German Football 22/23 | Mislintat sacked | Bundesliga resumes January 20 |

stefan92

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Excellent play by Bremen, 1-1. First 10 minutes feel like the old days when Bremen was a true rival to Bayern, glad to see this :drool:
 

GhastlyHun

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EMCM with a weak pen, saved
 

stefan92

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Bochum leading 2:0 against Gladbach? How come?
Gladbach making stupid mistakes (misplaced pass just at the edge of the box before the 2-0, everybody thought that the 1-0 was offside, but it wasn't)
 

do.ob

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Watching the game: fans doing pyro in the home stands is a rather post Corona thing, isn't it? I always had the impression they did like 95% of that stuff during away games.

 
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do.ob

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Great goal. Maybe Leverkusen will try to play some football now.
 

do.ob

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Why is that not a red for Andrich - even if it was low-ish intensity and more stupid than brutal? He just walked up to his opponent and elbowed him in the face? Not even giving him a yellow card seems criminal.
 

stefan92

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Amazing goal by Schmitz... It was his first ever goal in the Bundesliga, it is his 137th match today.
 

do.ob

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I'm aware of the counter arguments, but it still feels a bit crazy to have Süle and Schlotterbeck in the squad, but not their team mate Hummels, who comfortably outperformed both of them playing for the same team.
 

Acrobat7

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I'm aware of the counter arguments, but it still feels a bit crazy to have Süle and Schlotterbeck in the squad, but not their team mate Hummels, who comfortably outperformed both of them playing for the same team.
That whole defense is.... yikes
 

Boavista

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I know there are plenty of versatile players in that squad, but still can't help but think the squad looks imbalanced. Maybe because there are so many nominal centre backs even if some of them are planned as right backs. Does that mean Flick is likely to play 3 at the back? With Hofmann as an option for the entire right side, or has his RB experiment been binned?

Overall it's a good team with some very talented players in most positions, yet it also seems a bit underwhelming at the same time compared to what I thought the squad would look like although i'm not sure who I'm missing. It's more a feeling that too many players offer similar profiles in the same positions, which at the same time could require other good players into worse positions due to a different formation. Central midfield is obviously Germany's strongest position, but Kimmich, Goretzka and Gundogan are only three players plus Musiala potentially who can fill a role there.

A shame Reus misses out; Werner maybe less of a miss but still a big name and probably preferable to Adeyemi at this point. Klostermann has barely played this season, so also seems an odd inclusion. Can't say I've seen Bella-Kotchap play so I don't know him. Also not sure about Hummel's exclusion when he's been so good again. Sure he's not as fast as the others, but in current form should have gotten in ahead of most of the other CBs regardless.

Having versatile players is obviously good, but makes it hard to pinpoint the strongest eleven/formation. And being able to switch between 4 or 3 at the back should be an asset, but could just as likely complicate things unnecessarily without catering to the strongest players.

Just some rambling thoughts..
 

stefan92

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I know there are plenty of versatile players in that squad, but still can't help but think the squad looks imbalanced. Maybe because there are so many nominal centre backs even if some of them are planned as right backs. Does that mean Flick is likely to play 3 at the back? With Hofmann as an option for the entire right side, or has his RB experiment been binned?

Overall it's a good team with some very talented players in most positions, yet it also seems a bit underwhelming at the same time compared to what I thought the squad would look like although i'm not sure who I'm missing. It's more a feeling that too many players offer similar profiles in the same positions, which at the same time could require other good players into worse positions due to a different formation. Central midfield is obviously Germany's strongest position, but Kimmich, Goretzka and Gundogan are only three players plus Musiala potentially who can fill a role there.

A shame Reus misses out; Werner maybe less of a miss but still a big name and probably preferable to Adeyemi at this point. Klostermann has barely played this season, so also seems an odd inclusion. Can't say I've seen Bella-Kotchap play so I don't know him. Also not sure about Hummel's exclusion when he's been so good again. Sure he's not as fast as the others, but in current form should have gotten in ahead of most of the other CBs regardless.

Having versatile players is obviously good, but makes it hard to pinpoint the strongest eleven/formation. And being able to switch between 4 or 3 at the back should be an asset, but could just as likely complicate things unnecessarily without catering to the strongest players.

Just some rambling thoughts..
I guess formation will likely be Flick's usual 4231, using an attacking LB (Günther or Raum) and for balance a conservative RB (Günter, Süle or Kehrer), I guess Hofmann would be the attacking option for that position.

In midfield don't forget Götze (who is actually listed as a midfielder, while Musiala isn't), who also definitely can play the 8 or 10 role.
 

Boavista

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I guess formation will likely be Flick's usual 4231, using an attacking LB (Günther or Raum) and for balance a conservative RB (Günter, Süle or Kehrer), I guess Hofmann would be the attacking option for that position.

In midfield don't forget Götze (who is actually listed as a midfielder, while Musiala isn't), who also definitely can play the 8 or 10 role.
Yeah 4231 is the most logical formation. I guess what I meant in my previous comment is that the squad has that strong 4231 core, but a lot of the rest of the squad gives me the impression it leans more towards a 3421 like they played against England in June.

Especially with so many defenders, some of them who are more known for their performances in a back three. Maybe also because in a 4231 you could argue you'd have so many players who'd be most suited for that 10ish role, even if they also have other potential positions, like Müller, Musiala, Götze, Brandt, and arguably even Havertz. But yeah depending on the players on the pitch there will always be some adjustments, eg them playing more as two 8s or whatever so it's a nonissue.

Obviously these things aren't that rigid, and it's good to have options either way. And to be honest the more I think about it, the less my other comments matter. It's a versatile squad and I'm pretty curious how they'll perform this time around.
 

2ndTouch

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I'm aware of the counter arguments, but it still feels a bit crazy to have Süle and Schlotterbeck in the squad, but not their team mate Hummels, who comfortably outperformed both of them playing for the same team.
They're still more compatible with Flicks Gung ho concept of Restverteidigung. Hummels just wouldn't work, it's hardly a surprise he didn't nominate him
 

do.ob

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They're still more compatible with Flicks Gung ho concept of Restverteidigung. Hummels just wouldn't work, it's hardly a surprise he didn't nominate him
His lack of pace and Flicks approach are of course the Elephant in the room, but in my opinion Hummels should at least be good enough to be the go to sub, when the team is leading and slows down the game a bit. Rüdiger aside he's comfortably the second best defender in the team, he's also the most experienced and he enjoys big games. To cast all that aside, because he's slow would be taking principles to the extreme, so I assume it also has a lot to do with Hummels being opinionated and a potential issue for the squad hierarchy.
 

Zehner

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Flick seems to think in advance. He apparently picked the players with a long term plan in mind which is probably why Wirtz was even considered for the squad to begin with. Questioned about Hummels he also mentioned that they have the future in mind.

If nothing crazy happens, Süle and Schlotterbeck will be in the team for the next 5-10 years. That's what most likely speaks against Hummels. Also, has he really been better than Schlotterbeck so far? He seems to be Terzic' no. 1 choice.
 

do.ob

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Flick seems to think in advance. He apparently picked the players with a long term plan in mind which is probably why Wirtz was even considered for the squad to begin with. Questioned about Hummels he also mentioned that they have the future in mind.

If nothing crazy happens, Süle and Schlotterbeck will be in the team for the next 5-10 years. That's what most likely speaks against Hummels. Also, has he really been better than Schlotterbeck so far? He seems to be Terzic' no. 1 choice.
Let me put it this way:
In 277 minutes without Hummels Dortmund conceded 10 goals.
In 983 minutes with Hummels Dortmund conceded 7 goals.
 

2ndTouch

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His lack of pace and Flicks approach are of course the Elephant in the room, but in my opinion Hummels should at least be good enough to be the go to sub, when the team is leading and slows down the game a bit. Rüdiger aside he's comfortably the second best defender in the team, he's also the most experienced and he enjoys big games. To cast all that aside, because he's slow would be taking principles to the extreme, so I assume it also has a lot to do with Hummels being opinionated and a potential issue for the squad hierarchy.
Sure it has, and it's somewhat understandable. Not only is Mats highly opinionated, he also has a very high opinion about himself. Can he be sat on the bench without going into sulk mode sooner or later? Not sure. So, he doesn't fit into the overall tactical approach, he's not someone for the future, and there's a certain likelihood of him not being able to truly accept a role as a squad player. That's just not very enticing from Flick's POV.
 

kaiser1

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I know there are plenty of versatile players in that squad, but still can't help but think the squad looks imbalanced. Maybe because there are so many nominal centre backs even if some of them are planned as right backs. Does that mean Flick is likely to play 3 at the back? With Hofmann as an option for the entire right side, or has his RB experiment been binned?
In my opinion tournaments especially knockouts are more about defensive solidity. Even if its boring. You need at least one conservative FB in the form of a CB playing FB
Last world cup winner France played 4 CB (Pavard Hernandez Varane and Umititi)
The successful recent German teams in major tournaments I remember always have a CB playing as a Full Back.
2014 Back 4 was Lahm Boateng Hummels Howedes (Sometimes Lahm moved to midfield and the team played 4 CBs).
2012 was Boateng Hummels Badstuber Lahm.
2010 was Lahm Friedrich Per Boateng/Badstuber
2008 was Friedrich Per Metzelder Lahm.
2006 Friedrich Per Metzelder Lahm

They all made semi finals and you will see that 3 of the defenders were CBs in their clubs
 
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