to come off as one of the most authentic people in the league, so that alone is probably a huge plus for a plastic club. On the other hand he will have to adjust his transfer strategy for Leipzig and his two years at Gladbach were absolutely terrible. So this doesn't seem as sure a thing as it would have a few years ago.
 

stefan92

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Fun times in the second league, the first chaos clubs emerge...

Hannover 96 as usual, now Martin Kind won a court case against the club to stay as CEO of the team...

And Arminia Bielefeld who just got relegated from the first division sacked their manager already after losing all of the first four league games.
 

PedroMendez

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Sky report that Eberl is going to sign with Leipzig. No fee being paid.

Probably burning whatever bridges remained with Gladbach. He used to come off as one of the most authentic people in the league, so that alone is probably a huge plus for a plastic club. On the other hand he will have to adjust his transfer strategy for Leipzig and his two years at Gladbach were absolutely terrible. So this doesn't seem as sure a thing as it would have a few years ago.
He messed up big time in his last years with Gladbach. His whole strategy collapsed and backfired. I didn't like how he quit Gladbach. I don't doubt that he was in a bad spot at the time, but he was also just not the right person to clean up his mess. He should have accepted responsibility and moved on. Starting a new stressful job at a direct competitor ~9-10 month after suffering from burn-out is not a good look. Circumventing a potential transfer fee would be the cherry on top.
 

do.ob

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He messed up big time in his last years with Gladbach. His whole strategy collapsed and backfired. I didn't like how he quit Gladbach. I don't doubt that he was in a bad spot at the time, but he was also just not the right person to clean up his mess. He should have accepted responsibility and moved on. Starting a new stressful job at a direct competitor ~9-10 month after suffering from burn-out is not a good look. Circumventing a potential transfer fee would be the cherry on top.
I think what you can blame him for is signing Rose with a release clause, the way they communicated it and the implosion that followed. As well as the general "vibe" of his last months: hiring a team manager, then getting involved with her soon after and having her quit halfway through the season as a result was hugely unprofessional, as was the way Ginter's contract extension (or lack thereof) was handled. The contract situation in the squad was another absolute catastrophe, but I think you have to see covid and the market more or less collapsing as a big mitigating factor, when judging him on that.

As for the given time span between his departure at Gladbach and possible arrival at Leipzig: I don't think we should judge him on that, mental health is a very individual thing and Leipzig must be a pretty relaxed job - relatively speaking. They have the scouting set up (half the signings are from Salzburg anyway), they have Mintzlaff, who loves chatting to the media, their fans are apathetic and the media doesn't care about them unless something big happens.
 

PedroMendez

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I think what you can blame him for is signing Rose with a release clause, the way they communicated it and the implosion that followed. As well as the general "vibe" of his last months: hiring a team manager, then getting involved with her soon after and having her quit halfway through the season as a result was hugely unprofessional, as was the way Ginter's contract extension (or lack thereof) was handled. The contract situation in the squad was another absolute catastrophe, but I think you have to see covid and the market more or less collapsing as a big mitigating factor, when judging him on that.

As for the given time span between his departure at Gladbach and possible arrival at Leipzig: I don't think we should judge him on that, mental health is a very individual thing and Leipzig must be a pretty relaxed job - relatively speaking. They have the scouting set up (half the signings are from Salzburg anyway), they have Mintzlaff, who loves chatting to the media, their fans are apathetic and the media doesn't care about them unless something big happens.
Gladbach wasn't the only team affected by Covid. It certainly fecked them, but he also kept digging.

Suffering from a burn-out and messing up big time can go hand in hand. The later can certainly exacerbate the former. Regardless of his mental state, he should have taken responsibility for the state of the club. He did a great job for a long time and got a lot of applause. Take the L and move on. Don't wiggle out of it with a teary pk.
The burn-out doesn't seem to be a problem anymore, why doesn't he go back to his CURRENT employer to do his job? He told us roughly a billion times that he loves the club.
 

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Fun times in the second league, the first chaos clubs emerge...

Hannover 96 as usual, now Martin Kind won a court case against the club to stay as CEO of the team...

And Arminia Bielefeld who just got relegated from the first division sacked their manager already after losing all of the first four league games.
A lot of people in Switzerland were surprised when Forte got the Bielefeld job. His reputation is less than stellar. He seems to be a decent motivator (usually), but not much more than that. Being sacked after four games is tough, though.
 
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