Greatest European Cup/Champions League player(s) of all time?

[Fortitude]

By the way, I made this thread precisely because it's not clear cut who is the 'best' when we look solely at performance within this competition alone. I actually think it's the greatest leveler between those two who shall not be named that there is. Allied to that, putting all the names up there puts a different perspective on age-old names, especially so when we consider who is not even mentioned.

I can't see how the answer can be anything but Di Stefano for how utterly dominant he was in all phases of play, not just his goal record in the competition, but it's certainly a threadworthy discussion.

 

[Sky1981]

Messi's style of play means he'll be able to continue to play at the highest level long after his physicality has declined. I don't think that's the same for Ronaldo whose style of play demands a lot more of his body. Though he's such an athletic freak that while most players would've took a massive decline physically by now he's still fit as a fiddle.

Imho its the same. The thing messi does may look like they don't require much in term of physicality but that doesn't mean he's not affected. A split second slower for ronaldo imho isn't as detrimental as a split second slower in messi game. He needs that extra agility to pull his moves and sometime that extra split second is what it takes.

 

[Oldyella]

It all comes down to how Barca do in the Champions League this year and how Argentina does in the world cup. If either of those teams do well it will go to him. The voters love to find reasons why to give it to him and not CR7. I know that titles shouldn't decide who gets the Ballon d'Or but unfortunately it does. With that being said, this could be the first time in a long time that we see a new player being crowned as "the best"...

I think thats unfair. Generally speaking, their stats have been similar to the point whoevers team has performed better, has generally won out.

 

[whatwha]

5, I think. Have 2 in great quality too.

5 of 58 European Cup games - less than 10%. Just saying. But at least you have actually watched some of his games in full, giving you some basis for comparison.

Maybe I'm a skeptical bastard but it always seems a little fake and contrived when guys who were born in the 1990s start talking up players who were active in the 1950s as the best ever.

But maybe some people are just way bigger football fanatics than I am and they actually watch really old games and take a serious interest in long gone players. (More likely they just watched some highlights on Youtube though)

 

[RedRonaldo]

Its really between Ronaldo and Di Stefano. Either of them have equally strong claims to be GOAT in CL/EC.

I'd give my final vote for Ronaldo, because he had accomplished all these during Messi prime era (and outshines him), which is lot harder.

 

[Mr. MUJAC]

Exactly, it is ridiculous. I highly doubt someone sat there watching all their games either. This is why I will never put a rating on Maradona. I never saw him play and fine maybe he was the GOAT if people say but I can't compare him to any players. I am not going to go by some highlights I saw from youtube.

I understand that completely.

A lot of people don't have time to do lot's of research.

However, for those who do a lot of research on the history of the game then they would be able to offer a valid opinion based on that...regardless of whether they saw them play or not.

 

[RoyH1]

You would want to compare the amount of games they've played — it was a completely different competition.

You're absolutely right. Not to mention the unspeakable atrocities defenders were allowed to do to you back in the day

 

[Physiocrat]

Exactly, it is ridiculous. I highly doubt someone sat there watching all their games either. This is why I will never put a rating on Maradona. I never saw him play and fine maybe he was the GOAT if people say but I can't compare him to any players. I am not going to go by some highlights I saw from youtube.

1. Full games of Maradona et Al are easily viewable on YouTube or on Footballia

2. If you don't want to do full games all touch compilations (normally named Player Vs eg. Netzer vs) are a good indication of a player as it is taken from one game to see what they do all game. Obviously not as good as a full game but much better than a highlight reel

 

[shamans]

1. Full games of Maradona et Al are easily viewable on YouTube or on Footballia

2. If you don't want to do full games all touch compilations (normally named Player Vs eg. Netzer vs) are a good indication of a player as it is taken from one game to see what they do all game. Obviously not as good as a full game but much better than a highlight reel

Well if you really watch a full game then power to you and fine but come on, most people who make these judgements have not seen full matches. Touches, I'm not sure about. You just don't get full context of the game in touches.

 

[Inter Yer Nan]

I can really only comment on the Champions League era so last quarter of a century and I think you've got to say Cristiano Ronaldo is #1. The dominant player of two different clubs that won it and has four overall titles and the best goalscorer in the competitions history in addition to being the highest scorer in finals and big games in general.

I haven't seen Raul's name in this thread. He's surely worth a mention? He was absolutely key in 3 champions league wins in addition to being the all-time leading goalscorer until the martians (CR & Messi) took over. Raul is right up there for me.

 

[Physiocrat]

Well if you really watch a full game then power to you and fine but come on, most people who make these judgements have not seen full matches. Touches, I'm not sure about. You just don't get full context of the game in touches.

You can't get the context in the touches compilations but you can get a good idea of the player and their average level (much better than highlights - a good example is Alvaro Recoba who is clearly basically anonymous for most of the game before producing some magic).

I do get most aren't interested in historic matches but if you need your football fix and it's Stoke Vs West Brom or nothing I recommend a classic game. Games from the late 70s onwards are recognisably modern. I would recommend especially in this context the Real vs Eintracht Frankfurt 1960 final.

 

[harms]

5 of 58 European Cup games - less than 10%. Just saying. But at least you have actually watched some of his games in full, giving you some basis for comparison.

Maybe I'm a skeptical bastard but it always seems a little fake and contrived when guys who were born in the 1990s start talking up players who were active in the 1950s as the best ever.

But maybe some people are just way bigger football fanatics than I am and they actually watch really old games and take a serious interest in long gone players. (More likely they just watched some highlights on Youtube though)

Enough to make a general impression, considering the amount of other information available. I haven't seen tons of group games by Messi and Ronaldo, for example, I'm guessing my percentage with them won't be that much better.

 

[kidbob]

Roy Keane in 99 was the best single performance I've seen in the Champions League. Made that great Juve midfield, including the mercurial Zidane, his absolute bitch. Not unusual for him of course as he was used to dominating better opposition with Ireland. As for best player it's got to be Ronaldo. His stats and achievements back this up and this is coming from someone who wouldn't put him close to Messi in terms of ability.

 

[Lord SInister]

5 of 58 European Cup games - less than 10%. Just saying. But at least you have actually watched some of his games in full, giving you some basis for comparison.

Maybe I'm a skeptical bastard but it always seems a little fake and contrived when guys who were born in the 1990s start talking up players who were active in the 1950s as the best ever.

But maybe some people are just way bigger football fanatics than I am and they actually watch really old games and take a serious interest in long gone players. (More likely they just watched some highlights on Youtube though)

That is much better percentage than the majority of Messi and Cristiano fanbois, who hardly watch Real or Barca games, and go on quarreling as if that is the most important thing to do apart from eating food.

 

[Moby]

Cristiano
Di Stefano
Maldini

for me.

 

[RooneyLegend]

Di Stefano scored 49 European Cup goals in his career, Ronaldo’s scored 44 since he’s turned 30.

All Di Stefano goals are post 29.

 

[Peyroteo]

All Di Stefano goals are post 29.

Should have been born a few years later then

 

[Infordin]

Out of interest - if most people seem to suggest Ronaldo > Messi in the CL then why do more people not claim Ronaldo > Messi in the all time GOAT rankings?

In the GOAT conversation Messi seems to be ranked higher than Ronaldo by most people, yet Ronaldo is deemed to be the greater player in the CL (the premier club competition)...

Because Messi has more raw ability than Ronaldo. Messi can do things with a football that Ronaldo cannot. Messi’s technical ability is a tier above Ronaldo.

Maradona never won the European Cup, while Gerd Muller won it 3 times. Maradona is still wildly regarded as the much greater player, because he was simply better at football.

 

[Peyroteo]

Because Messi has more raw ability than Ronaldo. Messi can do things with a football that Ronaldo cannot. Messi’s technical ability is a tier above Ronaldo.

Maradona never won the European Cup, while Gerd Muller won it 3 times. Maradona is still wildly regarded as the much greater player, because he was simply better at football.

Ben Arfa > Inzaghi

 

[InfiniteBoredom]

Ben Arfa > Inzaghi

If Ben Arfa has been anywhere near successful as Inzaghi then you’d have a point.

 

[overrated 92's]

The biggest difference is that if you're not a Madrid or United supporter, CR7 is a lot easier to hate. You won't find very many neutrals who hate Messi. CR7 has a bad "on field" reputation for most neutrals. But off the field there aren't many around who do more for the "little people" than CR7. Even though his antics are sometimes questionable during a game, he really is a class act and a born winner. He gets my vote every time (mind you I'm too young to really know some of the other candidates other than by watching youtube videos). But when it comes down to Messi and CR7, rather than picking one over the other, we should feel blessed to not only get to watch the 2 greatest players of all time (in my opinion) play week in and week out, but we get to also watch them play against each other...

I don't see it as ''picking'' one of the other, its as clear as the nose on your face that Messi is and was the far better player, so there really is no need to pick, really never understood the love Ronaldo get from fellow United fans, sure I like him, and applauded him on his return to OT, but its gets more than a bit cringeworthy read some of the stuff from fellow United fans about a player who couldn't wait to get to Real.

 

[Snow]

Easily Ronaldo. The competition is much fiercer now and the tournaments are longer which makes it easier to slip up along the way. The first tournament was 7 games if you made it to the final and composed of teams chosen by a magazine. Teams now have to play 13 games to win it, 15 if they didn't automatically qualify.

I just can't compare the competition today to what it was 9 years after WWII were pretty much every team played 3-2-5. Also, Di Stefano was very much a forward for Real in that competition.

 

[King7Eric]

In the first five seasons Di Stefano scored 35 goals in 36 seasons...I'd hate to think how many he would have scored if there were group games in those days.

While some of the teams at the time were part-time at best, it is comparable to a weak Group opponent who gets thrashed by a modern day giant. In the semi-finals, Real beat Milan, Barcelona, Athletico Madrid and our own Busby Babes so not all games were walk-overs.

I think it's impossible to differentiate two masters in Di Stefano and Ronaldo but from vastly different eras.

This. Even if football was not so "developed"( for the lack of a better word) in those days, the European Cup was only for champions of their league. Also talent was more equally spread over all leagues those days unlike now. So De Stefano only played against the very best sides in this competition and did not have cannon fodder against which to score goals, something from which Messi and Ronaldo have benefitted.

 

[roonster09]

Because Messi has more raw ability than Ronaldo. Messi can do things with a football that Ronaldo cannot. Messi’s technical ability is a tier above Ronaldo.

Maradona never won the European Cup, while Gerd Muller won it 3 times. Maradona is still wildly regarded as the much greater player, because he was simply better at football.

That's very generous to Ronaldo. I would say Messi is miles better than Ronaldo when it comes to technical ablity (I'm talking about Dribbling, passing both short and long and also killer passes).

 

[Invictus]

Can't decide — Ronaldo's recent hijinks have ensured that grandmaster Di Stéfano is no longer the default answer after a bit of deliberation. This is like having to choose between Fangio and Schumacher in that the context of the respective eras is so disparate that it might well have been an entirely different competition, and not just a rebrand, even accounting for the common denominator of their potency in the final stages. Push comes to shove, I'd still opt for Di Stéfano, but only just.

Though funnily enough neither would feature on my European Cup/Champions League XI...Di Stéfano will likely butt heads with Xavi, and Ronaldo isn't a very coherent fit for the approach.

Spoiler

 

[Schneckerl]

ok I said CR7 earlier, but please look at all their KO games performances year by year and I'm not sure. it's extremely close

Cristiano happened to have his best run last year while Messi was underwhelming in the past 5 years other than 14/15

 

[Cal?]

Cristiano
Di Stefano
Maldini

 

[BlackShark_80]

1. Di Stefano
2. Cristiano
3. Messi
4. Cruyff
5. Beckenbauer

 

[United never give up]

Out of interest, how do people see Messi performing in the CL in the future/once Ronaldo declines?

Will Messi's CL legacy ever equal/overtake Ronaldo's? Or do his recent CL knockout stage performances indicate that he can no longer win the big CL matches consistently like he did from 2009-2012 (+2015)

 

[Ronaldo's Mum Eh?]

Didn't know Messi is only on 97 goals while Ronnie is on 117.

That can't be right?

 

[roonster09]

Voted Messi. Ronaldo has scored lot of goals and more than Messi but the way Messi plays and plays so many roles is simply awesome.

 

[GuyfromAustria]

Didn't know Messi is only on 97 goals while Ronnie is on 117.

That can't be right?

They were about level at the start of 2015/16, but Ronaldo scored 10 goals more that season (16 vs. 6) and has 8(?) more goals this year, so the numbers should be right.

 

[giorno]

Out of interest, how do people see Messi performing in the CL in the future/once Ronaldo declines?

Will Messi's CL legacy ever equal/overtake Ronaldo's? Or do his recent CL knockout stage performances indicate that he can no longer win the big CL matches consistently like he did from 2009-2012 (+2015)

Was fantastic against juve in turin last season. 14/15 was one of the greatest individual CL seasons ever, in 12/13 caused a PSG meltdown playing 20 minutes on one leg just with his presence alone(in hindsight, the signs for psg's european metldowns were there)....

If we compare Messi and Cristiano's performances on a game by game basis over the last 8 and 1/2 seasons, i don't think there'll be much difference overall, if at all

 

[Gio]

Though funnily enough neither would feature on my European Cup/Champions League XI...Di Stéfano will likely butt heads with Xavi, and Ronaldo isn't a very coherent fit for the approach.

Spoiler

Yeah I’m glad someone else tried to assemble that impossible bunch of attackers into a cohesive XI. Agree on Di Stefano/Ronaldo - fundamentally different competitions so statistical comparisons don’t tell us a lot. One defined and popularised the tournament and the other boasts the most decisive series of performances over a sustained period.

 

[strongwalker]

Gerd Müller. In pre-"bloated CL with group stage" mode, he played in 77 european cup matches and scored 69 goals. This is over all 3 competitions, UEFA, Cup winners, champions. In the champions cup, his tally was 31 goals in 32 matches.

 

[Enigma_87]

1. Di Stefano
2. Cristiano
3. Messi
4. Cruyff
5. Beckenbauer

I'd agree with that. Probably Cruyff deserves to go up one or 2 places considering the influence he had in terms of a star man during those wins.

 

[Cal?]

Was fantastic against juve in turin last season. 14/15 was one of the greatest individual CL seasons ever, in 12/13 caused a PSG meltdown playing 20 minutes on one leg just with his presence alone(in hindsight, the signs for psg's european metldowns were there)....

If we compare Messi and Cristiano's performances on a game by game basis over the last 8 and 1/2 seasons, i don't think there'll be much difference overall, if at all

seriously?

Messi has shown up for one season out of the last 6 in the CL, even that year he’s nowhere near the impact Cristiano made in 16/17.

 

[giorno]

seriously?

Messi has shown up for one season out of the last 6 in the CL, even that year he’s nowhere near the impact Cristiano made in 16/17.

He's had great games even in "poor" seasons. Just like Cristiano has had some "poor" games in great seasons

 

[bebeanderson]

Honestly Marcelo has to be up there with Seedorf and others. I can't even recall a big game where he wasn't one of the best on the pitch. Even going back to 2014 final where he was instrumental, he wasn't that popular at the time and he performed amazing. I remember how the media preferred to laud Bale because he scored a tap in despite playing poorly. Winning 3 CL whilst being a top3 performer in basically every big game is a huge feet.

 

[Fortitude]

You have to say Ronaldo's run of games last season was the stuff of legend - a Platini '84 or Maradona '86 club equivalent. It's not often you get to say that about Ronaldo, but last season has probably taken him up to a notch Messi is not going to match in this competition. Blowing by name teams as Ronaldo did is what makes it extra special. Doing that to Bayern, Atletico and Juventus in succession is ridiculous.

I voted for Di Stefano and I'd take Cruyff second but definitely C.Ronaldo for the CL iteration of the competition.

Messi will have to do something astonishing to level things up or come out on top now.