Depends on who goes and who comes in. Until this window closes I could not predict, but we certainly need more changes.
Good enough for top 4 next season?
- Thread starter Zlatattack
- Start date
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran hold a long overdue conversation about United's awful league form with 1 win in 7. They discuss a disappointing draw at Bournemouth, a not so disappointing draw against Liverpool and a crushing defeat at Chelsea - Is time nearly over for Erik Ten Hag?
Then in a special second half of the pod, Nik welcomes Natalie ( https://twitter.com/natalie_17) to discuss the fortunes of Manchester United Women as they booked a place in the FA Cup Final after a historic first ever win vs. Chelsea.
Honestly how?
Better keeper? No
Better RB? Debatable
Better CB's? Again Debatable
Better LB? No
Better number 6? No
Better number 8? No
Better 'other' CM? Yes
Better LW? No
Better CF? No
Better RW? Maybe
Basically other than Kante none of their players get in our side although some would argue Willian on the RW would be better than Lingard
As it stands: No.
I think with Arsenal being Arsenal and Chelsea losing Hazard, replacing him with an inferior player and having a transfer ban, we should hopefully be ok for Top 4 but make no mistake, under normal circumstances I'd be putting us 5th or 6th with the incomings we've got and the lack of moving out the deadwood.
With Arsenal and Chelsea slightly falling behind , I'd say we have a fair chance at top four . But we cannot afford to be slacking at all considering Leicester and Wolves are going to be right on our tails for top 6. Gotta win those games against bottom 5 for sure.
I see Arsenal struggling too, morale must be really low and you look at leadership in that team and it's non-existent (to be fair you could say the same about us). I don't think Wolves will do as well either this season.
I honestly think we might make top 4 by default
I do wonder if the other big teams outside of Liverpool, City and maybe Spurs will struggle again with the lower teams. The end of last season was embarrassingly bad for the race for top 4. No one fecking wanted it.Let's not forget we're capable of stringing a good run of wins together, as shown after Ole's takeover. We had a freakishly poor end to the season for multiple reasons, but clearly, we have the talent to achieve the points provided tactics and mentality are right.
Fancy swapping with Chelsea's attack? Thought not!
No if we are going in thinking Rashford will be our striker, with Lukaku also playing as striker or RW.
We need an attacker or 2.
We need an attacker or 2.
I do believe we need better CB, but our CB are not that bad.
At start of last season Jose cry lots about wanting new CB, and when he didn't get he put our CB situation in auto destroy mode just to make his point.
When Ole started managing our CB look not that bad until DDG lost his form.
This is just so exaggerated though. This is why we get mad when we lose games we 'should' be winning - overrating our own players.
Jorginho is better than all our deep midfielders, by a lot if we're just going by last years' form, Azpilicueta is at least as good as AWB, Rudiger is definitely better than at least 4 of our centre backs, Willian is miles ahead of any of our players are RW, and as much as it pains me to say it, so is Pedro and Pulisic...
Not to mention Kepa outperformed DDG last season - there's a reason they finished 4th and won the Europa League while we finished 6th and miles off a trophy... I think they'll be shit next year but player by player, it's really not like we're clearly ahead of them and to say so is pretty far from realistic to be honest.
Is McTominay and Fred really better than RLC, Barkley or especially Kovacic? Because they've never shown it in the PL at least.
He says and then over exaggerates how good Jorginho is in the very next sentence
Not sure about worse no 6 & no 8. Rudiger, Kante, Jorginho would have walk over in our XI.
Well I already said Kante would so I'll dismiss that one
Rudiger yes, Luiz no
Jorginho highly debatable
Jorginho highly debatable? Are you serious? You are overrating Matic & Fred way too much. Let’s not be suck in into the media who criticised Sarri style relied on Jorginho, Jorginho is still a top player. I would love to see both Jorginho & Kante with Pogba in midfield 3. Massive upgrade.
As you are with Jorginho
Easily good enough for the top 4 as long as injuries don't devestate
Nope, you are thinking in a wrong way.
I have issue with Fred & Matic. There are many things wrong with Fred & Matic. I would love to have midfielder who is great passer than looking at our current midfielder who give the ball away too much. Nothing overrated there, play him next to someone who offer good in defensively like Kante or Herrera it will compliment his weakness. I’m just talking fact.
Not sure what’s your issue with Jorginho, feel free to tell me.
Good enough for top 4? Maybe. I don't know.
Good enough? Not by a longshot.
Good enough? Not by a longshot.
The issue might be that he absolutely seems to need a very spesific system to be the player you seem to view him as. Nothing he showed last season would elevate him over Matic. Even though I don’t really rate Matic (Fred even less).
We are about 4 incomes away from being even close to challenging. At this point it's the exact same squad who finished horrendously minus Herrera plus AWB and James. Still no CB, still no RW, still no AM, still no solid box to box or DM. We are actually heading towards a new season with Sir Jese Lingard being our RW yet again...
What we need is someone who can play the ball from the back because we have none, that’s the real issue here.
Jorginho is type of those player. Jorginho is not just a deep playmaker but also can take away Pogba’s burden in creativity. I can’t count how many chances Chelsea’s attackers missed from his passing last season.
Four weeks to the first game then and how are we looking.
No centre mid signed and fighting hard to keep pogba.
Longstaff looks difficult, lemina could well be a plant to smoke newcastle out(that isn't working), so as it stands we'll have to start every game with at least one of mctom fred or perreria.
Maguire has gone very quiet. Just like last year.
No right winger signed.
Trying to ship Lukaku out and you wonder if we're going to try and replace him.
Looking difficult.
No centre mid signed and fighting hard to keep pogba.
Longstaff looks difficult, lemina could well be a plant to smoke newcastle out(that isn't working), so as it stands we'll have to start every game with at least one of mctom fred or perreria.
Maguire has gone very quiet. Just like last year.
No right winger signed.
Trying to ship Lukaku out and you wonder if we're going to try and replace him.
Looking difficult.
the truth is, with what we have are we as good as
City
Liverpool
Spurs
Chelsea
Arsenal
answer for me at the moment is, would be a real struggle to finish above any of those
the worrying question is are we better than
Wolves
Everton
Leicester
only time will tell , we need to start moving in the transfer market soon .
City
Liverpool
Spurs
Chelsea
Arsenal
answer for me at the moment is, would be a real struggle to finish above any of those
the worrying question is are we better than
Wolves
Everton
Leicester
only time will tell , we need to start moving in the transfer market soon .
Based on everything you've said there I'm convinced you haven't seen Jorginho play for Chelsea as not only is he guilty of everything you say Matic and Fred are (at this point I'll point out I dont rate Matic or Fred either) but he also brings nothing that you say he does
Jorginho is so easy to nullify we could even get away with putting Mata on him last season, he plays safe 5 yard sideways balls and any time he tried to do something penetrative he over plays it. He might look good in Italy with all the time on the world but in the PL he's completely and utterly useless
Maybe you’re right. I’d not have opted for Jorginho though. He doesn’t seem as press-resistant as a top player in his position should be, imo (of that particular type). A lot of the time he just turns and passes back for support. While the masters of that position traditionally, found productive ways out of trouble. Just my opinion of course, and I’ve mostly seen him for Chelsea.
Edit: What @charlenefan said
You made me laugh. I’m not going to waste my time on someone who just make assumption and it’s still wrong.Do you genuinely think we're 4 new players away from being close to challenging for top 4?
He’s obviously not a master but his passing ability would have improve us greatly which what we are lacking at the moment. Pair him with someone like Kante and you got good top 4 midfield quality contender. Our current midfield are out of the league.
If we keep Pogba I think so.
As things stand we are looking at finishing behind Everton and Wolves. We need 4 more players to challenge for top 4.
How's it an assumption when I've seen it with my own eyes? Jog on then I dont really want to waste my time with you either
No, I just said it trying to be funny.
Liverpool, City, Spurs are going to finish top 3 almost guaranteed. Us, Chelsea, Arsenal will probably fight for 4th and with this current squad I really hate to say it we will finish 5th at best.
This window was/is an ideal opportunity to make significant signings and really make a strong surge at the top 4.
Liverpool & City will only be lightly involved in the transfer market, Chelsea have their ban, Arsenal have no money, so really there should be far less competition for new players, but so far, we really haven't taken advantage of the circumstances, and we will really need to get a shift on and get some quality players signed.
Even as it is we have a chance ! Arsenal are shambles, Chelsea lost hazard, we improved massively our rb and brought a promising winger. Last year we just missed out partly due to some DeGea blunder. Thats another thing, if De Gea signs he will regain all focus and be nos 1 again. Also, I seriously believe we will sign 2 more players, a cm and a cb, if those signing will be good we can even push spurs for 3rd
I'd ordinarily agree, but being in Europa League under a unproven manager was never going to be a good sell to prospective signings. This summer was always going to be a slog, especially since Woodward briefed everyone we had £200m to spend, etc and just played in to selling clubs' hands. I just hope with the improved fitness and more time to work on tactics, that we see a return to the Utd that first came to light under Ole. If we don't buy anyone else, then I'd hope the likes of Greenwood, Gomes, Chong, Garner et al get their chances to really cement themselves in the squad and be a surprise package in the race for Top 4.
I was referring to you making assumption of me haven’t seen Jorginho.
I would say 4 new players could make us a top 3 team. But they'd have to include a cm, RW and CD.
I love Ole but what would be the point of keeping him if we don't?
I'd say with the right coaching we're just about better than Arsenal and Chelsea.