Greenwood or Martinelli

roonster09

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1 good month and now it's "wow how awesome is arsenal for young players and why they should leave ManUtd" :lol:
 

smi11ie

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Utd have huge motivational problems so it is hard to say who is actually more talented. Martinelli seems more aggresive and dangerous.
 

ThierryHenry14

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Utd have huge motivational problems so it is hard to say who is actually more talented. Martinelli seems more aggresive and dangerous.
I don't even know how people determine which player is more talented. It is not FIFA or FM. It takes more than just pace, dribbling and finishing for a player to succeed nowadays. Game time to develop, coach, tactic, a stable club environment, the mental strength of the player, understanding of the game etc are just as important. Just look at Dembele or Adama Traore, they have all the pace and dribbling when they were young, but both didn't develop very well.

On the other hand when you look at Foden's development in Man City, that is a complete different story.
 

Che Guevara

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In terms of development Martinelli is currently ahead of Greenwood. His workrate both in attack and defensively is phenomenal, he marks and puts in tackles, he covers both ends of the field very well, and he is fast and doesn't seem to tire easily. He is also better in the air and has scored several headers. Physically he is strong, something Arsenal players tend to lack. If he is played consistently and avoids injuries he will be a massive player.
 

Mogget

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1 good month and now it's "wow how awesome is arsenal for young players and why they should leave ManUtd" :lol:
I don't think it's laughable to think Greenwood would do better away from United. Look at how Foden has progressed at City. Look at how TAA is doing for Liverpool, even after going through that terrible run of form.

United are a circus and I don't see how that's good for a young player's development.
 

Pogue Mahone

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In terms of development Martinelli is currently ahead of Greenwood. His workrate both in attack and defensively is phenomenal, he marks and puts in tackles, he covers both ends of the field very well, and he is fast and doesn't seem to tire easily. He is also better in the air and has scored several headers. Physically he is strong, something Arsenal players tend to lack. If he is played consistently and avoids injuries he will be a massive player.
That’s fair. Right now physical fitness and work ethic seems to be the biggest difference. Something that Rangnick has already identified as a priority to work on.
 

Pogue Mahone

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I don't think it's laughable to think Greenwood would do better away from United. Look at how Foden has progressed at City. Look at how TAA is doing for Liverpool, even after going through that terrible run of form.

United are a circus and I don't see how that's good for a young player's development.
A weird thing for a gooner to say, considering the last few years at Arsenal. Did that hinder Saka et al?
 

Dancfc

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A thread comparing two young players on a platform at times known for kneejerk posts based on a players/managers last match is a recipe for a record amount of 180's.
 

Mogget

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A weird thing for a gooner to say, considering the last few years at Arsenal. Did that hinder Saka et al?
Probably. I'm not saying a young player won't improve but surely playing in a settled team under a world class manager would be better for their development than somewhere like Arsenal or United.
 

Ludens the Red

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Greenwood is the superior talent. Natural ability etc.
However he doesn’t appear to have the mentality that Martinelli has. Who has already fought back from serious injury.
Greenwood sometimes appears to lack drive and his decision making is questionable, he’s also developed bad habits.
Also I know most clubs fans hype up their youngsters no end but United youngsters tend to get hyped up in the general media like no other club.
With no leaders at the club and no Sir Alex to reign someone like Greenwood in. Previous management allowed him to indulge and the consequence is a player who appears to think he’s already made the big time. You’ve seen this with lots of United youngsters post Fergie. Januzaj, Martial, Rashford, Lingard.

I don’t think that has necessarily been an issue at Arsenal as bad as it’s been there down the years.
As inadequate as say Arteta has been at times, he doesn’t strike me as someone who will let players constantly get away with shit. He’s been brave enough to bin off the likes of Ozil, Aubemeyang etc.

At arsenal there are consequences for playing shite and a lack of professionalism. At United you’re more likely to get a new contract for similar behaviour.
 

ThierryHenry14

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Just look at Jamie Vardy. He may not have the "talent" like greenwood or martinelli, he never has the chance to develop in big club when he was young either. However, look at his career I would say it is a great success. He has that street fighter mentality.
 

AjaxCunian

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It is extremely hard to say no to the pay cheque in Man Utd until you are 26 and 27 like Martial and Lingaard. Greenwood get lots of playing time in Man Utd for the past 2 years so he won't go anywhere.
Yep, like most United players in the past 5 years. Prioritising a pay cheque above reaching their potential and winning trophies.
 

TwoSheds

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I like Martinelli. Has a lot going for him.
 

Big Poppa

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Greenwood is the superior talent. Natural ability etc.
However he doesn’t appear to have the mentality that Martinelli has. Who has already fought back from serious injury.
Greenwood sometimes appears to lack drive and his decision making is questionable, he’s also developed bad habits.
Also I know most clubs fans hype up their youngsters no end but United youngsters tend to get hyped up in the general media like no other club.
With no leaders at the club and no Sir Alex to reign someone like Greenwood in. Previous management allowed him to indulge and the consequence is a player who appears to think he’s already made the big time. You’ve seen this with lots of United youngsters post Fergie. Januzaj, Martial, Rashford, Lingard.

I don’t think that has necessarily been an issue at Arsenal as bad as it’s been there down the years.
As inadequate as say Arteta has been at times, he doesn’t strike me as someone who will let players constantly get away with shit. He’s been brave enough to bin off the likes of Ozil, Aubemeyang etc.

At arsenal there are consequences for playing shite and a lack of professionalism. At United you’re more likely to get a new contract for similar behaviour.
I detest these kinds of comparisons as between the age of 18 - 23, a players can fluctuate wildly in their development due to circumstances that have nothing to do with talent or ability.

From an Arsenal perspective, Martinelli, beyond just talent, has an outrageous work ethic but I always fear that he will get himself injured or burnt out chasing lost causes.

Greenwood is clearly an incredible talent too. He reminds me of RVP (without the bad temper) when he arrived from Feyenoord. Such an elegant player and makes difficult things look very easy, but suceptible to going down the wrong path if he doesn't get the right people around him. I'm sure he'll be fine though.
 

roonster09

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I don't think it's laughable to think Greenwood would do better away from United. Look at how Foden has progressed at City. Look at how TAA is doing for Liverpool, even after going through that terrible run of form.

United are a circus and I don't see how that's good for a young player's development.
Same foden was asked to leave city (by fans) because he wasn't getting regular game time.

I didn't know players developed only at league winning teams.

Arsenal are even bigger circus but apparently they are perfect for player development even though none of them had season like Greenwood or spell like Greenwood except Saka.
 
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Mogget

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Same foden was asked to leave city (by fans) because he wasn't getting regular game time.

I didn't know players developed only at league winning teams.

Arsenal are even bigger circus but apparently they are perfect for player development even though none of them had season like Greenwood or spell like Greenwood except Saka.
Maybe actually read my posts before making assumptions about my opinions based on who I support

A weird thing for a gooner to say, considering the last few years at Arsenal. Did that hinder Saka et al?
Probably. I'm not saying a young player won't improve but surely playing in a settled team under a world class manager would be better for their development than somewhere like Arsenal or United.
 

Pogue Mahone

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Probably. I'm not saying a young player won't improve but surely playing in a settled team under a world class manager would be better for their development than somewhere like Arsenal or United.
Swings and roundabouts. Youngsters at a “settled team under a world class manager” will find it harder to get games. Which are absolutely crucial if they want to improve. You could argue that Foden’s development has happened despite a less than ideal environment.

I’m sure Jadon Sancho, Leroy Sane (and Ferran Torres?) have their own thoughts on life at City as up and coming young footballers.
 

roonster09

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Maybe actually read my posts before making assumptions about my opinions based on who I support
Where did I say you said that? Maybe you should read properly before replying.

Few bad months and everyone becomes expert at player development and what's best for player development.
 

Yagami

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A year or so ago, I was watching some Brazil youth games because I was a fan of Matheus Henrique's - who was great - but, outside of him, Martinelli and Ajax's Antony were standouts. I'm not surprised to see them both on their way to becoming excellent players. Shame that M.Henrique is struggling in Italy, though!
 

GoonerInPeace

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Both will be quality. Arsenal fans dont need to worry about Martinelli turning into Walcott, and United fans shouldn't worry about Greenwood turning into Lingard. Although I would be worried about Rashford, both in terms of quality and attitude. What was he doing not chasing Martinez's spill in the Villa FA Cup game?
 

Fortitude

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Martinelli has a zest for the game and what looks like a rabid desire to improve; Greenwood's head has completely gone this season and talent is not what the concern is with him, but how he's going mentally.

He's not playing for the team, he isn't working hard defensively and he doesn't seem to be working on his weaknesses. United are in complete disarray, however, and the first to suffer then are youngsters without rock solid support networks around them on and off the pitch. I don't know if the latter is any issue for Greenwood, but it's very difficult to compare them at the moment as one is clearly in an ascendancy with seemingly everything going well for him and the other is in a slump playing poor, ill-considered football in a shambolic team.

In terms of talent, however, Greenwood has shown more special things still, as Martinelli has not outdone what Greenwood did last season despite everything clicking for him at the moment.
 

ThierryHenry14

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Both will be quality. Arsenal fans dont need to worry about Martinelli turning into Walcott, and United fans shouldn't worry about Greenwood turning into Lingard. Although I would be worried about Rashford, both in terms of quality and attitude. What was he doing not chasing Martinez's spill in the Villa FA Cup game?
They are the only one need to worry about turning into Walcott/Lingaard. Martinelli or all other arsenal young players may not extend their contract anyway if we can't meet their salary demand, ambition or whatever.
 

GoonerInPeace

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They are the only one need to worry about turning into Walcott/Lingaard. Martinelli or all other arsenal young players may not extend their contract anyway if we can't meet their salary demand, ambition or whatever.
I wouldn't worry about salary. We pay high wages. Saka and Martinelli will be compensated

Also, looks like Klopp has decided he likes Martinelli and has no problem making unsolicited comments about him.

One thing about Liverpool at the moment is they are skint and FSG have tighten the purse strings (sell to buy). I can just see them taking the P and offering 30m plus AOC for Martinelli. I had a debate recently about Martinelli's value, my valuation was a firm 100m given his potential. Legitimately has the potential to the best player at the club since Henry. Klopp doesnt get to call Martinelli a generational talent and follow up with a pathetic offer.

Also doesnt make sense, why would we buy Pepe for 72m, bid 60m for Vlahovic, and spent net 120m in the past summer window only to turn around and sell our best player in the cheap. Yes, Martinelli is our best player.

With regards to the thread title, I dont think Greenwood will follow Martinelli's trajectory. Great player Greenwood, but Martinelli is the heir to Neymar as Brazil's top forward player. You will see a Ronaldo/Rooney divergence with Martinelli and Greenwood. Not comparing these players, but just making apoint. Ronaldo and Rooney were at one stage considered equals. But lets face it, there was nothing equal about Ronaldo or Rooney.
 

Desert Eagle

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I wouldn't worry about salary. We pay high wages. Saka and Martinelli will be compensated

Also, looks like Klopp has decided he likes Martinelli and has no problem making unsolicited comments about him.

One thing about Liverpool at the moment is they are skint and FSG have tighten the purse strings (sell to buy). I can just see them taking the P and offering 30m plus AOC for Martinelli. I had a debate recently about Martinelli's value, my valuation was a firm 100m given his potential. Legitimately has the potential to the best player at the club since Henry. Klopp doesnt get to call Martinelli a generational talent and follow up with a pathetic offer.

Also doesnt make sense, why would we buy Pepe for 72m, bid 60m for Vlahovic, and spent net 120m in the past summer window only to turn around and sell our best player in the cheap. Yes, Martinelli is our best player.

With regards to the thread title, I dont think Greenwood will follow Martinelli's trajectory. Great player Greenwood, but Martinelli is the heir to Neymar as Brazil's top forward player. You will see a Ronaldo/Rooney divergence with Martinelli and Greenwood. Not comparing these players, but just making apoint. Ronaldo and Rooney were at one stage considered equals. But lets face it, there was nothing equal about Ronaldo or Rooney.
You managed to compare Martinelli to Henry, Neymar and Ronaldo. :lol: Deluded arsenal fans are really something.
 

AndersB

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Also doesnt make sense, why would we buy Pepe for 72m, bid 60m for Vlahovic, and spent net 120m in the past summer window only to turn around and sell our best player in the cheap. Yes, Martinelli is our best player.

Your best player? The heir to Neymar? Aren't you getting a little carried away here, given that he had played a total of 1200 league minutes before this season? He's on 2000 minutes overall.
 

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Just a reminder that United actually had both at Carrington for a while, as we took Martinelli on trial for a few weeks when he was a teenager.

Why, as one of the richest clubs in the World, we seem so frightened to take punts on players I'll never understand.
 

kouroux

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I wouldn't worry about salary. We pay high wages. Saka and Martinelli will be compensated

Also, looks like Klopp has decided he likes Martinelli and has no problem making unsolicited comments about him.

One thing about Liverpool at the moment is they are skint and FSG have tighten the purse strings (sell to buy). I can just see them taking the P and offering 30m plus AOC for Martinelli. I had a debate recently about Martinelli's value, my valuation was a firm 100m given his potential. Legitimately has the potential to the best player at the club since Henry. Klopp doesnt get to call Martinelli a generational talent and follow up with a pathetic offer.

Also doesnt make sense, why would we buy Pepe for 72m, bid 60m for Vlahovic, and spent net 120m in the past summer window only to turn around and sell our best player in the cheap. Yes, Martinelli is our best player.

With regards to the thread title, I dont think Greenwood will follow Martinelli's trajectory. Great player Greenwood, but Martinelli is the heir to Neymar as Brazil's top forward player. You will see a Ronaldo/Rooney divergence with Martinelli and Greenwood. Not comparing these players, but just making apoint. Ronaldo and Rooney were at one stage considered equals. But lets face it, there was nothing equal about Ronaldo or Rooney.
Promote this guy already :lol:
 

Rockets Redglare

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I wouldn't worry about salary. We pay high wages. Saka and Martinelli will be compensated

Also, looks like Klopp has decided he likes Martinelli and has no problem making unsolicited comments about him.

One thing about Liverpool at the moment is they are skint and FSG have tighten the purse strings (sell to buy). I can just see them taking the P and offering 30m plus AOC for Martinelli. I had a debate recently about Martinelli's value, my valuation was a firm 100m given his potential. Legitimately has the potential to the best player at the club since Henry. Klopp doesnt get to call Martinelli a generational talent and follow up with a pathetic offer.

Also doesnt make sense, why would we buy Pepe for 72m, bid 60m for Vlahovic, and spent net 120m in the past summer window only to turn around and sell our best player in the cheap. Yes, Martinelli is our best player.

With regards to the thread title, I dont think Greenwood will follow Martinelli's trajectory. Great player Greenwood, but Martinelli is the heir to Neymar as Brazil's top forward player. You will see a Ronaldo/Rooney divergence with Martinelli and Greenwood. Not comparing these players, but just making apoint. Ronaldo and Rooney were at one stage considered equals. But lets face it, there was nothing equal about Ronaldo or Rooney.
In one post you’ve managed to massively overrate a young Arsenal player while at the same time calling Rooney a bit shit.

Bravo sir.
 

noodlehair

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Greenwood will not reach his potential here. He's a Man United boy and I am sure he wants to succeed here and win all trophies.

If he and his entourage are wise, he'll opt for a move though. This club is a complete mess in developing players, and are miles away from winning titles.

Martinelli is currently playing a lot better football, but the comparison is unfair. Arsenal play much better football than United currently.
What?

Arsenal are level on points with United, out of every cup and generally only entertaining to watch when they're losing, which to be fair is often.

This is supposedly their good run and it's involved losing multiple games, going out of one cup to a championship side, going out of the other by surrendering embarassingly to a patched up Liverpool side, a spate of ridiculously stupid red cards, cheating to get a game called off, being involved in a betting scandal, and trying to take some kind of glory out of losing a game to Man City just because they nearly didn't lose until their ill discipline kicked in.

Other highlights of their season have included getting praised for losing 4-0 to Liverpool, and kicking the ball into the goal while the other teams goalkeeper is injured, celebrating it as if they'd won the league, and then making sure it looked extra stupid by going on to lose the game anyway and render the whole shameless fiasco completely pointless.

Man Utd haven't sunk to these depths yet it's just that they also haven't lowered their standards to a level yet where any of this would be painted as some kind of positive.

As far as Martinelli is concerned, he certainly looks a decent player but if this is him playing well then he isn't on the same level as Greenwood. Although it's also pointless to compare when they're still both so young and it depends hugely on their development. Don't buy any of the rubbish about greenwood being in the wrong place. United are still one of the best clubs in the world for producing their own talent. It's one of the few things they haven't completely lost the plot with. Where as Martinelli will be leaving Arsenal in the near future if he's half as good as some of these posts claim.
 

Flexdegea

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What?

Arsenal are level on points with United, out of every cup and generally only entertaining to watch when they're losing, which to be fair is often.

This is supposedly their good run and it's involved losing multiple games, going out of one cup to a championship side, going out of the other by surrendering embarassingly to a patched up Liverpool side, a spate of ridiculously stupid red cards, cheating to get a game called off, being involved in a betting scandal, and trying to take some kind of glory out of losing a game to Man City just because they nearly didn't lose until their ill discipline kicked in.

Other highlights of their season have included getting praised for losing 4-0 to Liverpool, and kicking the ball into the goal while the other teams goalkeeper is injured, celebrating it as if they'd won the league, and then making sure it looked extra stupid by going on to lose the game anyway and render the whole shameless fiasco completely pointless.

Man Utd haven't sunk to these depths yet it's just that they also haven't lowered their standards to a level yet where any of this would be painted as some kind of positive.

As far as Martinelli is concerned, he certainly looks a decent player but if this is him playing well then he isn't on the same level as Greenwood. Although it's also pointless to compare when they're still both so young and it depends hugely on their development. Don't buy any of the rubbish about greenwood being in the wrong place. United are still one of the best clubs in the world for producing their own talent. It's one of the few things they haven't completely lost the plot with. Where as Martinelli will be leaving Arsenal in the near future if he's half as good as some of these posts claim.


The arsenal hype is incredible, they lost 3 on the bounce a month ago, currently lost 4 of their last 9 games in the league, spanked out of the FA cup 3rd round against championship team in a embarrassing performance, now out of the league cup after doing nothing and are still getting mad hype for top 4.


I don't get it. Just shows how media narrative drives a lot of thought process with football etc. You listen to commentators during their matches seems to be all Rosey, watch a game of ours with some ABU co commentating it, and you come away thinking we relegation standard at the moment.


Even have our own fans hyping them up as a serious team, Lego pep doing a solid job apparently. He's spent a lot of money himself. He's getting a bit of tune of then at the moment because he actually been forced into playing all the young talent who are hungry and want to play.
 

GoonerInPeace

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In one post you’ve managed to massively overrate a young Arsenal player while at the same time calling Rooney a bit shit.

Bravo sir.
Its no crime to say Ronaldo went to levels Rooney never reached.

Ronaldo is a top 5 player in history. Where as I wouldn't even put Rooney in Man United all time top 5.
 

GoonerInPeace

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The arsenal hype is incredible, they lost 3 on the bounce a month ago, currently lost 4 of their last 9 games in the league, spanked out of the FA cup 3rd round against championship team in a embarrassing performance, now out of the league cup after doing nothing and are still getting mad hype for top 4.


I don't get it. Just shows how media narrative drives a lot of thought process with football etc. You listen to commentators during their matches seems to be all Rosey, watch a game of ours with some ABU co commentating it, and you come away thinking we relegation standard at the moment.


Even have our own fans hyping them up as a serious team, Lego pep doing a solid job apparently. He's spent a lot of money himself. He's getting a bit of tune of then at the moment because he actually been forced into playing all the young talent who are hungry and want to play.

I see your point.

With us its about potential. Saka (20), ESR (21), Martinelli (20), Tomiyasu (22), White (24), Tierney (24), Ramdale (23), Odegaard (23), Gabriel (24). This is the core of the squad and we definitely need further quality in depth. That being said, we were not expecting to finish in the top 4 this year or even be in a position where we could feel optimistic for the future. However the signings of Odegaard, Ramsdale and Tomiyasu have exceeded expectations, where as Saka, Martinelli and ESR have given new life to the team. I dont think any other club in England has a core of players that long and good under the ages of 24. Arteta's job is to add some quality experienced players, as simply put only Partey and Lacazette are 'senior' players. Xhaka is surely going to be sold. Lacazette will also leave this summer too. Ideally the ouyng players will grow in greater stature and Arsenal will be better for it.

As for losing 4-0 to Liverpool, well at least we lost 4-0 away. And your right, we are level on points with a game in hand. But you guys were supposed to challenge for the title. You finished 2nd last year and signed Ronaldo. Something tell me a 4th placed battle with Spurs and Arsenal wasnt on what you thought this season would be.
 

DWelbz19

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Someone retitle this thread ‘the heir to Neymar’
 

macheda14

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Just a reminder that United actually had both at Carrington for a while, as we took Martinelli on trial for a few weeks when he was a teenager.

Why, as one of the richest clubs in the World, we seem so frightened to take punts on players I'll never understand.
I mean we do take punts on players. Just sometimes we miss out on them. 10 mill for Hannibal, up to 35 mill for Amad, 4 mill for willy kwambala, 10 mill for pellistri.
 

GlasgowCeltic

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I see your point.

With us its about potential. Saka (20), ESR (21), Martinelli (20), Tomiyasu (22), White (24), Tierney (24), Ramdale (23), Odegaard (23), Gabriel (24). This is the core of the squad and we definitely need further quality in depth. That being said, we were not expecting to finish in the top 4 this year or even be in a position where we could feel optimistic for the future. However the signings of Odegaard, Ramsdale and Tomiyasu have exceeded expectations, where as Saka, Martinelli and ESR have given new life to the team. I dont think any other club in England has a core of players that long and good under the ages of 24. Arteta's job is to add some quality experienced players, as simply put only Partey and Lacazette are 'senior' players. Xhaka is surely going to be sold. Lacazette will also leave this summer too. Ideally the ouyng players will grow in greater stature and Arsenal will be better for it.

As for losing 4-0 to Liverpool, well at least we lost 4-0 away. And your right, we are level on points with a game in hand. But you guys were supposed to challenge for the title. You finished 2nd last year and signed Ronaldo. Something tell me a 4th placed battle with Spurs and Arsenal wasnt on what you thought this season would be.
These types of posts with the general point of "these young players will be our core for the next decade" never end well. Saka is brilliant but I'd be amazed if he's not at City in 2-3 years.
 

AltiUn

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Just a reminder that United actually had both at Carrington for a while, as we took Martinelli on trial for a few weeks when he was a teenager.

Why, as one of the richest clubs in the World, we seem so frightened to take punts on players I'll never understand.
Pretty sure @jb8521 mentioned on Twitter a few years ago that we ended up not taking Martinelli due to Greenwood, could be mistaken though.