Greenwood or Martinelli

roonster09

Hercule Poirot of the scouting world
Scout
Joined
May 10, 2009
Messages
31,540
1 good month and now it's "wow how awesome is arsenal for young players and why they should leave ManUtd" :lol:
 

smi11ie

Not a philogynist
Newbie
Joined
May 4, 2017
Messages
755
Location
Buri Ram
Supports
Rangers
Utd have huge motivational problems so it is hard to say who is actually more talented. Martinelli seems more aggresive and dangerous.
 

ThierryHenry14

Full Member
Joined
Dec 30, 2015
Messages
1,532
Supports
Arsenal
Utd have huge motivational problems so it is hard to say who is actually more talented. Martinelli seems more aggresive and dangerous.
I don't even know how people determine which player is more talented. It is not FIFA or FM. It takes more than just pace, dribbling and finishing for a player to succeed nowadays. Game time to develop, coach, tactic, a stable club environment, the mental strength of the player, understanding of the game etc are just as important. Just look at Dembele or Adama Traore, they have all the pace and dribbling when they were young, but both didn't develop very well.

On the other hand when you look at Foden's development in Man City, that is a complete different story.
 

Che Guevara

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Aug 29, 2018
Messages
712
Location
Wolverhampton
Supports
Celtic
In terms of development Martinelli is currently ahead of Greenwood. His workrate both in attack and defensively is phenomenal, he marks and puts in tackles, he covers both ends of the field very well, and he is fast and doesn't seem to tire easily. He is also better in the air and has scored several headers. Physically he is strong, something Arsenal players tend to lack. If he is played consistently and avoids injuries he will be a massive player.
 

Mogget

Full Member
Joined
Nov 27, 2013
Messages
5,588
Supports
Arsenal
1 good month and now it's "wow how awesome is arsenal for young players and why they should leave ManUtd" :lol:
I don't think it's laughable to think Greenwood would do better away from United. Look at how Foden has progressed at City. Look at how TAA is doing for Liverpool, even after going through that terrible run of form.

United are a circus and I don't see how that's good for a young player's development.
 

Pogue Mahone

Poster of the year 2008 & 2020
Joined
Feb 22, 2006
Messages
114,225
Location
"like a man in silk pyjamas shooting pigeons
In terms of development Martinelli is currently ahead of Greenwood. His workrate both in attack and defensively is phenomenal, he marks and puts in tackles, he covers both ends of the field very well, and he is fast and doesn't seem to tire easily. He is also better in the air and has scored several headers. Physically he is strong, something Arsenal players tend to lack. If he is played consistently and avoids injuries he will be a massive player.
That’s fair. Right now physical fitness and work ethic seems to be the biggest difference. Something that Rangnick has already identified as a priority to work on.
 

Pogue Mahone

Poster of the year 2008 & 2020
Joined
Feb 22, 2006
Messages
114,225
Location
"like a man in silk pyjamas shooting pigeons
I don't think it's laughable to think Greenwood would do better away from United. Look at how Foden has progressed at City. Look at how TAA is doing for Liverpool, even after going through that terrible run of form.

United are a circus and I don't see how that's good for a young player's development.
A weird thing for a gooner to say, considering the last few years at Arsenal. Did that hinder Saka et al?
 

Dancfc

Full Member
Joined
Oct 28, 2016
Messages
5,548
Supports
Chelsea
A thread comparing two young players on a platform at times known for kneejerk posts based on a players/managers last match is a recipe for a record amount of 180's.
 

Mogget

Full Member
Joined
Nov 27, 2013
Messages
5,588
Supports
Arsenal
A weird thing for a gooner to say, considering the last few years at Arsenal. Did that hinder Saka et al?
Probably. I'm not saying a young player won't improve but surely playing in a settled team under a world class manager would be better for their development than somewhere like Arsenal or United.
 

Ludens the Red

Full Member
Joined
Jul 27, 2009
Messages
15,394
Location
London
Greenwood is the superior talent. Natural ability etc.
However he doesn’t appear to have the mentality that Martinelli has. Who has already fought back from serious injury.
Greenwood sometimes appears to lack drive and his decision making is questionable, he’s also developed bad habits.
Also I know most clubs fans hype up their youngsters no end but United youngsters tend to get hyped up in the general media like no other club.
With no leaders at the club and no Sir Alex to reign someone like Greenwood in. Previous management allowed him to indulge and the consequence is a player who appears to think he’s already made the big time. You’ve seen this with lots of United youngsters post Fergie. Januzaj, Martial, Rashford, Lingard.

I don’t think that has necessarily been an issue at Arsenal as bad as it’s been there down the years.
As inadequate as say Arteta has been at times, he doesn’t strike me as someone who will let players constantly get away with shit. He’s been brave enough to bin off the likes of Ozil, Aubemeyang etc.

At arsenal there are consequences for playing shite and a lack of professionalism. At United you’re more likely to get a new contract for similar behaviour.
 

ThierryHenry14

Full Member
Joined
Dec 30, 2015
Messages
1,532
Supports
Arsenal
Just look at Jamie Vardy. He may not have the "talent" like greenwood or martinelli, he never has the chance to develop in big club when he was young either. However, look at his career I would say it is a great success. He has that street fighter mentality.
 

AjaxCunian

Full Member
Joined
Mar 10, 2021
Messages
2,005
Supports
Ajax & United
It is extremely hard to say no to the pay cheque in Man Utd until you are 26 and 27 like Martial and Lingaard. Greenwood get lots of playing time in Man Utd for the past 2 years so he won't go anywhere.
Yep, like most United players in the past 5 years. Prioritising a pay cheque above reaching their potential and winning trophies.
 

Big Poppa

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Dec 28, 2021
Messages
13
Supports
Arsenal
Greenwood is the superior talent. Natural ability etc.
However he doesn’t appear to have the mentality that Martinelli has. Who has already fought back from serious injury.
Greenwood sometimes appears to lack drive and his decision making is questionable, he’s also developed bad habits.
Also I know most clubs fans hype up their youngsters no end but United youngsters tend to get hyped up in the general media like no other club.
With no leaders at the club and no Sir Alex to reign someone like Greenwood in. Previous management allowed him to indulge and the consequence is a player who appears to think he’s already made the big time. You’ve seen this with lots of United youngsters post Fergie. Januzaj, Martial, Rashford, Lingard.

I don’t think that has necessarily been an issue at Arsenal as bad as it’s been there down the years.
As inadequate as say Arteta has been at times, he doesn’t strike me as someone who will let players constantly get away with shit. He’s been brave enough to bin off the likes of Ozil, Aubemeyang etc.

At arsenal there are consequences for playing shite and a lack of professionalism. At United you’re more likely to get a new contract for similar behaviour.
I detest these kinds of comparisons as between the age of 18 - 23, a players can fluctuate wildly in their development due to circumstances that have nothing to do with talent or ability.

From an Arsenal perspective, Martinelli, beyond just talent, has an outrageous work ethic but I always fear that he will get himself injured or burnt out chasing lost causes.

Greenwood is clearly an incredible talent too. He reminds me of RVP (without the bad temper) when he arrived from Feyenoord. Such an elegant player and makes difficult things look very easy, but suceptible to going down the wrong path if he doesn't get the right people around him. I'm sure he'll be fine though.
 

roonster09

Hercule Poirot of the scouting world
Scout
Joined
May 10, 2009
Messages
31,540
I don't think it's laughable to think Greenwood would do better away from United. Look at how Foden has progressed at City. Look at how TAA is doing for Liverpool, even after going through that terrible run of form.

United are a circus and I don't see how that's good for a young player's development.
Same foden was asked to leave city (by fans) because he wasn't getting regular game time.

I didn't know players developed only at league winning teams.

Arsenal are even bigger circus but apparently they are perfect for player development even though none of them had season like Greenwood or spell like Greenwood except Saka.
 
Last edited:

Mogget

Full Member
Joined
Nov 27, 2013
Messages
5,588
Supports
Arsenal
Same foden was asked to leave city (by fans) because he wasn't getting regular game time.

I didn't know players developed only at league winning teams.

Arsenal are even bigger circus but apparently they are perfect for player development even though none of them had season like Greenwood or spell like Greenwood except Saka.
Maybe actually read my posts before making assumptions about my opinions based on who I support

A weird thing for a gooner to say, considering the last few years at Arsenal. Did that hinder Saka et al?
Probably. I'm not saying a young player won't improve but surely playing in a settled team under a world class manager would be better for their development than somewhere like Arsenal or United.
 

Pogue Mahone

Poster of the year 2008 & 2020
Joined
Feb 22, 2006
Messages
114,225
Location
"like a man in silk pyjamas shooting pigeons
Probably. I'm not saying a young player won't improve but surely playing in a settled team under a world class manager would be better for their development than somewhere like Arsenal or United.
Swings and roundabouts. Youngsters at a “settled team under a world class manager” will find it harder to get games. Which are absolutely crucial if they want to improve. You could argue that Foden’s development has happened despite a less than ideal environment.

I’m sure Jadon Sancho, Leroy Sane (and Ferran Torres?) have their own thoughts on life at City as up and coming young footballers.
 

roonster09

Hercule Poirot of the scouting world
Scout
Joined
May 10, 2009
Messages
31,540
Maybe actually read my posts before making assumptions about my opinions based on who I support
Where did I say you said that? Maybe you should read properly before replying.

Few bad months and everyone becomes expert at player development and what's best for player development.
 

Yagami

Kira did nothing wrong
Joined
Jan 27, 2013
Messages
10,988
A year or so ago, I was watching some Brazil youth games because I was a fan of Matheus Henrique's - who was great - but, outside of him, Martinelli and Ajax's Antony were standouts. I'm not surprised to see them both on their way to becoming excellent players. Shame that M.Henrique is struggling in Italy, though!
 

GoonerInPeace

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Jan 17, 2022
Messages
3
Supports
Arsenal
Both will be quality. Arsenal fans dont need to worry about Martinelli turning into Walcott, and United fans shouldn't worry about Greenwood turning into Lingard. Although I would be worried about Rashford, both in terms of quality and attitude. What was he doing not chasing Martinez's spill in the Villa FA Cup game?
 

Fortitude

TV/Monitor Expert
Scout
Joined
Jul 10, 2004
Messages
15,717
Location
Inside right
Martinelli has a zest for the game and what looks like a rabid desire to improve; Greenwood's head has completely gone this season and talent is not what the concern is with him, but how he's going mentally.

He's not playing for the team, he isn't working hard defensively and he doesn't seem to be working on his weaknesses. United are in complete disarray, however, and the first to suffer then are youngsters without rock solid support networks around them on and off the pitch. I don't know if the latter is any issue for Greenwood, but it's very difficult to compare them at the moment as one is clearly in an ascendancy with seemingly everything going well for him and the other is in a slump playing poor, ill-considered football in a shambolic team.

In terms of talent, however, Greenwood has shown more special things still, as Martinelli has not outdone what Greenwood did last season despite everything clicking for him at the moment.
 

ThierryHenry14

Full Member
Joined
Dec 30, 2015
Messages
1,532
Supports
Arsenal
Both will be quality. Arsenal fans dont need to worry about Martinelli turning into Walcott, and United fans shouldn't worry about Greenwood turning into Lingard. Although I would be worried about Rashford, both in terms of quality and attitude. What was he doing not chasing Martinez's spill in the Villa FA Cup game?
They are the only one need to worry about turning into Walcott/Lingaard. Martinelli or all other arsenal young players may not extend their contract anyway if we can't meet their salary demand, ambition or whatever.