Greatest Champions League runs & wins?

[tomaldinho1]

Nah, that Juve side was really really good, I'd put them on the same level as this Chelsea maybe, though I'm not so sure. Definitely weaker than City and Liverpool. And yes, they really are that good imo. Very clearly so.

Speaking of PSG: 14/15 was perhaps the one time they were actually really great and didn't vomit and shit all over themselves in CL. They just got to the Barcelona game missing Zlatan, Verratti, then lost Thiago Silva 10 minutes into the game. Soon as Thiago went out, David Luiz took over as defensive leader and promptly reminded the world what happened the last this had happened

Can’t help but think recency bias is really coming into play here. This Chelsea team have been average this season, flirting with great performances before yo-yo-ing into stupid losses and draws. By what metric would you have them above Juve 14/15??

I agree Pool and City have a case to be superior but I genuinely think it’s insane you’d argue Chelsea this season are better than that Juve.

PS I do miss Luiz, so many great moments of hilarity in his career.

 

[GuybrushThreepwood]

It's Barca 14/15 - on the pure basis of genuine dominance throughout. No questioning of any of their ties. RM, for some of their runs, every year, people are saying something about them... their 99/00 run is probably the best one, but then Bayern do the identical run the next year too, except flip the Bayern-RM result.

For me considering a combination of factors such as performances and dominance round by round, ‘luck dependence’ and the standard of opponents, I also think that Barca’s run 14/15 was the best overall one that I can remember. Plus that was all combined with their La Liga title race vs. Real and Copa Del Rey run (during which they beat Atleti home and away).

But it’a all subjective of course. Real have had numerous hugely impressive draws including this most recent one.

 

[giorno]

Can’t help but think recency bias is really coming into play here. This Chelsea team have been average this season, flirting with great performances before yo-yo-ing into stupid losses and draws. By what metric would you have them above Juve 14/15??

Higher level of peak performance, which is what matters in CL. That Juve side wouldn't have done any better in english football of 2021/22. They won in Italy against a fairly weak field. Napoli outplayed and beaten by Athletic Bilbao in the playoffs, Roma - Juve's only real challenger - lost 7-1 at home to Bayern and were clearly levels below that season's City, etc...

Napoli and Fiorentina were decent at EL level. They were basically comparable to this season's West Ham...the Milan clubs were shite on a stick. Juventus weren't even that dominant in Italy in terms of performances, just so much more talented than everybody else. In fact, I would put them on the level of this season's Real Madrid, except without the actual best player in the world and winning mentality

The Juve side of 16/17 now, that was a genuinely great side

 

[Red the Bear]

Higher level of peak performance, which is what matters in CL. That Juve side wouldn't have done any better in english football of 2021/22. They won in Italy against a fairly weak field. Napoli outplayed and beaten by Athletic Bilbao in the playoffs, Roma - Juve's only real challenger - lost 7-1 at home to Bayern and were clearly levels below that season's City, etc...

Napoli and Fiorentina were decent at EL level. They were basically comparable to this season's West Ham...the Milan clubs were shite on a stick. Juventus weren't even that dominant in Italy in terms of performances, just so much more talented than everybody else. In fact, I would put them on the level of this season's Real Madrid, except without the actual best player in the world and winning mentality

The Juve side of 16/17 now, that was a genuinely great side

You're selling them a bit short here as they did came awfully close to beating that barca side in the final,prior to that they beat you lot rather convincingly as well.
It could be argued that this was the deciding moment in that final seeing how they immediately conceded afterwards.

 

[giorno]

You're selling them a bit short here as they did came awfully close to beating that barca side in the final,prior to that they beat you lot rather convincingly as well.
It could be argued that this was the deciding moment in that final seeing how they immediately conceded afterwards.

I really don't. They were good enough to make the final, and as we've just seen, you don't need to be a historically great side to win the CL. Even if you're up *against* historically great sides

They didn't beat us convincingly at all either. They needed the miracle of a century by fecking STURARO of all people to save them in the first leg at home - where we started Sergio Ramos in midfield and no Benzema - a ridiculous brainfart by Carvajal and a somewhat accidental goal at the Bernabeu. We were running on fumes much in the same way as last year against chelsea, and juventus barely squeaked past

 

[MalaysianRed7]

I don’t think you can get a harder draw than what we got in 1999. Bayern in the group stage and final, Barca, and Inter and Juve when Italian football was at its peak. Even Brondby were not too shabby at the time. They beat Bayern in the group.

Real Madrid’s knockout stage this season was ridiculous though. Aside from probably Bayern instead of Chelsea, you can’t get four tougher teams to beat if you asked for them. Someone mentioned Barca 2014-15, which is a very good shout. Otherwise, I guess you have to go back to a bygone era when only league Champions qualified for the European Cup.

 

[Red the Bear]

I really don't. They were good enough to make the final, and as we've just seen, you don't need to be a historically great side to win the CL. Even if you're up *against* historically great sides

They didn't beat us convincingly at all either. They needed the miracle of a century by fecking STURARO of all people to save them in the first leg at home - where we started Sergio Ramos in midfield and no Benzema - a ridiculous brainfart by Carvajal and a somewhat accidental goal at the Bernabeu. We were running on fumes much in the same way as last year against chelsea, and juventus barely squeaked past

I mean fair enough but I just can't agree with that , you were an extraordinary dude at the time and they still managed to beat you, obviously a close game but that's the case most of the time in these high stake games.

Still they were at least more consistent than this years Chelsea (who were uncharacteristically mistakeful in that first game at the Bridge) and a bottling psg side

 

[giorno]

I mean fair enough but I just can't agree with that , you were an extraordinary dude at the time and they still managed to beat you, obviously a close game but that's the case most of the time in these high stake games.

Not taking that away from them, they were GOOD. But not nearly on the level of the truly great sides of that era, or this one. Not unlike Chelsea

Still they were at least more consistent than this years Chelsea (who were uncharacteristically mistakeful in that first game at the Bridge) and a bottling psg side

They were only more consistent than Chelsea because they mostly played weaker opposition. Consistency isn't as important in CL though, where things like injuries, form, peak level and luck are what decides ties. The level of performance shown by Chelsea at the Bernabeu was way beyond anything Juventus did that season

And yes, Chelsea gifted us the tie in the first half at SB. Tuchel just straight up served it up for us on a platter, then Mendy's mistake finished them off

 

[Red the Bear]

Not taking that away from them, they were GOOD. But not nearly on the level of the truly great sides of that era, or this one. Not unlike Chelsea


They were only more consistent than Chelsea because they mostly played weaker opposition. Consistency isn't as important in CL though, where things like injuries, form, peak level and luck are what decides ties. The level of performance shown by Chelsea at the Bernabeu was way beyond anything Juventus did that season

And yes, Chelsea gifted us the tie in the first half at SB. Tuchel just straight up served it up for us on a platter, then Mendy's mistake finished them off

Fair enough, you certainly have a valid case regarding Chelsea considering that they won the whole thing last year.

Still disagree with it

Anyway cheers!

 

[tomaldinho1]

Higher level of peak performance, which is what matters in CL. That Juve side wouldn't have done any better in english football of 2021/22. They won in Italy against a fairly weak field. Napoli outplayed and beaten by Athletic Bilbao in the playoffs, Roma - Juve's only real challenger - lost 7-1 at home to Bayern and were clearly levels below that season's City, etc...

Napoli and Fiorentina were decent at EL level. They were basically comparable to this season's West Ham...the Milan clubs were shite on a stick. Juventus weren't even that dominant in Italy in terms of performances, just so much more talented than everybody else. In fact, I would put them on the level of this season's Real Madrid, except without the actual best player in the world and winning mentality

The Juve side of 16/17 now, that was a genuinely great side

Not sure about that, I think you’re overrating Chelsea. I loved Tevez up top for that Juve team and how it made them play, I know Pipita scored more goals but I think 14/15 is underrated and they had more grit/aggression in those earlier Allegri years (maybe a memory of Conte’s time there).

I don’t see the point in trying to compare with reference to where other teams finish - Bayern are usually top drawer in the CL whereas usually the 2nd and 3rd placed BL teams usually do poorly but that doesn’t make me think Bayern are lesser. Also Roma weren’t a challenger, they finished 17 points behind them.

Actual best player in the world, the evergreen Modric.

 

[giorno]

Not sure about that, I think you’re overrating Chelsea. I loved Tevez up top for that Juve team and how it made them play, I know Pipita scored more goals but I think 14/15 is underrated and they had more grit/aggression in those earlier Allegri years (maybe a memory of Conte’s time there).

Italian, obviously watch serie A. Dunno mate. Much as that juve side was really genuinely good, they never really gave the impression of being truly great. Tevez was phenomenal, i'll give you that, and in terms of individual talent they were arguably the best juventus side of the decade. But they never really played like it. In attack they were overly reliant on Tevez and sometimes Pogba or Pirlo to pull up trees, they were really tough to break down but not nearly to the level they reached in subsequent seasons, and never really looked like a dominant side. Mostly they were a really good/great side that consistently performed like a very good side/great side. Never really looked like a truly great side to me. They went up a level in the 15-18 period

Don't think they had it in them to play at the level Chelsea did at their best this season. They just never did imo

Actual best player in the world, the evergreen Modric.

Karim Benzema

 

[tomaldinho1]

Italian, obviously watch serie A. Dunno mate. Much as that juve side was really genuinely good, they never really gave the impression of being truly great. Tevez was phenomenal, i'll give you that, and in terms of individual talent they were arguably the best juventus side of the decade. But they never really played like it. In attack they were overly reliant on Tevez and sometimes Pogba or Pirlo to pull up trees, they were really tough to break down but not nearly to the level they reached in subsequent seasons, and never really looked like a dominant side. Mostly they were a really good/great side that consistently performed like a very good side/great side. Never really looked like a truly great side to me. They went up a level in the 15-18 period

Don't think they had it in them to play at the level Chelsea did at their best this season. They just never did imo


Karim Benzema

Maybe I just expected a lot more from Chelsea this season - admittedly they have had periods of playing amazing football but they have repeatedly failed to get over the line in games where it mattered, 2 x cup finals and the CL were games they were very able to win (CL especially they dominated Real for most of the tie and went out due to stupid errors) but they lost them all. That Juve side whilst I’m not saying were one of the great teams of all time, were definitely more able to manage games, shut other teams down and get wins when they needed to. They were just unlucky they came up against Enrique’s Barca (who for me are the best club side I’ve seen) and even in that final it was close, Neymar’s late goal kind of makes the fact it was tight and they could have had a penalty for Alves challenge on Pogba right before Barca scored. Both teams going for a treble as well, what a final.

 

[giorno]

Maybe I just expected a lot more from Chelsea this season - admittedly they have had periods of playing amazing football but they have repeatedly failed to get over the line in games where it mattered, 2 x cup finals and the CL were games they were very able to win (CL especially they dominated Real for most of the tie and went out due to stupid errors) but they lost them all. That Juve side whilst I’m not saying were one of the great teams of all time, were definitely more able to manage games, shut other teams down and get wins when they needed to. They were just unlucky they came up against Enrique’s Barca (who for me are the best club side I’ve seen) and even in that final it was close, Neymar’s late goal kind of makes the fact it was tight and they could have had a penalty for Alves challenge on Pogba right before Barca scored. Both teams going for a treble as well, what a final.

The final really wasn't close. Juventus had a good 10 minutes spell after their goal which kind of shook barcelona, then they scored the 2-1 and it was over. It was almost insultingly uncompetitive for 80 minutes, not unlike the 2011 final except for how Barcelona reacted to the equalizer

Yes chelsea failed to get over the line in big games, but they were extremely competitive in all of them. I don't think juventus would have been competitive in the finals against liverpool. They would have against real madrid, but wouldn't have been outright better over the tie like chelsea and probably would have lost anyways. I mean put Courtois in that 14/15 season instead of Iker(who was finished by that point), and juventus don't make the final, despite Real Madrid being ravaged by injuries and running on fumes...