German football is turd

TwoSheds

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Say as much shit as you want, but give respect to that guy's name. He's a World Cup winner and a world class CB at his peak. :mad:
Varane is a world cup winner. They're both pretty shite.
 

TwoSheds

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I guess we are not one of them.
We're not? We beat Leipzig 8-3 on aggregate. We're just also a fecking stupid team who can throw away easy points against anyone in the world.
 

hasanejaz88

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This Dortmund team is really weird. On their day they can be a serious threat to anyone, but on another day they lose against a small team.

They definitely need Haaland to put on a challenge, though.
Yea the biggest problem lately has been the absence of Haaland. There away record, with our without Haaland, in the UCL has been really poor though and they can come unstuck against any team.
 

Kasper

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Dortmund and Gladbach will go out. Favre is not made for KO stage and Gladbachs squad is probably the worst from all the 16 teams. Leipzig can surprise anyone but is still an underdog against every possible opponent. Bayern will go through.

Thread is obviously shit (and was a wum) but apart from Bayern these teams have been quite fortunate to go through. United shouldn't have screwed up in Istanbul and Inters no show against Donezk as well, nevertheless Gladbach going through is still impressive of course.
 

ForEverEleven

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4 clubs in the CL knockouts, despite really tough groups for Leipzig and Gladbach. Maybe German football isn´t turd at all, who would´ve thought.
 

mav_9me

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We're not? We beat Leipzig 8-3 on aggregate. We're just also a fecking stupid team who can throw away easy points against anyone in the world.
This is not an aggregate round though.

You can say and feel we are better than this team that team etc etc. The table doesn't lie, for the most part.

It's not like we were unlucky either.
 

SilentStrike

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We're not? We beat Leipzig 8-3 on aggregate. We're just also a fecking stupid team who can throw away easy points against anyone in the world.
7-3*
Also both goals last night were dubious refereeing, and 4 United goals in the 5-0 victory were counter attacks in the last 15 minutes.
I don't mean to downplay United at all, but considering this (quite arrogant) thread was created after the 5-0 victory it is looking quite amusing in hindsight.

Anyways PSG should have been the one who got knocked out. That laughable Di Maria dive that won them the game vs Leipzig was a true digrace. Also nothing would have been more satisfying than seeing PSG knocked out.
 

Tonicruise

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Hummels is still solid i agree.

On the other matter there are not 8 teams better than Leipizig and Dortmund in the PL, there are 5-6 with a better squad for sure but not better teams (obviously) which is what matters in the end. Also pretty impressed with that Nagelsman has been able to do in the last two seasons, Semi finals and now (although with some luck) got through a tough group. Leipzig has a very talented squad but lacks star players like Bayern or Dortmund but still manages to put out surprisingly good results. I'm really looking forward to see Nagelsman (in a few years) att a bigger club soon, would love to see what he could do with United over a 2 year period.
 

TwoSheds

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Also both goals last night were dubious refereeing, and 4 United goals in the 5-0 victory were counter attacks in the last 15 minutes.
I don't mean to downplay United at all, but considering this (quite arrogant) thread was created after the 5-0 victory it is looking quite amusing in hindsight.

Anyways PSG should have been the one who got knocked out. That laughable Di Maria dive that won them the game vs Leipzig was a true digrace. Also nothing would have been more satisfying than seeing PSG knocked out.
Somehow nobody deserved to go through in that group, but of everyone PSG were clearly the best team. They will still get beaten by an organised team like Bayern or Atletico though. Sad how hard it is to think of any organised teams this year...Spurs I suppose but they're not in the CL.
 

Lyricist

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Dortmund and Gladbach will go out. Favre is not made for KO stage and Gladbachs squad is probably the worst from all the 16 teams. Leipzig can surprise anyone but is still an underdog against every possible opponent. Bayern will go through.

Thread is obviously shit (and was a wum) but apart from Bayern these teams have been quite fortunate to go through. United shouldn't have screwed up in Istanbul and Inters no show against Donezk as well, nevertheless Gladbach going through is still impressive of course.
While Dortmund are such a spineless side at times and were lucky with their weak group, I fully disagree with this notion of Gladbach and Leipzig having been fortunate to go through.

Gladbach were in a monster group, yet could've already been qualified as clear first in the group after matchday 5.
- Beat Shakhtar 6-0 away from home. 3 points
- Beat Shakhtar 4-0 at home. 3 points
- Were 2-0 up against Real until the 88th minute in their first game. Game ended 2-2. 3 points until the last minutes
- Were 2-1 up against Inter until the dying seconds of extra time in their first game. Game ended 2-2. 3 points until the dying seconds
- Were denied the late 3-3 against Inter in the return leg by the ref...debatable offside call on a player that didn't hinder the gk's sight and didn't touch the ball to say the least. denied 1 point by the ref
- Lost the last game against Real 2-0 away (yes it should've been 6-0 or something like that, they were fortunate last night). outclassed on the night

Obviously they did bottle it a bit in their first games against Real and Inter, but both of them are massive clubs, and Gladbach surely were underdogs in all these games aside of maybe against Shakhtar, who I would also see as a slightly higher rated footballing side normally. In other words they had no business to even be in the position to potentially bottle getting through, but they put the other teams in the group to the brink of elimination by extremely strong team play in all of their first 5 games. Susceptible defensively, yes, but offensively they were extremely dangerous all throughout the group stages and their strikers were in clinical form. Some of the goals Gladbach have scored in these group stages were amongst the best to be scored in this CL campaign.

Regarding Leipzig, yes United shouldn't have fecked this up. But in that group it was actually PSG who came out of nowhere to still go through. Massive for them obviously, but PSG were the worse team in 2 back to back wins against Leipzig and United that they needed to even give them a chance to still qualify in the first place. They lost both of their first games against Leipzig and United, and barely scraped to wins in the return fixtures and somehow even managed to get the better h2h in both ties. That's where one should point for "shouldn't have happened" in this group, along with United's away loss to IBFK. Leipzig won the games they won deservedly. United won the games they won deservedly. It could've easily been United and Leipzig going through in that group. As I said, obviously massive by PSG to somehow get those scrappy wins, and definitely wouldn't have been easy to get them in a convincing manner while under such pressure of elimination, so kudos to them.

All in all though, Bayern, Gladbach, and Leipzig fully deserved to go through. Dortmund were scrappy in basically all their games but were gifted a weak group.
 

hasanejaz88

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7-3*
Also both goals last night were dubious refereeing, and 4 United goals in the 5-0 victory were counter attacks in the last 15 minutes.
I don't mean to downplay United at all, but considering this (quite arrogant) thread was created after the 5-0 victory it is looking quite amusing in hindsight.

Anyways PSG should have been the one who got knocked out. That laughable Di Maria dive that won them the game vs Leipzig was a true digrace. Also nothing would have been more satisfying than seeing PSG knocked out.
I'm surprised no one else pointed this out. I thought Greenwood moved into Konate rather than the other way around and went down on contact, should not have been a penalty but given the was contact it was never going to be overturn.

For the Pogba goal, didn't it hit his hand on the way through?
 

Nick7

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I'm surprised no one else pointed this out. I thought Greenwood moved into Konate rather than the other way around and went down on contact, should not have been a penalty but given the was contact it was never going to be overturn.

For the Pogba goal, didn't it hit his hand on the way through?
I’m pretty sure most would say the penalty was soft. I thought it was a free out.

Nah it didn’t, it hit Maguire’s head.
 

Sky1981

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The bundesliga is worse packaged than the EPL, the bundesliga teams aren't well known to the whole world compared to say Fulham, Leeds, or Westham. In Indonesia we've heard about Fulham, we knew roughly how they fare, how strong they are, the EPL is very familiar with us. Hence we see and more up to date with EPL.

But in terms of quality ? Football is football, as shown we're no better than RB leipzig, so they're not actually turd. If they're turd then we just got beaten by turd.
 

Lyricist

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I’m pretty sure most would say the penalty was soft. I thought it was a free out.

Nah it didn’t, it hit Maguire’s head.
I'd say it's actually quite tough to call. There was one angle where the goal post was blocking the view, one angle where it clearly looked like it hit his hand and couldn't have been the head (it deflected so awkwardly while being away from his body), and one angle where it clearly looked like it hit his head.

Imagine the combination of that soft penalty, the potential handball, and that potential late own goal though. Would've been some crazy turn of events.
 

giorno

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In other words they had no business to even be in the position to potentially bottle getting through, but they put the other teams in the group to the brink of elimination by extremely strong team play in all of their first 5 games. Susceptible defensively, yes, but offensively they were extremely dangerous all throughout the group stages and their strikers were in clinical form. Some of the goals Gladbach have scored in these group stages were amongst the best to be scored in this CL campaign.
Not really. They did it mostly through luck, moments of brilliance from their forwards, and more luck as madrid and inter combined for 2 points against donetsk
 

Daniel_de_Foe

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Hummels is still solid i agree.

On the other matter there are not 8 teams better than Leipizig and Dortmund in the PL, there are 5-6 with a better squad for sure but not better teams (obviously) which is what matters in the end. Also pretty impressed with that Nagelsman has been able to do in the last two seasons, Semi finals and now (although with some luck) got through a tough group. Leipzig has a very talented squad but lacks star players like Bayern or Dortmund but still manages to put out surprisingly good results. I'm really looking forward to see Nagelsman (in a few years) att a bigger club soon, would love to see what he could do with United over a 2 year period.
Hummels is still a top 5 defender in the world. He would still be a starter for Bayern, Süle is struggling at the moment.

it is a best of, but 8 minutes only from the last ten months is still pretty impressive.
type: Mats Hummels 2020/21 - Defender Skills & Goals - HD in yt, I cant post media myself



There are 4-6 teams with better players than Dortmund? Can you elaborate that?
 

Nick7

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I'd say it's actually quite tough to call. There was one angle where the goal post was blocking the view, one angle where it clearly looked like it hit his hand and couldn't have been the head (it deflected so awkwardly while being away from his body), and one angle where it clearly looked like it hit his head.

Imagine the combination of that soft penalty, the potential handball, and that potential late own goal though. Would've been some crazy turn of events.
I haven’t rewatched it but I was sure it just bounced off his big head. There was a second deflection off a Leipzig player I think, before the keeper hit it in.

Edit: Watched it again, it was definitely just his big ole head.
 

mitchmouse

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Can't agree that French top division is better than Germany.. and just because Bayern and Dortmund always dominate, well who challenges PSG? and who, in reality is challenging City and Liverpool right now?
 

hasanejaz88

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Not really. They did it mostly through luck, moments of brilliance from their forwards, and more luck as madrid and inter combined for 2 points against donetsk
How are they lucky Madrid and Inter couldn't beat a team they beat 10-0 over two legs? You can argue they were lucky to get draws since the opposition had more shots, though from the highlights of the matches I don't seem to remember either Inter or Madrid missing many big chances in those matches, just having a lot of half chances, but to say they are lucky because other teams were piss against a team they destroyed is showing abit of bitterness.
 

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Can't agree that French top division is better than Germany.. and just because Bayern and Dortmund always dominate, well who challenges PSG? and who, in reality is challenging City and Liverpool right now?
It clearly isn't

Bayern > PSG
Rest of German league >>>>>> rest of French league
 

Lyricist

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To be fair, Shakhtar are a good side and have been for about the last ten years. They're no slouches or walkovers as shown by them almost making it out of the group themselves.
 

Zehner

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Not really. They did it mostly through luck, moments of brilliance from their forwards, and more luck as madrid and inter combined for 2 points against donetsk
That Gladbach team severely lacks individual quality but they played brilliantly as a collective in the second Inter, the first Madrid and both Donetsk games. They're punching way above their weight.
 

RobinLFC

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That Gladbach team severely lacks individual quality but they played brilliantly as a collective in the second Inter, the first Madrid and both Donetsk games. They're punching way above their weight.
They'll face PSG, Juve, Liverpool, Chelsea or City now. Could see them getting a result against the latter two if they're still in the same form in February/March.
 

Lay

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4 German teams
4 Spanish teams
3 English teams
3 Italian teams

I feel sorry for leagues such as the Dutch or Portuguese. They’re going to get left so far behind
 

RobinLFC

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I feel sorry for leagues such as the Dutch or Portuguese. They’re going to get left so far behind
Tbf Porto is through and that's all Portugal could ask for these days, isn't it? Both Ajax and Bruges still had the opportunity to advance in the last game, for Bruges that's a success in itself (they came a few inches away from going through as well) these days, compared to where Belgian teams were a decade ago.
 

Hansinity

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Someone really said Ligue 1 better than Bundesliga ? Insane dumb take.
 

Denis' cuff

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Can't agree that French top division is better than Germany.. and just because Bayern and Dortmund always dominate, well who challenges PSG? and who, in reality is challenging City and Liverpool right now?
spurs
chelsea
united

Don’t be silly - look at past bundes champions and French champions in the past 10 years

vs

united
ciddy
chelsea
leicester
even liverpool
 

giorno

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How are they lucky Madrid and Inter couldn't beat a team they beat 10-0 over two legs? You can argue they were lucky to get draws since the opposition had more shots, though from the highlights of the matches I don't seem to remember either Inter or Madrid missing many big chances in those matches, just having a lot of half chances, but to say they are lucky because other teams were piss against a team they destroyed is showing abit of bitterness.
Semantics. Luck, fate, whatever, point being it's something outside their control that went their way against the odds. Donetsk were the worse team in the group by far, should have been pumped in all 6 games, and yet inter and madrid failed to do so, and thanks to that they went through
 

giorno

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That Gladbach team severely lacks individual quality but they played brilliantly as a collective in the second Inter, the first Madrid and both Donetsk games. They're punching way above their weight.
They have looked like a well drilled side at times, sure enough, but if i were to judge them based on these 6 games i'd say they have 2 fecking great strikers and everything else is pretty much secondary to that. Pretty good if limited collective organization, all in all a good side, nothing more than that, and not a side that should progress beyond this point. Can't see them troubling any of their possible R16 opponents
 

mitchmouse

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spurs
chelsea
united

Don’t be silly - look at past bundes champions and French champions in the past 10 years

vs

united
ciddy
chelsea
leicester
even liverpool
if you really think United are challenging for the title, I suggest finding a doctor :wenger::lol:
 

Zehner

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They have looked like a well drilled side at times, sure enough, but if i were to judge them based on these 6 games i'd say they have 2 fecking great strikers and everything else is pretty much secondary to that. Pretty good if limited collective organization, all in all a good side, nothing more than that, and not a side that should progress beyond this point. Can't see them troubling any of their possible R16 opponents
Great is a bit of an exaggeration, IMO. They're decent but nothing special if you ask me. To me their collective is their biggest strength. Almost every player looks better under Rose than before.
 

giorno

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Great is a bit of an exaggeration, IMO. They're decent but nothing special if you ask me. To me their collective is their biggest strength. Almost every player looks better under Rose than before.
Their collective finishes dead last in this group without Thuram and Plea being exceptional

They're well coached for sure, but ultimately it's those two that carried them in CL
 

kaiser1

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Their collective finishes dead last in this group without Thuram and Plea being exceptional

They're well coached for sure, but ultimately it's those two that carried them in CL
Where do you think Man Utds collective finish without Rashford and Bruno
Or Madrid without Benzema and Ramos
Or Inter without Lukaku
or Liverpool without Salah and Mane

we can go on..
 

giorno

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Where do you think Man Utds collective finish without Rashford and Bruno
Or Madrid without Benzema and Ramos
Or Inter without Lukaku
or Liverpool without Salah and Mane

we can go on..
So we agree then

(Liverpool without Salah and Mane would likely still be great though)
 

Lyricist

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So we agree then

(Liverpool without Salah and Mane would likely still be great though)
You're forgetting
Neuhaus, who has been incredible this CL season and will become a brilliant player
Sommer, who is a superb shot stopper as shown yesterday
Stindl, who doesn't look flashy, but creates stuff like Thomas Müller, albeit being a bit less energetic.
Lainer, whose offensive drive from right back has really improved Gladbach

Otherwise yes, their squad is average, as is normal for a club with Gladbach's budget. But with Plea and Thuram that's 6/11 players who are noteworthy. Without at least the 3 outfield players I mentioned, Plea and Thuram also do nothing.

Now obviously Madrid were the much better side than Gladbach yesterday as is to be expected. Madrid came back out of nowhere in the first game though where Gladbach performed brilliantly (yes, Thuram and Plea were amongst the standouts).
Inter's and Gladbach's meetings maybe favored Inter just due to Lukaku's body strength, despite Inter being the clear favorites.
Shakhtar were absolutely destroyed by Gladbach.

I'd say Gladbach's final position in this group is what it should be when considering how all of the games played out. Maybe Inter should've beaten Shakhtar. But in all honesty, based on the size of their club and their financial advantage, they shouldn't have trouble with Gladbach either. As another poster mentioned, Gladbach punched well above their weight this CL campaign, but they absolutely deserved to go through.
I agree with you though, they probably won't trouble any of their potential next opponents.
 
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Acrobat7

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I especially agree on Neuhaus. He could become great.