Graeme Sourness

Bubz27

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What a cnut. Had a nice few digs today. Apparently we have to play on the front foot and create chance after chance but we parked the bus. And he quickly gets in how we parked the bus at Anfield earlier in the season (admittedly we did, but that has nothing to do with today).

47% possession (so fairly even) and 10 shots to their 3 today.

The facts hardly match your narrative Graeme.
 

Fridge chutney

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What a cnut. Had a nice few digs today. Apparently we have to play on the front foot and create chance after chance but we parked the bus. And he quickly gets in how we parked the bus at Anfield earlier in the season (admittedly we did, but that has nothing to do with today).

47% possession (so fairly even) and 10 shots to their 3 today.

The facts hardly match your narrative Graeme.
He's a bitter old fool. He occasionally makes a good point or two regarding football or other teams, but hates our club so much that he talks complete nonsense. He is not important or worthy for a thread in my opinion.
 

Man-United

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I like him usually but today he was a bit over the top. Maybe too much drinking over the Easter.
 

Kag

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He's actually spot on. Today's performance isn't a template for success in every game and he's right in saying so. We are expected to dominate matches and play with more positivity - which we have done against lesser sides, in fairness. We're just not very good at doing it.

I actually think he's showing a bit of composure instead of getting carried away with a very specific kind of performance against the league leaders.

We're more than capable of doing what we did today. It's home matches against should-be cannon fodder that we can't get right, and no amount of counter attacking and man marking is really going to change that.
 

acnumber9

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He's better than most but he's looked like a miserable bastard all day. Ah well.
 

Bojan11

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I agreed about the front foot bit. We not going to play like that or have players man marking every week. Our problem is when teams sit back and that hasn't changed after today. Despite it being a good performance.
 

FC Ronaldo

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I like him. He's forever miserable and brutal.
 

Djemba-Djemba

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Basically if Liverpool had put in the exact same performance as us today and beaten Chelsea 2-0 no chance would he be criticising Klopp and Liverpool for not playing on the front foot and not being attacking enough and all the other bollocks he came out with .
 

Bubz27

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He's actually spot on. Today's performance isn't a template for success in every game and he's right in saying so. We are expected to dominate matches and play with more positivity - which we have done against lesser sides, in fairness. We're just not very good at doing it.

I actually think he's showing a bit of composure instead of getting carried away with a very specific kind of performance against the league leaders.

We're more than capable of doing what we did today. It's home matches against should-be cannon fodder that we can't get right, and no amount of counter attacking and man marking is really going to change that.


I agreed about the front foot bit. We not going to play like that or have players man marking every week. Our problem is when teams sit back and that hasn't changed after today. Despite it being a good performance.
But that's the point today. Let's look at the context. We haven't done a man marking job against Chris Brunt or someone. We've done a job against one of the best attacking players in the world and rendered him totally useless in a 90 minute match. That isn't easy to do. Praise Herrera. Don't have a go because of how we played.

The context is important today. We've just played the league leaders and most people's would-be champions and best team in England. And we beat them. Comfortably. This wasn't smash and grab. We totally controlled them. No one else has done that this season, but Sou(r)ness says that isn't how we should play etc.
 

Seanus

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He's actually spot on. Today's performance isn't a template for success in every game and he's right in saying so. We are expected to dominate matches and play with more positivity - which we have done against lesser sides, in fairness. We're just not very good at doing it.

I actually think he's showing a bit of composure instead of getting carried away with a very specific kind of performance against the league leaders.

We're more than capable of doing what we did today. It's home matches against should-be cannon fodder that we can't get right, and no amount of counter attacking and man marking is really going to change that.
But the only person who mentioned that being the template was the presenter-not as though Jose said it is it?
 

Raees

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I thought he made some very astute points today but I agree that the tone of his delivery seemed quite bitter.
 

Kag

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But that's the point today. Let's look at the context. We haven't done a man marking job against Chris Brunt or someone. We've done a job against one of the best attacking players in the world and rendered him totally useless in a 90 minute match. That isn't easy to do. Praise Herrera. Don't have a go because of how we played.

The context is important today. We've just played the league leaders and most people's would-be champions and best team in England. And we beat them. Comfortably. This wasn't smash and grab. We totally controlled them. No one else has done that this season, but Sou(r)ness says that isn't how we should play etc.
Souness praised the team for exactly that. He said as much, no matter how much it clearly pains him.

He was then asked if this was what United should be doing more often. And of course the answer is no. It isn't how we're going to beat Bournemouth and Hull at home. It isn't how we need to approach playing City or Arsenal every time either. It was exactly the right kind of performance specific to this current Chelsea side, and he praised us for it. So what's the issue?
 

Jippy

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I kind of like him as a pundit in many ways- agree he's brutal.
Today was another study in bitterness from him.
 

Devil may care

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I didn't see anything outlandish in what he said, I certainly don't want to see us playing that style apart from the Rashford and Lingard pairing.
 

SteveJ

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He's Scottish born and an adopted scouser, covering a Manchester United game in England. He could only be more angry if he had a car battery crocodile clipped to his knackers 24/7.
:lol:
 

cyberman

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He's actually spot on. Today's performance isn't a template for success in every game and he's right in saying so. We are expected to dominate matches and play with more positivity - which we have done against lesser sides, in fairness. We're just not very good at doing it.

I actually think he's showing a bit of composure instead of getting carried away with a very specific kind of performance against the league leaders.

We're more than capable of doing what we did today. It's home matches against should-be cannon fodder that we can't get right, and no amount of counter attacking and man marking is really going to change that.
The template discussion was a strawman argument though? Jose didn't say this the future, this is Jose adjusting his tactics to a specific team and having the players in the squad that are adaptable enough to carry it out.
In a league with so many top managers and varied styles of play, this strength could be invaluable as we evolve.
Look at Pep with the derby coming up. How does he prepare for Us? What can he realistically expect to be up against without simply guessing? While Jose knows exactly how Pep's city plays and knows he has the squad to adjust to the situation.
If anything that's the template for the future.
 

Bubz27

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Souness praised the team for exactly that. He said as much, no matter how much it clearly pains him.

He was then asked if this was what United should be doing more often. And of course the answer is no. It isn't how we're going to beat Bournemouth and Hull at home. It isn't how we need to approach playing City or Arsenal every time either. It was exactly the right kind of performance specific to this current Chelsea side, and he praised us for it. So what's the issue?
The first thing he said when they went back to the studio was we parked the bus and felt the need to bring up Anfield as well from 6 or 7 months ago.

That isn't true of today. Completely unnecessary to bring it up.

He throws a little bit of praise then counters it by downplaying how we did it.
 

Phurry

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When he is acting so bitter it means we did something right, he simply can't handle it. Rejoice in his misery, it shows he's hurt.
 

Bubz27

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I didn't see anything outlandish in what he said, I certainly don't want to see us playing that style apart from the Rashford and Lingard pairing.
What style? Giving the best team in the country precisely 0 shots on target while being a constant threat to the other team?
 

Escobar

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Who cares we were by far the better team everyone saw that except some bitter idiots
 

Raees

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Souness praised the team for exactly that. He said as much, no matter how much it clearly pains him.

He was then asked if this was what United should be doing more often. And of course the answer is no. It isn't how we're going to beat Bournemouth and Hull at home. It isn't how we need to approach playing City or Arsenal every time either. It was exactly the right kind of performance specific to this current Chelsea side, and he praised us for it. So what's the issue?
Agreed. Nothing that he said was wrong.

More how he said it.
 

Kag

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The template discussion was a strawman argument though? Jose didn't say this the future, this is Jose adjusting his tactics to a specific team and having the players in the squad that are adaptable enough to carry it out.
In a league with so many top managers and varied styles of play, this strength could be invaluable as we evolve.
Look at Pep with the derby coming up. How does he prepare for Us? What can he realistically expect to be up against without simply guessing? While Jose knows exactly how Pep's city plays and knows he has the squad to adjust to the situation.
If anything that's the template for the future.
Mourinho didn't have to say it. I'm sure he himself knows it isn't a template for success. Souness can only answer the questions directed to him. He said it was a "fantastic" performance and that us supporters can be very happy. He also said that United should be positive, on the front foot and hammering opposition teams. That is equally true.

Other than that, I agree with you. Mourinho is brilliant at winning tough games. He knows how to win on the counter attack. He's a great spoiler. He can get his players to perform very specific roles in aid of us winning. He did it today and he'll do it again, no doubt. But he also still has to get right in other matches, hence Souness (like I) isn't getting carried away.
 

Devil may care

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What style? Giving the best team in the country precisely 0 shots on target while being a constant threat to the other team?
A side that is reactive rather than proactive, man marking players, only having 2 attackers on the pitch and then down to one because he has to keep the fecking tree on and leave Rashford isolated, inviting pressure and minimizing our counter outlet. Tactically I can see it tickled Jose, aesthetically bar the link play from Rashford and Lingard, I thought it was ugly.
 

Bubz27

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A side that is reactive rather than proactive, man marking players, only having 2 attackers on the pitch and then down to one because he has to keep the fecking tree on and leave Rashford isolated, inviting pressure and minimizing our counter outlet. Tactically I can see it tickled Jose, aesthetically bar the link play from Rashford and Lingard, I thought it was ugly.
I'll have to disagree with you. The key here, at times this type of performance is necessary. Fergie did it plenty of times.
 

Devil may care

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I'll have to disagree with you. The key here, at times this type of performance is necessary. Fergie did it plenty of times.
I never liked it then either, not at home and not unless we were against a truly exceptional team, which this Chelsea side aren't, this was an away at the Nou Camp or Allianz style of negativity for me, not at home to this Chelsea side.
 

OnlyTwoDaSilvas

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I'm perhaps being a little bit picky, but he kept calling us "Man Utd". He doesn't normally do that. There was one moment at half time where he called us "Man United" and he seemed to immediately correct himself and say "Man Utd" again. I'm sure he knows it's normally used in a derogatory manner.

I disagreed with him when he said the referee had been lenient to us. I don't think the handball was a stonewaller, or any way deliberate, but he spoke about it like it was robbery. It could go either way, and those kinds do every game. He didn't mention anything about Costa launching Bailly towards the goalpost head first, or his blatant diving that won him free kicks they shouldn't have had, or anything about Kante's accumulation of fouls for which he was never booked. Both him and Lampard were in agreement that losing Alonso in the warm-up was an enormous loss, but no mention of the amount of absentees we had today in what was far from a full strength United side.

His narrative was fairly clear today IMO.
 

#07

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He showed how little of United he's seen this year. Only had two points of reference, today and at Anfield.

We have dominated teams we have simply missed easy chances. A month ago, maybe Rashford takes Herrera's through ball and hits it straight at the goalie. That Sunderland goal has revived him though.

If we can string a few results together, taking the very soft chances we've been missing all season like today, then both we and our opponents will start to believe Man Utd has something.
 

Bubz27

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I never liked it then either, not at home and not unless we were against a truly exceptional team, which this Chelsea side aren't, this was an away at the Nou Camp or Allianz style of negativity for me, not at home to this Chelsea side.
That's fair. I understand.

Ideally I'd love it if we didn't have to either. Even when we were the best team in the land, we'd still have games where we'd go to 'do a job'. It's a psychological thing.

The truly great teams make the other teams change their game plan for them, not the other way round.