GRAHAM POLL: Mark Clattenburg gives nothing to a side once their fans turn on him

Lurpak99

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I think we all feel the standards are better outside the league we follow the most - I see good/bad decisions everywhere. Overall, however, I believe the standards are simply not up to par for the quality on the pitch

I actually stopped following the NBA back in 2006/2007 due to the poor level of officiating, worried it will kill my interest in football as well
Which could be because it's a harder job?
 

FCBarca

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Which could be because it's a harder job?
Sadly, that's the standard refrain/defense of not improving, that it's a harder job. Everyone's job is harder, hardly an excuse - improve or be made redundant

Game has improved in many areas so should officiating
 

Lurpak99

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Sadly, that's the standard refrain/defense of not improving, that it's a harder job. Everyone's job is harder, hardly an excuse - improve or be made redundant

Game has improved in many areas so should officiating
But how exactly can you improve much as a referee? It's a lot easier for a footballer to just go out on the training pitch and practicing his skills.
 

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It maybe the case that after Jose had a go at him he's thought "feck him, I'll give them nothing!" Or at least not give debatable decisions.

People forget he's a human being and getting dogs abuse from someone at half time is going to affect him. Put yourself in his position.

As regards Poll, he's just getting his paper clicks. Nothing more.
 

FCBarca

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But how exactly can you improve much as a referee? It's a lot easier for a footballer to just go out on the training pitch and practicing his skills.
I think you need to be evaluated and refreshers/tutorials on what to observe, to avoid, what to look for and what to anticipate. At the very least, I think you have to some form of reflection & improvement. We've come to accept mediocrity all too easily in a game where decisions clearly impact results
 

VanGaalEra

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Oppo fans sticking up for refs in this thread, just wait until some decisions start to go against them and for us.

Tune will suddenly change.
 

jojose

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He's an awful referee. Really, really bad. As soon as I saw him I said to my mate "we'll get nowt off this c*nt". It was from minute one we got nothing because he didn't want to look like he was evening anything up from the city game.

You know a good referee because you haven't heard of him. If you come away from a game knowing who referee'd it, it means they have been too involved. With Clattenburg, its always all about him.
 

Long Ball

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Keith Blackett (correct name?) is backing Clattenburg in the telegraph this morning.

Iirc we can't link to their website
 

Acole9

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He's a celebrity ref he thinks everyone has come to watch him.
 

JPRouve

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Who was it ? Chapron is still here isn't he ?
I had Castro and an other one in mind but apparently they also took care of Thual.

Edit: I think that the third one was Enjimmi.
 
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johnny boy

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Oppo fans sticking up for refs in this thread, just wait until some decisions start to go against them and for us.

Tune will suddenly change.
I am not sure it's sticking up for ref's, clearly Poll has made mistakes in the past (one in particular was a major one), and now has a column which based upon all such sports news seeks to attract headlines.
Is he fit to call out others?

Clearly Clattenburg has also made mistakes - Herrera at the weekend was never a red.
We just seem to have had several threads running recently on Oliver, Atkinson and Clattenburg - some almost suggesting they are biased against United.

I don't see that - 3 of the main Premier League referee's.

They make mistakes , and sometimes those mistakes can be costly for teams - but I don't think it's an anti-United thing (if that is what is being suggested - admittedly I am rolling up several discussions into one with that).
 

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I think we all feel the standards are better outside the league we follow the most - I see good/bad decisions everywhere. Overall, however, I believe the standards are simply not up to par for the quality on the pitch

I actually stopped following the NBA back in 2006/2007 due to the poor level of officiating, worried it will kill my interest in football as well
It's not about the league we follow it's about the team we support, it's human nature to believe that the officials are against us, everybody is against us, the press, the commentators, the this, the that etc. It's rarely if ever true, it's our natural bias as supporters of a club to feel that way. As a Spurs fan most weekends I feel disgusted by the anti Spurs bias we've suffered, when the truth is the officials are equally good or equally bad towards everybody, except maybe Howard Webb who clearly favoured one club )).

As for La Liga I live in Spain and watch it without really supporting one club which allows for less passionate views and find the overall officiating to be of a higher standard than of the PL.
 

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Referees should have to come out and explain their decisions. Even if it is not live TV and through him watching a replay it would be a start. If he admits to a mistake then fair enough let them explain their thought process. I'm also up for the ref earset that's used in rugby. If it means carding players for foul language all the better. It would soon stop.
I agree with all of this. Referees are humans and they’ll make mistakes. But to be fair to them, they do get the majority right. If I had a £ for every time I have disputed numerous decisions when at the match only to see in the concourse the ref was right. The problem is, we remember the ones they get wrong, usually because they are the big ones that matter.


I think players, fans and managers would all be more willing to accept inconsistencies and wrong decisions if they were honestly explained. An honest appraisal of the referee’s own performance can also assist in their own personal development and in the improvement of existing and would be referee’s.


If anything, an post-match interview would in the very least make the ref’s personable. At the moment they are all seen as “egotistical bullied as a child little hitlers”.


I don’t see how anything negative could come from a referee being interviewed.


Maybe it could start with the referee’s report being made public.


Zlatan is on £300,000 and has missed 10 sitters, if he’s silent on the matter people get on his case and want him dropped. If he came out and said “hey, I have missed 10 chances I should have buried, I’ll work hard to make sure the next hits the back of the net” then people cut him some slack. Same goes for referee’s I think.
 

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I agree with all of this. Referees are humans and they’ll make mistakes. But to be fair to them, they do get the majority right. If I had a £ for every time I have disputed numerous decisions when at the match only to see in the concourse the ref was right. The problem is, we remember the ones they get wrong, usually because they are the big ones that matter.


I think players, fans and managers would all be more willing to accept inconsistencies and wrong decisions if they were honestly explained. An honest appraisal of the referee’s own performance can also assist in their own personal development and in the improvement of existing and would be referee’s.


If anything, an post-match interview would in the very least make the ref’s personable. At the moment they are all seen as “egotistical bullied as a child little hitlers”.


I don’t see how anything negative could come from a referee being interviewed.


Maybe it could start with the referee’s report being made public.


Zlatan is on £300,000 and has missed 10 sitters, if he’s silent on the matter people get on his case and want him dropped. If he came out and said “hey, I have missed 10 chances I should have buried, I’ll work hard to make sure the next hits the back of the net” then people cut him some slack. Same goes for referee’s I think.
If a ref gives a decision which costs a team a game and then gives an interview supporters of that club will spit fire at him whatever he says.

I'm no fan of officials, in fact they make my blood boil during games but they really can't win.
 

VanGaalEra

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I think you need to be evaluated and refreshers/tutorials on what to observe, to avoid, what to look for and what to anticipate. At the very least, I think you have to some form of reflection & improvement. We've come to accept mediocrity all too easily in a game where decisions clearly impact results
Completely agree, do they even have any evaluation carried out on their performances, are their mistakes reviewed and are they asked to explain their decisions?

Do they even make an effort to understand the game from the players' point of view.
 

JPRouve

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Completely agree, do they even have any evaluation carried out on their performances, are their mistakes reviewed and are they asked to explain their decisions?

Do they even make an effort to understand the game from the players' point of view.
Yes to all the questions, if the PL is like Ligue 1.
 

SirHenryPercy

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Completely agree, do they even have any evaluation carried out on their performances, are their mistakes reviewed and are they asked to explain their decisions?

Do they even make an effort to understand the game from the players' point of view.
They are all evaluated on every game, this IMHO is half the problem, they are instructed to follow the letter of the law on all occasions and are discouraged from using common sense and their own interpretation.
 

JPRouve

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They are all evaluated on every game, this IMHO is half the problem, they are instructed to follow the letter of the law on all occasions and are discouraged from using common sense and their own interpretation.
I don't know the FA but in other leagues that statement is completely wrong, they are actually judged on their use of common sense and their ability to adapt to the context.
 

#07

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While being stunned that Clattenberg sent Herrera off for a slip, let's all take time to remember Clattenberg did not think this was a foul:

 

Lurpak99

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I think you need to be evaluated and refreshers/tutorials on what to observe, to avoid, what to look for and what to anticipate. At the very least, I think you have to some form of reflection & improvement. We've come to accept mediocrity all too easily in a game where decisions clearly impact results
I'd be surprised if they aren't evaluated, it's just that they're probably evaluated by someone like Mike Riley who knows how it is to referee a PL match, and he knows that it isn't as easy as a lot of people make it out to be. There's a reason why there's very few referees in the world who're considered good.
 

VanGaalEra

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They are all evaluated on every game, this IMHO is half the problem, they are instructed to follow the letter of the law on all occasions and are discouraged from using common sense and their own interpretation.
That needs changing.
 

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If a ref gives a decision which costs a team a game and then gives an interview supporters of that club will spit fire at him whatever he says.

I'm no fan of officials, in fact they make my blood boil during games but they really can't win.
Yeah I agree that they cant win and if they have got it wrong then they can usually effect a result without anything being over turned. I just think if they come out and say "I didn't give it because x, y and z" as long as they are honest about it then that's faire enough for me. If there is a common theme behind incorrect decisions it might lead to improvement in some way.

I also think the lino's need to take more responsibility. In both of our penalty appeals on Darmien, the lino is looking straight down the line of the challenge.

My personal opinion of the the appeals is that they are both 50/50. The first one, contact is minimal and he goes down looking for it - but they are more often than not given. The second one is a little like the tackle on Martial at Watford, of course the lad "wins the ball" but he kicks through Darmien to get it.

I personally believe the second one to be more of a penalty which is kind of a double whammy for us to take, we didn't get the foul on Martial which led to a Watford goal and we also didn't get the one on DArmien which would have led to victory. Potentially 5 points down the drain based on two decisions. At least they where consistent in not giving them I suppose - but for me, both were fouls.
 

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I'd be surprised if they aren't evaluated, it's just that they're probably evaluated by someone like Mike Riley who knows how it is to referee a PL match, and he knows that it isn't as easy as a lot of people make it out to be. There's a reason why there's very few referees in the world who're considered good.
I'd agree with this if we actually saw referees reprimanded, suspended etc. but you never see/hear that
 

Cassidy

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Twice this season already at OT I have felt he was biased against our team. Usually don't have a go at refs but the City game and the Burnley game he really seemed to not want to give us anything
 

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I think you need to be evaluated and refreshers/tutorials on what to observe, to avoid, what to look for and what to anticipate. At the very least, I think you have to some form of reflection & improvement. We've come to accept mediocrity all too easily in a game where decisions clearly impact results
I totally agree. Refereeing is one aspect of the game which in my opinion refuses to accept criticism and therefore refuses to improve itself and grow. They always hide behind excuses such as the high speed of the game, players being cunning, and all that. Well, if that's the case, fine, adapt then, find new methods to keep up with the progress made by the players. The spray for free kicks is a good idea to solve the issue of moving walls. Goal-line technology has been unanimously accepted as a good improvement. Some rules can be simplified as well to help the refs (did I hear anyone say offside?).

I saw your reference to the NBA earlier and you're right, sometimes refereeing decisions there are very laughable, almost as if they make the calls (or non-calls) on purpose, just for the sake of spectacle, as if it was some show or something. It's like Blatter's argument some years ago, during debates after some world cup refereeing scandals, when he claimed refereeing errors should be accepted as part of football and that controversies participate in making the legend of some great football matches. This is not WWE, this is real life sports! We should expect the same level of excellence from referess as we do from players!
 

FCBarca

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The NBA is a good comparison I feel since some referees developed personalities that were on par with many of the athletes which, for me, is contrary to the principles of the game. Referees aren't meant to be personalities, they are meant to be seen & not heard - only to intervene to maintain the flow of a just game/match

In football, I always think about the scrums that go on during a corner kick - 9 times out of 10 there is an offense that can warrant a penalty, in just about any league. Yet, we inconsistently see it applied. I was watching a nice highlight comp of Messi on my way back from London and the number of times players were physically holding Leo down, tearing his shirt etc - yet none of those examples led to a booking. I mean, it's a bizarre state of officiating for me. You go into matches now not sure what will be called or not and largely depends on the referee for the match which then encourages one team to exploit the leniency
 

Enigma_87

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I am not sure it's sticking up for ref's, clearly Poll has made mistakes in the past (one in particular was a major one), and now has a column which based upon all such sports news seeks to attract headlines.
Is he fit to call out others?

Clearly Clattenburg has also made mistakes - Herrera at the weekend was never a red.
We just seem to have had several threads running recently on Oliver, Atkinson and Clattenburg - some almost suggesting they are biased against United.

I don't see that - 3 of the main Premier League referee's.

They make mistakes , and sometimes those mistakes can be costly for teams - but I don't think it's an anti-United thing (if that is what is being suggested - admittedly I am rolling up several discussions into one with that).
It's not about that. Clattenburg is incompetent twat that for some reason keeps getting all high profile games, even in Europe. It's mind boggling. It's not about bias per say but he's just not up for the job. If it is actually bias and personal emotions during the game it's actually worse.

I rarely pin down losing points to the referee and to be honest he's not the reason we lost points to Burnley it was down to our finishing and probably luck(mostly our finishing), but the state of the current top referees in the country really pisses me off.
 

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This season, I've seen the worst standard of officiating that I've ever seen in any PL season. It's worrying. It's not just one or two referees either. Nearly all of them are making at least 1-2 shocking calls per game that is undoubtedly affecting results.

- Clattenburg has already fecked us over by Sending Herrera off (for slipping :lol:).. and he didn't send Bravo off for the challenge on Rooney which is where our season went downhill...
- The guy at Chelsea who didn't send Luiz off for a clear studs up challenge which could've at least given Utd a fighting chance.
- Anthony Taylor pressured by LFC ended up giving every slight touch as a foul, and didn't award any yellows to LFC, but 4 to us.

It's happening to every team as well, what happened with the precedent set in the first game week about tussling on corners? It's just a poor show all around.
 

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And Solskjær has won it!
It maybe the case that after Jose had a go at him he's thought "feck him, I'll give them nothing!" Or at least not give debatable decisions.

People forget he's a human being and getting dogs abuse from someone at half time is going to affect him. Put yourself in his position.

As regards Poll, he's just getting his paper clicks. Nothing more.
If he's that mentally weak and outside influences compromise his impartiality so easily. Then he has no place being a professional football referee.
 

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If he's that mentally weak and outside influences compromise his impartiality so easily. Then he has no place being a professional football referee.
I'm not say mentality weak, I'm saying he's thought "feck you, I'll show ye" basically he punished mourinho and therefore Utd.
 

noodlehair

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I didn't think he was that bad on Saturday, barring the red card. The only thing United paid the price for was their incompetence at putting the ball into the goal.

The penalty call was a tough one, but there wouldn't have been much point in awarding a penalty anyway. Even if he'd given one and moved the penalty spot to a yard from the goal, and forced the goalkeeper to try to save it from the other end of the pitch, United would have found a way not to score it.
 

TsuWave

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It maybe the case that after Jose had a go at him he's thought "feck him, I'll give them nothing!" Or at least not give debatable decisions.

People forget he's a human being and getting dogs abuse from someone at half time is going to affect him. Put yourself in his position.
and that's a/the problem, a ref should remain objective regardless. if he can't effectively do that then by all means he should not be refereeing.
 

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and that's a/the problem, a ref should remain objective regardless. if he can't effectively do that then by all means he should not be refereeing.
There could be something in that but obviously no-one knows for sure what's going on in his head. He incorrectly sent Bellamy off at Bolton back in 2009 after he'd apparently been slating Bellamy to one of City's backroom staff at half-time. He then got fouled in the second half and Clattenburg gave him a second yellow for diving.

Whether he is biased in certain situations or just plain shite, I've no idea. What I do know is that fans of pretty much all clubs don't look forward to him taking charge of their games and Everton complained so vehemently about his officiating in the Merseyside derby in 2007 that he didn't referee another Everton game for the next 6 years. I don't want to use the word "bent" but there seemed to be something decidedly dodgy about his performance in that match.

Let's also not forget that he was banned from refereeing for 8 months due to issues "relating to his private business affairs"
 

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and that's a/the problem, a ref should remain objective regardless. if he can't effectively do that then by all means he should not be refereeing.
I agree, I wasn't saying he was right by doing it. I was giving a possible reason why.
 

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So do you genuinely feel he is a poor referee or just biased against United?
I think he is vain and was stung by the perception of bias towards us and is currently 'self correcting' by giving us next to nothing

Mike Riley was similar in his day, he gave us a few penalties (most of which were correctly given), then when he was accused of bias he started refereeing differently to appear 'neutral'. Gave us nothing.
 

Inigo Montoya

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That's because he was, in his continued effort to prove he isn't biased towards United he goes to the other extreme.

After this banner, i think he gave at least 6 penalties against us in the next few games he reffed us. Including fecking 3 in one game vs Liverpool at OT.

3 stonewall penalties though.
 

Inigo Montoya

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I think he is vain and was stung by the perception of bias towards us and is currently 'self correcting' by giving us next to nothing

Mike Riley was similar in his day, he gave us a few penalties (most of which were correctly given), then when he was accused of bias he started refereeing differently to appear 'neutral'. Gave us nothing.
Poll did allude to this a while back on Talksport. Did say that when managers in particular criticise a ref, that ref will go the other way next time.he

Clattenburg is the worst
 

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I think interviews are a terrible idea but they should be mic'd up as it adds a level of them having to justify their actions.

Of course they won't do that as the refs are an extension of the FA and it won't bring criticism on itself.
 

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United do deserve this after what Mark did in that 3-2 game wrongly sending off Torres and Ivanovic and allowing an offside goal to stand. It's just karma.
What drivel. We should be repeatedly punished for a match that happened 4 years ago? Also, offsides are given by linesmen, not Clattenburg, and Torres deserved to be off the pitch anyway as someone already pointed out.