Good enough for top 4 next season?

Discussion in 'Transfer Forum' started by Zlatattack, Jul 3, 2019.

  1. Jul 13, 2019

    Scroto Baggins Full Member

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    Spurs played towards the end of the season with some 18y/o academy player called Skip and Danny Rose in midfield because they had no one else. They have added Ndombele and whilst it may take him a year to settle chances are he is better than some 18y/o academy player. Whereas our best midfielder wants out and we are going into a season with Rashford as our main striker which is a lot of pressure for a 21 y/o. Spurs attacking trio of Kane, Son, Eriksen is flat out better than Lingard, Rashford, Martial. True remains to be seen if Eriksen is there come next season, but even so, would you take Rashford, Lingard, Martial or Kane, Son, Moura?

    I still have so many question marks over our squad. Lukaku's replacement is? Our defence needs work, is Maguire coming? Is anyone confident an attack of Martial, Rashford and Lingard can deliver the kind of goal return we need? Surely we need to get Sanchez off the books? Is our mindfield minus Paul Pogba good enough to compete with those around us?
  2. Jul 13, 2019

    UpWithRivers Full Member

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    Weirdly and what's the most annoying thing is that on paper we should be really good. Lukaku should be able to get 20 goals, Martial and Rashford should be able to match Sterlings season. Then we have Sanchez who again should be class. Mata/lindgard not bad back ups. That's some attack....on paper.
    Midfield we struggle but we have Pogba who is a top top midfielder. Fred has been sht but he was a 50 mil midfielder that everyone rated. And Matic with the experience and Mc tominay the up and coming youth. Again on paper not great but not bad.
    Defence we have De Gea/Shaw/Lindelof/Shaw/wan b all good defensive players. Then Smalling, Jones,Bailly should not be as bad as everyone makes out. Then we have a set up up and coming youth including James,Dalot, Gomez etc
    We don't look look too bad...on paper. But man are we sht. The performances last year were embarrassing and now you look at that team and you can't love any of them. All you see is sht.

    If they could only sort themselves out and play to thier abilities for a season. Not a couple of games here and there. Lots of ifs and buts. But if we keep lukaku,Pogba and De Gea resigns. We get Maguire and a top midfielder and we stop being such a miserable disfunctional team then we could really be on the way to building a good team.

    Do I believe that-no
  3. Jul 13, 2019

    zenith Full Member

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    If we get the bruno and maguire deals over the line , whilst keeping pogba and lukaku then I'm quite confident of getting top 4. Especially with arsenal and Chelsea being significantly weaker in the coming season
  4. Jul 13, 2019

    reddevilz007 Full Member

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    Nope, either 5 or 6.

    Liverpool and Man city will be fighting for first place

    The way Spurs is conducting their summer business, they will end up at least fourth even if they lose Eriksen.

    Chelsea has a more talented starting XI than ours, even with the loss of Hazard.

    We still have the worse midfield of the top teams, an inconsistent young front line and we still missing one top CB.

    We’ll still struggle against Wolves, Leceister and Everton.
  5. Jul 13, 2019

    Wumminator The Special One!

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    Easily top four. We have one of the best four squads in the land now.
  6. Jul 13, 2019

    Josep Dowling Full Member

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    1st and 2nd is out the question. I think Spurs are likely to take 3rd so we are battling it out with Chelsea and Arsenal for 4th.

    Chelsea have lost their best player and their main attacking threat in Hazard. He’s been replaced with Pulisic who couldn’t even get games at Dortmund. Higuain and Morata have both left as well. That leaves Giroud as their only big name striker. I think they will struggle to score goals. And there is the massive unknown with Lampard, that decision could go either way for them.

    Arsenal have a better manager than us but he doesn’t have the players to implement his system. I think they need to strengthen their defence and need better wingers but don’t have the finances to do it.

    Then there is us. We should have the money to strengthen but don’t want to spend. We have strengthened one position at RB but I have this feeling that Young as club captain will still start ahead of him initially. We have a much weaker midfield. 2 midfielders have gone and haven’t been replaced. I think we go into the season as a weaker team than last year. Sad to say but 4th is probably the target for the foreseeable future.
  7. Jul 13, 2019

    ravi2 Full Member

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    It's too bad... I thought 'we could do things in the transfer market other teams couldn't dream of'
  8. Jul 13, 2019

    Striker10 "Ronaldo and trophies > Manchester United football

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    Top four isn't good enough and shouldn't. You get called a glory hunter for saying that but it's true and we know where the blame lies and it's not just Uniteds owners. We were so bad last season and we really should not have been that bad. In addition to that, to go on that run and then go backwards like we did? The players should be ashamed. To have a heart means a lot. Many of these players are very fortunate to still be at the club because they are not worth the fans time. You have to know your level. We should have been able to make the top 4 at the very least. So many games, these players had no heart or passion to play. Any other industry and they'd be shoved out the door. It's up to them to turn up. No matter the opponent. You can lose but when you are outfought 9/10 by teams you should be beating then something needs to change. These players should grow up. I have no faith in them if they do not grow up. Forget the cheating clubs out there. History matters.

    You asked a simple question and i've not really answered it because you need the right energy in the camp but we saw last season how fragile these players are. It's up to them to rise to the challenge. The fans turn up every game. If only the players could say the same. Very few people want to be the best and some - too many perhaps are happy to steal a living. Now we could still do business in the transfer market but it appears the owners don't care. So they should sell the club and then maybe. We are being messed about by too many fools who just don't care and are too busy working on their social media rather then their job. I'm tired of seeing careless players. People with no pride/heart/imagination. Look at our squad. They've decimated it. They are parasites and should never have been allowed to purchase the club.
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2019
  9. Jul 13, 2019

    Vissy New Member

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    With the trouble Chelsea and Arsenal seem to be in, we might just take top 4 by default at this rate
  10. Jul 13, 2019

    Fox outside the box Full Member

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    There are plenty of years where, going into a new season, I would have preferred us to have players, attacks, defences or keepers that other teams have. It hasn't stopped us finishing ahead of them. You only need to look through some top 6 predictions threads to see how wrong people get it. I'm not disputing that on paper spurs have a better attack than we do. I'm not saying we are in a great place and I'm not saying we don't have things to fix but my point is that people are seriously over reacting and inflating how bad a state we're in.

    I don't think it's unreasonable to disagree that spurs are guaranteed to finish ahead of us. With them having one of their best ever seasons and us having one of the worst, if not the worst, season we've ever had in the Premier League, they finished marginally ahead of us. I don't think we're as absolutely down and out as is being made out.

    In the space of a season, Chelsea went from 10th, to winning the league and Leicester went from winning the league, to 12th. I'm looking forward to the new season in all honesty and do think we will be contention for 3rd/4th.
  11. Jul 13, 2019

    ::sonny:: Full Member

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    City
    Liverpool
    Tottenham

    Chelsea will finish 15th
    Arsenal don’t know

    There is an opportunity
  12. Jul 13, 2019

    GlastonSpur Also disliked on an Aston Villa forum

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    We finished with 15 points less than the last season in which we played all home games in our actual home stadium. But now we are back home again for this coming season.
  13. Jul 13, 2019

    Megadrive Man New Member

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    The top four is wide open next season. I think City and Liverpool will be top two, but I think both clubs will drop off from last season. After that its very difficult to call. I can see the likes of Everton, Wolves and Leicester pushing right up this season and maybe sneaking a top four place?
  14. Jul 14, 2019

    UpWithRivers Full Member

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    We don't need to have the best players. We just need a team that's better than most of the league and then be the consistent. We are better than 15 teams. Win home and away that's 90 points. Yes football is not that straight forward some of those teams will beat us. But then we should get points against better teams than us if we have a good day and them a bad one. It's all consistency. That's what the genius of Sir Alex was. Grind results out week in week out.
  15. Jul 14, 2019

    abdo99 Full Member

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    As it currently stands, no. We still don't have anything on the RW and midfield outside of Pogba is bottom half standard. It depends what happens in the market for top 4.

    If Pogba is staying we don't have to be worried about an incoming threat from the teams behind us because he is at least 2 or 3 levels above anyone in their squads.
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2019
  16. Jul 14, 2019

    amolbhatia50k Sneaky bum time

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    Our squad was good enough for top 4 last season as well. There's little between us and Chelsea/Spurs but I think we're better than both on paper. Whether we are managed as well is another thing.

    On the other hand, who actually gives much of a shit about that? I want us to aim for excellence not to merely aim to sneak into the top 4. Granted, success doesn't come about instantly but the intent has to be to build a football team to compete for the top honours. What I want to see is a proper footballing system, and a focus on brining in technically superb footballers with the right mentality'.
  17. Jul 16, 2019

    Fox outside the box Full Member

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    I said one of, not the. We finished second the year before and then had an absolute nightmare of a season which still saw us fighting for top 4 and finishing not too far of those above us.

    Also, I'm not having a go at Spurs, nor am I saying we're a better team. My point is that a lot can happen from season to season and I feel we're not as far off each other as people make out. The hysterics you see from some fans is embarrassing.
  18. Jul 16, 2019

    Volumiza Full Member

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    You're right and wrong all in one sentence. No it shouldn't be ... if we were the united of 8 years ago. Currently we have been a total shambles on and off the field. If we made top 4, playing a consistent brand of football next season then I would be more than happy. If we showed we are moving in the right direction I would be happy with 'making top 4' for the next 2 - 3 years. It's called realism dude.

    And in answer to the OP's question, if we can add Bruno Fernandes and Maguire while keeping Pogba we absolutely should be good enough.
  19. Jul 16, 2019

    El-Manos Full Member

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    If we get Maguire and a new midfielder we have a good chance. Ideally we need a right winger but we’re probably waiting for Sancho next season, i’m guessing.
  20. Jul 16, 2019

    SteveW Full Member

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    Maguire, Longstaff and Fernandes and we will walk top 4 imo. It would be a great window. AWB, James, Maguire, Longstaff, Fernandes, Axel, Greenwood and Gomes is a great influx of young talent imo.

    We can then focus on removing Young, Lukaku, Sanchez, Matic, Fred, Pereira, Darmian, Rojo, Jones and Bailly over the next 12 to 18 months and things would look much better.
  21. Jul 16, 2019

    davidmichael Full Member

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    I think Maguire, a defensive midfielder that actually has mobility and protects the defence and then a midfielder who scores goals like Fernandes and I think we’ve a good chance of top 3 as I’d take that up against Spurs.

    A starting 11 of De Gea, Wan-Bissaka, Smalling/Lindelof, Maguire, Shaw, Fernandes, new defensive midfielder, Pogba, Lingard, Rashford, Martial is much better than last season although we’d still need a big upgrade at right wing and then Rashford and Martial to be much more consistent over a whole season.
  22. Jul 16, 2019

    RedorDead21 Full Member

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    Hard to believe Martial will still be here. Surely he was the main contender to leave when Ole was talking about "some of these wont be here" after the poor displays at the end of last season. So far we've got rid of a Herrera, one of the better performers.
  23. Jul 16, 2019

    Dolf Full Member

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    It’s between us and Arsenal. We’re not worst than them on paper so we just need to get this team rolling.
  24. Jul 16, 2019

    RedDevilRoshi Full Member

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    City, Liverpool & Spurs definitely.

    Reckon the final spot will be between ourselves and Arsenal. If we strengthen well and just get some good consistent results, then I’m confident we will do it as we have the much better squad on paper. Will have to see how things pan out.

    Can’t see Chelsea in it especially with no Hazard who virtually carried them at times last season.
  25. Jul 16, 2019

    deafepl New Member

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    I'd say on our paper, we're much better than Arsenal and Chelsea last season. We created more chances than Spurs, Chelsea and Arsenal, we have one of the worst GD expected in the top 6 and suggesting that we should have scored more goals by 4 goals. Arsenal's attack is overperforming by scoring more 8 goals than they should have, it still remains uncertain if they can replicate again next season. Spurs were lucky, especially when PL team missed a couple of sitters against spurs, like Spurs should have conceded more almost 10 goals, they were one of the worst top 3 teams in the league over last few months of the season. Chelsea is just Chelsea and they'll be without Hazard next season, they still remain uncertain but cannot rule them out.

    We signed AWB, James and looking to make an improvement to defence and midfield by getting the likes of Maguire, Longstaff/Lemina, Bruno to strengthen United's squad.


    If we improved our defence, we'll be finishing top 4 comfortably, that's defence is very important to us in getting top 4. Hopefully, De Gea can get back to his best form.

    If we improved defence next season, I'm sure next summer, our attack will be top a priority
  26. Jul 16, 2019

    Amadaeus Pochettino's mother

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    With a defense of

    De Gea
    AWB - Linderlof/Smalling - Maguire - Shaw

    Mourinho would have won the title. Our defense has vastly improved over the defense Mourinho had when he got second in the league. Even though, I agree that it was the right decision to sack Mourinho, it should be obvious that the players downed tools against him in his last season. Mourinho is still an effective manager and his gameplan will be more potent with that back four.
  27. Jul 16, 2019

    Amir Full Member

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    No offence, but that is total nonsense. The backline wasn't even the reason we finished 19 points behind City in 2018 and wouldn't make up for the vast gap in quality between us and City/Liverpool.
  28. Jul 16, 2019

    Moonwalker Full Member

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    :lol:
  29. Jul 16, 2019

    Amadaeus Pochettino's mother

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    We had one of the best defense in the league. To say it wasn’t a reason is completely not true.

    Regardless, the point I am trying to make is that with the signing that we are rumored to be making in particular if Bruno and Maguire goes through, there is no reason we shouldn’t finish in the top four.

    Our fans seems spoiled. There would be a meltdown if the manager was not backed like pochettino last season, got only £40m to spend or have a ban from buying players. It seems like even though we have or will have the most expensive players in each position, some fans think top four won’t be achievable. The standards has definitely dropped here.
  30. Jul 16, 2019

    WR10 Correctly predicted France to win World Cup 2018

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    People tend to forget that we really went through the worst periods ever with Mourinho at times during early/midseason last season. Then put in an above-average resurgence where we played to our quality with Ole and truly ran out of gas after.

    If you iron out the absolutely horrible periods with Mourinho and take a lil bit off the top of Ole's 10 game run and get rid of the fatigue from the end of the season the squad last year should have easily finished 4th.
    With the addition of a proper RB and an exciting young player with a re-energized and high moral squad again we should have no no problems finishing top 4.

    I'm saying we finish 2nd. From what I see - the rest of the top 6 haven't made massive strides in the transfer market to improve like they did last summer have they? Am I missing something?
  31. Jul 16, 2019

    Alabaster Codify7 Full Member

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    If we make top 4 this season, our owners won't be prioritising any area of our team next summer. Ole will have hit his target and they'll expect him to do the same the following summer with minimal investment, exactly what they did to Jose after finishing 2nd. It's how they operate.
  32. Jul 16, 2019

    Fox outside the box Full Member

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    Agreed. But I think we're another year away at least from City and Liverpool to be honest. Though I fear City far more. Their resources will keep them in the top bracket whereas Liverpool have brought everything together really well but as soon as they lose a couple of players and/or their manager, I think they'll be right back in the struggle. Our goal is to catch Spurs and Chelsea whilst keeping ahead of Arsenal.

    Top 4 isn't a chump's achievement these days. 6 clubs will feel like they should be in there and every year, 2 sets of fans will be pissed off and cry about how terrible their club is, how bad their players are and how clueless the manager is.

    And that's without any other clubs getting bought and entering the game. We need to make sure we are ready to take advantage when City and Liverpool really have to start transitioning.
  33. Jul 16, 2019

    GlastonSpur Also disliked on an Aston Villa forum

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    Well, Spurs didn't sign anyone last summer. So far this summer we've signed one first XI player - tho' it remains to be seen which first XI players leave and who replaces them.
  34. Jul 16, 2019

    eire-red Full Member

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    If we manage to keep Pogba and De Gea, then I think we could be 3/4 players off challenging. Might be a big jump, but if we get Maguire this summer, sell Lukaku and invest that money in a top quality midfielder then we're not as far off as it may seem. I'm not overly optimistic, but not pessimistic either.

    Keeping Pogba is the big if, and him leaving could really put a spanner in the works. Maguire and AWB are really good signings and really should sort out our defence for the next 5 years at least. Spending the 70m we may get for Lukaku on a top midfielder is paramount. It's clear Pogba is world class, but to get the best out of him we really need a top player beside him to compliment him. Sort of like Vidal did at Juventus. Having Pogba play with Matic and Fred is like owning a Ferrari and driving it in 1st gear all year round. He's a luxury player, but a match winner in the right set up and frankly can be unplayable on his day.

    The attack can wait, I know we desperately need a right winger, but the attack won't function unless we have a proper supply line from defence to midfield to attack. Maguire and Lindelof playing quality passes into Pogba and someone in the mould of Pjanic or Kroos (Obvs there's probably not a player of this quality available) and building in that way needs to be the focus. You can't build a house without laying the foundation, and that's what we need to do.

    Next summer we need to go all out for Sancho and possibly a striker depending on how this season goes, but that's a focus for after Christmas while we assess where we are between now and December. Right now are we good enough for top 4? I think we're in a better position than Chelsea having lost Hazard. Lampard I wouldn't factor in considering we have arguable an equally inexperienced manager with by far the biggest challenge he will ever face in his managerial career.

    Arsenal have a better manager, but are lacking the quality of player needed, also having lost Ramsey and possibly Koscielny and Torreira out the door too. I fancy us to be superior to them. Given all the toxicity around how they're being run and the unrest with Korenke, I would say the mood in their camp right now is comparable with what shape we were in this time last year.

    Overall, if we sign Maguire, sell Lukaku and spend big on a top midfielder, along with keeping De Gea and Pogba, I feel we have enough to secure top 4 and have a genuine battle with Spurs for 3rd. I can see both United and Spurs hitting around 80pts with Liverpool and City out on top, but possibly not by the same margin. Top 4 is the key, we need to have CL football to attract the quality we need, but I think we've been shrewd in targeting players this summer who will look beyond the shambles of a club we are and who will obviously want to play for United. We should stay clear of the likes of Pepe and Rabiot who obviously never wanted to be here, but we might have tempted with huge wages and the prospect of CL football next season.

    We need to invest heavily, but it has to be in the right way. Spending 300 on 4 top players over a couple of windows is what we need, not a 1 summer rebuild where we buy 5 players for 50m each, that might look great on paper.
  35. Jul 16, 2019

    tonnas New Member

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    if we manage to get maguire and a decent cm we will battle spurs for 3rd.
  36. Jul 16, 2019

    royboy16 Full Member

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    I don't think Wolves will be as good this season and Leicester will improve so we will see..
  37. Jul 16, 2019

    Amir Full Member

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    But that's my point. Our defence in 2017/18 was fine. Improving it that season would not have brought us to City's level.

    It might have helped in 2018/19, but it still wouldn't have been enough to challenge City or Liverpool because our football was nowhere near good enough.
  38. Jul 16, 2019

    Amir Full Member

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    There's staying in the top bracket with a team getting 100 points a season and there's staying in the top bracket with 80 points. If City/Liverpool remain around the 100 points zone, I'd say that even if we'll be doing a lot of things right we won't be anywhere near for two years at least.

    And I doubt we're doing a lot of things right.
  39. Jul 16, 2019

    Igor Drefljak Definitely Russian

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    I'm actually quite optimistic for the coming season (This is assuming we get Maguire and Bruno)
    If we sign De Gea to a new contract and keep Pogba for the season I think top 4 should easily be achievable, especially with the turmoil at Chelsea and Arsenal being the way they're being.
    I feel we should easily be fighting it out with Tottenham for 3rd place. I do believe City and Liverpool are ahead though so I'm not even considering going for the title.

    De Gea
    (Romero)

    W. Bissaka - Lindelof - Maguire - Shaw
    (Dalot - Smalling - Jones - Young)

    McTominay - Pogba
    (Matic - Fred)

    Lingard - Fernandes - Martial
    (Mata - Gomes - James)

    Rashford
    (Sanchez)
    We also have good youth prospects in Defence (Tuanzebe), Midfield (Garner) and attack (Greenwood) - Being in the Europa will give these guys a chance.
    I think the above team should fight for top 3 comfortably. I do feel their are gaps, but I guess we cannot fix everything in one summer, but ideally

    Ndid for McTominay
    Sancho for Lingard
    A striker

    would complete the side for now, but I'd be happy enough with this side. I feel we aint going for a RW as we're hoping for Sancho next season, so why buy somebody now.

    The person who'll hold us back the most this season I believe will be Ole... Is he actually up for the job?
  40. Jul 16, 2019

    Fox outside the box Full Member

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    Ye but a lot can happen in 2 years as well. Players and managers could have left and there might be some transition. City could lose Pep, Aguero, Silva, some really key figures for them. A couple of good years for us and even if they do well in that time, which I'm sure they will, going into the third year could see some fair changes.

    I'd personally be happy with 4th next year, really happy with 3rd. Would give us a good platform to push on.