This has almost baited me into one of my rants/essays, but it’s way too early on a Monday morning
Hands up if you owe Fred an apology
- Thread starter MAME DIOUF 32
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran hold a long overdue conversation about United's awful league form with 1 win in 7. They discuss a disappointing draw at Bournemouth, a not so disappointing draw against Liverpool and a crushing defeat at Chelsea - Is time nearly over for Erik Ten Hag?
Then in a special second half of the pod, Nik welcomes Natalie ( https://twitter.com/natalie_17) to discuss the fortunes of Manchester United Women as they booked a place in the FA Cup Final after a historic first ever win vs. Chelsea.
Thank goodness for that, because it wouldn’t be healthy or constructive in a thread where people are encouraged to admit they were wrong about something!This has almost baited me into one of my rants/essays, but it’s way too early on a Monday morning
I'm not quite sure any apologies are due - I mean, in an ideal world, your new £50m centre mid wouldn't look like a competition winner for most of his first 18 months at the club.
I am glad he's starting to look a tidy little player, though. After having so many positions we thought were filled only to realise we badly needed an upgrade there, it's refreshing to have the opposite case for a change.
I am glad he's starting to look a tidy little player, though. After having so many positions we thought were filled only to realise we badly needed an upgrade there, it's refreshing to have the opposite case for a change.
When we lose the ball and the team is not in balance he often tries to win the ball in a "all or nothing" tackle when it would be better to stop/slow down the counter-attacks by containing the player with the ball and force a sideways pass.
What I want from a player in a holding or deep sitting midfield position is consistency, ability to make the smart decisions tactically and play the simple pass. If we had better players around, then Fred might be allowed or focused on playing this game, but we can't really know.
I would not say that it is an incredibly harsh assessment. I want Fred to be more like Fernandinho(Might happen if we get a coach that can teach a team how to pass effectively and Fred knowing where to pass might improve some elements of his game).
It is not like I don't rate him, only that I would rather have players that are better on the ball than off it.
Another example of reactionary nonsense in this thread, can we all calm down a bit please, Fred has been absolutely abysmal since we've got him, it's only for a few games now he's started to look like an actual midfielder, OP says themselves he's been good for roughly 10 games? Suddenly everyone is ready to call him a quality midfielder. Same shit happened when Lingard scored a couple of goals that 1 month he looked like an actual footballer before he went back to his normal levels and everyone was calling him Messi Lingod.
Credit to Fred for actually standing up and being one of the few players to be counted for a few weeks of course, but lets see him actually do it on a consistent basis now before throwing out apologies and plaudits
Credit to Fred for actually standing up and being one of the few players to be counted for a few weeks of course, but lets see him actually do it on a consistent basis now before throwing out apologies and plaudits
I wondered what was wrong with him that he never played. Wanted him sold. Glad no one listened. Now we’re seeing what he’s capable of. Plus his workrate must be among the highest in the squad. Fair play to Fred.
He wouldn't get a game for anyone above us in the league.
I'm amazed we've not made him an out and out defensive midfielder. Shield the back 4, distribute the ball to full backs and other midfielders. Nothing more nothing less.
He drives into the final third and you know he's almost definitely making nothing of it. He would be so excellent in a more disciplined role. In the role Jose had McTominay in.
He drives into the final third and you know he's almost definitely making nothing of it. He would be so excellent in a more disciplined role. In the role Jose had McTominay in.
You’re right. It’s much better to focus on the negative and withhold praise. Thanks for reminding me, I was almost enjoying myself here.
I'm going to gloat as i've thought since day one he was a good player in a bad system. I am surprised he has adapted to playing in a broken system though.
Me as well. He is a lot better than expected. He is the one player in that midfield who shouldn't be worried about his place. Sorry Fred.
Different situations. Lingard is playing at his boyhood club, was given the benefit of the doubt for poor performances and is local. Fred has had to overcome a language barrier (something that he has reportedly struggled with), barely played under the manager that signed him and had won his place through hard work and good performances.
Add to that he is quite clearly a far more talented player than Lingard. I’d be happy to stick my neck out and say that what we are seeing from Fred right now is his normal level of performance. He has also proved it at another club, which is something Lingard obviously hasn’t done.
I have never written him off. Im not quite sure if he is a future starter for this team.
And there are players at the teams above us who wouldn’t start for us either. Irrelevant point.
He is a big game player, but he still falls short. Needs to add goals to his game.
Correct me if i am wrong but didn't most posters say he needed a run of 10 games? Ole gave him this because of injuriea and he came good. If anything, moat posters have been right about him. I believe the Fred we have will be much better when/if we get some decent players around him. The lad never stops running.
Who said anything about focusing on the negative? All I said was it was better to still hold back on the praise until he's shown more, part of the reason we are where we are as a club is the clubs and the fans massive tendency to jump on things far too early, far too reactionary, a couple of goals and suddenly a player is world class, a few good games and suddenly a players' seasons of mediocrity are thrown out the window like they never happened, a few early wins and a lucky win vs PSG and we hire a massively under qualified manager that could very well have repercussions for many years to come.
I said props to Fred for playing as well as he has in this broken team recently, but lets not forget he was one of the worst players on the field before that, lets see him do it more consistently and for a good period of time before we start handing out apologies.
I don't see how this is negative.
He's not amazing, he's just not as shit as a lot thought. Needs to add goals and assists to his game. He's had ample opportunity to do so.
Currently he's looking a lot better than Matic, Perriera and maybe equal to McTom...and that says it all really.
Saying that, I do really like him
Currently he's looking a lot better than Matic, Perriera and maybe equal to McTom...and that says it all really.
Saying that, I do really like him
"Maybe equal to McTom", wow, that's some serious overrating of McTom right there.
I hope he doesn’t get married a third time this summer and miss another pre-season
That said i was never in doubt of his ability
That said i was never in doubt of his ability
Actually Whoscored has them at very similar levels.
Fred has a much superior pass percentage (i'd argue that McTom forces forward passes more often) and better key passes
McTom has more goals, assists, ariel duels, MotM perofrmances, tackles, dispossession percentage (plus overall rating is higher)
So yes, they've performed at similar levels.
Glad to say I never wrote him off. There were times I wanted to because I thought I was missing something in his game based on 90% of the cafe underrating him.
I’ve always loved that he is energetic and could weight a pass. Those are always good signs of a midfielder. My only issue with him was his lack of balance and inconsistent touch. It needs improvement still. He is an energetic technical player which we need more of at the club.
I’ve always loved that he is energetic and could weight a pass. Those are always good signs of a midfielder. My only issue with him was his lack of balance and inconsistent touch. It needs improvement still. He is an energetic technical player which we need more of at the club.
I think he’s more of a classic no. 8. His distribution is still shaky and not consistent enough. He’s not exactly Scholes with long passing (though he had a nice one to James).
I was wrong about him. I don’t know what he was going through that first season, but he was truly awful. Here’s hoping that he will continue this confident run of form and become a great player for us.
Fred owes us an apology for taking so long to put in good performances.
He's been our second best player since November. Only Rashford has played better. Looking forward to seeing how he plays when we actually have a midfield.
He's the best of a bad bunch. I think he's earned the right to be a regular in this team but if we want to start competing then I fee; he's a squad player.
He's run himself into the ground the last few weeks, so as a simple-minded fan that appreciates effort (eg Tevez > Berba), I have been very pleased recently.
He isn't great or world-class or anything, but I am happy to see him improving. He was one of the few who can hold his head high after yesterday.
Although he got very lucky in not tracking the runner on their second Var-cancelled goal. He also got megged a few times, which hurts.
He isn't great or world-class or anything, but I am happy to see him improving. He was one of the few who can hold his head high after yesterday.
Although he got very lucky in not tracking the runner on their second Var-cancelled goal. He also got megged a few times, which hurts.
To be fair to the other players, the only reason Fred gets MOTM as often as he does is because the large majority of all other players have been rubbish. You will find that most MOTM recipients are players who score or create goals when we win. When we lose or draw, it's a player that put in the best shift.
The transformation Fred has undergone this season is incredible and I for one never saw it coming.
Long may he continue to improve.
Long may he continue to improve.
Always like the little chap, he's coming on well.
He's doing well at present, but still not a £50 million player for me... yet.
Started to look more like Carrick, which is good.
Never said a bad thing about him, so no. Also the treatment he got from being stuck on the bench as Jose probably wanted to prove some point about not being his primary target made me a bit sorry for him. He is good, not great or fantastic, but he reacted very well to all things that went in this strange buying. Hope he keeps improving, there is a good player in him. At least as a squad option.
Happy for him.
Happy for him.
On current form he’s every bit a £50 million player, in this market.
That performance yesterday was ballsy, better than I expected when we first signed him.
Market is fecked, £50 mill will barely get you anything half way decent these days.
I suppose you have a point, especially when Newcastle are quoting us £50 million for Sean fecking Longstaff
At the time we did overpay, but he's growing into the role, which is refreshing to see.
I remember reading an article that was building him up just after we signed him. The piece kept stressing that he played this weird type of single man midfield role that meant that if he didn't get things perfect every time the side fell to pieces. When he first started playing for us and he was making sloppy passes I was completely shocked because of any flaws that was the last that I would have expected. His entire "flop" of a first season was literally 100% down to match sharpness.
He is a good player and I think he is the sort that could continually up his game as his team mates improved. For instance if he was put into City's midfield he would be overlooked for a couple of months then start getting loads of plaudits.
He is a good player and I think he is the sort that could continually up his game as his team mates improved. For instance if he was put into City's midfield he would be overlooked for a couple of months then start getting loads of plaudits.
I've always thought he had something, even when he was displaying the odd mistakes here and there. We knew that he was dynamic and had the ability to break up play, but I've really been impressed with ability to run a game of late.
He's shown he can play as both, the deepest midfielder (when he plays next to McTominay or Pogba) and the box to box role (next to Matic) which he did so well at Shakhtar, where he was described as the midfield 'dictator' by his coach, and a role he enjoys playing. At Shakhtar, he said ‘Fonseca allows me to play both offensively and defensively, and my main task is to change the direction of attacking moves'.
For quite a while now, he has shown that he has the ability to 'change the direction of attacking moves', displaying great composure when being pressed and breaking the lines with his passing. What we need to compliment, not only him, but our other midfielders, is a deep-lying playmaker and attacking midfielder and our midfield be set in my opinion.
He's shown he can play as both, the deepest midfielder (when he plays next to McTominay or Pogba) and the box to box role (next to Matic) which he did so well at Shakhtar, where he was described as the midfield 'dictator' by his coach, and a role he enjoys playing. At Shakhtar, he said ‘Fonseca allows me to play both offensively and defensively, and my main task is to change the direction of attacking moves'.
For quite a while now, he has shown that he has the ability to 'change the direction of attacking moves', displaying great composure when being pressed and breaking the lines with his passing. What we need to compliment, not only him, but our other midfielders, is a deep-lying playmaker and attacking midfielder and our midfield be set in my opinion.
I think I called him the worst signing in premier league history
Bang average and don’t be fooled by a few decent games. He looks ok at the moment due to being surrounded by far lesser quality.
When/If he starts to dictate big games consistently (which I doubt) then you can look at him differently.
At the moment still a poor mans Fernandinho
When/If he starts to dictate big games consistently (which I doubt) then you can look at him differently.
At the moment still a poor mans Fernandinho