I mean more in terms of what they offer currently.
Obviously prime CR7 was much better than Mbappe.
Haaland vs Mbappe - Heirs Apparent
- Thread starter Pexbo
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Obviously prime CR7 was much better than Mbappe.
I used the same logic. Mbappé doesn't offer what Messi does, he offers what Ronaldo did in the early 2010s.
Wasn't Haaland scoring a goal a game for Norway? Imagine him in a much better NT.
A couple 6 yard tap-ins got Haaland into conversations with Mbappe, which is both sad and hilarious. SofaScore has ruined everyone’s perception of reality . Mbappe is in a completely different stratosphere
Haaland is not even City's best striker (Alvarez is). Close this thread ffs.
Haaland is not even City's best striker (Alvarez is). Close this thread ffs.
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Yet Mbappe is in France and won’t outscore Haaland playing in the PL? And Haaland has more UCL goals?
Look at their heat map and the way they play, and yet Mbappé still had more goals and assists than Haaland in 2021/22 by far. They’re not at all playing the same role that it just shows how good Mbappé is that it’s even close between the two when Haaland’s sole job is to wait for a pass and score.
I just wish this comparison would die already but who am I kidding, they’re not on the same level to start off but they also play vastly different positions. At least CR7 and Messi were occupying similar spaces albeit from different wings even though Messi was far more of a playmaker. One look at the heat map of both players will tell you everything you need to know, it’s not a valid comparison but it’ll still get made because now that CR7 and Messi are on their last legs we ‘need’ a new rivalry to get the social media going.
I think you can compare players playing in different positions and I have not said Haaland is better anyway. Responded to a poster referencing Haaland tap ins.
Haaland is a supreme finisher but Mbappe can make things happen and therefore simply offers more.
Eh, I don't but fair enough if you do. You're responding to a Haaland troll though, I wouldn't put much stock into what he says, it's been pretty outrageous in regards to Haaland.
I think you can but looking at players attributes and what they bring to the game.
Looking at all their attributes positive and negative and assessing as a whole. But thats just my view.
Ha didn’t realise who the poster was, fair enough
Haaland has a better attitude and cares only about football it seems. Would much rather have Haaland in my team than the circus created by Mbappe.
I would love to see Mbappe at our club...he would light up OT.
What's being inferred here? What else besides football does Mbappe care about?
If it’s true he’s stayed at PSG because he can dictate the role of his and others at the club then it says a bit about someone especially at his age. Once he’s had that will he be happy anywhere else where he’s not in control?
Haaland’s a great goalscorer, may turn out to be one of the best goalscorers ever.
Mbappe’s the best player at this tournament, bar none. He’s a very special footballer indeed, so gifted.
It’s not even close between the two.
Mbappe’s the best player at this tournament, bar none. He’s a very special footballer indeed, so gifted.
It’s not even close between the two.
Wonder if this will be a watered-down version of Messi and Ronaldo where people try to pretend that it's close between them, when it isn't really.
It's a shame that Mbappe signed a new deal to stay in France as opposed to making the move overseas to Madrid. Playing in the French league is just a whole bowl of nothing.
Or it's a great thing that a top french player actually plays in France? And others should do the same?
In the same way football fans want to see the best Brazilian talents ditch South America for Europe, you want to see the best players compete week in week out in the best leagues (at the moment, England and Spain). Mbappe is a potential legacy player so he sort of needs to be thrashing it out in the PL or La Liga.
Although I agree with the sentiment, I think it hurts his legacy if he stays there for his entire career.
Would Cruyff have the same legacy if he stayed in Ajax for his entire career? Maybe - but I don't think so.
(A great legacy either way of course - but I think he cemented his GOAT-ish legacy when he moved to Barcelona.)
I wouldn't call that Football fans, that kind of attitude is a plague on modern Football and extremely disrespectful.
Interesting comparasion. Cruyff legacy while playing is mostly Ajax and national team, especially 1974 performance. He really didn't set the world alight during his Barcelona time. He was very good there, don't get me wrong, but in terms of both individual and team honours it didn't add much to his status.
Cruyff legacy for Barcelona (and football) goes way beyond playing though and that's way he is the most influential person in football hystory. But, if we are talking strictly about his playing days his legacy was cemented with Ajax and Netherlands.
If let's say Mbappe (on top of his WC performances) can add 3 CL during his time with PSG, same like Cruyff did with Ajax, no one will question him and he will become an all time great.
lovely condescension! I find your comment odd. People want to watch the greatest talents in the best leagues and competitions on a regular basis - shock horror. I mean, Mbappe is still in France because the money and power offered to him was obscene - it's the epitome of the one of the most significant issues in football. He'd be earning much less in Madrid. God knows how anything that has been said could be considered extremely disrespectful.There is a big difference between wanting to see a player move for personal reasons and claim that playing in a league means nothing. And players have been leaving Ligue 1 for money which somehow bothers no one until players join or stay in Ligue 1 for money. And it's disrespectful to reduce a league to nothing.
It’d be great if top players would stay at Lyon or Marseille also, but we know that won’t happen, they’ll move abroad else be hovered up by PSG.
So yes, I get the point in principle and pre-PSG takeover it’d absolutely be a great thing.
If you look at the long term. Maybe like 13 years from now, I can see Haaland doing much better than Mbappe which makes him having the best career out of the two.
Mbappe relies too much on his pace while Halaand will still be scoring goals no matter what.
Mbappe relies too much on his pace while Halaand will still be scoring goals no matter what.
It's a great thing no matter what because the alternative is not have great players at all. It's also a point of reference for younger players who are more likely to be tempted to stay a bit longer.
Very few people outside of France watches the French league, though. So for football fans (assuming we're allowed to call them that), only being able to see a potential generational talent like Mbappe properly compete via international competitions like the CL and every couple of years in international tournaments is significant. The skill gap between PSG and the rest of the league is so distorted it makes it disinteresting.
Pretty much.
Ironically, Mbappe could in theory get to Ronaldo's level/career.
Again the issue is for someone to claim that it's a whole bowl of nothing. Everything you have said to justify that first claim is understandable and it's also not close to the claim you initially made. Football fans appreciate Football from many leagues and they don't claim that playing in a particular league amounts to nothing. To put an end to this conversation, there is a difference between wanting to see a player in a league that you are likely to follow closely and claiming that anything outside of those leagues amounts to nothing, also it doesn't make you a football fan, at best it makes you a PL fan or a fan of whatever league you follow.
Mbappe is more like a younger wing forward version of Ronaldo at 23
Haaland is more like an older poacher version of Ronaldo at 30
I'm interested to see if Mbappe can get there. I don't see him getting anywhere near Messi. If I was to speculate, I could see Mbappe reaching his own island of being better than the likes of Henry and other top strikers/forwards of his and other generations, but falling short of Ronaldo.
He might have the same electrifying pace, runs, skills and sharp shooting to reach similar height. But he might not have the same athleticism, ariel ability, adaptiveness and discipline to last as long.
Without being disrespectful, it is a bowl of nothing when we are measuring up Mbappe's legacy against the other greats. If he stays in France for the rest of his career, it'll count against him. Winning ten Ligue 1s just doesn't carry any sway. So, it's entirely relevant to the claim I initially made - unsure why you'd say otherwise.
Re. the bolded. That seems like a very odd qualifier for you to make. I'd say anyone that watches the PL, attends games regularly (not just United), watches La Liga, Serie A, and CL, as well as international tournaments, can call themselves a football fan.
Someone that actually watches all of those leagues should have the sense and experience to appreciate players and leagues enough to not claim that a league that is continuously producing quality players amounts to nothing. To me it's a very strange mentality, especially when you mention Serie A which has been fairly close to Ligue 1 for the majority of the past decade. You watch Serie A regularly but Ligue 1 is beneath you or top players?
And you can call yourself a Football fan, that's not the point that I was trying to make even though I have to admit that it sounded like it. The point was that the claim that you made isn't one made by a Football fan or more accurately not because you are a Football fan, it's made because you are a fan of other leagues.
It amounts to nothing in the conversation about the legacies of the greatest players of all time, in that it'll count against Mbappe if he doesn't compete in more competitive domestic leagues. I outlined as much in the first sentence of the post you quoted. I'm not saying that the French League is nothing at all, in any context. I love French players, I love France, and I have a big soft spot for Marseille (the place and the team). I wasn't trying to be disparaging of French football as a whole, so apologies for the miscommunication if that's how it came across.
We need Florentino Perez to pledge to bring both Mbappe and Haaland to Real to create the most deadly strike pairing since Ronaldo and Vieri.
Okay, I see what you were trying to say. Since Mbappé's debut, Ligue 1 has been no less competititve than the Premier League, Serie A or La Liga, only the Bundesliga has been different to the other leagues.
Cruyff was transferred to Barcelona when he was 26 years old at that time in 1973. In 1973, Cruyff was already established as the best player/attacker in the world( Kaiser was a defender). You can't deny that Cruyff's legacy only as a player was made by his playing days in Ajax both the domestic league and European tournament. At 26 years old before he moved to Barcelona for a world record transfer fee, he was already won 15 titles with Ajax.
Ajax[12]
- Eredivisie: 1965–66, 1966–67, 1967–68, 1969–70, 1971–72, 1972–73,
- KNVB Cup: 1966–67, 1969–70, 1970–71, 1971–72,
- European Cup: 1970–71, 1971–72, 1972–73
- European Super Cup: 1972
- Intercontinental Cup: 1972
6 league titles, 4 KNVB Cup, 3 European Cup, 1 European Super Cup, 1 Intercontinental Cup( didn't play in 1973 and 1971). That's combined 15 trophies, which were/are considered great achievements or successful as a footballer. I'm not talking about his awards at that time which were counted as enormous numbers of awards.
Player[12]
Cruyff receiving the 1971 Ballon d'Or
Cruyff receiving the 1971 Ballon d'Or
- Ballon d'Or: 1971, 1973
- Eredivisie top scorer: 1966–67, 1971–72
- KNVB Cup top scorer: 1966–67, 1967–68, 1969–70, 1970–71, 1971–72
- European Cup top scorer: 1971–72
- Dutch Footballer of the Year: 1968,[216] 1972,
- Dutch Sportsman of the Year: 1973
- IOC European Footballer of the Season: 1970–71, 1972–73[220]
Wow, he got 15 personal awards at that time, which equaled his trophies at Ajax. At that time, Ajax's biggest rival was Happel's Feyenoord. Happel's Feyenoord was the first team in the world that mainly used a 4-3-3 system successfully both domestically and at the European level( and yes before Michel's Ajax). At that time, the Dutch league was considered a top 5 league in the world during the early 1970s (the peak period of Cruyff) and was in the building process to the next level in the late 1960s.
In Barcelona, he was still successful and considered one of the best players in the world. But, he faced some big declines both in statistics and in the level of performance since 1976 ( you can watch his performances in 1976 both friendlies and Euro, and compare him to his previous performance in WC 1974). He finished his career as a top-10 player in the world at only maybe age 30 years old. So, someone can say that he lacks the definition of longevity at the top level. In Barcelona, Although, he established himself as one of the most influential people in football history, I would say it's not only his performances on the pitch but it's come from other departments too.
Would Cruyff's legacy be the same at Ajax?
My answer- is yes as a footballer, but no as a football person. I'm confident that if he continued playing at Ajax until the late 1970s, he would've been even more successful in terms of trophies( including getting one or two more European Cup) and even personal awards. No, as a football person, I think everyone knows what he has impacted on Barcelona until the present day and it has been traditional for Barcelona in both terms of playing and other terms.
The gap between the Dutch league and the Spanish League wasn't that far in the 1970s era. It was closed more than you think especially in the early 1970s when the Dutch league was considered to be a winner compared to Spanish League.
For Mbappe, we will see later what he will do and choose next.
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How so? In that time the PL has had 4 different winners (Man City, Liverpool, Chelsea, and Leicester), Ligue 1 has had 3. The points difference between the winner in PSG and the teams below them is also completely insane.