Erm, wasn't one of them a massive dive by Sturridge?
GRAHAM POLL: Mark Clattenburg gives nothing to a side once their fans turn on him
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran hold a long overdue conversation about United's awful league form with 1 win in 7. They discuss a disappointing draw at Bournemouth, a not so disappointing draw against Liverpool and a crushing defeat at Chelsea - Is time nearly over for Erik Ten Hag?
Then in a special second half of the pod, Nik welcomes Natalie ( https://twitter.com/natalie_17) to discuss the fortunes of Manchester United Women as they booked a place in the FA Cup Final after a historic first ever win vs. Chelsea.
We gave him a decision to make.We were so poor in defence, it was no surprise we got trashed.
I agree with this completely. Especially the part about NBA. I watch occasionally and when the officials are poor it destroys the match. Infuriating.
What's that got to do with what you said? You said they were all stone wall penalties when one of them obviously wasn't? That's the point I'm making, nothing to do with our defending which was shocking.
@FCBarca made a good point.
No one is saying the refereeing job is easy but they're the only group in football who don't suffer any consequences for bad performances.
Think what you want of Graham Poll but he's right.
There are referees that are just generally shit but that's not the discussion.
There are refs who go to extreme lengths to prove they aren't going to be put under pressure by player, fans and managers.
This bastard is the biggest proponent of that shite.
We should follow the Germans. referees should have press conferences after each game explaining their decisions.
No one is saying the refereeing job is easy but they're the only group in football who don't suffer any consequences for bad performances.
Think what you want of Graham Poll but he's right.
There are referees that are just generally shit but that's not the discussion.
There are refs who go to extreme lengths to prove they aren't going to be put under pressure by player, fans and managers.
This bastard is the biggest proponent of that shite.
We should follow the Germans. referees should have press conferences after each game explaining their decisions.
Move on pal It's sooo 3 years ago
Poll is essentially calling Clattenburg a cheat here. Will be interesting to see if he sues.
Clattenburg is a genuinely awful referee though, always has to be the centre of attention and seems to make one hugely controversial call every match he referees. He's going to start a riot one day, the sort of thing we saw at Chelsea-Spurs last season.
Clattenburg is a genuinely awful referee though, always has to be the centre of attention and seems to make one hugely controversial call every match he referees. He's going to start a riot one day, the sort of thing we saw at Chelsea-Spurs last season.
Isn't it weird that for each name said, that it cannot be said "yeah this is a decent ref" ?
Well that's why they got relegated, they are all known to act like twats too. Castro or Thual has been accused of wumming players too.
Maybe we should start sending him boxes of frosted donuts with orange crust parts(
) every week and never ever display any kind of banners that refer to him or any other referee so he could ease it off with us. When up until now there was no influence at all, maybe it would be viable to throw there something really 'soft' so he could at least balance his mental relation with our club, the cnut!Chelsea Spurs was the best game of last season, a proper game between 2 teams desperate to win and a ref who understood that it might boil over from time to time. Give me football like that each and every day of the week compared to a lot of the boring garbage that is served up in the PL.
To me it seems wrong to call out the ref for how he handled an enthralling game.
I can't agree that Clattenberg is awful, there are certainly worse officials in the PL.
Clattenburg just had a shite game. I can't imagine how hard that job is. We all have the benefit of hindsight (through 500000 camera's), they have to make the decision then and there. Are they sometimes influenced by crowds? Well obviously, since they're not robots. But this conspiracy they just hate is tripe is nonsense. Especially from the genius ref who thinks 3 yellow cards equal 1 red card.
Exactly. Once refs realize that they will have to justify and defend their decisions in front of journos, they will stick to rules strictly so at least all teams will be judged under same criteria. So far, the refs can get away with pretty much all of their decisions even when they have a direct influence on results of matches though based on very very subjective opinions.
Also, since when do refs not suffer consequences? If you have a string af bad games as a ref, you won't be selected for CL games and other important fixtures. What else do you want them to suffer? Jail time?
Well stop defending the indefensible when you can't even remember said incident then, it's pretty simple.
To be fair to Poll, I remember him being a better referee than the ones we have today. Obviously his 3 yellow cards was a humiliating mistake that has scarred his career, but apart from that I can't remember him being too bad.
He is certainly entitled to his opinion, even if it is printed in the Mail
says the guy who lives in he past
It's very difficult to believe that somebody at this level would have trouble making the right call due to fan pressure. Unless there is concrete proof this type of bizarre and obnoxious opinions really create more trouble. Hopefully out fan base won't descend into the "league is bent" and "referees are biased" conspiracy theories.
Poll is being paid to write columns. The more controversial the view, the more it will be lapped up by the news hungry fans and more clicks on the website. I refuse to believe that he genuinely feels that Clattenburg is biased.
Poll is being paid to write columns. The more controversial the view, the more it will be lapped up by the news hungry fans and more clicks on the website. I refuse to believe that he genuinely feels that Clattenburg is biased.
He looks like a complete arsewipe. Should be demoted to reffing in championship or something
Clattenburg is often good but sometimes he loses his mind and doesn't treat both teams equally and it's often due to how the fans or players reacted to one of his decisions, I think that most people noticed that. He has nothing against United and the league isn't bent, Clattenburg just has a flaw.
You could be right.
Didn't he give the Nani goal against Spurs a few years back, when Gomes dropped he ball?
He did and funnily enough Scholes pushed him a few seconds before.
How about not getting a game for half a year? Or refereeing a couple of leagues below, where wages are much less. That would be a good start.
Scholes pushed Clattenburg? How'd he get away with that?
This season has really brought home how shite the standard of officiating has become, and it's not acceptable in an age where technology allows us to see this stuff happen seconds later from 12 different angles.
It's time for the PL to start using video replay for refs and stop with this ridiculous nonsense about it 'breaking the flow of the game' or 'undermining the authority of the ref'. It would no more break the flow of a game than the ref going to speak to a linesman, and the refs are currently a laughing stock anyway.
It's time for the PL to start using video replay for refs and stop with this ridiculous nonsense about it 'breaking the flow of the game' or 'undermining the authority of the ref'. It would no more break the flow of a game than the ref going to speak to a linesman, and the refs are currently a laughing stock anyway.
You're boring me now, grow up.
If the ref didn't stop the play for handball then this goal is legit.
I agree. This discussion is not about Clattenburg being partisan or having bias.
The discussion is that he seems to try and feck teams that get on his back.
That's allowing external influences affect your decision, but in the opposite direction.
The consequences are still the same.
Sure, but at what point do you relegate a referee for half a year. I imagine they have contracts just like players do and you can't just cut their wage in half after they give a wrongful penalty. And players don't suffer these consequences either. I'm pretty sure Rooney is still making 350.000k a week. Thing is, refereeing is a shite job. You're the only one in the world who is withheld the video footage that makes it immediately visible if he made the right decision or not. Just think about it, it's absolutely insane. Why can't a team just say, okay we don't buy this decision we want to look at the situation again. Then if they're right, they can call on it again. If they're wrong, that's it. It's not hard.
Don't know who I hate more from last game, that narcissitic nincompoop of a referee or slap-me-coz-i'm scouse Flannagan.
I've seen Clattenburg have plenty of good games but whenever we get him he seems to have a shocker. Loves sending our players off. Poll has made some serious accusations here but they wouldn't surprise me at all if they were true. The guy just seems to have a chip on his shoulder and likes making big calls every game.
Truth is every referee has certain weaknesses that fans who watch them consistently know inside out.
We know refs who have "weak" characteristics: they'll favour the home team wherever possible, particularly bigger teams with larger crowds. They rarely make a key decision in the first 20 mins of a game or last 10 mins of a game for fear of "ruining" it. Their decisions are completely different dependent on the scoreline, so a team that's a few goals up or a few goals down will generally get the benefit of a key decision, as it will be somewhat meaningless.
Likewise we know refs that go out of their way to act "strong", to cover up their inadequacies: they actively ref 60/40 against the bigger teams (or home teams) so as to appear strong and unbiased. If they've been accused of favouring a team, they will actively ref against them to quash the myth. They will dish out cards inconsistently depending more on how the game is going, rather than the merit of the tackle (ie if they think they're losing control, instead of managing the game to calm things down, such as talking to the captains and bringing back play to slowing the game down, they will brandish cards for identical fouls than have been previously let go).
What we need is a full analysis of every referee. A panel should go through every card (or failure to card) and every important decision for every game to create a referee "profile". From this data you could ascertain not only incorrect decisions, but patterns of inadequacy. This wouldn't be used against the referee in terms of demotions, but would be used to help him improve on weaknesses. Straight away I think you'd see referee's who only give yellow and red cards in certain situations and at certain times. I'm certain this would highlight refs who are physically unfit and whose decisions consequently get worse and less consistent the longer the game goes on. I think you'd see referee's who fear giving decisions against the big teams (particularly at their home grounds), as well as referee's who actively seek the spotlight by giving decisions against the big teams.
If you wanted to know everything about Clattenberg as a ref just watch the similarities between the match at the weekend and the 5 - 3 Leicester game. On the flip side we've had him as a ref a few times in big games where he has no point to prove and he's generally been a good referee.
We know refs who have "weak" characteristics: they'll favour the home team wherever possible, particularly bigger teams with larger crowds. They rarely make a key decision in the first 20 mins of a game or last 10 mins of a game for fear of "ruining" it. Their decisions are completely different dependent on the scoreline, so a team that's a few goals up or a few goals down will generally get the benefit of a key decision, as it will be somewhat meaningless.
Likewise we know refs that go out of their way to act "strong", to cover up their inadequacies: they actively ref 60/40 against the bigger teams (or home teams) so as to appear strong and unbiased. If they've been accused of favouring a team, they will actively ref against them to quash the myth. They will dish out cards inconsistently depending more on how the game is going, rather than the merit of the tackle (ie if they think they're losing control, instead of managing the game to calm things down, such as talking to the captains and bringing back play to slowing the game down, they will brandish cards for identical fouls than have been previously let go).
What we need is a full analysis of every referee. A panel should go through every card (or failure to card) and every important decision for every game to create a referee "profile". From this data you could ascertain not only incorrect decisions, but patterns of inadequacy. This wouldn't be used against the referee in terms of demotions, but would be used to help him improve on weaknesses. Straight away I think you'd see referee's who only give yellow and red cards in certain situations and at certain times. I'm certain this would highlight refs who are physically unfit and whose decisions consequently get worse and less consistent the longer the game goes on. I think you'd see referee's who fear giving decisions against the big teams (particularly at their home grounds), as well as referee's who actively seek the spotlight by giving decisions against the big teams.
If you wanted to know everything about Clattenberg as a ref just watch the similarities between the match at the weekend and the 5 - 3 Leicester game. On the flip side we've had him as a ref a few times in big games where he has no point to prove and he's generally been a good referee.
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But thats exactly what i was saying mate. He's mentally weak if he is so easily swayed, referees should be impartial no matter which team/manager/players they are officiating and how they personally feel about those people because of things that they may have said to them before, during or after games.
Clattenburg having said all that in the last few years has been quite clearly biased against United. So as far as i'm concerned he isn't able to be impartial towards United. He should have never been allowed to ref us again after Ferguson publicly supported him after the Chelsea incident and United fans making a banner for him. Since then he hasn't given us a thing.
Nah mate only 2 of them were penalties, but thats besides the point. There have been many stonewall penalties down the years in United/Liverpool matches for both sides. Both sides will get the odd one here and there but with the how big and tense United/Liverpool matches are and how in depth every decision will be scrutinized Refs often seem reluctant to give 1 penalty never mind 2 in one of those games.
Clattenburg gave fecking 3 in one game to the away side. Make no mistake he was making a statement that day, if he had reffed the same match two years prior theres no way he would have given 3 pens to one side.
How many times has that even happened in PL history?
Such a boring opinion, really.
So because United couldn't finish their chances referees don't have to do their job properly? Ok.
No, United not being able to finish their chances is a petty and extremely childish reason to start having a go at the ref and basically accuse him of being a cheat.
He didn't realise Herrera slipped and decided Darmian's dive like way of falling over wasn't worthy of a penalty. Hardly the biggest injustices ever seen on a football pitch.
Self pity, excuse making and crying about things the team has no control over is boring, and pointless.
Agree actually.
The Herrera slip was a big mistake but the Darmian decision was entirely understandable given the way he went down. Beyond that, meh.
Which isn't to say he isn't a shite ref. Just that this wasn't even one of his worst performances, or one of the worst performances I've seen against us generally.
The Herrera slip was a big mistake but the Darmian decision was entirely understandable given the way he went down. Beyond that, meh.
Which isn't to say he isn't a shite ref. Just that this wasn't even one of his worst performances, or one of the worst performances I've seen against us generally.