Get rid of VAR NOW! We want our game back! (...or not, some are happy)

Discussion in 'Football Forum' started by RedFish, Aug 10, 2019.

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VAR - Love or Hate?

  1. Love it

    59.5%
  2. Hate it

    23.1%
  3. Hate it but will say I love it so I’m not on the same side as ForestRGoinUp

    2.9%
  4. Don’t care

    14.5%
  1. Aug 13, 2019

    Flytan Full Member

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    Dude there's nearly the same amount of fouls+offsides in football as there is penalties in NFL games. That's not killing anything. Not to mention it's entirely on the teams to play by the rules. VAR is needed. In a world where the everyday fan can see a replay and see a blown call, it's a necessity.
  2. Aug 13, 2019

    Revan Assumptionman

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    What if your whole foot is just one-millimeter ahead of the defenders trailing foot? It would be the same complain, the only difference is the reference point is changing.
  3. Aug 13, 2019

    Annihilate Now! ...or later, I'm not fussy Scout

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    Then its less of an issue because a large portion of his foot is ahead anyway. But as I said in a later post, when its that tight it should come down to the linesman's original onfield decision.
  4. Aug 13, 2019

    Revan Assumptionman

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    1) It won't increase IMO.

    2) I would add also the fouls in the last 25m of the pitch, and bad fouls which deserve a yellow card. In both cases (and offsides too), the decision to be made from VAR referee, while the big decisions (penalties, goals and red cards) to be made from the main referee (who watched the incident in the replay).
  5. Aug 13, 2019

    Revan Assumptionman

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    Dunno, to me it looks like just changing the offside rule (which can be done), but it doesn't solve the problem. It will still be a binary decision, and when it is a corner case, people will complain anyway.

    I also don't see why it has to stand to linesman's original decision, when obviously the easiest thing for him to do is to allow the game continue, and then raise the flag in order for VAR to decide. I think that offsides is one of the easiest thing to do right in VAR, cause it is either offside, or not offside. Pens are more problematic cause it is still subjectivity, though now refs have more time to make the correct decisions.
  6. Aug 13, 2019

    Sir Red Devil New Member

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    As I stated in my previous posts I am not against VAR being used to make the decisions in the situations where the resolution of the situation always based on a be subjective decision. (penalty decisions, diving, deliberate handball, yellow and red cards etc.). In situations where you need to determine whether the ball crossed the line or whether the play was offside you need 100% objective decisions. So we came with Goal Line Technology and hopefully in the future we will come up with a solution for an offside problem.

    One common criticism of VAR is that "beacause of it you can't instantly celebrate a goal because you think that the VAR will reverse the decision". I can't agree with that one. I always celebrate the scored goal if I think that the player who scored the goal was onside. For example when Rashford scored United's 3rd goal vs Chelsea I instantly celebrated it because by watching that moment in real time I thought that Rashford was onside. If he head been in offside position the goal wouldn't have been count but does it matter whether the goal would be called of by the linesman rising his flag or by VAR. No difference for me.
  7. Aug 13, 2019

    Annihilate Now! ...or later, I'm not fussy Scout

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    But it's not easy to do right whilst the technology isn't up to scratch for the incredibly tight calls.

    That's why I reckon the play carries on, the goal is scored and if the linesman thinks its offside he raises his flag (and if he doesn't he keeps it down) and then in the VAR check, if its too tight to call (maybe a 5cm margin for error or something) then the decision reverts back to the original linesman decisions. That way you're not altering a "clear and obvious error" as if it's offside/not offside by 5cm then that isn't clear or obvious.
  8. Aug 13, 2019

    UnrelatedPsuedo I pity the poor fool who stinks like I do!

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    I don’t even think that goal line tech has added to the game. It’s improved accuracy and is acceptable as a decision point.

    But it’s also not as accurate as it pretends to be, and the ‘did it or didn’t it cross the line’ is still an objectively better spectacle than ‘let’s look at this faux cartoon representation and check.
  9. Aug 13, 2019

    SilentWitness ShoelessWitness Staff

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    I'd like them to make an announcement as to why the VAR decision has been made so there is complete clarity. Just putting GOAL or NO GOAL etc. still creates a bit of controversy. If you're doing this to cut out that then completely cut it out, don't just half arse it.
  10. Aug 13, 2019

    Revan Assumptionman

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    They should do it, completely agree.
  11. Aug 13, 2019

    ForestRGoinUp New Member

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    They will definitely do it. The referee will be mic’d up to the stadium and take a moment to explain the decision. Don’t watch enough to be sure, but isn’t Germany doing this or working towards this?
  12. Aug 13, 2019

    UnrelatedPsuedo I pity the poor fool who stinks like I do!

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    No time in football for that. That’s more delay
  13. Aug 13, 2019

    sullydnl Ross Kemp's caf ID

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    Agree. One of the unquestionably bad things about VAR from the very start has been how badly they explain their decisions. During the WC I would have been at a loss with many decisions if I wasn't tuned in to various journalists online and even then you had to do some guesswork.

    For example, the idea that a foul on a attacker doesn't count if the attacking team has commited a foul at the same time or before. Unless you explain that the foul wasn't given for that reason people will be perplexed as they might not even notice the attacking team's foul. They'll just see a blatant penalty not given.
  14. Aug 13, 2019

    SilentWitness ShoelessWitness Staff

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    How? You can continue the game with the decision made. Just after the decision is made you explain it in an announcement.
  15. Aug 13, 2019

    SilentWitness ShoelessWitness Staff

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    That's one of the reasons, yeah. I was listening to Sunday Supplement and there was a journo on there basically saying how you'd go into a pub after a game 20 years ago and everyone would be asking you for info about the game. Nowadays you know less about the game by watching it live than you do watching it on TV or in the pub.
  16. Aug 13, 2019

    Vato Watches other men wank.Supports Real.Coincidence?

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    Your posts should come with a dramatic Hans Zimmer tune.
  17. Aug 13, 2019

    Rafaeldagold Full Member

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    Funny quip..well done.

    How about discussing the post though? It’s obviously the road we’re going down, with more incidents being reviewed & VAR CANNOT get quicker- it’s another bloke looking at a replay. You can’t speed that up.

    But of course you can’t discuss the actual point of the post as you’re so pro VAR & entrenched in your view you’ll defend it to the end now regardless
  18. Aug 13, 2019

    Vato Watches other men wank.Supports Real.Coincidence?

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    They should give each team 3 VAR calls instead of reviewing all goals and offsides. That would maybe stop these guys from crying.
  19. Aug 13, 2019

    ForestRGoinUp New Member

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    3 is overkill, but several of us have suggested something along these lines anyway. Far from crying innit, dope.
  20. Aug 13, 2019

    sullydnl Ross Kemp's caf ID

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    Would be interesting to see how a challenge system works in comparison, alright.

    Though the obvious problem with that would be the tactical use of challenges to waste time. You could imagine a lot of 1-0 games ending with a flood VAR challenges on the winning team's part to go along with the usual substitutions and general time wasting.

    Plus while there would be fewer VAR incidents the VAR incidents that do happen would take longer as it would presumably have to be looked at first by the team who may want to challenge it (to decide if it's worthwhile) and then by VAR (to decide if it stands).
  21. Aug 13, 2019

    Annihilate Now! ...or later, I'm not fussy Scout

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    Well you'd say they can only be for certain things (Penalties / Red Cards / Goals / Free kicks within 30 yards of your goal) so they can't just try challenge a corner or random foul or something like that.
  22. Aug 13, 2019

    Vato Watches other men wank.Supports Real.Coincidence?

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    True, but now they throw themselves to the floor instead. Maybe they need to be stricter on time wasting and penalise players faster for it.
  23. Aug 13, 2019

    sullydnl Ross Kemp's caf ID

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    How do you stop a team from claiming that any challenge is a potential red card challenge in that scenario though?

    Even if it is quickly dismissed out of hand it's still another break in momentum. Imagine three of them in injury time along with a substitution or whatever.....
  24. Aug 13, 2019

    Vato Watches other men wank.Supports Real.Coincidence?

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    This aswell.

    Anyway, I'm sure they'll iron the issues out of it in time, to try and keep everyone happy.
  25. Aug 13, 2019

    sullydnl Ross Kemp's caf ID

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    It would certainly be worth trying out in some random cup competition to see how it works. I wonder if they ever said what their thinking was in opting against a challenge system? There presumably must be some reason nobody has tried it.
  26. Aug 13, 2019

    VeevaVee despite the protests, wears Ugg boots Scout

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    There's no need for "VAR complete"
  27. Aug 13, 2019

    Mrs Smoker Full Member

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    Probably talked about in these 20+ pages, but is it weird to not completely trust the VAR with these minuscule offsides? Tech is not that good yet to determine when the pass was made and to calculate distances of attackers and defenders from that exact moment?
  28. Aug 13, 2019

    Annihilate Now! ...or later, I'm not fussy Scout

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    No it's perfectly valid and fair criticism. When you account for frame rate and human error, the technology isn't yet good enough
  29. Aug 13, 2019

    limerickcitykid There once was a kid from Toronto...

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    That will never happen. The whole concept of offside relies on drawing a line. You can't just allow the referee to decide what offside is and isn't on a whim as they feel fit. All that would do is bring the game into disrepute. If you think complaints about offside are bad now, the whole place would be a complete shit show if refs just chose what is offside whenever they feel like. Thankfully that will never be voted into use.
  30. Aug 13, 2019

    golden_blunder Site admin. Manchester United fan Staff

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    It’s all becoming a bit too sanitized for my liking. Nothing wrong with “play to the whistle” in my opinion.
  31. Aug 13, 2019

    montpelier Full Member

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    I have to say, until you get bogged down in the tedious, wanting everything to be right, detail all of the time. This seems like quite a good post to me.

    I almost dread to say - being like, really opposed - but it's amost getting into the 'challenge' territory - where you leave it like it is, but the absolute rubbish is scrubbed out. OK, I don't actually believe that, but it was the original aim, I think.
  32. Aug 13, 2019

    montpelier Full Member

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    I don't see that there is an argument that says OLD is better than NEW here, really. If you use it for anything, offside is first choice for me. Same for both sides etc etc.
  33. Aug 14, 2019 at 11:55

    KB3D New Member

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    1)Decrease because refs will get used to it. Future players will grow up with VAR. Because of that defending will change, strikers also will change because they can't play the way Inzaghi for instance played. He was offside allot and would get away with it sometimes, so it was worth the risk. There will be less diving because it will not be rewarded.
    VAR itself will also be fine-tuned over time.

    People focus allot on how refs and players deal with VAR in the transition period, and are not taking into account how it will influence refereeing, coaching and young players development in the game with VAR present.

    2) Only game changing decisions.
  34. Aug 14, 2019 at 23:00

    starman Full Member

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    VAR art thou? :confused:[​IMG]
  35. Aug 14, 2019 at 23:15

    sullydnl Ross Kemp's caf ID

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    VAR doesn't check whether the keeper stays on the line.
  36. Aug 14, 2019 at 23:22

    starman Full Member

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    That's been confirmed for PL games but not European as far I know...
  37. Aug 14, 2019 at 23:24

    bleedred Full Member

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    Why not?
  38. Aug 14, 2019 at 23:25

    duffer Sensible and not a complete jerk like most oppo's Scout

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    It would make far too much sense.
  39. Aug 14, 2019 at 23:27

    sullydnl Ross Kemp's caf ID

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    No idea. I'm pretty sure they did in some other tournaments so maybe it was just too finicky?
  40. Aug 14, 2019 at 23:27

    bleedred Full Member

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    And that's the point me and many are trying to make. If you pick and choose on what to use technology for and leave gaps, then this whole point about making the game fairer makes no sense.