Guardian Interview - Louis van Gaal: ‘I thought Manchester United could buy every player'

[JPRouve]

LVG played Martial first as a CF before covering for Memphis's lack of settlement at LW. He happened to find Rashford who broke through also doing well as a CF & I'm sure LVG would have atleast tried to play them in a possession based partnership if he had stayed. Memphis might have been more useful in such a situation as well.

I liked watching CBj, Tuenzebe & TFM play rather than watching the likes of Valencia, Young or Darmian still playing for our team another 3+ years after LVG left - add Greenwood, Chong, Mctomminay and some others on to that list and our squad would surely have been younger and able to play possession football atleast to a good basic level at a time when every club seems to have a 'philosophy'.

We lacked two things under LVG -

1. Lack of Creativity in Players - could easily be sorted by just targeting better players done by a better manager that wanted to improve LVG's style rather than completely burn the whole thing to start again.
2. Lack of Freedom from LVG - he was clearly a dictator of holding the play back because the players weren't good enough to create things without losing the ball. He went too much with it but again something a manger like Ole or Giggs could have sorted out within one day as a manager.

We lacked a third thing, a director of football or someone having a similar role and crucially a network. The way Van Gaal uses academies shows that he doesn't need to give names, he just needs profiles and a DOF could have provided him the required players even if they weren't the biggest names.

I suspect that Ole will have the same issue, I liked some of the things that he has done with the players at his disposal but I'm not sure if he has the ability to build a playing staff that suits him. Does he have a network or an eye for evaluating players that he doesn't coach?

 

[Roboc7]

Mane said he chose Liverpool ahead of us which couldn't have been true because Liverpool weren't in for him at the time Van Gaal went in for him except we went back for him in the following season.

The point is Van Gaal promoted Rashford, just like he did with Keane who was a young unproven as Rashford who wasn't even established for the u23. Hell would have frozen before Mourinho would do same. That is what matters. And yes majority of our u23 players weren't good enough. The likes of janko, McNair, Powell, Blackett, James Reece, Thorpe (all players Van Gaal gave chances) were all average. So it was true that we had a horrible youth team until the u18 came up.

Mane said he spoke to LVG and turned us down, better source than your imagination.

So he knew players weren’t good enough but promoted them and left space for them so he’d have to play them if there were injuries, sounds great. Again nothing to do with Jose.

 

[Sylar]

I see the same LVG defenders are eating this up. And whilst a lot of what he said is probably true, the fact is that LVG himself was an issue and not right for United and had to go.

 

[Roboc7]

Mane literally went on strike to force a move but Koeman shut him down. It was Jose who dropped interest in him, he was willing to move to us. Then Liverpool got him and he changed his narrative of course.

Funny thing, we landed all of LvG's shite targets but missed out on what could have been a proper good signing.

That’s complete fabrication, he played in virtually every league game that season so wasn’t much of a strike.

 

[Kapardin]

That’s complete fabrication, he played in virtually every league game that season so wasn’t much of a strike.

By strike, I meant his head was clearly turned.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.eu...uthampton-fall-out_sto5045720/story-amp.shtml

Maybe my bad, "strike" gave a wrong impression. But for sure our interest affected him.

 

[Kaglish10]

Mane said he spoke to LVG and turned us down, better source than your imagination.

So he knew players weren’t good enough but promoted them and left space for them so he’d have to play them if there were injuries, sounds great. Again nothing to do with Jose.

Van Gaal always promotes young players at all clubs he's managed. It was his principles and culture hence nothing was going to discourage him despite our horrible u23 players. He knew the u18 players were coming up and he was going to assess them.

Mane didn't say he turned us down after speaking with Van Gaal. He said he chose Liverpool over us and then went on to speak about how he spoke with the previous coach, and this already lay credence to the claim that we went back for him because first, Liverpool weren't in for him at the time we first approached him. Secondly, he talked about speaking with the "previous" coach and that shows Van Gaal already left when we came back for him in the following season but he already moved on and wanted Liverpool instead.

 

[RedRonaldo]

Don't think he is bad at all, he won us the FA cup with his great philosophy, and his is a respectable crazy man outside the football pitch.

But just that his football is so darn boring.

 

[Roboc7]

Van Gaal always promotes young players at all clubs he's managed. It was his principles and culture hence nothing was going to discourage him despite our horrible u23 players. He knew the u18 players were coming up and he was going to assess them.

Mane didn't say he turned us down after speaking with Van Gaal. He said he chose Liverpool over us and then went on to speak about how he spoke with the previous coach, and this already lay credence to the claim that we went back for him because first, Liverpool weren't in for him at the time we first approached him. Secondly, he talked about speaking with the "previous" coach and that shows Van Gaal already left when we came back for him in the following season but he already moved on and wanted Liverpool instead.

He did say he spoke to LVG by nam, he didn’t want to join simple as that. Make up what you want but this isn’t something to blame on others just a case of player not wanting to play for manager or the club.

 

[Majima]

LVG played Martial first as a CF before covering for Memphis's lack of settlement at LW. He happened to find Rashford who broke through also doing well as a CF & I'm sure LVG would have atleast tried to play them in a possession based partnership if he had stayed. Memphis might have been more useful in such a situation as well. Considering he had to give up on the 352 because of the lack of players that fit that formation, I started realising in his second season that we had players like Martial, Rashford & Depay that is suited to play in a modern day partnership whilst players like Blind, TFM, Smalling could have played in a back 3 whilst some players could have played as wingbacks as well.

I liked watching CBj, Tuenzebe & TFM play rather than watching the likes of Valencia, Young or Darmian still playing for our team another 3+ years after LVG left - add Greenwood, Chong, Mctomminay and some others on to that list and our squad would surely have been younger and able to play possession football atleast to a good basic level at a time when every club seems to have a 'philosophy'.

We lacked two things under LVG -

1. Lack of Creativity in Players - could easily be sorted by just targeting better players done by a better manager that wanted to improve LVG's style rather than completely burn the whole thing to start again.
2. Lack of Freedom from LVG - he was clearly a dictator of holding the play back because the players weren't good enough to create things without losing the ball. He went too much with it but again something a manger like Ole or Giggs could have sorted out within one day as a manager.

Ultimately, if LVG had come after Jose failing then people would be more open to realising that LVG wasn't ever going to be a manager that wins us trophies. I look at the way the fans expectations of Ole & believe that the LVG to Homegrown coach plan would have been the best option for us. Instead we did it the other way around - went from a manager that had a plan for someone to take over a younger team to one that had the complete opposite ideas.

When Rashford came through, him and Martial were working together well, interchanging positions. It was only Mourinho who changed the narrative that they couldn't play together. It makes you wonder what we would have been like with another year under LVG. We would have had a structure to build upon and the modernisation of the club would have been much further along.

Everything with Mourinho just seems like a complete waste of time. We're back to square one, even worse than LVG, now that we've lost the possession base he left behind.

It's a story of our time under Woodward. We had it in our hands but his team's poor planning & decision-making has set us back over & over again.

We lacked a third thing, a director of football or someone having a similar role and crucially a network. The way Van Gaal uses academies shows that he doesn't need to give names, he just needs profiles and a DOF could have provided him the required players even if they weren't the biggest names.

The lack of a figurehead with direct access to a network of players was THE key reason behind LVG struggling here. All the managers really. Everything goes back to this crucial position. When he first arrived, he identified that we had a problem with old players & no creativity. That's why he let go of players like Nani, Van Persie & Chicharito. You can argue the semantics but the cull of the squad only became a problem when he found himself in a position where his targeted replacements were unavailable to him. Be through Woodward, players not wanting to come etc. That was when we panicked at the start of the season and bought in players like Falcao & Di Maria. Players that Van Gaal originally didn't want but was forced to take because of his plans going up in smoke.

Lack of Freedom from LVG - he was clearly a dictator of holding the play back because the players weren't good enough to create things without losing the ball. He went too much with it but again something a manger like Ole or Giggs could have sorted out within one day as a manager.

True. I didn't see the rigid 'dictatorship' as a bad thing, as he had the players interests at heart. We only need to look at Rashford currently to question whether too much freedom is a bad thing.

I suspect that Ole will have the same issue, I liked some of the things that he has done with the players at his disposal but I'm not sure if he has the ability to build a playing staff that suits him. Does he have a network or an eye for evaluating players that he doesn't coach?

Very true. Ole will also be handicapped by this issue too. Let's see this summer if his plan comes to fruition and he gets his expected targets. It seems a recurring theme, that all our managers come away thinking that they never got enough support. It's crazy that this has still not been resolved.

 

[Leftback99]

Dutch National team manager who saw Rojo as a better signing than Van Dijk.

Going on about buying players, I thought he was all about youth and having a small squad so that they could come through. Or was that just the nonsense he came out with when it all went wrong with the squad he ruined?

 

[Kaglish10]

Dutch National team manager who saw Rojo as a better signing than Van Dijk.

Going on about buying players, I thought he was all about youth and having a small squad so that they could come through. Or was that just the nonsense he came out with when it all went wrong with the squad he ruined?

Rojo was brought in as a left back but failed at the role. Van Djik is a CB. Got the memo?

Of course, it went wrong with playing average youth players such as Blackett, McNair, James Reece etc. Van Gaal shouldn't have even entertained them from the beginning, let alone play them. That is how ridiculous those that keep saying he didn't have plan for young players.

 

[Aloysius's Back 3]

We lacked a third thing, a director of football or someone having a similar role and crucially a network. The way Van Gaal uses academies shows that he doesn't need to give names, he just needs profiles and a DOF could have provided him the required players even if they weren't the biggest names.

I suspect that Ole will have the same issue, I liked some of the things that he has done with the players at his disposal but I'm not sure if he has the ability to build a playing staff that suits him. Does he have a network or an eye for evaluating players that he doesn't coach?

This is why I have high hopes or expectations for people like Nicky Butt or Michael Carrick.

Even if we get a DOF (which is quite important to step out of the SAF style power of management we may allow/emphasize with) - he isn't going to settle down and know what's good, promising or the right thing to do straight away.

I quite like Butt and I think his voice on players should be taken with some importance regarding some of the future directions and players. Carrick for me is an ex midfielder (I find these players sometimes turn to be really good tactically & some even great maangers) who has now spent the time with SAF, Moyes, LVG, Jose and Ole and should aim to be helping the club progress along the right directions too rather than just watch it all start over again ever 2-3 years if he is currently hired as one of our coaches.

SAF didn't really need a DOF, he was almost that by himself. We need one now to ensure the LVG to Jose type management jumping different to different doesn't happen alongside watching the footballers progress rather than hit a brick wall created by our own club.

 

[Leftback99]

Rojo was brought in as a left back but failed at the role. Van Djik is a CB. Got the memo?

Of course, it went wrong with playing average youth players such as Blackett, McNair, James Reece etc. Van Gaal shouldn't have even entertained them from the beginning, let alone play them. That is how ridiculous those that keep saying he didn't have plan for young players.

You're telling me he bought 3 left backs in one summer (Shaw, Rojo and Blind)? Rojo was bought as LCB because LVG believed they had to be left footed.

 

[Kaglish10]

You're telling me he bought 3 left backs in one summer (Shaw, Rojo and Blind)? Rojo was bought as LCB because LVG believed they had to be left footed.

Eventhough Blind was also solid as a left back, he was brought in as a midfielder which was the position he first played while Rojo played as a left back. Van Gaal didn't fancy Shaw because he didn't sign him nor did Shaw show any attacking instinct of an attacking fullback like Van Gaal's previous fullbacks such as Alaba, Lahm, even Blind. Van Gaal had first deployed a 352 setup which requires wingbacks but Shaw was terrible in the role.

Rojo played as a left back for the Argentina team that played against the Dutch team and was really good at going forward. I think he even scored good goals in the role for the Argentine. Van Gaal saw this and liked what he saw but unfortunately, Rojo wasn't that good either defensively or attacking wise.

 

[Leftback99]

Eventhough Blind was also solid as a left back, he was brought in as a midfielder which was the position he first played while Rojo played as a left back. Van Gaal didn't fancy Shaw because he didn't sign him nor did Shaw show any attacking instinct of an attacking fullback like Van Gaal's previous fullbacks such as Alaba, Lahm, even Blind. Van Gaal had first deployed a 352 setup which requires wingbacks but Shaw was terrible in the role.

Rojo played as a left back for the Argentina team that played against the Dutch team and was really good at going forward. I think he even scored good goals in the role for the Argentine. Van Gaal saw this and liked what he saw but unfortunately, Rojo wasn't that good either defensively or attacking wise.

I'm pretty sure Rojo was bought as a centre back and that's where he played most of his minutes. Either way, terrible judgement on his part.

 

[Kaglish10]

I'm pretty sure Rojo was bought as a centre back and that's where he played most of his minutes. Either way, terrible judgement on his part.

Rojo was horrible as a left back hence had to be moved to the central defence. He wasn't good either, especially his high risky passes which put often put the team into trouble, not to mention his mental defensive play but he was better there than as a leftback however, Van Gaal wanted more from his central back hence why Blind eventually got deployed as a CB. Shaw wasn't in the equation until in the second season.

 

[Leftback99]

Rojo was horrible as a left back hence had to be moved to the central defence. He wasn't good either, especially his high risky passes which put often put the team into trouble, not to mention his mental defensive play but he was better there than as a leftback however, Van Gaal wanted more from his central back hence why Blind eventually got deployed as a CB. Shaw wasn't in the equation until in the second season.

Shaw played the most minutes at left back in 14/15.

 

[edbe]

In my view he failed in all jobs outside the netherlands looking at the bigger picture. Given how good Barca and Bayern were and should be he didn't have a great record with them overall even if he did well some seasons.

Granted I don't have full insight into Ajax 1995 and how important LVG was in it. He probably did a great job there which is how he got his other jobs generally speaking, but his arrogance and stubborness made it harder for him to adapt after that. Add his lack of an eye for talent. The thing is there might also be other stronger factors behind that sucess than LVGs management. Given how people give him credit for stupid things which I know is bullshit about United they could do the same about a past when he had some luck. For me he is a very average manager with big flaws from everything I have seen since his Bayern days which is when I have followed him more closely.

I give him that he understands how bloody good Robben has been. One of my favorite players who has always been very underrated in my view. I think Real letting him go to Bayern was very stupid and yes credit for LVG going for him before anyone else (him being dutch probably helped). Him and Ronaldo would have beeen deadly for them together.

You are absolutely delusional.

Just to give you an example. Bayern plays the kind of attacking football these days thanks to LvG, not Pep, not Heynckes. Hoeness even confirms it in the media. Bayern never played offensive football. Always boring typical German 5-3-2 or 4-4-2. Bayern was in shambles when he took over from Klinsmann in 2009.

Bayern won the title, the national cup and reached the CL final in LvG's first year (2010) after a total makeover. Playing style and new players.

Lacks an eye for talent ?

You haven't got a clue. He has nothing but eyes for talent. He promoted many of the greatset players these past two decades: Xavi, Iniesta, Seedorf, Puyol, Muller, Kluivert, Davids, Rashford etc.etc.

I'm saying it again: you are absolutely delusional, totally clueless.

The only problem Louis has is his character and ego. The rest is pure football.

Very average managers is the category of Sam Allardyce, Roy Hodgson etc. Long balls and tactically totally inept.

 

[Paul_Scholes18]

You are absolutely delusional.

Just to give you an example. Bayern plays the kind of attacking football these days thanks to LvG, not Pep, not Heynckes. Hoeness even confirms it in the media. Bayern never played offensive football. Always boring typical German 5-3-2 or 4-4-2. Bayern was in shambles when he took over from Klinsmann in 2009.

Bayern won the title, the national cup and reached the CL final in LvG's first year (2010) after a total makeover. Playing style and new players.

Lacks an eye for talent ?

You haven't got a clue. He has nothing but eyes for talent. He promoted many of the greatset players these past two decades: Xavi, Iniesta, Seedorf, Puyol, Muller, Kluivert, Davids, Rashford etc.etc.

I'm saying it again: you are absolutely delusional, totally clueless.

The only problem Louis has is his character and ego. The rest is pure football.

Very average managers is the category of Sam Allardyce, Roy Hodgson etc. Long balls and tactically totally inept.

Just looking the stats up. Bayern got 3 more points in the league and got really lucky in the CL that season. Also scored at a similar rate to the previous year. You can't say they didn't get super lucky against us. Rafaels red card was cheap and stupid though and SAF should maybe have played it safe and taken him off. We also smashed them even if Rooney got injured who was our best player that season. I remember watching those games and feeling we were extremly dominant yet couldn't win. A bit like PSG against us this season to be fair when we dominated yet couldn't kill the game. Robbens goal was amazing though, but they didn't win by great management. The same against Fiorentina which I think was a more even game though. They did well in the semi final against Lyon, but it was a pretty weak sides to face at that stage. Also did well to beat Juventus in the last game in the group, but still only got 10 points.

They did win the league so credit to them. Although it was not the hardest league to win. I rate Robben very highly and getting him was the golden move for them. He should have won ballon d'or that year in my opinion even if Sneijder also had a magical season. LVG does seem to get a lot out of Robben, but it also an amazing player that I think has been great everywhere. Like I think if you have guys like Ronaldo, Messi and Robben it makes things easier for anyone. The same can be said for Pep though from the start having Messi, but he improved his side so much more than LVG has ever done.

If you look at things deeper you can see the main reasons why they did perform. The foundation bullshit I am not going to buy either with giving him credit for what Pep did.

 

[edbe]

If you look at things deeper you can see the main reasons why they did perform. The foundation bullshit I am not going to buy either with giving him credit for what Pep did.

You're absolutely hopeless, Hoeness, the Bayern president himself, confirmed in the media and on the Bayern Munich website that it was LvG who laid the foundation of the way Bayern currently plays.

https://fcbayern.com/de/news/2019/0...ktritt-profitieren-bis-heute-von-seinen-ideen

"Hoeness on Van-Gaals retirement: we benefit-to this day of his ideas

"A big guy leaves the football stage: Louis van Gaal announced the final end of his coaching career on Sunday as part of a TV show in the Netherlands. From July 2009 to April 2011, the now 67-year-old coached FC Bayern Munich, led the German champions into the Champions League final and the double win in 2010. With his legendary master speech in May 2010 on the town hall balcony At the Munich Marienplatz he secured himself a place in the heart of the Bayern fans as a self-proclaimed celebration beast.
"Louis van Gaal is technically one of the best coaches in the world. In my view, he is responsible for the fact that Bayern has fundamentally changed his football. Ball possession, positional play - that he has initiated significantly. Jupp Heynckes and Pep Guardiola have then continued and partially improved, "said club president Uli Hoeneß opposite fcbayern.com. "We still benefit from van Gaal's ideas to this day. But unfortunately he is a human being, who makes you very hard to get at. He always had a distance, so we never got as close as I wanted. As a specialist, however, I respect him to this day and wish him, after he has announced his retirement as a coach, all the best for the future. "

And who do you think educated Pep on how to play offensive football ?

It's from the same school of thought that formed LvG in his years as a youngster at Ajax youth academy and later as a young coach leading Ajax to two consecutive CL finals and a CL semi-final.

 

[Aloysius's Back 3]

You're absolutely hopeless, Hoeness, the Bayern president himself, confirmed in the media and on the Bayern Munich website that it was LvG who laid the foundation of the way Bayern currently plays.

https://fcbayern.com/de/news/2019/0...ktritt-profitieren-bis-heute-von-seinen-ideen

"Hoeness on Van-Gaals retirement: we benefit-to this day of his ideas

"A big guy leaves the football stage: Louis van Gaal announced the final end of his coaching career on Sunday as part of a TV show in the Netherlands. From July 2009 to April 2011, the now 67-year-old coached FC Bayern Munich, led the German champions into the Champions League final and the double win in 2010. With his legendary master speech in May 2010 on the town hall balcony At the Munich Marienplatz he secured himself a place in the heart of the Bayern fans as a self-proclaimed celebration beast.
"Louis van Gaal is technically one of the best coaches in the world. In my view, he is responsible for the fact that Bayern has fundamentally changed his football. Ball possession, positional play - that he has initiated significantly. Jupp Heynckes and Pep Guardiola have then continued and partially improved, "said club president Uli Hoeneß opposite fcbayern.com. "We still benefit from van Gaal's ideas to this day. But unfortunately he is a human being, who makes you very hard to get at. He always had a distance, so we never got as close as I wanted. As a specialist, however, I respect him to this day and wish him, after he has announced his retirement as a coach, all the best for the future. "

And who do you think educated Pep on how to play offensive football ?

It's from the same school of thought that formed LvG in his years as a youngster at Ajax youth academy and later as a young coach leading Ajax to two consecutive CL finals and a CL semi-final.

Don't do this to yourself mate - it's not worth it.

Most of the just want success even if it is in the shortest term - that's why they started crying out for Jose whilst not understanding that by the end of the second season LVG had TFM, CBj, Martial, Rashford, Lingard, Varela, Tuenzebe playing games against teams twice their age playing possession based football under a clear philosophy before the likes of Pep & Klopp came an introduced theirs to their PL clubs.

Our current manager Ole would have loved to take over from LVG as can see by the decision the man is making right this second.

It's a shame LVG came at a time people thought United were still this major club who can walk to success post SAF. They watched the never failing Jose fail and now have the lowest expectations but patience with Ole. Only if it was the other way around with LVG coming in after Jose failing - he would have had got the patience & low starting expectations that Ole is currently having. Would have potentially unearthed some gems in his final year before giving the job to a homegrown manager that could add some more whilst tweaking the tactics to his own accord.

Some people look at us and call us crazy for wanting the boring taught football of LVG to be continued - but ultimately it's just too complicated for some - We had work to do and we needed a godamn philosophy and young players to study it.

Jose - LVG - Ole should have happened but instead we just got a mishmash.

 

[pascell]

Rojo was brought in as a left back but failed at the role. Van Djik is a CB. Got the memo?

Of course, it went wrong with playing average youth players such as Blackett, McNair, James Reece etc. Van Gaal shouldn't have even entertained them from the beginning, let alone play them. That is how ridiculous those that keep saying he didn't have plan for young players.

Rojo was brought in as a LCB as LvG had his left with left footed players on the left side etc. Rojo was cover as LB and was horrific when played there, wasn't Shaw brought in before LvG and played there the most?

 

[Paul_Scholes18]

You're absolutely hopeless, Hoeness, the Bayern president himself, confirmed in the media and on the Bayern Munich website that it was LvG who laid the foundation of the way Bayern currently plays.

https://fcbayern.com/de/news/2019/0...ktritt-profitieren-bis-heute-von-seinen-ideen

"Hoeness on Van-Gaals retirement: we benefit-to this day of his ideas

"A big guy leaves the football stage: Louis van Gaal announced the final end of his coaching career on Sunday as part of a TV show in the Netherlands. From July 2009 to April 2011, the now 67-year-old coached FC Bayern Munich, led the German champions into the Champions League final and the double win in 2010. With his legendary master speech in May 2010 on the town hall balcony At the Munich Marienplatz he secured himself a place in the heart of the Bayern fans as a self-proclaimed celebration beast.
"Louis van Gaal is technically one of the best coaches in the world. In my view, he is responsible for the fact that Bayern has fundamentally changed his football. Ball possession, positional play - that he has initiated significantly. Jupp Heynckes and Pep Guardiola have then continued and partially improved, "said club president Uli Hoeneß opposite fcbayern.com. "We still benefit from van Gaal's ideas to this day. But unfortunately he is a human being, who makes you very hard to get at. He always had a distance, so we never got as close as I wanted. As a specialist, however, I respect him to this day and wish him, after he has announced his retirement as a coach, all the best for the future. "

And who do you think educated Pep on how to play offensive football ?

It's from the same school of thought that formed LvG in his years as a youngster at Ajax youth academy and later as a young coach leading Ajax to two consecutive CL finals and a CL semi-final.

His foundations ideas is a myth. With every manager they will bring in players and get the teams to play in a certain way. Although the teams do not have sucess playing the same way LVG wants his team to play. They want to pass the ball around, but so does a lot of different teams. Him being obesessed with keeping the ball in training can make them better at doing that, but most other things he do is not part of what makes teams great.
Yupp played a much more direct style in order to get the treble and they played far better football. Pep plays possesion football, but in a very different way to LVG.
I do think LVG put the poor foundations for us together with Mourinho in terms of selling and buying players in a poor way. Although I am not going to blame or credit him for what we are doing in the future.

What is a good or bad foundation depends on what happens after. We can say ooh SAF left a bad foundation here since we are doing worse after him. I don't think it was the best set of players, but you could build on it no doubt.
What happens depend on the guys after him and what they do. Mourinho laid the foundations for Zidanes win is as absurb as this. Although I think Glaziers and SAF deserves most credit selling them Ronaldo for such a low sum .

I don't think Pellegrini left great foundations for Pep and look at them now. To say LVG is behind Pep being great is stupid in my view just because they both play possesion football. All possesion managers that fail playing like LVG people would not mention.

LVG supporters though seem to give him credit for everything though and ignore all the problems he creates. Like all manager he does some good and some bad things. Although recently I say he has failed in all his big jobs since Ajax in terms of getting the teams to be at the right level for those clubs.

 

[George The Best]

Don't do this to yourself mate - it's not worth it.

Most of the just want success even if it is in the shortest term - that's why they started crying out for Jose whilst not understanding that by the end of the second season LVG had TFM, CBj, Martial, Rashford, Lingard, Varela, Tuenzebe playing games against teams twice their age playing possession based football under a clear philosophy before the likes of Pep & Klopp came an introduced theirs to their PL clubs.

Our current manager Ole would have loved to take over from LVG as can see by the decision the man is making right this second.

It's a shame LVG came at a time people thought United were still this major club who can walk to success post SAF. They watched the never failing Jose fail and now have the lowest expectations but patience with Ole. Only if it was the other way around with LVG coming in after Jose failing - he would have had got the patience & low starting expectations that Ole is currently having. Would have potentially unearthed some gems in his final year before giving the job to a homegrown manager that could add some more whilst tweaking the tactics to his own accord.

Some people look at us and call us crazy for wanting the boring taught football of LVG to be continued - but ultimately it's just too complicated for some - We had work to do and we needed a godamn philosophy and young players to study it.

Jose - LVG - Ole should have happened but instead we just got a mishmash.

I was enjoying this discussion until the bold bit. Have I missed something. Ole made a decision some seconds ago. What was it?

 

[edbe]

His foundations ideas is a myth. With every manager they will bring in players and get the teams to play in a certain way. Although the teams do not have sucess playing the same way LVG wants his team to play. They want to pass the ball around, but so does a lot of different teams. Him being obesessed with keeping the ball in training can make them better at doing that, but most other things he do is not part of what makes teams great.
Yupp played a much more direct style in order to get the treble and they played far better football. Pep plays possesion football, but in a very different way to LVG.
I do think LVG put the poor foundations for us together with Mourinho in terms of selling and buying players in a poor way. Although I am not going to blame or credit him for what we are doing in the future.

What is a good or bad foundation depends on what happens after. We can say ooh SAF left a bad foundation here since we are doing worse after him. I don't think it was the best set of players, but you could build on it no doubt.
What happens depend on the guys after him and what they do. Mourinho laid the foundations for Zidanes win is as absurb as this. Although I think Glaziers and SAF deserves most credit selling them Ronaldo for such a low sum .

I don't think Pellegrini left great foundations for Pep and look at them now. To say LVG is behind Pep being great is stupid in my view just because they both play possesion football. All possesion managers that fail playing like LVG people would not mention.

LVG supporters though seem to give him credit for everything though and ignore all the problems he creates. Like all manager he does some good and some bad things. Although recently I say he has failed in all his big jobs since Ajax in terms of getting the teams to be at the right level for those clubs.

How much did you drink tonight ?

Serious question.

 

[Ekeke]

The problem with this logic is, that if we could sign any player, then we could sign any manager. So LVG would never have got the job and we'd have Guardiola or someone

 

[Foxbatt]

He messed up at United as he was too rigid in his ways but that is his style in starting a new job. He only gives freedom once he is sure the players know his philosophy. LVG has not been a success at United. We had terrible players to he honest when he came to United. Then Woodward made it worse. He was a success for the Dutch National team too and that is when we got him. He took an unfancied Dutch side to the semi finals of the World Cup.
I have seen his Ajax side too. They too play in a certain way and some players have a lot of freedom within his concept. No one can say his Ajax side played boring football. But he never had the technical players he had at Ajax to get United to play his way.

 

[Paul_Scholes18]

How much did you drink tonight ?

Serious question.

In terms of good foundations Mourinho is way better at doing it than LVG looking at the results after he is leaving clubs as manager.
Although people are crazy to think he did give us any good foundations to work on even if Ole started well with his team.

LVG and Mourinho worked pretty well together at Barca from the start though in terms of results. So I guess I should not said it was poor results for Barca. Just the capacity with them is very high.
Maybe Mourinho turned LVG more defensive or the other way around. Maybe they should have been a duo here .

 

[shamans]

A drunken mess quite often.

Drunken boxing matches with Bardsley?

He wasn't in shape at all and often overweight. He couldn't play up front any longer and thanks to Moyes and Ed giving him a huge 5 year deal, LVG was very much stuck with very expensive, under performing player.

That moyes season if it weren't for Rooney and De Gea we'd have been 11th. Him, DDG and then Januzaj were our top performers.

 

[shamans]

LVG saw Depay and Schneiderlin as our solutions. Let's not rewrite history.

 

[gulli_G]

LVG saw Depay and Schneiderlin as our solutions. Let's not rewrite history.

LVG was a dinosaur who would rather have an ageing Schwienstieger than a prime Tony Koos (who went on to win 3x successive CL's).

 

[Moriarty]

In terms of good foundations Mourinho is way better at doing it than LVG looking at the results after he is leaving clubs as manager.
Although people are crazy to think he did give us any good foundations to work on even if Ole started well with his team.

LVG and Mourinho worked pretty well together at Barca from the start though in terms of results. So I guess I should not said it was poor results for Barca. Just the capacity with them is very high.
Maybe Mourinho turned LVG more defensive or the other way around. Maybe they should have been a duo here .

I noticed that you dodged the question. So are you a piss-artist or not?

 

[Betson]

The most telling part of the interview for me was the part where he said that while he was been interviewed for the job no one from the Club spoke about a playing system or Football philosophy of the club going forward. He said Utd were the only club he has managed where this was never spoken about beforehand.

It just illustrates that we have become a club with no football identity anymore , far too corporate in outlook with Football as a by product or afterthought, an adult Disneyland as Klopp might say.

 

[Paul_Scholes18]

I noticed that you dodged the question. So are you a piss-artist or not?

It is a question with little relevance. I didn't drink much anyway. Just as me asking you how many terrible LVG games you turned off from your memory does not effect what LVG did.
I will say that foundations are very vague though and that sometimes future sucess builds on what did happen many seasons before. Just I never hear people talk about the guys that set up the foundations for LVG to do well at Ajax or Barcelona. I guess Cruyff is talked about a lot, but not a lot of other people and managers. I looked up that Leo Beenhakker won the league before LVG, but he never gets mentioned to have helped set up some foundations for LVG.

The only guy that seem to be judged as a manager by foundations seem to be LVG. It is talked about to deflect his failures in his past jobs a lot. At Ajax they only won 3 league titles in like 15 years after LVG. Do not seem like great foundations there if that is what he did best. Rather people talk about LVG getting to 2 CL finals which is an amazing achievement by him and we should praise him for that. He did build those foundations himself being a coach there for 6 years so I would not look to give other people credit apart from the players he had and his assistants. Although his job as a manager is to bring those guys in as well and get them to perform.

LVG may have been a brilliant coach once, but he has not been in the recent past. We could discuss why. Age can often effect people no doubt. It is natural at all areas of life. Some managers can do great at high age, but many do decline as well.If he did a lot of job coaching details it might be harder for him to do that as he age (he is a tactical detail oriented coach rather than an overall big picture boss like SAF). If he is poor at picking coaches to help him it may explain a decline since they can't coach his ideas as well as himself.
He may also be stubborn to not change with the time since he thinks his old ways should work just because they worked before. There are many other possible explanations too though. I personally think his stubborness and low ability to adapt is the biggest reason why he struggles and why I don't think he is a great manager. Similar to Wenger in many ways I would say. I don't fully dislike his crazy mind all the time. Sometimes a crazy idea could work out well and it maybe worked at Ajax (I didn't follow everything he did there). Just some ideas like Phil Jones on corners make you wonder what he is thinking. While obvious solutions that all fans see are ignored because they might not be in line with his philosophy fully.

I think if some advanced psychologist could explain LVG for us that would be very interesting. Phil Jones on corners still just make my mind blow up. I am probably one of Phil Jones biggest defenders here, but I would rather play him as a striker than put him on corners. His football may be very dull, but his personality and mind is certainly not.

 

[Kag]

I still like Van Gaal. Our best manager post-Ferguson by a considerable distance, primarily because he was the only one that even attempted to build something that resembled a football team. It was a bloody boring one, but he gave it something of a go, which is more that can be said for the others.

He behaved with dignity (for the most part) even when at his most stressed. Given the pelters he got, I think that was quite admirable. And then there’s the FA Cup win; the only real trophy we’ve won since Ferguson left. That’s probably my favourite moment over the past six seasons.

 

[Aloysius's Back 3]

Again - people rate LVG as a manager that came here to win trophies

It's the same mindset that had people drooling over Jose Mourinho after him. Then they start blaming Woodward like they never thought about such a thing.

 

[Lee565]

He is the biggest part to blame in our current mess and the worse managerial appointment of all the post fergie managers, here the club is currently in need of central defenders and yet two defenders that would get into our first 11 were sold for sod all by him in Keane and Evans, he sold off so many players that loved and embodied the spirit of this club for a bunch of money grabbing, no backbone, bottling, under qualified flops.

Had Mourinho had the likes of Welbeck, Hernandez, Zaha, Kagawa, Rafael, Van Persie and Nani to choose from when he came to the club it surely would have been an easier task for him to get this team where it wanted to be than the deadwood he had to choose from and get rid off.

 

[Ajaxsuarez]

It is a question with little relevance. I didn't drink much anyway. Just as me asking you how many terrible LVG games you turned off from your memory does not effect what LVG did.
I will say that foundations are very vague though and that sometimes future sucess builds on what did happen many seasons before. Just I never hear people talk about the guys that set up the foundations for LVG to do well at Ajax or Barcelona. I guess Cruyff is talked about a lot, but not a lot of other people and managers. I looked up that Leo Beenhakker won the league before LVG, but he never gets mentioned to have helped set up some foundations for LVG.

The only guy that seem to be judged as a manager by foundations seem to be LVG. It is talked about to deflect his failures in his past jobs a lot. At Ajax they only won 3 league titles in like 15 years after LVG. Do not seem like great foundations there if that is what he did best. Rather people talk about LVG getting to 2 CL finals which is an amazing achievement by him and we should praise him for that. He did build those foundations himself being a coach there for 6 years so I would not look to give other people credit apart from the players he had and his assistants. Although his job as a manager is to bring those guys in as well and get them to perform.

eh I dunno. Cruijff was the manager and DoF at Ajax from 85 to 88 and in that time overhauled the academy and its recruitment, (together with Jany van der Veen, the man who scouted a young Cruijff on the streeets himself). In that time, they brought into the academy Davids, Kluivert, and I think Seedorf (Reiziger as well, I think). Cruijff also personally scouted and brought into the academy the De Boer brothers. Cruijff bought Blind. Cruijff created the 3-4-3 system that Van Gaal tweaked.

also your point about Van Gaal's "foundation" in terms of how many leagues were won after he left is unfair because that whole team simply disappeared as a whole in those 3 years following the final as a result of the Bosman ruling.

That said, he came back as TD in the early 2000s and had a simply disastrous effect. He came up with the "masterplan" with the Dutch FA in 2001 overhauling the Dutch youth system, and personally oversaw that in his years at Ajax. Those changes are literally the moment Dutch world class talent dried up. Cruijff came back with his revolution at Ajax around 2010, and look what's coming through again now. It's honestly no coincidence.

Van Gaal is a great manager in terms of recognising young talent and getting the most out of them, but his views on producing players from an even younger age has proven disastrous

 

[Paul_Scholes18]

eh I dunno. Cruijff was the manager and DoF at Ajax from 85 to 88 and in that time overhauled the academy and its recruitment, (together with Jany van der Veen, the man who scouted a young Cruijff on the streeets himself). In that time, they brought into the academy Davids, Kluivert, and I think Seedorf (Reiziger as well, I think). Cruijff also personally scouted and brought into the academy the De Boer brothers. Cruijff bought Blind. Cruijff created the 3-4-3 system that Van Gaal tweaked.

also your point about Van Gaal's "foundation" in terms of how many leagues were won after he left is unfair because that whole team simply disappeared as a whole in those 3 years following the final as a result of the Bosman ruling.

That said, he came back as TD in the early 2000s and had a simply disastrous effect. He came up with the "masterplan" with the Dutch FA in 2001 overhauling the Dutch youth system, and personally oversaw that in his years at Ajax. Those changes are literally the moment Dutch world class talent dried up. Cruijff came back with his revolution at Ajax around 2010, and look what's coming through again now. It's honestly no coincidence.

Van Gaal is a great manager in terms of recognising young talent and getting the most out of them, but his views on producing players from an even younger age has proven disastrous

Thanks for more info. I am only 26 so those years is very alien for me. I mainly know about Uniteds history from reading and watching at a deeper level. Based on this it sounds like LVG had a hit and mix effect on Holland which did hit the jackpot in 1995/1996.
Yes I agree about the part of foundations in terms of his current crop of players. Although if he changed the culture around the clubs in terms of having methods that did develop players much better than others we should have seen them.
I think in terms of playing style foundations most teams do not keep playing exactly the same way with new managers anyway. Also teams change coaches for training too.

Anyway regarding his eye for talents I might not agree, but I base that mostly on his time here. Our transfers under him were terrible. Woodward might have been part of that problem I guess which he mentions here about him not even asking about what type of style he wanted to play. I think Rashford was a fluke since he only played due to an insane amount of injuries. Had he benched Rooney for Rashford out of the blue I would have given him great credit for that.

As I have said before getting Robben at Bayern was a great move. Obvious for me since I rate him extremly high on all levels. I think the only problem with Robben has been injuries. LVGs great name in Holland probably helped him more getting him than having the eye to see that he was an amazing player. Why Real sold him though I do wonder. Ronaldo played on the other side so don't think that would have been a problem having them both. I guess they wanted to make space for new market signings rather than keeping a great player. Robben is not a flashy name or a very marketable player, but as a manager having a world class player focused on just football must be gold. LVG and big egos do not always get along and so for him Robben is probably his ideal star after a Messi rather than a Neymar or Ronaldo.

 

[Sandikan]

Are our ex managers the most bitter out there?
Moyes only just stopped moaning a while back, and now VG is piping up.

Not looking forward to when Jose's inevitable gagging clause is extinguished, I expect he'll be at it every week.