German football is turd

Vanrouge

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Yeah, I don't get that either. It's boring for people that only check league standings and are disappointed that there is no drama when they check after every round of matches what happened at the top (spoiler: it's stil Bayern). But individual games aren't boring to watch, and there is plenty of movement below the top - there is no established top 6, for example (outside Bayern and Dortmund). I don't know why people that don't particularly care who wins or loses in the Bundesliga would find it turd.
Exactly, yes. That's another way of putting it. Surely football fans enjoy... watching football?
 

Vidyoyo

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Bundesliga fans make it sound as if football is intended to be watched in stadiums, not on my 80 inch TV with Sonos soundbar blaring the latest argument between G Nev and Red Cazza.

You're living in a difference world over there.
 

Cheimoon

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Bundesliga fans make it sound as if football is intended to be watched in stadiums, not on my 80 inch TV with Sonos soundbar blaring the latest argument between G Nev and Red Cazza.

You're living in a difference world over there.
You want to blare arguments at that pitch? Doesn't it damage your windows?

Yes, this is written with the Squires cartoon in mind.
 

B. Munich

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Also I don't think scrapping the 50 +1 rule will change that much now. It's too late for it anyway as there are already too many sponsored clubs in Europe.

Let's assume 50+1 is scrapped and there will be a handful investors like at Man City or now Newcastle. I don't think clubs like HSV, Schalke, Kaiserlautern, Nürnberg or Bremen would suddenly rise from the ashes and challenge Bayern. They got relegated not because of 50+1 but because of serious miss management. With 100 million Euro a season more to spend they might not have gotten relegated but i seriously doubt they would be anywhere near Bayerns level. Bayern earnt their money and didn't get it from dubious oligarchs or oil states. Bayern is very well run and the money is invested wisely. I doubt Bayern will ever get into a position Barcelona is into now.

On the other side billionaire and oil state owners will only inflate the already ridiculous high transfer fees and salaries further. There are only a limited number of top players in world football. Now we have around 8 to 10 clubs competing on the top level, then there might be 30 or even 50 clubs with money to burn. This will only lead to further inflated costs and the football won't get any better.

There has to be other ways to approach this issue. The ESL, who we all don't really want, is one way. Another way could be salary caps, requirements to have a minimum number of homegrown players in the starting eleven and the cutout of greedy middle men like Raiola who add zero value to the game and only suck the clubs dry.
 

TwoSheds

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Timo Werner is another example of how rubbish English football is as they couldn´t get a tune out of him.
Nah he's just half the player Dennis is. And yet somehow one of the best strikers in Germany. ;)
 

Blackwidow

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I'm not in favor of the 50+1 rule to go away. I'm just tried to make a point that as long as finances in the Bundesliga stay as they are, Dortmund and all the other clubs won't be able to keep their best players, because some people suggested that they aren't even trying anymore. The truth is they might try all they want, but they are economically not able to and won't be as long as things remain as they are right now.
The 50+1 rule might be a handicap for people taking over a club in private ownership - but it is not a handicap to invest into a club when you see that the club is managed very well. But the Bundesliga just is not as attractive to invest into as the EPL were just much more money is in and where there is much more acceptance for foreign investment. An investment from a Saudi investor in a German club like at Newcastle would cause a mega shitstorm of dimensions you do not want to imagine... - the scenes would be very different from the ones you have seen in Newcastle... You just have to see how many fans still see Leipzig, Hoffenheim or the company clubs like Bayer or Volkswagen - and how much they protest in the stadium - or the Qatar discussions at Bayern...

Most clubs in the Bundesliga know that players will not stay but see them as an investment for further sales, too - even clubs like Dortmund or Leipzig. If players get too big for them they have to sell them - and no, Bayern is not the first one on the list but the other big clubs in Europe. There is only the German players and some french players that e.g. see the french contingent.

I think that the problem of the clubs behind Bayern is not Bayern first but the other big clubs in Europe. Yes, sometimes a player wanders to Bayern - but usually never when it is a bidding war with other big European clubs. And they might have right now a good take on french players because of the french players they already have in the team - and the french national team plays them in the starting formation.

No - it is not that it does not matter who plays for Bayern or who the manager is. If you look into the squad you will see that the main players since Pep with the most time were Neuer, Müller, Lewandowski, Kimmich - and before they left Alaba and Thiago. And what Flick did when he took over Bayern was to get Müller, Kimmich and Alaba from jobs on the wings into the vertical axis of the team (again) and give them the command. When he took one of them out Bayern had problems. I remember a Cup match against Hoffenheim when Flick substituted Müller and Lewy at 4:1 in minute 82... At the end Bayern luckily went through with a 4:3 with Hoffenheim having chances for the 4:4 short before the end. After that Flick was even more careful with substitutions. Lewy's killer instincts, Müller's commanding and cheerleader skill, Kimmich's passing and workrate and Neuer's sweeper keeping are probably the main reason for Bayern's last seasons. And with Coman, Gnabry, Sane and Musiala we have 4 interchangeable wingers that took over from Ribery and Robben of a high quality.
 

Charles Miller

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Mike Tyson was knocking people out so easily n the 80s, that i remember after some fight the crowd started booing and chanting: "we want Sugar Ray, not this b.s."
 

marktan

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Why don't they make Bayern play with a points handicap from next season?

Or the more points you win the league by, the bigger your handicap next season. Or based on average of the last 3 seasons.

Or the more you spend vs the league average, or the average value of your squad, the bigger the handicap.

Not a super serious suggestion bit it would make the league more competitive which would mean more eyeballs, and ultimately more money. A bit like the Americans and their draft picks. I know Serie A has foreign ownership and more owner investment but I find myself watching it more often because the top teams are quite even now and there's a lot of well known players on different teams. I like 50+1 in principle but they need creative solutions because Bayern is so far ahead and will be for a long time.
 

Tyrion

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If watching teams win trophies is your reason for watching football, that's a valid criticism.
If watching teams win trophies is your main reason for watching football, then 90% of football clubs will fail each year. Boiling it all down to trophies does seem depressing and elitist.
 

Tyrion

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It’s funny because Pep has turned the Premier League into a one team league but everyone acts like the English league is competitive. They could easily win the league 5/6 times in a row at this point. They have no striker and storming the league again.
To be fair, if Dortmund won the league two years ago and Leipzig were European champions, then the comparison would be fair.
 

Lay

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What a boring league. A decade since there was a champion not named Bayern.

Their closest competitor is just a feeder club for other clubs. Nurturing young talent and selling them before they hit their peak. Good financial model, sure. But it seems madness when it’s the second best club in a huge footballing country.
 

Vanrouge

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If watching teams win trophies is your main reason for watching football, then 90% of football clubs will fail each year. Boiling it all down to trophies does seem depressing and elitist.
I thought I was clear that watching teams win trophies is far from my main reason for watching football. Or maybe you're using "you" in a more generic sense? I think you're agreeing with me, but I'm not entirely sure.
 

Tyrion

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I thought I was clear that watching teams win trophies is far from my main reason for watching football. Or maybe you're using "you" in a more generic sense? I think you're agreeing with me, but I'm not entirely sure.
Sorry. I was using you in a general sense.
 

Vanrouge

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I don’t get it. If it’s too boring, why watch it (as unlikely as it is that most posters do) or comment on it. Just leave it be. It’s like complaining one room in the house is too hot yet staying in that room just constantly complaining.
I'll never for the life of me understand why so many people focus on things they don't like. I mean, I don't like professional wrestling and yet (aside from using it here as an example) I don't think I've ever expressed that dislike publicly in all my years on earth. It's boring. To paraphrase the Tragically Hip, "No one's interested in something you didn't like."
 

B. Munich

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Actually the title is very misleading anyway. Shouldn't it be changed at least to "Bundesliga is turd"?
Other divisions are very competitive and while the German national team didn't cover itself with glory in the last 2 tournaments, it's far from being turd.

Or if, how should we call English football then?
 

Luffy

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Yes, but which country is fust, and which one is secun?
 

stefan92

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BDL won't like this quote from one of their own!

His observation is clearly true that the PL is better. Looking at the money difference everything else would be ridiculous failure of the PL clubs.

That said I don't believe him that this surprised him. This is just about shielding his team from criticism for their poor performances. Fair play to do that, but don't take this as a neutral statement.
 

troylocker

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That is an anecdote but not evidence.
But yes, Diouf once scored 12 goals in a Bundesliga season.

Demarai Gray has a way better scoring record in the PL than he had in the Bundesliga. Pukki is more prolific as well. What does that proof? Exactly: nothing
Another funny thing about the Diouf example is that he went directly from an 8 goals season for Hannover to an 11 PL goals season for Stoke. Still tied record for most PL goals in a season in the PL for Stoke.....
 

Blackwidow

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BDL won't like this quote from one of their own!

He is a coach of an EPL club... especially one that struggles to break down teams. If I listen to the press conferences of the German coaches - they always talk up every opponent - even if it is the teams on the relegation ranks. That is exactly that what he makes with this.

German teams are different - yes. Even the lowest teams can beat the big ones on their days. But the tactics just aren't the same. A lot more active pressing.
 

DutchCruijff

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My estimation of Bundesliga has PLUMMETED since seeing Havertz, Sancho, Werner and Thiago struggle in the PL or struggle to reach their lofty heights as they did in the Bundesliga.

I think we need to think twice before purchasing Bundesliga prospects again.

Hoffenheim and SC Freiburg are 3rd and 4th, respectively. Going through their XIs? Sorry, can't take that league seriously.
 

Blackwidow

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My estimation of Bundesliga has PLUMMETED since seeing Havertz, Sancho, Werner and Thiago struggle in the PL or struggle to reach their lofty heights as they did in the Bundesliga.

I think we need to think twice before purchasing Bundesliga prospects again.

Hoffenheim and SC Freiburg are 3rd and 4th, respectively. Going through their XIs? Sorry, can't take that league seriously.
Havertz is a big talent - but it does not surprise me that he does not light up in the EPL as he never had the great workrate and does not like to do power training that he might need to improve.

Werner performs the way I expected him to perform in a team with other tactics. Leipzig played to his strength - and he never was the mentally strong player.

Thiago has injury problems since the start of his EPL career and had e.g. Covid twice. It was obvious that he has to adapt to the team and the team to him as the playing style is different - but especially this season I have seen some very good performances of him for Liverpool.

And I guess about every player would have problems at current Manchester United. Your problem is a team problem - not that of single players.

If you see the ranks of Freiburg and Hoffenheim you have to see the failures at Leipzig, Gladbach and Leverkusen, too. Freiburg has a very good team even if they do not have that strong individualists - and a fabulous coach - Hoffenheim has some good individualists, a good team and a good coach. If the usual teams for that positions would perform Freiburg and Hoffenheim would be somewhere in the middle of the table.
 
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kaiser1

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My estimation of Bundesliga has PLUMMETED since seeing Havertz, Sancho, Werner and Thiago struggle in the PL or struggle to reach their lofty heights as they did in the Bundesliga.

I think we need to think twice before purchasing Bundesliga prospects again.

Hoffenheim and SC Freiburg are 3rd and 4th, respectively. Going through their XIs? Sorry, can't take that league seriously.
Did you check the lineup of the team currently 4th in the EPL which is West Ham? and took that serious
Or the performance of Gray and Dennis who just came from their Bundesliga woes
 
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CraftySoAndSo

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My estimation of Bundesliga has PLUMMETED since seeing Havertz, Sancho, Werner and Thiago struggle in the PL or struggle to reach their lofty heights as they did in the Bundesliga.

I think we need to think twice before purchasing Bundesliga prospects again.

Hoffenheim and SC Freiburg are 3rd and 4th, respectively. Going through their XIs? Sorry, can't take that league seriously.
You do realise half the Bundesliga changed their managers in the summer? Not all of them made correct decisions and aren't at the standards of previous seasons. Is the Premier League crap because Leicester beat the big 6 to the league. What is the difference from Hoffenheim and Freiburg being in the top 4 and West Ham doing it this season and Leicester challenging over the last couple of years? It happens when mid table sides make smart decisions and take advantage of bigger sides faltering for whatever reason, like this season. Teams like Monchengladbach, Frankfurt, Leipzig and Wolfsburg took those spots last year, changed managers and are struggling. And stop disrespecting Hoffenheim and Freiburg, just because they're "small" doesn't mean they can't have a good season.
 

stefan92

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You do realise half the Bundesliga changed their managers in the summer? Not all of them made correct decisions and aren't at the standards of previous seasons. Is the Premier League crap because Leicester beat the big 6 to the league. What is the difference from Hoffenheim and Freiburg being in the top 4 and West Ham doing it this season and Leicester challenging over the last couple of years? It happens when mid table sides make smart decisions and take advantage of bigger sides faltering for whatever reason, like this season. Teams like Monchengladbach, Frankfurt, Leipzig and Wolfsburg took those spots last year, changed managers and are struggling. And stop disrespecting Hoffenheim and Freiburg, just because they're "small" doesn't mean they can't have a good season.
Hoffenheim under Nagelsmann finished top 4 before. It's not like the club has never been that far up in the table.
 

CraftySoAndSo

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Hoffenheim under Nagelsmann finished top 4 before. It's not like the club has never been that far up in the table.
I know mate but that was a few years ago and they've struggled a bit since but seem to be doing better now. I posted that in a hurry and didn't completely read through it.
 

DutchCruijff

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Did you check the lineup of the team currently 4th in the EPL which is West Ham? and took that serious
Or the performance of Gray and Dennis who just came from their Bundesliga woes
The second highest scorer in the Bundesliga is Patrik Schick, a guy who scored 5 goals in near 50 appearances for Roma and you expect me to take Bundesliga seriously?

Come on now.

Poor league, poor competition and poor quality of football.
 

kaiser1

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The second highest scorer in the Bundesliga is Patrik Schick, a guy who scored 5 goals in near 50 appearances for Roma and you expect me to take Bundesliga seriously?

Come on now.

Poor league, poor competition and poor quality of football.
Immobile scored 3 goals for Dortmund, 2 goals for Sevilla and he is best striker in Serie A
Dennis could not even make the squad nor score a goal at Koln he is one of the top corers in EPL
 

Acrobat7

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The second highest scorer in the Bundesliga is Patrik Schick, a guy who scored 5 goals in near 50 appearances for Roma and you expect me to take Bundesliga seriously?

Come on now.

Poor league, poor competition and poor quality of football.
Poor logic, poor post, newbie for a bit longer :cool:
 

Hansi Fick

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Let's be honest, and sensitive Man United fans please don't read any further, but Rangnick is a clown who hasn't a clue about either the PL and the Bundesliga. He has managed a whopping 12 months in the last decade in Bundesliga so he doesn't know the first thing about how the current teams play. His level and familiarity really is more with MLS these days. And then, why the hell would he be "surprised" that PL's lower table teams are physically astute and well-organized? Hasn't he been watching? Apparently not.
 

Samid

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Second best team in Germany getting annihilated at home by Scottish farmers.
 

TenonTen

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The second highest scorer in the Bundesliga is Patrik Schick, a guy who scored 5 goals in near 50 appearances for Roma and you expect me to take Bundesliga seriously?

Come on now.

Poor league, poor competition and poor quality of football.
Immobile says hi.

Oh and 40 year old grandpas and Lukaku tear up the Serie A and you expect me to take it seriously........

Anyone who has watched Bundesliga will tell you it has the most entertaining games by far. That league has given the modern game many of its great tacticians for a reason.


Second best team in Germany getting annihilated at home by Scottish farmers.
Ever since Haaland arrived Dortmund have gotten worse.
 

V.O.

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It's cheesy and shite under any circumstances, but the flowery, triumphant fecking goal music blaring when they knocked in a consolation in the middle of being twatted by Rangers absolutely slayed me. :lol:
 

Lay

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Do they not defend in the Bundesliga? Anyway conceding 4 goals at home to a Scottish side is confirmation the Bundesliga is trash.
 

Samid

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6 goals away from home on the opening night. League done and dusted before 16 teams have even kicked a ball.
 

2ndTouch

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Do they not defend in the Bundesliga? Anyway conceding 4 goals at home to a Scottish side is confirmation the Bundesliga is trash.
That trash was good enough for West Ham last year.