Germany at World Cup 2014

Balu

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I'm pretty sure that they don't know what they're doing, I just hope we have a shot at the title anyway. Often enough tournaments were won 'despite' the coaching staff and not 'because' of them :nervous:.
 

Melvyn

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I don't follow the German NT so it's interesting to read the German posters' views of this seemingly incompetent Joachim Löw.

Can't believe that Reus will be 28 before his first WC. Shittiest luck ever to get injured the day before flying to Brazil.
 

Lyricist

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Can't say i've seen the guy play one minute. Ever. Löw and his crew did. I (still) assume they know what they are doing and i hope not to be proven wrong :D
I did see him play. He's alright, good passer of the ball, kinda like Hummels from what I saw. But in that game, due to wanting to be the playmaker from CB, he also gave away the ball in typical Demichelis fashion at times...short vertical run -> no options to pass -> losing the ball -> opponent counter attack on with one CB missing. That said, he still seemed talented and it was about a year ago or so.

BUT
how does a 6th CB make sense when Höwedes or Boateng could've just as well been kept as backup CBs and Schmelzer or Jung could've been added to the roster as backup FBs. Even without another backup, if Durm started at left back we'd have Höwedes, Ginter, and Großkreutz on the bench. How many defensive changes are we gonna make in the games. Volland has had his third consecutive great season, is captain of the same u21 team Mustafi was in and is their start, yet Mustafi gets included over him.

Still it's not so much about Volland vs Mustafi, it's more about the fact that this means Löw actually thinks Höwedes and Boateng are fullbacks. We should just start turning our wingers into FBs for the next tournament, better than playing slow, tall, and rather immobile CBs there.
 

justboy68

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Can See Germany going out in the semis again or maybe even quarters depending on who they draw. Just looking at it I maintain Spain are simply stronger in every department, the have a better defence, better midfield and better striker. Brazil are also stronger overall and Italy - Luxembourg embarrassment aside - seem to have the better tools on paper I would say, but the latters performance at the WC could go either way.
 

Acrobat7

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I think the problem is not replacing Reus with Mustafi, but that he didn't take Mustafi in the first place and left Draxler at home. Then he'd call up Draxler now to take Reus' spot and no one would argue about it.

If Lahm is needed/wanted in midfield than Boateng would be my first choice at RB. And then you need an additional CB like Mustafi.
But with Löw calling him up now it seems as if he made up his mind just now and that is confusing. You'd think the coach's gameplan would already be in place.
 
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Lyricist

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I think the problem is not replacing Reus with Mustafi, but that he didn't take Mustafi in the first place and left Draxler at home. Then he'd call up Draxler now to take Reus' spot and no one would argue about it.

If Lahm is needed/wanted in midfield than Boateng would be my first choice at RB. And then you need an additional CB like Mustafi.
But with Löw calling him up now it seems as if he made up his mind just now and that is confusing. You'd think the coach's gameplan would already be in place.
I disagree. People would've still been furious because he'd have takent 6 CBs but, 0 left footed lbs and only one striker who is 36 and semi injured.

Your last point I agree with though, it definitely seems like he only decided to move Lahm to CM when Khedira looked shit. I'm hopeful Khedira won't start now at least.
 

fcbforever

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"Spitzen", the way we use it were I live, always means "the guys playing at the front" (i.e. "strikers") and not "the front" itself. That's why it confuses me that he would mention pretty much all offensive players as alternatives behind "the players at the front", even though nobody but Klose is left for that position. Sure, I'm probably reading way too much into it, but it smells of a lack of plan or vision to me. I'm with @Sphaero - Löw has lost the plot.

Another thing that rubs me the wrong way: Schmelzer, one of 2 german LBs that don't make me shudder whenever I see their name on the formation sheet, is deemed unfit, but Klose, who Löw previously admitted only a couple of days ago wasn't anywhere near 100% and still isn't, is alright because he's a "tournament player". The double standards just baffle me.

"Miro ist, was seine Leistungsfähigkeit anbelangt, noch nicht ganz bei 100 Prozent. Er hat viel gearbeitet. Am Ende des Trainingslagers hat man ihm seine Müdigkeit angemerkt. Miro ist aber ein Turnierspieler, er weiß, was zu tun ist. Meistens, wenn es darauf ankommt, ist er auf den Punkt genau fit." (http://www.sportschau.de/fifawm2014/nachrichten/interview-mit-joachim-loew-vor-der-abreise100.html)
Well, Miro has proven to be extremly important for the NT while Schmelzer is just...shit. Unfit shit.
 

MikeMango

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Well, Miro has proven to be extremly important for the NT while Schmelzer is just...shit. Unfit shit.
you're right. Wouldn't say Schmelzer is shit but he is certainly not top class, whereas Klose is now the player with the most goals for germany in history and second in world cups goal scorer ranking. You simply can't compare the standing of these two players.

These double standard arguments baffle me. Of course some players are more important than others and the more important ones get special treatment and get to go to the world cup even if not fully fit at the moment. Thats completely normal in a football team. It's also exactly the way the clubs handle such things. F.e. If Ribery is slightly injured at Bayern he gets a place on the bench most of the times, because he has shown his importance and potential for the team in the past. A player like Contento however will mostly likely not be in the squad.

The hate in germany against Löw is absurd. Every decision gets heavily criticized regardless of it's importance. Of course he made a few weird decisions in the past, but overall he works not much different from every other club manager.
 

Blackwidow

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We always talk about the lack of stability in defense and the defensive work of the offensive players or their lack of. So what is wrong with fielding a more defensive fullback?

What stops Lahm when he plays in defensive midfield to sometimes get forward - that is easier if Boateng is the fullback...

---------

The same is when talking about playing without an apointed striker. I do not call it false nine as it was not that what they played in the first half on Friday. It was 3 offensive striker/midfielders that shared all of the 3 position in the offense - wing, forward and even the hanging striker or no. 10 position. With the right players (the problem now is that Reus is missing) that system for me is a lot more promising especially with the temperatures than a system with a fixed striker.

The only problem of that match was the chance conversion - they had enough very good chances which on other days probably would have been taken clinically.
 

Lyricist

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So you wanna say Boateng is slow? I bet he's faster than all other options that Germany has for the fullback positions, especially than that mediocre Schmelzer, whom nobody bar hardcore-fans of Dortmund misses in the squad because he was utter shit in almost every game he had for Germany.

Boateng is more than solid as a fullback. His contribution to the offense surely isn't great but at least he is defensively good. Remember the match against Portugal at the Euro 2012 where he played as a rightback and had Cristiano Ronaldo under control for 90 minutes.

Germany's options for the fullback positions aren't great nowadays, so I would say Boateng is the best fullback they have apart from Lahm. Mediocre players like Schmelzer and Jung surely aren't better.

And regarding Mustafi: Making such a fuss of the squad player number 23, who - regardless if it was Mustafi or Volland - won't play a minute in the tournament unless Germany reaches the game for the third place, is beyond ridiculous. Some German fans are really taking their hatred for Löw too far by complaining about vanities that aren't even worth discussing. It was the same with the third goalkeeper. Yeah, I agree that ter Stegen and Leno would have been better choices than Zieler, but who cares about the third goalkeeper? Yet the fuss on twitter and in German forums couldn't have been bigger.
So you tell me I'm making stupid fuss over things that don't matter at all yet you signed up only to write an angry comment to my post without even really responding to what I actually said? ;)

If you read my post you will clearly see that the scenario I posted features Durm as leftback, and Höwedes, Ginter, and Großkreutz on the bench -> Boateng is the right back in my scenario.

Infact I've wanted Boateng to start as fullback in 2010 and in 2012 and if it's just him starting at FB with Durm at LB then so be it. But the way it's looking now we got 4 defenders who are about 1.90 meters or more, none of them quick on the first meters, 3 of them with slow full speed, all of them bound to struggle vs agile, tricky players.

Boateng is not slow at all, he's got a great top speed but he's certainly not fast on the first meters. Add to that the fact that he usually struggles in 1v1s against small, agile, tricky players with good acceleration. I like Boateng as a player but I've never seen such a good CB who's as useless as soon as the opposing attacker starts doing stepovers.

You mention the match in 2012 and how Boateng had Ronaldo doing nothing for 90 minutes. I disagree...Lahm vs Ronaldo, that's Ronaldo doing nothing for 90 minutes basically every time these two play eachother. But Ronaldo in that game had a couple of good scenes despite not dominating. I remember how Ronaldo kept going at Boateng and Boateng always just contained, and contained and contained while backing up into our own box more and more. Ronaldo didn't get past him a lot but that's because he was hardly ever only 1v1 against him as other German players instantly doubled up on him. He was still able to fizz low crosses into the box or play dangerous cutbacks and had a low shot from about 20 yards out that Neuer struggled with. Had Boateng not been able to slide in with a last ditch tackle in that one scene in the second half Ronaldo would've most likely scored the equalizer. But you're right, Boateng was there in that situation even if it was a close call. Realistically speaking that game could've easily ended 1-1 had Portugal not been so defensive in its approach till about the 75th minute.

But as I said, I don't mind Boateng playing RB all that much even if it's not his best position.

Now, having discussed this whole Boateng issue that you wanted to interpret into my post, lets discuss what I was actually saying.

What sense does it make playing Höwedes at LB and nominating Mustafi as CB when Höwedes never even plays LB, is slow as feck, and Mustafi has no experience whatsoever. Why not keep Höwedes as CB backup and nominate an actual fullback for once. You're saying Jung, who has been impressive in two consecutive seasons and Schmelzer who was good enough for Dortmund to reach the CL final are average, then what is Höwedes as Left Back who might still have nightmares from getting skinned by players like Burak Yilmaz when he was actually playing at CB? I've played as a defender in real life myself actually, and if you had too, you might realize being a good CB doesn't instantly qualify you for the FB positions. Adding to it being new terrain defensively, if Höwedes and Boateng start both of our FBs will most likely offer very little going forward.

What sense does it make taking another CB with no experience who will probably just be a passenger at the World Cup instead of including an actual striker/winger who has just played his 3rd great season in a row and is clearly highly talented. Volland could be a serious alternative for the 36 year old pensioner that is Klose. How often do you watch Volland? Because anyone who regularly sees him will clearly realize he is capable of producing special moments.

You're arguing the 23rd squad member doesn't matter anyway. That used to be the case for sure because Germany didn't have the pool of players that we have now. Currently, if everyone was fit, our 30 best players could all easily come on and make a difference in a World Cup game. Players like Ginter or Mustafi indeed won't make much of a difference because how often do you see CBs coming on to change the game. But when we're trailing in a game that Klose is starting, who is going to come on? Only AMs. Volland played as a CF his whole life prior to his time in Hoffenheim. That's not the same thing as playing Götze up front, don't try to argue that it is.

To win the World Cup the big things and the little things have to be right. What do we have a coach for who's supposed to make the right decisions for a nation of 80 million football loving Germans if we let him screw up big and small decisions at will?
Can you deny that Löw has made MANY questionable decisions in the past? Can you deny that Löw has his darlings who a lot of times started when it really mattered while better players where sitting on the bench or watching from their couches at home? Can you deny that it was Löw's fault in 2012 for picking a ridiculous line up vs Italy with Müller, Reus, Schürrle, and Götze on the bench? Can you deny that Löw as a person in interviews is beyond annoying? There's no denying that and a lot of Germans have had enough of him after 8 years. That's their decision and they have reasons for it just like it's your decision to defend Löw.

By the way I didn't mind Löw opting for Zieler, he performed better for Germany.
I actually think he's by far the most humble out of Ter Stegen, Leno and him and will be a great choice for the third goalkeeper seeing as he won't disrupt the team spirit.
 

Scarecrow

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They still have got the second best squad at the tournament and that would not have been changed by Volland or Schmelzer. Whoever the chosen player was, he was unlikely to feature in any games unless there's an emergency. Obviously the manager has decided that the team needs more width in defense than in attack. I don't see any problem here, to be honest, apart from the obvious one - the absence of Reus. And so what if Klose is the only natural striker. I think all of Muller, Gotze, Podolski and Schurrle are better upfront than any of their other fit #9s at the moment (talking about Volland, even though he's not a CF either).

If there's a reason to be worried, it's the midfield.
 

Blackwidow

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Volland played CF for a second league team and never have played it on the level that we need. Müller has played CF in a 3rd league team 6 years ago - and Durm for Mainz and Dortmund's U23...

Is Volland really an upgrade to Schürrle or Podolski or Klose coming in late?
 

Lyricist

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Volland played CF for a second league team and never have played it on the level that we need. Müller has played CF in a 3rd league team 6 years ago - and Durm for Mainz and Dortmund's U23...

Is Volland really an upgrade to Schürrle or Podolski or Klose coming in late?
This shall be the last time I'll voice my opinion on the selection of Mustafi (who as I've said before I actually rate as I've seen him play in contrary to many German fans)

I probably said multiple times on here, that despite me liking the prospect of seeing Volland in that team it's not so much about the fact that Löw should've chosen Volland over him. It's more about the fact that even if we all follow Löw's way of thought where he needed another defender seeing as Lahm will most likely play in midfield now Mustafi doesn't strike me as the most logical choice.

Höwedes is no LB but for Mustafi's selection making any sense at all that would have to be a premise.

Furthermore under what circumstance will Mustafi be useful to the squad. I'm not doubting his ability and seeing as Löw seems to like him I could DEFINITELY see him actually picking up some playing time in Brazil. But Löw had the chance to make a choice when the 23 men squad was due and opted for Ginter. So if a CB needs to be subbed in it'd only be logical it'd be Ginter as Löw picked him over Mustafi. If for some reason we were without our two first choice CBs though does anyone really think we'd play with a back four of
Höwedes - Mustafi - Ginter - Boateng
??

Surely Höwedes and Boateng are both more proven at this level and seeing as the CB position is absolutely vital, starting them at CB ahead of one of say Ginter or Mustafi would be the most logical choice to make.

So again, under what circumstances, despite me acknowledging Mustafi's quality, would it make sense for him to play. If he's better than Ginter, then Ginter should've not been in the 23 men squad ahead of him. If both our starting CBs are missing, surely one of Höwedes or Boateng should partner Ginter in the center. And considering that scenario, surely a FB would've been the most logical choice considering Löw's thought process of replacing Lahm in defence.
 
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Piratesoup

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Well, Miro has proven to be extremly important for the NT while Schmelzer is just...shit. Unfit shit.
That's exactly the Löw-mindset. Why should we change something when it's always worked? Why not rely on a habitually injured, unfit 35 year old? Why not go into the tournament with a talented, but unproven LB and no back-up whatsoever? This has worked for years now!

Except it hasn't. 2010 worked out because Löw had to improvise with a pretty young squad and make the transition form the Ballack-era. Since then, the team has taken not a single step forward. We're playing more uneffective than we did back then in fact, with one of if not THE best german squad of all time. He should have learned that just sticking to the same old formula because it feels cozy doesn't work.
 

Momochiru

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Klose is the only fully recognized striker in the squad and he is old and not fully fit. It's obvious to everyone that Germany's squad is very unbalanced. This leads to the conclusion that Löw has lost the plot. I'm not his biggest fan myself, but I'm not going to jump on the bandwagon calling for his head. I believe Löw is preparing to play tiki-taka football, aka the 4-6-0 formation used by Spain at the last WC. The choices of defenders, with the lack of pacy wing-backs only confirms my opinion. I think he brought Klose only as a last resort, in case they are losing and he needs to bring a striker with 15-20 minutes left. I'm not a fan of tiki-taka, but it's not such a bad choice for Germany. First the Bayern players, who make up the most of the first team are used to that style, second tiki-taka will help conserve energy, which will be crucial in the terrible heat/humidity in Brazil.

The other tiki-taka team Spain has also a similarly light on strikers squad, but not as badly unbalanced as Germany. With Torres and Costa they have definitely more options up front.

Ultimately the difference between the two tiki-taka teams is that Löw is gambling 100% on one tactics, while VDB has given himself more options. You could argue if dedicating 22 players to fit his plan A is the best way to go, which leaves Klose as the only other option for Löw. It's an all-or-nothing approach, telling me something about Löw's gambling habits...

As much as I dislike tiki-taka, I have to admit that it is a pretty viable for a European team playing in Brazil's conditions, so maybe Löw hasn't completely lost the plot - it remains to be seen.
 
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Blackwidow

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If Schürrle would not have been that good in training on the right position - Löw probably would have taken Volland with him and not Draxler. And - if it would have been Müller and not Reus who would have been injured - he probably would have called Volland as a replacement and not Mustafi. Volland is a player that plays in right offensive midfield or behind the striker. Behind the striker we have sooooo many options - on the left we have a lot with Draxler, Podolski and Schürrle.

How many goals did Torres score this season? And how many Müller (and Reus)? Torres 11, Müller 26... Who of them is a striker and who an offensive midfielder? The spanish offensive midfield/strikers in any formation (even with Costa) produced less goals and assists than the German equivalent for their teams even with a false nine...
 

Carter99

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If you attempt to interpret Löws and Flicks latest reveals regarding the team and the media speculation it looks like this XI could start against Portugal:


-----------------------------------Neuer----------------------------------------

----Boateng----------------Hummels----Mertesacker------------------Durm


-----------------------Lahm--------------------Khedira-----------------------------


------Schürrle--------------------Kroos----------------------------Podolski


---------------------------------Müller-------------------------------------


Not really a fan of this but atleast it would bring Müller up to his best position. He is useless at the wings.

Schürrle and Podolski clicked very well together and scored and assisted each other in the last games.

Kroos is a little bit of a security to maintain possession and to play a trio of defensive minded midfielders when Portugal attack.

Durm has to be the choice even though he is as inexperienced as it gets. He showed that he can shut down Ronaldo and Bale in the CL and Höwedes is way too slow and sloppy for Ronaldo.

I would replace Khedira with Schweinsteiger tough. Schweinsteiger played good in the 2nd half of the Armenia game and offers a little more for the offense.
 

red_hatz

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chances durm will start?
is it too risky including him in my fantasy team ahead of janmaat
 

Lyricist

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chances durm will start?
is it too risky including him in my fantasy team ahead of janmaat
As the above poster said, he should start.

Then again Löw is weird and thinks Höwedes is a LB for some reason (which he is clearly not, he never plays there, but Löw considers him one for this tournament).
It'll be either Durm (only logical decision) or Höwedes (who's a good player but he's no LB).

Not sure which one will start.
 

Hermano

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Jogi will play this team against Portugal accoring to Bild:

-------------------Neuer-----------------------
Boateng--Mertesacker--Hummels--Höwedes
---------------Lahm--Khedira-----------------
-------Müller-----Kroos-----Podolski---------
---------------------Özil-----------------------

It could easily be a 4-3-3 as well, with Lahm in the holding role behind Kroos and Khedira. Will be interesting to see.
 

red_hatz

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thanks guys, so looks like theres too much uncertainty even though he's the logical choice!
 

eddiebb

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I've got no idea as an Englishman why you guys are being so emo about this selection :lol:

You're fecking Germany ffs, you could wheel out the 1990 team and somehow still reach the semis - it's just what Germans do! No matter who is in the squad and how unbalanced it may or may not be, and no matter how dodgy some of the individuals, the Germans always, always find a way, by hook or by crook. I wish England could find even a fraction of that ability :(
 

Carter99

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Jogi will play this team against Portugal accoring to Bild:

-------------------Neuer-----------------------
Boateng--Mertesacker--Hummels--Höwedes
---------------Lahm--Khedira-----------------
-------Müller-----Kroos-----Podolski---------
---------------------Özil-----------------------

It could easily be a 4-3-3 as well, with Lahm in the holding role behind Kroos and Khedira. Will be interesting to see.


i would kill myself if he plays like this.

Özil doesnt even belong to the bench right now.

If you play him, then behind the striker and not as False 9.

How often do we want the False 9 project to fail?

Also Höwedes isnt a LB and never will be. He is slow and sloppy. Hes an average CB.

Khedira shoudnt play aswell. I will be damn mad if we play like this.
 

maze

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Jogi will play this team against Portugal accoring to Bild:

-------------------Neuer-----------------------
Boateng--Mertesacker--Hummels--Höwedes
---------------Lahm--Khedira-----------------
-------Müller-----Kroos-----Podolski---------
---------------------Özil-----------------------

It could easily be a 4-3-3 as well, with Lahm in the holding role behind Kroos and Khedira. Will be interesting to see.
i hope you're trolling us big time
 

Piratesoup

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-------------------Neuer-----------------------
Boateng--Mertesacker--Hummels--Höwedes
---------------Lahm--Khedira-----------------
-------Müller-----Kroos-----Podolski---------
---------------------Özil-----------------------
God have mercy...
 

Balu

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Jogi will play this team against Portugal accoring to Bild:

-------------------Neuer-----------------------
Boateng--Mertesacker--Hummels--Höwedes
---------------Lahm--Khedira-----------------
-------Müller-----Kroos-----Podolski---------
---------------------Özil-----------------------

It could easily be a 4-3-3 as well, with Lahm in the holding role behind Kroos and Khedira. Will be interesting to see.
This is the worst line-up I've seen this year :lol:. Sadly I can't rule out that it might actually happen :(
 

Blackwidow

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The team will look like this...

Neuer
Boateng - Mertesacker - Hummels - ?
Lahm - ? - ?
Müller - ? - ?

In a 4-3-3 Müller will be the Nine (no false one - but then it will be a fluid system with 3 players interchanging) - in a 4-2-3-1 probably Müller+Özil+Podolski + Klose would feature.

So Löw either plays a 3 men CM with Lahm + 2 of Khedira/Kroos/Schweinsteiger or a 2 men CM with Lahm + one of them.

Actually in a 4-3-3 Müller + Schürrle + Götze seem the logical choice. Reus in this strategy is a big miss - in a 4-2-3-1 it does not matter too much who of Reus/Schürrle or Poldi would play the wing.
 

Lyricist

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I've got no idea as an Englishman why you guys are being so emo about this selection :lol:

You're fecking Germany ffs, you could wheel out the 1990 team and somehow still reach the semis - it's just what Germans do! No matter who is in the squad and how unbalanced it may or may not be, and no matter how dodgy some of the individuals, the Germans always, always find a way, by hook or by crook. I wish England could find even a fraction of that ability :(
True, the negativity is a bit stupid.

But our point of view is simply that we've come so close these last times...sooooo soooo close, and some of the exits were hard to take. Others were well deserved though.
But from 2002 till 2010 our squads have basically been extremely average. Still we almost managed to go all the way in 2002, 2006, and 2010. Now we've got one of the best squads we've ever had, so from a German perspective it's time to go all the way once again. We know we got better players than all these last times but Löw's mistakes in 2012 (already a great squad and we should've done better) upset a lot of fans. Most of us are now doubtful that we'll make the final because Löw has already been making similarly stupid decisions as in 2012, and our talisman in Reus is injured too. Out of all the players, the one to do something special despite Löw setting up the team in a weird way, is clearly Reus. Now he's out though and it seems like Podolski will once again start. It's comical how with all the talent we've got amongst our squad Podolski will most likely be a starter in his 5th consecutive tournament. That in itself is hard to take.

As a conclusion, after all the 2nd and 3rd places this millennium, we want to take the next step and go all the way and considering our squad has improved since the last times, we should be doing better than those times. But sadly the belief in the coach is at an all time low. Nobody here who knows their footy really thinks we'll go to the finals anymore, yet anything but making the finals would be considered a failure. It's a weird situation really. Seems even before the WC has started all we've got left is hope. :P
 

ManniKaltz

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True, the negativity is a bit stupid.

But our point of view is simply that we've come so close these last times...sooooo soooo close, and some of the exits were hard to take. Others were well deserved though.
But from 2002 till 2010 our squads have basically been extremely average. Still we almost managed to go all the way in 2002, 2006, and 2010. Now we've got one of the best squads we've ever had, so from a German perspective it's time to go all the way once again. We know we got better players than all these last times but Löw's mistakes in 2012 (already a great squad and we should've done better) upset a lot of fans. Most of us are now doubtful that we'll make the final because Löw has already been making similarly stupid decisions as in 2012, and our talisman in Reus is injured too. Out of all the players, the one to do something special despite Löw setting up the team in a weird way, is clearly Reus. Now he's out though and it seems like Podolski will once again start. It's comical how with all the talent we've got amongst our squad Podolski will most likely be a starter in his 5th consecutive tournament. That in itself is hard to take.

As a conclusion, after all the 2nd and 3rd places this millennium, we want to take the next step and go all the way and considering our squad has improved since the last times, we should be doing better than those times. But sadly the belief in the coach is at an all time low. Nobody here who knows their footy really thinks we'll go to the finals anymore, yet anything but making the finals would be considered a failure. It's a weird situation really. Seems even before the WC has started all we've got left is hope. :P
I'd agree to a large extent to this summary and like to add that IMHO, the negativity re: Löw stems mainly from the fact that Jogi doesn't leave the public under the impression that he (and the team) learned from his mistakes, seems to have a certain idea for the N11 which does not take into account if we have the players for his idea, and that he doesn't walk his talk in many ways.

Add to that the fact that key players like e.g. Özil more often than not disappoint in "big games", and you have the recipe for German negativity.
 

Balu

Der Fußballgott
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I always had the feeling that Löw didn't respect the great work Klopp and Heynckes did, that's what annoys me the most. Even after Bayern and Dortmund played the CL final, both teams with a strong German core, you still won't hear him say that he could use some of their ideas, build around their tactics. You would hear excuses why it's not possible for him to achieve the same. And after meeting Guardiola, he instantly comes out with a comment that Guardiola told him, his nationalteam plays even better football than the two best German club sides in more than a decade. It's this staggering arrogance, his delusion that he is convinced that the German nationalteam plays more attractive football than those two club sides and it somehow makes up for not winning titles, that makes me so angry. I'm not claiming that Germany is the best nationalteam and expect titles every 2 year, but we don't realise our potential, we don't play to our strengths and it hurts our chances.
 

Cait Sith

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I always had the feeling that Löw didn't respect the great work Klopp and Heynckes did, that's what annoys me the most. Even after Bayern and Dortmund played the CL final, both teams with a strong German core, you still won't hear him say that he could use some of their ideas, build around their tactics.
Löw misses a lot of the indegriends that made Bayern and Dortmund so successful. Personnel-wise he doesn't have the numer 9 whose 4 goals against Real Madrid catapulted Dortmund to the CL final, he doesn't have the wingplay of Ribery and Robben in peak form at his disposal that dissected Barca on the counterattack, he doesn't have Javi Martinez who bullied Iniesta with sheer physicality, he misses Gündogan and Reus due to injury.

If you are talking in terms of tactics that might be a different story, although I don't know how fair it is to blame Löw for not being as good a coach as Klopp. On the other hand he is learning from Guardiola. Midfield general Lahm to the rescue. :D
 

Sphaero

Struggling to explain his genius to the hoi polloi
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Borussia Dortmund
I always had the feeling that Löw didn't respect the great work Klopp and Heynckes did, that's what annoys me the most. Even after Bayern and Dortmund played the CL final, both teams with a strong German core, you still won't hear him say that he could use some of their ideas, build around their tactics. You would hear excuses why it's not possible for him to achieve the same. And after meeting Guardiola, he instantly comes out with a comment that Guardiola told him, his nationalteam plays even better football than the two best German club sides in more than a decade. It's this staggering arrogance, his delusion that he is convinced that the German nationalteam plays more attractive football than those two club sides and it somehow makes up for not winning titles, that makes me so angry. I'm not claiming that Germany is the best nationalteam and expect titles every 2 year, but we don't realise our potential, we don't play to our strengths and it hurts our chances.
Spot on.

I do think that one of Löw´s biggest shortcomings as coach in recent years was the inability to install something, which made several German clubs good teams: a sound pressing system. It is not only the key behind Dortmund´s success, but also one of the main differences between the Bayern side of 2011/2012 and their extremely dominant side one year later. While it was never as agressive as Klopp´s version Heynckes made Bayern a team with the ability to be deadly on the counter, adding to their versatility as team and making it so hard to play against. It goes even further if we look further down the league table with sides like Hannover, Gladbach, Berlin or Augsburg. Pressing has become a trademark of the Bundesliga and normally the national team should reflect that.

It doesn´t, though. Instead we play like a poor version of a Guardiola side, a possession based team without the normal stability in the defense, which should come with this high focus on possession and without the right player material to make it work. I still believe, that a more counter based system like we employed in 2010 would suit the majority of the team more than the current "system" (I don´t know if you can even tell it that, because we have some serious lack of structure in our play), because most offensive players would shine on the counter because of their direct nature.

I don´t have any hopes that we see adjustments, because like Balu said Löw lives in his own delusional world where his often suicidal football is deemed by him as highly entertaining and his spineless nature makes it seem that he does not learn from former mistakes. Has the guy ever taken at least some of the blame for dissapointing results? I don´t think so. Truly great coaches like Guardiola, Klopp or Heynckes were man enough to admit mistakes and even protect their own players. They showed that they realised shortcomings and worked on them. Löw is the absolute opposite. He rather hides behind his players and throws them under the bus to save his own skin.

That began with him mishandling the whole Ballack topic, which turned out disgraceful in the end. Ballack was a controversial character but based on his great contributions to the national team deserved better treatment than he got and this was at least partly down to Löw not having the balls to make a real statement. Schweinsteiger basically came out at the EURO 2012 and admitted he was not fully fit and would not mind being benched. Did Löw listen to his SOS call? Hell no. He rather went into the Italy game with a tactical clusterfeck of a formation and later pinned the majority of the loss on Hummels´ mistake for the 0-1, which was so easily exposed by Klopp as bullshit afterwards, it was not even funny. Don´t even get me started on the public humiliation of Schmelzer some time later.

Joachim Löw shows neither the right character nor skill to be a good national coach. He is simply a man who was in the right place for the right time to immensively profit from the great youth work German clubs did since the beginning of the millenium. Without the steady stream of German top talent Löw would have never stayed as long as coach as he does and it is also this high level of talent in the squad which will allow him to cling on his position a while longer. Germany is simply too good to not get into the KO stages even without good tactics. We won´t make it much further, though.
 

ctp

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I doubt we're going to win it with all the injuries and Löw as coach, but I can't help getting excited for the world cup. Just re-watched the '74 final, too.

2 more days. :drool:
 

JustFootballFan

Thinks Balotelli & Pogba look the same
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Liverpool
I always had the feeling that Löw didn't respect the great work Klopp and Heynckes did, that's what annoys me the most. Even after Bayern and Dortmund played the CL final, both teams with a strong German core, you still won't hear him say that he could use some of their ideas, build around their tactics. You would hear excuses why it's not possible for him to achieve the same. And after meeting Guardiola, he instantly comes out with a comment that Guardiola told him, his nationalteam plays even better football than the two best German club sides in more than a decade. It's this staggering arrogance, his delusion that he is convinced that the German nationalteam plays more attractive football than those two club sides and it somehow makes up for not winning titles, that makes me so angry. I'm not claiming that Germany is the best nationalteam and expect titles every 2 year, but we don't realise our potential, we don't play to our strengths and it hurts our chances.
That sneaky Guardiola. In Berlin he pretends to demonstrate for independence of Catalonia and secretly he helps Spain by feeding Loew BS. He probably also insured Loew that defense is totally overrated and that everybody loves the new (losing) German football.
 

PakRed

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Oct 31, 2012
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9
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Pakistan
Who'd like to see the following team?

Neuer
Boateng--Hummels--Mertesacker--Durm
Lahm-Kroos
Muller--Ozil--Podolski
Gotze

Not a big fan of false 9, but I think Klose will be more effective coming off the bench with 20-30 minutes go.
 

ctp

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Jul 5, 2013
Messages
2,992
Who'd like to see the following team?

Neuer
Boateng--Hummels--Mertesacker--Durm
Lahm-Kroos
Muller--Ozil--Podolski
Gotze

Not a big fan of false 9, but I think Klose will be more effective coming off the bench with 20-30 minutes go.
We've tried and failed with the false nine too many times, neither Götze nor Özil do it very well. Klose or Müller needs to be the striker.

This should be the back five: Neuer; Boateng, Mertesacker, Hummels, Durm. Höwedes just isn't a left back.
Front six is a bit more difficult. I can't come up with a satisfactory two-man midfield from the players who are currently fit. I'm not the biggest fan of Khedira either, but he should be alright with less defensive responsibility in a three-man midfield. Klose is a great player for the national team, but with his age and fitness I don't think he can be relied upon as a starter. This is best team I can come up with at the moment and I hope we start like this:

Neuer
Boateng - Mertesacker - Hummels - Durm
Lahm
Khedira - Kroos
Götze - Müller - Schürrle

*Klose and Podolski with goals from the bench.​
 

ManniKaltz

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Aug 23, 2013
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918
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Kloppoland
Who'd like to see the following team?

Neuer
Boateng--Hummels--Mertesacker--Durm
Lahm-Kroos
Muller--Ozil--Podolski
Gotze

Not a big fan of false 9, but I think Klose will be more effective coming off the bench with 20-30 minutes go.
By and large, I'd agree with the defense line and DM but would bench Özil instead of Schürrle, move Götze on the #10 and put Müller upfront.

And a bit of nitpicking: Hummels usually plays the left CB part; only when he was paired with Friedrich last season, he played 1-2 times the right part IIRC.