Do you seriously think they'd purposely feck with their cash cow and risk it tanking just to annoy FIFA?
Get rid of VAR NOW! We want our game back! (...or not, some are happy)
- Thread starter RedFish
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran hold a long overdue conversation about United's awful league form with 1 win in 7. They discuss a disappointing draw at Bournemouth, a not so disappointing draw against Liverpool and a crushing defeat at Chelsea - Is time nearly over for Erik Ten Hag?
Then in a special second half of the pod, Nik welcomes Natalie ( https://twitter.com/natalie_17) to discuss the fortunes of Manchester United Women as they booked a place in the FA Cup Final after a historic first ever win vs. Chelsea.
Ok ok, you’re more irate than me
I’ll edit to add.I think that’s ridiculous if var see it’s offside and still play theoffside free kick after checking
Yea, you think everything is ridiculous. We know.
I think var is, yes
Ironic cheers at the City game once that perfectly legitimate 1st goal was reviewed and allowed, anybody who cannot see how much VAR had negatively affected the game and fan experience is delusional or obsessed with excessive scrutiny on what were basic rules.
The explosive emotion when a goal is scored is simply the very essence of what makes this game special. It's the moment where all the tribalism and rivalry from each set of fans comes pouring out, it's quite literally the best feeling you can have as a fan. Nothing, I repeat Nothing, should be allowed to affect or dampen that.
If you remove emotion the game becomes sterile.
The question that needs to be asked is; do we want the brilliant fast paced unadulterated version we know and love - or do we want to stick with this sterile, emotionally detached version of the game.
To be clear I'm not advocating breaking the rules in order to improve the entertainment of the game. What I'm saying is that whatever people thought of the officiating prior to VAR, nothing that happened previously warranted this.
Is this a sport for us to be entertained... I don't find much entertainment in this.
The explosive emotion when a goal is scored is simply the very essence of what makes this game special. It's the moment where all the tribalism and rivalry from each set of fans comes pouring out, it's quite literally the best feeling you can have as a fan. Nothing, I repeat Nothing, should be allowed to affect or dampen that.
If you remove emotion the game becomes sterile.
The question that needs to be asked is; do we want the brilliant fast paced unadulterated version we know and love - or do we want to stick with this sterile, emotionally detached version of the game.
To be clear I'm not advocating breaking the rules in order to improve the entertainment of the game. What I'm saying is that whatever people thought of the officiating prior to VAR, nothing that happened previously warranted this.
Is this a sport for us to be entertained... I don't find much entertainment in this.
Not complaining today, won $800 from that late Palace goal
Long live VAR!
Long live VAR!
If nothing else it should be used just for offside. It's the only way to accurately decide if a goal is offside or not.
Well, then as I said, a lot of these referees genuinely just don't understand the game then. I know that's a bit of a cliché but it's true
VAR is just highlighting this, I don't blame VAR.
There's so many of these offside goals getting overturned that anyone with even a basic understanding of the game would just not get involved with.
An IFAB representative politely tried to hint at this a few days ago that the premiership refs are over-using VAR when it comes to offside.
Then they go and overrule that Villa goal today because someone's heel was offside about two phases before the goal went in.
Think about it, the offside rule was brought in to stop players from gaining an unfair advantage.
How on earth is someone gaining an advantage when
(a) they are facing away from the goal for a start.
(b) the offside was millimetres and therefore irrelevant in my opinion.
and
(c) nothing even came from it, it had literally no influence on the goal, about 1000 things happened afterwards.
If some of these refs don't possess the common sense to just not get involved with incidents like this (there's been many others too obviously) then they shouldn't be officiating over the biggest game in the world, it's as simple as that.
Problem is consistency. Here you have a normal penalty decision, and VAR is supposed to overturn any decision that is wrong. If the ref doesn't miss the penalty here, they wouldn't overturn it, because it is a penalty. If the ref miss to spot it, you simply have to give the penalty.
Oliver behind a tv-screen decided not to do it. In a few weeks I'm certain we will see a ref be fooled to give a soft penalty and VAR will choose to not intervene.
If VAR is not supposed to overturn wrong decisions so the ref who made the decision can maintain authority or whatever, then even if you apply that consistently, it only assures inconsistent decisions.
Thats a pen all day long. Nowhere near the ball.
Thankfully someone in the media talking sense. I’m missing something if that isn’t a penalty. If that was given none of the people saying it wasn’t, would be saying it wasn’t.
It’s just a blatant penalty
Yes. Dendoncker made a mistake, Williams capitalised on it. The only way for Dendoncker to not make a penalty arriving that late, is if he doesn't go in for the tackle and puts his bets on Williams diving. But he didn't do that, because Williams would be through on goal if Dendoncker didn't try to make it hard for him with that recovery tackle.
There is no way anyone can say that isn't a penalty with a straight face, but if they do it is because the lines have been blurred to the extent this is possible. There aren't supposed to be different rules for teams who "deserve" a good decision and those who are perceived to not "be that lucky".
I don't know how people already seem to have forgotten about the terrible years of refereeing previous to VAR. Huge mistake every week. It's one of the reasons we now have VAR. It has been shit refereeing for a long time. They should start from scratch imo. Offer top dollar and target lower league footballers and younger athletes, design a program that teaches them everything they need to know and trains them specifically for the PL. Design more systems that ensures consistency when applying the rules with the use of VAR and let these younger ones control the games with the help of further technology and a VAR which doesn't completely suck.
would this have been given a penalty if it was pool?
It does look like the ref is communicating with VAR on the microphone, and going by the fact he didn't give a penalty, when reading his lips it looks like he says "He got the ball there". It makes sense that he told them what he saw, and that he was in doubt, also seems that way by his posture when telling our players that VAR is looking at it.
The thing here now is that Oliver with his bias, behind a screen fooled the system. The ref was insecure about if Dendondocker got the ball so he happily let VAR review it, Oliver probably had to lie and confirm the defender got the ball to make the decision stand.
What a corrupt mess.
The thing here now is that Oliver with his bias, behind a screen fooled the system. The ref was insecure about if Dendondocker got the ball so he happily let VAR review it, Oliver probably had to lie and confirm the defender got the ball to make the decision stand.
What a corrupt mess.I have to honestly admit: I was a fan of VAR, always thought it would make soccer better, but I have finally come to the conclusion that I want it gone.
VAR is exactly what many of us expected it to be. This was always going to be the outcome and I don't see it getting much better any time soon.
The wrong decisions and talking points before VAR were part of what made the game so great. The banter in work after beating your rival after an offside goal was brilliant.
VAR is killing football. It's hard to watch now.
The wrong decisions and talking points before VAR were part of what made the game so great. The banter in work after beating your rival after an offside goal was brilliant.
VAR is killing football. It's hard to watch now.
and thats the problem with these offside measurings. There's no room for common sense, which makes offsides extremely rigid.
I don't understand how some games in this round of the cup can be allowed to have VAR (13 I think) but not all. Obviously not all lower league grounds are set up for it but surely it should be all games or none.
What if one team goes through with a blatantly missed offside goal in one game and a potentially match-winning goal in another fixture gets disallowed for a millimetre offside decision that takes 5 minutes and repeated inspection to even detect?
What if one team goes through with a blatantly missed offside goal in one game and a potentially match-winning goal in another fixture gets disallowed for a millimetre offside decision that takes 5 minutes and repeated inspection to even detect?
Why does Michael Oliver always get behind VAR for our games? He's a massive prick. Gives us absolutely feck all whether it be behind VAR or if he is the actual referee.
But I was under the impression VAR was brought in to make the game fairer and to ensure the correct result prevails. And for that reason it was worth putting up with the delays and the crowd not knowing what’s going on.
But it's not worth it if the decision is still open to the interpretation of popssibly "biased" officials, not black and white. Also it surely has to be in operation for all games in any given competition, or none. Not just some games.
I totally agree with you
VAR can work and it largely does in other leagues what I can see.
Having again watched 3 La Liga games in the last couple of days can't recall a single issue with it. All checks were done quickly and without controversy.
What we have here, is the premier league implementing a different version of VAR to everywhere else. No use of the monitors, so it's basically VR and the referee on the pitch is completely undermined. There is also a forensic approach to offside decisions, which is only applied in certain games, that is not being done by the other leagues.
You will see in certain premier league games they spend 5 minutes on an offside to check every angle, then a different game (Liverpool v City earlier in the season springs to mind), they don't bother carefully checking close offsides at all and just let the game go.
Total shambles, Riley and whoever is head of VAR needs to be sacked!
Having again watched 3 La Liga games in the last couple of days can't recall a single issue with it. All checks were done quickly and without controversy.
What we have here, is the premier league implementing a different version of VAR to everywhere else. No use of the monitors, so it's basically VR and the referee on the pitch is completely undermined. There is also a forensic approach to offside decisions, which is only applied in certain games, that is not being done by the other leagues.
You will see in certain premier league games they spend 5 minutes on an offside to check every angle, then a different game (Liverpool v City earlier in the season springs to mind), they don't bother carefully checking close offsides at all and just let the game go.
Total shambles, Riley and whoever is head of VAR needs to be sacked!
I changed my vote. Unless it is used for all types of decisions it's a waste of time. Clear penalties are not being given for fouls while goals are being ruled out for ridiculous offsides.
offside is extremely rigid though, theres no need for common sense, theres no gray areas in there, you’re either onside or offside
there seems to be some belief growing among some fans and some aspects of the media that there should be some kind of leeway given to the attacker if its a close one, it would be totally ridiculous to do something like that, imagine the meltdown from a team being relegated due to a goal scored by a player being offside by a kneecap, armpit or big toe if the goal stood because it was a closecall
Why are they ridiculous?
Oliver is ONE of the MANY who don't love us so i was waiting for him to say NO PEN!
But then if our name was LiVARpool then it would have been SURELY given.
Unfortunately Williams doesn't know how to dive like Mane and Salah.
Like the one the other day where his heel was offside.
its offside though
So the benefit to the attacking player doesn't matter anymore? It used to be the attacker trying to gain a clear advantage.
I don't watch too much football outside United and other big games, but from what you're saying, why don't the P.L use the VAR version that is seemingly better and comes with less controversy?
Any regular watchers of La Liga / bundesliga, who knows how those leagues have revisioned their VAR systems after the season has ended?
What have they done different from season to season in the way they use it? Not sure I'll ever be a fan, but would be nice to know what is (or isn't) next.
I still think it's way too slow, especially in the dying minutes where pressure is applied and teams should crack down while running on their pumps. Basically how Fergie won many of our games. Opponents instead get pauses to cope with pressure because of VAR getting checked before a corner / a new potentially dangerous situation could appear. The ref's have to do it, because what if the game goes on, and a new VAR situation pops up, but an incorrect situation seconds before is not VARed? On top of that, I guess the men in the VAR booth can't check multiple situations in a very short time.
What have they done different from season to season in the way they use it? Not sure I'll ever be a fan, but would be nice to know what is (or isn't) next.
I still think it's way too slow, especially in the dying minutes where pressure is applied and teams should crack down while running on their pumps. Basically how Fergie won many of our games. Opponents instead get pauses to cope with pressure because of VAR getting checked before a corner / a new potentially dangerous situation could appear. The ref's have to do it, because what if the game goes on, and a new VAR situation pops up, but an incorrect situation seconds before is not VARed? On top of that, I guess the men in the VAR booth can't check multiple situations in a very short time.
It's supposed to be used for clear and obvious decisions. Not for borderline offsides like that players heel being offside in the Villa match the other week.
I never wanted it in the first place but was intrigued to see how it would work when it was implemented. They need to get rid of it, it's ruining football. It's taking away the raw emotion from players and fans when a goal is scored.
It was supposed to take away the talking point from controversial decisions but instead it's made it worse because now we're talking about crappy lines being drawn and the fans not knowing what's going on inside the stadiums.
I never wanted it in the first place but was intrigued to see how it would work when it was implemented. They need to get rid of it, it's ruining football. It's taking away the raw emotion from players and fans when a goal is scored.
It was supposed to take away the talking point from controversial decisions but instead it's made it worse because now we're talking about crappy lines being drawn and the fans not knowing what's going on inside the stadiums.
Do you really have to ask that question?
You don’t know that though, you’re just happy to take the freeze frame at face value when the technology is not clear enough to do that.
Offside is offside yes I agree, in a computer game, real life and speed and frame rates doesn’t agree with you though
Because it takes 5 minutes and a use of couple of bad resolution stills to draw a line in MS Paint somewhere on the armpit or not who knows. It sometimes looks like they are trying to find a way to call it. If you are in doubt look at the goal VAR took away from Burn for Brighton v Bournemouth there isn't a chance in hell to tell if the line drawn should be mm to the left or right.
They constantly made adjustments in Germany, not always waiting for the season to end - the winter break in particular is a natural moment for this also. Some of them as big as how to handle offside calls or when sideline monitors were to use, sometimes it's more subtle instruction on how to handle certain situations.
I don't have statistics so these are my very own and very subjective impressions, but I would say that VAR interventions take significantly longer in England and are more obvious to the eye, as the games are taking a clear "var break", while I think in Bundesliga referees are more able to contain background reviews to the natural breaks of play (e.g. both teams setting up for a corner).
Regarding offsides they also seem to be a lot more eager to find millimeter offsides.
that was never actually part of the offside law, neither was the whole "daylight" thing
Michael Oliver the first English ref to go over to the VAR monitor, then sent off the Palace captain, rightly, for an incident against Derby
Another howler. Lacazette kicks a player deliberately off the ball. VAR check. Nothing.
All VAR is doing is highlighting the sheer incompetence of our referees.
All VAR is doing is highlighting the sheer incompetence of our referees.