Getting rid of the negative influences

Devil81

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Martial, Lingard, Shaw, Pogba and Matic, all have a piss poor attitude or behave in a manner that doesn't bestow our football club.

I don't believe Sir Alex would have signed any of the named players and if he did they'd have been shipped long before now.
 

lysglimt

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It's just a convenient way to create a narrative that Ole has achieved something (intagiable and most likely non existent), and at the same time deflect from the real issues.

We have grit and fighting spirit under LVG and Mourinho although at times when belief sapped away as with all teams in such circumstances, we didn't. This is nothing new.
No what we had under those two were probably fear - but not the positive fear which we had under Ferguson (where players admitted they were scared of letting him down) - under LvG and Mourinho the players were scared of being thrown under the bus, thrown out of the club because the manager decided he didn't like you (rather than based on quality)

It works for a while - players worked their socks off in periods - until they decided I don't want to be part of this anymore and stopped caring and decided to run down their contract or at least not sign a new until the manager was gone.
 

Son

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Martial, Lingard, Shaw, Pogba and Matic, all have a piss poor attitude or behave in a manner that doesn't bestow our football club.

I don't believe Sir Alex would have signed any of the named players and if he did they'd have been shipped long before now.
Matic and Pogba are more dismayed how bad our club is atm. I’d never scapegoat Pogba for effort he puts a shift in every time he plays.

Matic was quality in his first season for us but has slowed down and then been mismanaged like Lukaku was since. Sir Alex would know how to use him better that’s the difference so he wouldn’t feel the need to revolt.
 

amolbhatia50k

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No what we had under those two were probably fear - but not the positive fear which we had under Ferguson (where players admitted they were scared of letting him down) - under LvG and Mourinho the players were scared of being thrown under the bus, thrown out of the club because the manager decided he didn't like you (rather than based on quality)

It works for a while - players worked their socks off in periods - until they decided I don't want to be part of this anymore and stopped caring and decided to run down their contract or at least not sign a new until the manager was gone.
Oh yeah, and Ole has really introduced pure passion and fighting spirit. What a load of nonsense. Sir Alex also ruled by fear (positive fear is such arbitrary term). Obviously he wasn't the twat that Mourinho was. But regardless, both LVG and Mourinho instilled a fighting spirit within the club that probably wasn't there under Moyes. LVG did it less through negativity but either way , it was there. And it's still there under Ole. Difference being obviously that Ole can't get a tune out of his team that the previous two unsuccessful managers at times definitely did.
 

James Ward

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Need to make a scapegoat out of Lingard, I'd sell him to a conference team and give them 500 million for taking him.
 

momo83

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I've seen this line trotted out so many times when it comes to the supposed "cultural reset" Ole is overseeing. Here's one instance:

And of course, after the Sheffield game where Ole backed up the players saying there was no question about their desire or attitude, just after saying Sheffield looked like they wanted it more. He also said his team believed less in its game plan than Sheffield did theirs (pretty damning of both players and manager). Adding that last season we would have imploded.
Last season we beat PSG. Can anyone seeing this team do the same? Herrera, the most Man Utd personality of a player that we had has left.
Honestly, I think it’s just Marketing jargon used to shut people up. What other club uses these type of phrases? Other clubs just do.

Look at the area where the club is successful business... does it make up random meaningless phrases and keep saying what it’s going to to do or does it just do it.
 

OleTheGreat

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For the love of God, do not tell me that Ole is a negative influence. He's trying everything in his power, albeit very limited. The man is trying to improve this team but getting out deadwood and bringing in fresh players either from the academy or otherwise to actually build a future for our club. Something that none of our managers post SAF did. LVG added some good players to this team but he also added a lot of mediocre players and so did Jose but i think Ole knows what he's doing. He may not be a tactical genius but what do you expect from a manager who took charge of Molde. This is a learning curve for both Ole and us but i think we are heading in the right direction.

We do not play good football but players in our squad will begin to reform once we have some more depth and quality in our squad. Even if we decide to sack Ole this weekend and appoint Poch, not much will change this season. I'm pretty sure about that. Poch is a fantastic manager but i do not think for one sec that Ole is not working out. He's been great but results will actually decide his tenure going forward. I hope we turn up against Spurs and City and get something out of these games because I personally want things to work out for him and we'll get better when our mid-field and attack gets sorted out.
 

lysglimt

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Oh yeah, and Ole has really introduced pure passion and fighting spirit. What a load of nonsense. Sir Alex also ruled by fear (positive fear is such arbitrary term). Obviously he wasn't the twat that Mourinho was. But regardless, both LVG and Mourinho instilled a fighting spirit within the club that probably wasn't there under Moyes. LVG did it less through negativity but either way , it was there. And it's still there under Ole. Difference being obviously that Ole can't get a tune out of his team that the previous two unsuccessful managers at times definitely did.
You were saying ?
 

SweetRightFoot

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Difference being obviously that Ole can't get a tune out of his team that the previous two unsuccessful managers at times definitely did.
And what tune was that? LVG's death by a thousand passes or Mourinho sending out anti - footballers like Fellaini and Lukaku week in, week out?
 

amolbhatia50k

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And what tune was that? LVG's death by a thousand passes or Mourinho sending out anti - footballers like Fellaini and Lukaku week in, week out?
It wasnt a great tune and failed to make the charts. But they did achieve something like top 4 and the odd trophy. Sadly Ole doesn't look like he'll even get that far (which isn't good enough either).
 

mariachi-19

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I may be the devil, but i'm not a monster
It wasnt a great tune and failed to make the charts. But they did achieve something like top 4 and the odd trophy. Sadly Ole doesn't look like he'll even get that far (which isn't good enough either).
Im sick to death of posters referencing getting top 4 likes it something to be proud of. Top four or not, I would rather see progress as a club and as a team. Until we are challenging for silverware, top four is the least of our worries.

Its like Mourinho coming second that one year... is second something to be proud of? You think Sir Alex or Sir Matt would be proud of finishing second?

Its fecking embarassing. I would rather be in our current situation and know that we're not good enough, than brag about finishing fecking second.
 

amolbhatia50k

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Im sick to death of posters referencing getting top 4 likes it something to be proud of. Top four or not, I would rather see progress as a club and as a team. Until we are challenging for silverware, top four is the least of our worries.

Its like Mourinho coming second that one year... is second something to be proud of? You think Sir Alex or Sir Matt would be proud of finishing second?

Its fecking embarassing. I would rather be in our current situation and know that we're not good enough, than brag about finishing fecking second.
Oh I am not proud of Mourinho's time as our manager. Nor LVG's. They were both unsuccessful and ultimately disappointing Manchester United managers. But they were still much better than Ole on account of being better managers (despite being past their prime). That says more about Ole than it does them.
 

Ancient Of Days

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I made a post about this yesterday which is probably where the idea of this thread came from.

There's nought wrong with the goal of improving the culture and mentality of the club.

The problem is when soundbites such as ''working hard to improve the culture'' is used as a crutch to justify the manager's time here over results and performance.

Intangible themes such as culture, ''rebuild' removing ''deadwood'' has come to define the positives of Ole's tenure here.

Much of it overplayed as it is hardly as if we had a bunch of players who were constantly out drinking, going AOWL or consistently having bad discipline on the pitch or we were seeing things that haven't happened at other clubs such as the team losing morale after losing faith in the manager.

I can't think of many players in the last few years that has been a big issue.

The only exceptions you could argue who have caused problems off the pitch are Pogba(even though this is stirred up and overplayed by a media with an agenda) Di Maria and arguably Lukaku who had made it known he wished to leave after clearly not being in the manager's plans. 2 players in the last several years can you pinpoint for a fact who have caused marginal problems

Now its been the narrative and myth that the foreign players only come here for a good time to play for money, when I look back at the players we signed post Fergie, all of them tried their best and some obviously didn't work out due to not being able to fit into a particlar system, or a number of other factors but the last thing it was down to was having a bad attitude or bringing some unwanted cultural habit that infested the club.

Which is why I find it very distasteful for Ole to be making claims about building a new culture and proganganda about the culture being rotten and the remedy for this reboot is to exclusively target British Talent, as if they are infallible and more professional than their foreign counterparts.

Of course they are often more loyal to the cause since it stands to reason that not many are brave enough to test their talents abroad and are comfortable at home in a familiar environment. However more often than not more susceptible to ill discipline, poor attitude and a penchant for the good time lifestyle off the pitch.

We've already seen it with the likes of Lingard and Rashford, two players who Ole' sees as his own sons. Luke Shaw, Wayne Rooney are other culprits who have not brought a beneficial example to the rest of the team off the pitch, with their tendencies to abuse their bodies.

The truth is the culture was not terrible we just had a few players who were overstaying their welcome, past their best, or had their mind set on a moves as they had bigger ambitions.

That's not a cultural problem, that is a player problem.

Spurs has a team with players with a similar problem but they don't need a cultural reboot. They just needed to sell those players or get a manager who the players wanted to play for.

The same with this rebuild transitional rubbish. The squad Ole took over didn't needed to be cut down and rebuilt. It simply needed additions and a manager capable of coaching them how to play as a unit and grant the ones who wished to leave

Ironically the biggest cultural problem within the club is the old boy class of 92 network where coaches players and staff are rewarded based on sentiment even if they are unqualified for their roles meanwhile stuck on a rigid belief system that the club can only move forward in one direction, and that is by recreating the old way's under Sir Alex.