German football is turd

redcucumber

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Give a possible way that can make what you want to happen in the Buli.

Bayern hardly lose its best player while by this summer Bellingham and Nkunku possibly Gvadiol are leaving the 2 teams closest to giving Bayern a challenge. So how do you expect Dortmund and Leipzig to compete next season. City has Gundogan Akanji Haaland and KdB from the Bundesliga. Possibly Dortmund could have won the league this season with Haaland instead of Modeste/Haller.

EPL is outspending the rest of Europe using some of these oil money you hate. Chelsea is spending more than 3 leagues combined and you think there is a way around it. The only reason Madrid and Barca have remained competitive is because they take an unfair share of the TV money
In Europe the clubs that can match Bayern are the traditional clubs which were already rich by the 90s or oligarch clubs which I suppose you despise

There are 2 ways to make the German league more competitive
1 Strengthening others clubs to the level of Bayern. By taking Oligarch money which you preach against
2. To weaken Bayern to the level of the teams below them and become another Belgian league which you enjoy the competition?

No club can build organically to overtake Bayern as it is. Just like Chelsea Man City (who have won 7 of the last 9 EPL titles) needed oligarch funds to move from midtable teams. Best you can do is to get a great group of players and a good coach. who will be taken apart by the next summer.
I can't tell if you're being deliberately passive aggressive so I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume it's a language issue. I obviously don't have the answers. Like the vast majority of other non-German football watchers, I don't bother wasting my time with the Bundesliga because the product and competition is effectively non existent. As a result, I don't know what solutions to the problem people in Germany are discussing. As warped as La Liga is due to the completely unfair splitting of TV revenue, there has been 3 different winners in the past 4 years. In Italy there has been 4 different winners in the past 4 seasons (assuming Napoli don't fumble it from here). Even in France with the billions of PSG it's more varied. In Germany, the last winner that wasn't Bayern was 2012. Italian and Spanish clubs are both much more successful in European competitions, whereas with Germany it's primarily only Bayern although obviously Frankfurt won the EL last season.

On point 2. Again, I obviously don't watch the Belgian (does anyone outside of Belgium?). But I don't see why that sort of format should be dismissed out of hand as a solution. Although Club Brugge have won the previous 3 titles in a row, previous to that Genk, Anderlecht, and Gent have all won it relatively recently. I mean, it sounds like an extremely exciting way to end a season.
 

Nou_Camp99

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If any major league needs an influx of foreign money it's Bundesliga. But of course they have rules to prevent this which just ensures Bayern will sweep everyone away until the end of time. Boring. When they win the league this summer it will be 11 years on the bounce won't it? Hahahaha.

Imagine Hertha Berlin or Stuttgart getting mega wealthy owners and being able to attract top players. It would make the league so much better than it is.
 

HTG

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If any major league needs an influx of foreign money it's Bundesliga. But of course they have rules to prevent this which just ensures Bayern will sweep everyone away until the end of time. Boring. When they win the league this summer it will be 11 years on the bounce won't it? Hahahaha.

Imagine Hertha Berlin or Stuttgart getting mega wealthy owners and being able to attract top players. It would make the league so much better than it is.
I agree wholeheartedly. It’s a shame no rich investor has tried to turn Hertha into a huge club. A big city club, if you will.
 

B. Munich

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Juve had already won way more Serie A titles than anyone else before their sequence of 9 in a row started from 2011/2012, and finally at long last this season, the title will be won by a team outside the traditional big 3 for the first time in 22 years.
Let's what will happen to this Napoli team. Going by the threads here at RedCafé the vultures are already waiting for the end of the season to lure their best players to the EPL.

There is no more fair competition in Europa with the number of sugar daddy and oil state clubs growing and growing.
 

miked99

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10 seasons in a row is ridiculous, that's SPL level when Rangers weren't around. Not sure what the solution is. That gap isn't closing any time soon.

Ultimately it leads to diminishing returns in European competition. It was the same with United after the treble season. Every game in the run in that season was meaningful, it was crunch game after crunch game and any drop in performance or loss of focus would've been fatal. The two seasons after we won the league at a canter but failed miserably in the CL. You don't maintain the same level when you're not being pushed and having to perform to your maximum every week.
 

KeanoMagicHat

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BL is light years behind PL.
Unfortunately that’s what they get for having a proper football model and not opening their league up for nation states and billionaire venture capitalists. Ideally the solution would be for the PL to reform, not Bundesliga. Although something has to be done about Bayern’s dominance.
 

horsechoker

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This is the end of the Bundesliga as a top league. Bayern don't have a pool of world-class German players to draw on and nobody wants to go to the Bundesliga nor do Bayern have unlimited funds like PSG.
 

Based Adnan

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No wonder players are racking up ridiculous stats in the Bundesliga when Upamecano is among the best defenders they have to offer
 

We need an rvn

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Unfortunately that’s what they get for having a proper football model and not opening their league up for nation states and billionaire venture capitalists. Ideally the solution would be for the PL to reform, not Bundesliga. Although something has to be done about Bayern’s dominance.
I get what you’re saying about the model re Dan ownership, not opening up to venture capitalists, nation states - but please explain how a drink brand can buy and rename Leipzig though to red bull and not be classed a venture club etc?

any league that allows one club to win 17 out of the last 23 titles since 2000 needs a complete reform and I think if that were to happen in the UK many people would turn to other sports

even in the Dutch league you have good years between Ajax, feyenoord and psv. In Italy it’s the milans, Juventus, Roma, lazio etc.

i truly struggle to see how any true German football fan can say their league would be better off if Bayern weren’t there to be honest
 

Amar__

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This is the end of the Bundesliga as a top league. Bayern don't have a pool of world-class German players to draw on and nobody wants to go to the Bundesliga nor do Bayern have unlimited funds like PSG.
They still have entire league to choose from, everyone wants to play for Bayern, and they can still pay Bundesliga level of money for players from Bundesliga, so they will improve. I mean, I am sure they've had worse seasons in CL.

They had the likes of Olic playing CF for them, and tonight they have the likes of Mane on the bench, it's not their worst team by any means.
 

Djemba-Djemba

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Upamecano was absolutely atrocious, just as he was for Leipzig when they came to Manchester against us a few years ago.

Bayern well beaten.
 

horsechoker

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They still have entire league to choose from, everyone wants to play for Bayern, and they can still pay Bundesliga level of money for players from Bundesliga, so they will improve. I mean, I am sure they've had worse seasons in CL.

They had the likes of Olic playing CF for them, and tonight they have the likes of Mane on the bench, it's not their worst team by any means.
That's all well and good but if you look at the German national team it's also quite mediocre compared to years gone past. They can still attract good players but they're falling behind the top English teams, PSG and Real.
 

mu4c_20le

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No wonder players are racking up ridiculous stats in the Bundesliga when Upamecano is among the best defenders they have to offer
Musiala is their best player in the league. Dont wanna crap on the lad as he's still young but looked out of his depth tonight.
 

bosnian_red

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Bayern would struggle to finish In the top 4 in the Prem
In reality they're probably the 2nd best side in the world, behind City.... City on form can do this to anybody, which is the shite part. Can't do much other than acknowledge that Pep is just a great manager and it is what it is. Once he's gone, they'll drop down multiple levels.
 

Irwin99

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o...k , thanks Bayern, have to rely on Real Madrid to knock out City now.
 

crossy1686

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In reality they're probably the 2nd best side in the world, behind City.... City on form can do this to anybody, which is the shite part. Can't do much other than acknowledge that Pep is just a great manager and it is what it is. Once he's gone, they'll drop down multiple levels.
They haven't got a forward and they just sacked their manager. They're barely second best in Germany right now.
 

Djemba-Djemba

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In reality they're probably the 2nd best side in the world, behind City.... City on form can do this to anybody, which is the shite part. Can't do much other than acknowledge that Pep is just a great manager and it is what it is. Once he's gone, they'll drop down multiple levels.
No chance are Bayern the 2nd best side in the world.
 

bosnian_red

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They haven't got a forward and they just sacked their manager. They're barely second best in Germany right now.
City are 2nd in the prem and nobody with half a brain cell would try to say that Arsenal are a better team than City. That sort of situation for Bayern. Massive overperformance vs underlying metrics by Dortmund and Union Berlin which is basically a 1 off flukey thing.

Sacking Nagelsmann was more for off the pitch stuff and how he treated other parts of the squad more than anything the starting 11 ever did tbf.
 

Abraxas

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What's new? It's only going to get worse and worse. Wherever the most money is will be where the top players go and there's only so much you're going to do with smart recruitment.

Bayern being good more often than not and winning every league title just means they're the economic powerhouse among teams that are not powerhouses. So they can be very strong most of the time (okay not tonight) in Europe but it doesn't really say anything for the health of the league. Same situation in France, even if PSG got their act together and did better in Europe which they're capable of, it says jack shit about French football in the complete picture.

Whether it's a problem, I don't know. I guess it is for fans of those leagues because they'll be watching a diluted product. It's probably not such an issue for the many worldwide viewers of the PL who don't give a shite about that. This will keep progressing over the next few decades unless there is some kind of drastic change to the way football works. The commercial opportunities in the PL are so large which they are going to continue to monetize and the attitude to regulating ownership so laissez-faire I don't see any outcome but a continuing divergence between the talent pools in these leagues.

Luckily there's a lot of talent in the world so that's where these leagues can step in and do good recruitment. But they will be nothing but a conveyor belt for the PL in the long run.
 

bosnian_red

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No chance are Bayern the 2nd best side in the world.
Who is? Can't say Arsenal is after 1 good PL season while ignoring every other cup. Can't say Barca are, obviously. Can't say Madrid is with their league struggles. Definitely not PSG. Napoli having a great season, but again, early to put them on that pedestal. It's City, Bayern and Real Madrid as the top 3 by a very big distance, as it's been every season for the past 5 years basically (along with Liverpool before this season).
 

MoskvaRed

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Unfortunately that’s what they get for having a proper football model and not opening their league up for nation states and billionaire venture capitalists. Ideally the solution would be for the PL to reform, not Bundesliga. Although something has to be done about Bayern’s dominance.
The last bit is understatement- a “proper football model“ which makes the Scottish league look competitive?
 

SirReginald

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Are we surprised Bayern got battered? Gnabry is shit and he is their biggest threat.
 

Lay

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Bayern haven't been great this season but that was utter shite. Upamecano is horrendous, how in the hell is he starting for Bayern
 

Zehner

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Bayern haven't been great this season but that was utter shite. Upamecano is horrendous, how in the hell is he starting for Bayern
It's typically Upamecano. Has always been like that. It was so weird that he was as hyped as he was, similarly to Bellingham now. Nerves and focus of Werner
 

Care_de_Bobo

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It's easy to blame Bayern, but the reality is that they have had to take the best players from their own rivals because there is no way they can compete financially with the PL teams, especially the financial dopers like Chelsea and City.

Bayern's closest domestic competition, Dortmund, have close to double the weekly attendance of City yet can't compete financially with them because of oil and TV money and therefore can't compete on the field.

United will probably be the next financially doped club and we'll be dishing our hidings to the likes of Bayern and Real every year, but it won't really mean much to anyone because of the inevitability of it all.

But, yeah, let's all laugh at the Bundesliga for not whoring out their clubs to the highest bidder and keeping their ticket prices down for their fans.
 

Oscar Bonavena

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What exactly did Upamecano need to do to get hauled off in that game?! He was a disaster zone every time he touched the ball in the 2nd half!

I thought Munich were OK in the first half and start of the 2nd but they really fell apart in the last half hour and City could've scored 4 or 5 easily.
 

B. Munich

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We were missing Neuer and Hernandez badly. The latter is the better big game player than Upamecano. Upamecano had an used day, everybody could see it from beginning.

Having no striker on the pitch didn't helped either.

At the end Man City deserved to win and will go through. They are in top form at the right time of the season.