Half the squad gone in just over a year

It feels like the "deadwood" thing has been a theme on here for about 10 years now.

What actually happens is players get older, or don't react well to the manager changing every 2 years, where they might not fit or be able to adjust to the new one's ideals. Or their mate might get dropped, sold, they might not adapt to the environment or cope well with being criticised every single week, etc.

Deadwood to me is someone who sits on the bench all season or makes about 8 appearances in 2 years. We've had a few of those but even then it's generally been injuries rather than anything else.

When someone's making 30+ appearances a year like most of those names in the opening post, it means they aren't dead wood, and if they leave someone needs to replace them and fill the gap...and if you look at how we seem to get progressively worse every time this happens, we clearly aren't replacing them very well.

Just from the OP list. Mctominay would significantly improve our current squad, yet was mocked on here as a United player. Rashford had multiple seasons where he'd get 20-30 goals. Constantly slated for it. No one in our current squad is capable of that. Bissaka despite the caf thinking he was the worst fullback ever, was a better right back than anyone we've picked either there or as wing back since (I rate Amad highly but he's not a defender). Varane is better than any of our current defenders. Eriksen even with no legs is a better CM than playing a no10 there. Garnacho had more goal contributions than almost anyone else in our squad last year. So far this season we've played Mason Mount instead who will not get near the same numbers.

We aren't actually shipping out deadwood. We are just moving players on that were contributing to the team, and then not replacing them properly.

What a wild take.

A retired Varane is better than Yoro?

Rashford still living off the glories of 3 seasons ago despite doing sweet fa since? (Mbeumo literally scored more PL goals last year than Rashford’s best ever PL season too)

Eriksen, currently a free agent, better than Bruno, our best player, in CM?

Christ :lol:
 
I don’t think it’s always as straightforward as us recruiting and subsequently removing garbage players. Certain player profiles didn’t suit the current environment at United - there doesn’t always have to be a single cause for a failed transfer, it could well be both the club and player.
 
Wow, that is some big changes and in quite a short a time.

One of the things that must be annoying for United fans and I don't know why it is (the pressure of playing at United maybe?) but so many cast-offs seem to then do well elsewhere.

Off the top of my head (and there will be more I'm sure): McTominey, Elanga, Anthony, Wan-Bissaka, Dan James... David De Gea - I'm not sure about the last one - did he play in season 24/25?
 
It's mad, 7 of the team that started that cup final have either been sold, loaned out or released.


Is it mad though? We're going through a rebuild.

Varane - Retired
Amrabat - Loan ended
Onana - Good riddance. What's mad is his form here
Rashford - Another mad drop in form
AWB - Mazaraoui is an upgrade, especially in the attacking department
McTerminator - Could've been a good squad player, but he's found his place
Garnacho - Rated him, but poor attitude. Might regret this in the future like in the case of McTom.

5/7 quite justified in my books
 
That's the worry for me, Ten Hag took over a squad that finished 3rd, 2nd and 6th (under Rangnick) and that 6th place finish felt like a new low post SAF, we were woeful that season and it didn't seem like it could get much worse. He took the majority of that squad to 3rd in his first season but then gutted it, he then finished 8th and that was the lowest point the club had been in 40 odd years. Then with the squad Ten Hag built we finished 15th last season and granted there were mitigating circumstances. If we finished 6th this year it'll be looked upon as a great achievement to jump 9 places up the table. But I wouldn't be able to shake the feeling that we would have wasted 4 years and about £800m just to get back to the level we were under Rangnick.

I hope this is the last time we need a rebuild and there'll be no more 'deadwood' for the managers to clear out if Ineos are building the squad with a lng term plan in mind beyond Amorim. From here on out I hope when/if a manager fails the fanbase stop blaming the players every single time.
It makes me sad that can and always does seem to get worse.

But maybe, just maybe, the players need to put the work in. A lot of it isn’t their fault, as some of them aren’t good enough to play for us. But still.
 
Wow, that is some big changes and in quite a short a time.

One of the things that must be annoying for United fans and I don't know why it is (the pressure of playing at United maybe?) but so many cast-offs seem to then do well elsewhere.

Off the top of my head (and there will be more I'm sure): McTominey, Elanga, Anthony, Wan-Bissaka, Dan James... David De Gea - I'm not sure about the last one - did he play in season 24/25?
This wasn’t even a thing until last season, quite the opposite - with Mourinho’s “where they play / if they play” quote trotted out regularly.

Some of those you’ve listed are a stretch as well. Antony (who I think will revert to type this season), Elanga and McTominay are the only ones you could really argue look much better.
 
Looking at that list, the three I'm saddest about are McTominay, Garnacho and Hojlund.

I liked the idea of the 'future' Man United with Garnacho, Hojlund, Mainoo and Amad. Sad how it's gone / going with three of them so far.

And we didn't utilise McTominay in his best position for much of his time here, and so failed to get the best out of him. Mind you, so did Scotland for his first few years with them - they even played him as a CB for a decent spell. It's a shame we couldn't find a system to get the best from his ability.
 
Wow, that is some big changes and in quite a short a time.

One of the things that must be annoying for United fans and I don't know why it is (the pressure of playing at United maybe?) but so many cast-offs seem to then do well elsewhere.

Off the top of my head (and there will be more I'm sure): McTominey, Elanga, Anthony, Wan-Bissaka, Dan James... David De Gea - I'm not sure about the last one - did he play in season 24/25?
It's not annoying because its not really true.

They've nearly all dropped to a lower standard of football. That's the one's who've moved and done ok.

Then there's a whole bunch of others who've done nothing since moving.
 
All these "good" responses. Even one saying INEOS have done a great job.

That squad finished 8th and won the FA Cup, and the year before finished 3rd and won the league cup.

The half a new squad we've replaced it with finished 15th with an average of 1 goal a game. It needs to massively improve just to get to the same level.

This place is so obsessed with hating on our own players people are genuinely blind to anything positive they do or bring.

Because frankly all of those players were not good enough and a lot of people believe we have a better squad now, just a worse manager and a system which makes football very complicated (jury still out on Amorim, but i am not convinced). ETH realized that we had shit players, the best way to utilize them was to play chaotic football because the players can not create for shit and on break with the pace of Rashford and Bruno's ability to find him, we could get some joy. Also helped that Eriksen was semi usable and Casemiro could run.

Once Eriksen got injured by Carroll he was never the same player, Casemiro also checked out after league cup final,and Rashford got his contract, so we tanked to 8th place next season.
 
Because frankly all of those players were not good enough and a lot of people believe we have a better squad now, just a worse manager and a system which makes football very complicated (jury still out on Amorim, but i am not convinced).

A lot of United fans were saying similar on here 2 years ago under Ten Hag.

ETH realized that we had shit players, the best way to utilize them was to play chaotic football because the players can not create for shit and on break with the pace of Rashford and Bruno's ability to find him, we could get some joy. Also helped that Eriksen was semi usable and Casemiro could run.

By the time Ten Hag started ultilizing his nonsense ball in 2023, he'd bought 60-70% of the squad. So no he didn't start playing that way because he suddenly 'realized' our players were shit. He built the squad to play that style of football, but the football was batshit and wouldn't have worked with just about any squad of players.

Once Eriksen got injured by Carroll he was never the same player, Casemiro also checked out after league cup final,and Rashford got his contract, so we tanked to 8th place next season.

The 8th place was mostly down to Ten Hags lunatic set-up with no midfield to be fair.
 
Because frankly all of those players were not good enough and a lot of people believe we have a better squad now, just a worse manager and a system which makes football very complicated (jury still out on Amorim, but i am not convinced). ETH realized that we had shit players, the best way to utilize them was to play chaotic football because the players can not create for shit and on break with the pace of Rashford and Bruno's ability to find him, we could get some joy. Also helped that Eriksen was semi usable and Casemiro could run.

Once Eriksen got injured by Carroll he was never the same player, Casemiro also checked out after league cup final,and Rashford got his contract, so we tanked to 8th place next season.
Well said
 
Berrada's 2 year policy in effect which makes sense. McTominay probably the only real loss to an extent (popular in dressing room, had his clutch moments like Maguire despite being derided by fanbase at times) but PSR encourages teams to sell their youth. Glad he's got the recognition and appreciation at Napoli.
What's the 2 year policy, 2 years to prove yourself?
 
Is it mad though? We're going through a rebuild.

Varane - Retired
Amrabat - Loan ended
Onana - Good riddance. What's mad is his form here
Rashford - Another mad drop in form
AWB - Mazaraoui is an upgrade, especially in the attacking department
McTerminator - Could've been a good squad player, but he's found his place
Garnacho - Rated him, but poor attitude. Might regret this in the future like in the case of McTom.

5/7 quite justified in my books

Mad, as in unusual.

Amrabat was a monster in that final, I don't think Ugarte is an upgrade on him.
 
I’m no Amorim super fan and have in fact been very disappointed in his time at United so far but this thread as indirectly a positive to him to remember the utter shit show he inherited and piece by piece is having to dismantle and rearrange. Onana today being yet another casing point.
 
So the open heart surgery has been done and all about recovery and the response to follow up treatment?
We’ve done the open heart surgery, cleaned up all the surrounding arteries, sewn it back up, but accidentally put the old heart back in by mistake instead of the transplant.

We still need major midfield surgery
 
I think the management finally got it. Mouriho has always bought established players and who has work with, Ole is always chasing the next super star. ETH was asked to change the play we play and he decided to buy players that he knows (weakness league and physically ill-suited for EPL). With Ineos, managers/coaches no longer decide on the players they want. Ineos will identify these players and discuss with the coach. This should be the way that it is run. ETH was the worst, without any experience in EPL and he decided those players, it blows my mind that it wasn't even questioned.
 
Loving how ruthless INEOS are. Wish we had done this years and years ago, but given how bad the Glazers were at signing players probably a good thing we didnt.
We were ruthless under ETH too. That squad there was a rebuild after we let go like half of the previous squad in ETH's first season.

It's not exclusive to INEOS.
 
We were ruthless under ETH too. That squad there was a rebuild after we let go like half of the previous squad in ETH's first season.

It's not exclusive to INEOS.

A lot of people seem to have missed this. It's odd.
 
A lot of United fans were saying similar on here 2 years ago under Ten Hag.



By the time Ten Hag started ultilizing his nonsense ball in 2023, he'd bought 60-70% of the squad. So no he didn't start playing that way because he suddenly 'realized' our players were shit. He built the squad to play that style of football, but the football was batshit and wouldn't have worked with just about any squad of players.



The 8th place was mostly down to Ten Hags lunatic set-up with no midfield to be fair.
The squad we had under Ole was pretty good. This front 6 is very balanced. Plus Cavani on bench

Rashford Martial Greenwood
Bruno
Matic Pogba

Then we signed Varane and Ronaldo and Sancho, which made us even stronger (arguably that season we really under achieved with Ole and Ragnick), and with Luis Enrique for example I am confident we would have been a title challenger.

But unfortunately our luck with injuries, aging, off field issues resulted in us losing all of these players in a quick span (some rightly or wrongly, you can argue)

Cavani (become 2nd choice, left)
Ronaldo (ETH dropped him caused a scene and left)
Greenwood (off field issues)
Matic (aged a lot and could not run)
Pogba (Injuries)
Martial (injuries)
Varane (Injuries)

This Resulted in us having a weaker squad with needed a lot of investment. From now onwards we actually spent money on shit signings and never truly replaced the above players. We have been unlucky plus lack of vision and poor signings (shown below) shows why we came to our worst place finish last season, with a manager which has all to prove.

Hojlund
Antony
Casemiro
Onana
Mount
 
Puts into perspective on how much dross ETH brought to the club

I truly believe his reign has set us back for years. The only thing he can't be blamed for is Sancho, who turned out to be a massive lazy twat.
 
The squad we had under Ole was pretty good. This front 6 is very balanced. Plus Cavani on bench

Rashford Martial Greenwood
Bruno
Matic Pogba

Then we signed Varane and Ronaldo and Sancho, which made us even stronger (arguably that season we really under achieved with Ole and Ragnick), and with Luis Enrique for example I am confident we would have been a title challenger.

But unfortunately our luck with injuries, aging, off field issues resulted in us losing all of these players in a quick span (some rightly or wrongly, you can argue)

Cavani (become 2nd choice, left)
Ronaldo (ETH dropped him caused a scene and left)
Greenwood (off field issues)
Matic (aged a lot and could not run)
Pogba (Injuries)
Martial (injuries)
Varane (Injuries)

This Resulted in us having a weaker squad with needed a lot of investment. From now onwards we actually spent money on shit signings and never truly replaced the above players. We have been unlucky plus lack of vision and poor signings (shown below) shows why we came to our worst place finish last season, with a manager which has all to prove.

Hojlund
Antony
Casemiro
Onana
Mount

I wouldn't strongly disagree with any of that mate, all I'm saying is Ten Hag wasn't some victim who was forced to play his chaotic brand of no midfield football because of the squad. He built that squad specifically to play that brand of football, our transfers under him were poor mostly because he was the one shaping the transfer strategy and identifying most of our targets.
 
A lot of people seem to have missed this. It's odd.
yes, it was a rebuild under ETH but one where the clueless Murtough and his clowns allowed the manager to dictate almost every signing. A host of former Ajax players or those that had had a good game against Ajax. It was unprecedented in top level football. Its far from perfect but we now seem to have a more credible recruitment process, where Amorim is the coach and his much less influence.
 
yes, it was a rebuild under ETH but one where the clueless Murtough and his clowns allowed the manager to dictate almost every signing. A host of former Ajax players or those that had had a good game against Ajax. It was unprecedented in top level football. Its far from perfect but we now seem to have a more credible recruitment process, where Amorim is the coach and his much less influence.

Indeed I agree but my point was going off some posts it seems that virtual complete rebuild seems have have passed unnoticed for some.
 
I wouldn't strongly disagree with any of that mate, all I'm saying is Ten Hag wasn't some victim who was forced to play his chaotic brand of no midfield football because of the squad. He built that squad specifically to play that brand of football, our transfers under him were poor mostly because he was the one shaping the transfer strategy and identifying most of our targets.
Agreed. I would also go on to add he may have been unlucky with few injuries and off field issues but the signings he made has truly set us back. Hojlund, Casemiro, Antony, Onana, Ugarte and Mount all players have been poor signings for the amount we have spent and the value we have extracted from these players.
 
We were ruthless under ETH too. That squad there was a rebuild after we let go like half of the previous squad in ETH's first season.

It's not exclusive to INEOS.

Nah, I'd say they're pretty different.

We didn't bin off young senior players other than Pereira in his first season. We got rid of a bunch of players at the end of their contracts or youngsters that wouldn't get a chance (Garner, Chong).

Second season similar story with the exception of Fred, Henderson and Elanga going. De Gea was the only one with a big reputation but to me he was in a similar position as Casemiros is now. Both nearing the end of their careers on huge money. I wouldn't call it ruthless if we binned off Casemiros, it's common sense.

We've removed Rashford, Garnacho, Hojlund, Antony, Sancho and Onana this Summer. That's a huge statement. That's unprecedented for United. Even if you argue that Sancho doesn't count as he's a waster, it's still 5 youngish senior players removed. I can't recall that level of squad upheaval since the early years of Sir Alex.
 
Bruno/Case/Maguire/Shaw will be off from the books next year which leaves us with very few players to deal with like Dalot, Ugarte and Mount.
They are not trouble having around so if they don't raise their game they could go too.

I agree why Ruben wants Watkins, Martinez as they can make an instant impact but club is taking long term route which I understand..
so hope players like Dorgu, Leon, Lemmens, Sesko settle in quickly and start delivering on the pitch.

If you look into the last 2 windows, Ruben got only 2 senior players in Cunha, Mbeumo so he is still playing most of the dross we had over the years.
 
This thread has me wondering if there is a player in the team Amorim has actually improved.
 
Bruno/Case/Maguire/Shaw will be off from the books next year which leaves us with very few players to deal with like Dalot, Ugarte and Mount.
They are not trouble having around so if they don't raise their game they could go too.

I agree why Ruben wants Watkins, Martinez as they can make an instant impact but club is taking long term route which I understand..
so hope players like Dorgu, Leon, Lemmens, Sesko settle in quickly and start delivering on the pitch.

If you look into the last 2 windows, Ruben got only 2 senior players in Cunha, Mbeumo so he is still playing most of the dross we had over the years.
Wouldn't be so sure about Shaw leaving next year. He's a really big player for us and I have a feeling he'll stay fit consistently this season.
 
We were ruthless under ETH too. That squad there was a rebuild after we let go like half of the previous squad in ETH's first season.

It's not exclusive to INEOS.
Most of them left because their contract ended iirc. Mata, Pogba, Matic, Cavani and Lingard left on a free and our only significant sale was Garner, that too was for peanuts. None of these were first team players (Pogba was but it was common knowledge that he was leaving and his injuries didn’t help him).

There was no rebuild. We were lucky that these contracts ended. This is the first time we are actually able to get players out in time without hampering their value.