Greenwood's near post finishing

El Jefe

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I can't be the only one that thinks a large number of Greenwood's many near post finish goals should have been saved by the keeper. Since his breakthrough in terms of goals last season he has scored so many goals at the near post, either narrowly beating the keeper or with the keeper getting a hand on them. What's particularly interesting is that a lot of these goals seem like they have been scuffed just a little bit.

This might sound like criticism but its not I actually think it's genius in some ways. He's a natural finisher so he must be aware that there is an advantage by finishing the way he does.

Aguero is another lethal near post finisher but he usually gets a lot of power behind his. Greenwood has powerful shots too like his goal against spurs but its the ones that don't seem cleanly hit that really fascinate me.

At the rate he's going, these might be his trademark goal. Why are these so difficult for keepers to save? Especially with the old cliche of keepers should never be beaten at their near post. Greenwood makes a mockery of the saying.
 
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adexkola

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I can't be the only one that thinks a large number of Greenwood's many near post finish goals should have been saved by the keeper. Since his breakthrough in terms of goals last season he has scored so many goals at the near post, either narrowly beating the keeper or with the keeper getting a hand on them. What's particularly interesting is that a lot of these goals seem like they have been scuffed just a little bit.

This might sound like criticism but its not I actually think it's genius in some ways. He's a natural finisher so he must be aware that there is an advantage by finishing the way he does.

Aguero is another lethal near post finisher but he usually gets a lot of power behind his. Greenwood has powerful shots too like his goal against spurs but its the ones that don't seem cleanly hit that really fascinate me.

At the rate he's going, these might be his trademark goal. Why are these so difficult for keepers to save? Especially with the old cliche of keepers should nevet be beaten at their near post. Greenwood makes a mockery of the saying.
Armchair goalkeeping. So many variables that make the statement nonsensical.
 

ChaddyP

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boggles my mind every time. i think its that he gets them off so fast that the keeper has zero time to react. i also thought he was scuffing the shots but clearly hes doing it on purpose.
 

romufc

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I think saying the goal keeper should save it is doing injustice to Greenwood, he knows exactly what he is doing.

1. When a left footer opens his body up, you expect him to curl it into the top corner across goal, Greenwood disguises his finish really well.
2. Speed of shot - once he has turned the defender, he takes the shot so early so the keeper cant set himself
3. His ability - players know he can go either way so there is no guessing what he will do.
 

bsCallout

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He doesn't allow the keeper to get set and he perhaps doesn't do the obvious, its probably to do with them not knowing which foot he'll go with either.

He's unpredictable basically.

I think a keeper like De Gea probably has the best chance of saving his shots because he uses his feet.
 

Player Red

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A couple of reasons.
- Many keepers will think a player cutting in like that will look for the far post as they will feel the defender is covering the near post (if goalside unlike Mings) so they don't anticipate the near post shot.
- Distance travelled by the ball could be almost doubled when going for the far post, if the angle is right. This gives the keeper less time to react and get down to a near post shot. Also, any shot close to the keeper but not quite at them is difficult to save.
 

villain

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He's a natural finisher, he knows exactly where the goal is and he's comfortable with both feet - that is a nightmare for the GK because unless you know exactly where he's going to shoot, the margins on where you position yourself are so fine.

For example his goal on Sunday, if the GK was closer to his near-post to save the goal, he would've showed too much of the goal to Greenwood who's equally capable of finishing in the far post with his left foot. So he did the right thing, Greenwood just ended up scoring the more difficult goal and making it look easy.
 

11101

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He has virtually no backlift and he can do it on either foot. The goal is too big for a keeper to simply react, they look at the attacker's body position to decide which way to dive. With Greenwood they don't have time. If it's right in the corner it doesn't need to be hit perfectly.
 

jeff_goldblum

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He doesn't telegraph the timing or direction of the shot with his body position and he consistently puts them in literally the only place the goalkeeper can't reach - along the ground just inside the post.

I think the reason they look a bit odd sometimes is down to the former. To disguise his intentions he doesn't position his body in the natural position you'd expect to see from someone targetting a shot into the near post, so the movement required to actually carry out the shot looks odd.
 

Dr. Dwayne

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boggles my mind every time. i think its that he gets them off so fast that the keeper has zero time to react. i also thought he was scuffing the shots but clearly hes doing it on purpose.
I think Shearer mentioned his short back lift when shooting. Probably has something to do with it.
 

Abraxas

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This is something I have noticed too. He has had a decent number of goals that looked saveable. Whether they actually are saveable is always a grey area and would take somebody far more qualified to assess, it seems as if anytime a keeper gets a touch pundits will declare it should be saved and any time they do not it was unsaveable, which has to be nonsensical. Mainly because the interpretation would actually promote poor keepers as being good in some situations where a good keeper gets closer to saving the goal.


As a complete guess I would hazard it is something to do with the fact he is comfortable on either foot, there isn't really much of a tell of which way he will go or when he will strike and they do tend to be taken quickly. I suppose the keepers are reacting a little later than they ordinarily would for some other players resulting in beaten at the near post or not getting enough on it.
 

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If the keeper is standing in the middle of the goal, it becomes almost impossible to save it near post for the GK from an 18-20 yd range. Mason is also very good at opening his body as if to go far post so keepers can't cheat on the near post.
 

Dante

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boggles my mind every time. i think its that he gets them off so fast that the keeper has zero time to react. i also thought he was scuffing the shots but clearly hes doing it on purpose.
This is it.

Greenwood has one of the shortest backlifts I've seen in all my years of watching football.

Whatever heuristics goalkeepers normally use to make up their minds, they don't work on Greenwood. He's a special talent.
 

Flying high

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He doesn't telegraph the timing or direction of the shot with his body position and he consistently puts them in literally the only place the goalkeeper can't reach - along the ground just inside the post.

I think the reason they look a bit odd sometimes is down to the former. To disguise his intentions he doesn't position his body in the natural position you'd expect to see from someone targetting a shot into the near post, so the movement required to actually carry out the shot looks odd.
Yeah that's how it seems to me. You simply can't get the same clean connection if your body angle isn't right, so he's hitting slightly down on the ball to make it difficult for the keeper.
 

DWelbz19

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It's all calculated. He's scored far too many for these to be anything other than a Greenwood special.
 

El Jefe

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He doesn't telegraph the timing or direction of the shot with his body position and he consistently puts them in literally the only place the goalkeeper can't reach - along the ground just inside the post.

I think the reason they look a bit odd sometimes is down to the former. To disguise his intentions he doesn't position his body in the natural position you'd expect to see from someone targetting a shot into the near post, so the movement required to actually carry out the shot looks odd.
This makes a lot of sense. He really doesn't telegraph his shots the way others do.

I guess the question can be asked why do people want him moving to the strikers position when the gift and advantage he has coming off the right has the potential to be other worldly. If he was slow or didn't have the ability to beat his man, I'd get it but he has no such problems. You see defenders shit themselves 1v1 with him out wide and the crazy thing is he has so much scope for improvement.
 

flappyjay

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1st couple of times I thought it was luck but at this point it shows that it's intended. When keepers think they have figured him out they are going to leave the other post wide open.
 

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Are there any decent studies on laterality of players and finishing?

If the majority of keepers are stronger on their right, do statistics show more near post goals from left footed players cutting in from the right, than right footed from the left? And then the reverse for far post finishes?
 

Lewnited

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Two things I'd say:

1. He hits his shot so early, sometimes barely even breaking stride (this in particular)
2. He disguises his shot choice very well

I'm no professional keeper, but I believe a lot of good shot stopping is about anticipation based on body positioning of the opposing attacker, but for the two reasons above it's very hard to anticipate where or when Greenwood is going to hit the ball, making it impossible to ever really get set to make a save.

This is why he's able to hit shots that look scuffed but still go in, he barely gives keepers anything to work with. Very unique.
 

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Armchair goalkeeping. So many variables that make the statement nonsensical.
Yeah, as an ex-keeper that’s always annoyed me. If you literally never get beaten at your near post then you’re leaving far too much space at the far post. A perfectly positioned keeper will be beaten on each side an equal amount of times.
 

harms

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He has this quite unique ability to take hard and accurate shots almost without any backlift. So he's able to take a shot at a less convenient time (often catching goalkeepers in a bad position, where they've put their weight on a wrong leg) — and if he sees that keeper controls the near corner, he can just a fake shot with the same movement and try it with another foot, as he's basically ambidextrous.

The thing is — it's not luck. It's an ability.
 

RUCK4444

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What makes him more adept at this is his two footed ability which improves how early he can take the shot. Which often wrong foots the keeper or catches them out.

Also Keepers always expecting him to naturally go towards the far post, he hits the ball clean and takes it early because he can hit with a rocket off either foot.

Makes it very difficult for the keeper and the whole ‘shouldn’t ever be beaten at the near post’ mantra is outdated as you and others have pointed out.
 

Nick7

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For the Villa goal in particular I couldn’t believe he hit it first time. It seemed in an awkward position for him and most players would take a second touch to get an easier shot. It seemed like he was going to do just then, then suddenly turned it into a shot. The keeper had no time to react.
 

acnumber9

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He fooled the keeper at the weekend. Martinez anticipated the shot to the far post and that’s what did for him. Solskjaer was good at that too.
 

criticalanalysis

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He's making up for the times Rooney tried to shoot near post and not succeeding :drool:

I've said this in Greenwood's own thread and again this applies for all of our attackers but I think Greenwood needs to improve on opening his body up and going for the far post.

He has impeccable technique but sometimes his approach (i.e stepovers) is get as fast and close to the box and smash it, which tends to mean he goes near post or towards the keeper.

He's capable of making the space so I would love to see him standing up a defender, make that half yard and place a shot into the far post.
 

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He fooled the keeper at the weekend. Martinez anticipated the shot to the far post and that’s what did for him. Solskjaer was good at that too.
Yep I thought so too. Martinez took a step to the other direction which meant the shot didn't need to be powered in.

Also, low into the corner like that must be one of the hardest to save. You can't go with legs in that position and the extra second it takes to get down gives advantage to the striker.

Take nothing away from Greenwood, it's a huge skill to have as a striker.
 

SAFMUTD

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If the keeper is expecting the shot then there's no way those shots would have been converted to goals, but the keepers try to anticipate the shot to the far post.

If you have played as a GK you know how hard is to dive to the other side once you started the motion.

If the keepers don't do this then yes the chances of shooting to the first goal are diminished but the option to shoot to the far post increases, so there's no easy solution for this one.
 

Eckers99

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The fact that it happens so often, against so many decent keepers shows how difficult it is to stop him.

It's the way he opens his body up and fakes a far post curler. You can see the keepers positioning themselves to dive to that side, by which point he's hammered it near post.

He's lethal.
 

snk123

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he's a very good player but needs to improve his decision making massively. He's having a good luck in front of goal - when it will dry out, he'll get a lot of abuse over here.
 

Champ

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Armchair goalkeeping. So many variables that make the statement nonsensical.
As a coach with a GK qualification I can say that whilst it is a cliche that a keeper shouldn't be beat at the near post, the idea of a goalkeeper is to narrow the angle and make it more difficult for the attacker.

This usually means covering more of the near post, as this is the side closest to the attacker, and supposedly easier to hit. So in theory a GK shouldn't be beaten at their near post as easy as their far post.

Greenwood scoring so many at the near post is usually down to him hitting the ball fairly early, a GK has to get in position and know where they are in the goal, by hitting it as early as Greenwood often does it usually means the keeper hasn't set his position quite right, the goal against Aston Villa is prime example of that.
Martinez was expecting Greenwood to potentially take a touch and curl the ball into the far post, Greenwood obviously hit it early into the near, Martinez wasn't in the correct position (he was slightly too central) and so Greenwood scored.
You can apply that same scenario to several of his similar finishes.
 
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harms

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he's a very good player but needs to improve his decision making massively. He's having a good luck in front of goal - when it will dry out, he'll get a lot of abuse over here.
He's gone half a season without any luck in front of a goal. And those shots aren't lucky.
 

calodo2003

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He has virtually no backlift and he can do it on either foot. The goal is too big for a keeper to simply react, they look at the attacker's body position to decide which way to dive. With Greenwood they don't have time. If it's right in the corner it doesn't need to be hit perfectly.
I think your backlift point might be the key reason.
 

Tomuś

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Ole was a master of it. Just taking quick shots from all over the penalty box, using the whole width of the goal. Go and watch some of it if you like.
 

Champ

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Time to bump this thread already I reckon... :lol:
 

Champ

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That was the far post mate
True, I was merely thinking of one poster who out that Greenwoods luck in front of goal will run out...and the scuffed finishes...etc.
 

stw2022

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Within four years he’ll be world class. In my view he’s the second best forward at the club both in terms of finishing and overall play