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2021-22 Performances


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NecssryEvil

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Wasn't the U23 and first team under different COVID bubbles last season? If it is going to be the same this year I would be tempted to loan him out if you could find a good fit. If that isn't the case this year then I would keep him around the first team and let him play a few U23 games where he can get solid minutes to keep fit.
 

Gentleman Jim

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Saw a bit of him last season.
Opponents seemed to target him for rough treatment and sometimes he was kicked out of the game.
He seems to have all the ability you need but will he stand up to the kicking that grown men will be looking to give him?
 

roonster09

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Saw a bit of him last season.
Opponents seemed to target him for rough treatment and sometimes he was kicked out of the game.
He seems to have all the ability you need but will he stand up to the kicking that grown men will be looking to give him?
That shouldn't be a problem. Refs at U23 level at shit and they let players kick him all game and when he retaliates he gets warning/yellow cards. At top level, refs book players for all those fouls.
 

NecssryEvil

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That shouldn't be a problem. Refs at U23 level at shit and they let players kick him all game and when he retaliates he gets warning/yellow cards. At top level, refs book players for all those fouls.
Some of the fouls on him I have seen are downright nasty. Not just tough tackles but blatant "I am sick of you making me look bad" so I am going to take you out tackles.

Are the refs just bad or are they told to keep the cards in their pocket unless blood is drawn?
 

roonster09

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Some of the fouls on him I have seen are downright nasty. Not just tough tackles but blatant "I am sick of you making me look bad" so I am going to take you out tackles.

Are the refs just bad or are they told to keep the cards in their pocket unless blood is drawn?
Yeah, off the ball players pulling his hair, kicking him out of the pitch and most of the mare blatant red card offenses.
 

Gentleman Jim

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That shouldn't be a problem. Refs at U23 level at shit and they let players kick him all game and when he retaliates he gets warning/yellow cards. At top level, refs book players for all those fouls.
Maybe after 2 or 3 but rarely in 1st half.
 

Gurtej

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Only Giggs and Rashford were in the first XI at Hannibals age though.

Becks and Scholes were 20.

Easy to forget how young these guys are because of the exposure they've already had.
18 is good enough… and it’s not like we have a lot of options in the position he plays in unlike the time of other two….

Fabregas was younger…. Rashford was younger… Pedri …. Benzema…etc…. I am not even including Messi, Ronaldo or Mbapee…

I think I would rather give him chances here… because i haven’t seen a UTD players in years who has gone out on loan and had a successful career in PL (I mean top 4)
 

roonster09

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18 is good enough… and it’s not like we have a lot of options in the position he plays in unlike the time of other two….

Fabregas was younger…. Rashford was younger… Pedri …. Benzema…etc…. I am not even including Messi, Ronaldo or Mbapee…

I think I would rather give him chances here… because i haven’t seen a UTD players in years who has gone out on loan and had a successful career in PL (I mean top 4)
Evans and Welbeck both had successful loan spells before playing regularly for ManUtd. Same with Cleverley too, all 3 had impressive loan spells and then had chance to play regularly for ManUtd.

There is no rule that fits for all players, it all depends on the squad we have, depth and also position.

Yeah there are some great players who were part of first team when they were 18, likewise there are great players who didn't play regularly when they were 18.
 

Marwood

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18 is good enough… and it’s not like we have a lot of options in the position he plays in unlike the time of other two….

Fabregas was younger…. Rashford was younger… Pedri …. Benzema…etc…. I am not even including Messi, Ronaldo or Mbapee…

I think I would rather give him chances here… because i haven’t seen a UTD players in years who has gone out on loan and had a successful career in PL (I mean top 4)
It might be but you have to admit getting lots of game time at a club the size of United, at 18, is rare.

You're taking Rashford, Rooney, Ronaldo, Giggs and then I think Whiteside. That's 5 over about the last 30 years. I've probably missed one or two.

On top of that they all had a real physical presence, be it strength or pace, that Hannibal doesn't yet have.

I'm not saying he's deffo not ready, just that it's such a rare occurrence.
 

Gurtej

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It might be but you have to admit getting lots of game time at a club the size of United, at 18, is rare.

You're taking Rashford, Rooney, Ronaldo, Giggs and then I think Whiteside. That's 5 over about the last 30 years. I've probably missed one or two.

On top of that they all had a real physical presence, be it strength or pace, that Hannibal doesn't yet have.

I'm not saying he's deffo not ready, just that it's such a rare occurrence.
Give me name of 5 players in last 10-15 years who we sent out on loan and ended up having a successful career for top 6 ?
I can’t think of anyone unless you think Welbeck, Cleverly etc are in bucket (hopefully not)…
Even Pogba went to Juventus so not in that category ….

Rashford, Greenwood,McT…. All stayed and played here …..

What I am saying is it if the player isn’t ready around 18 to get some decent time in United itself….chances of them having a successful career at this club is pretty slim….
 

roonster09

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Give me name of 5 players in last 10-15 years who we sent out on loan and ended up having a successful career for top 6 ?
I can’t think of anyone unless you think Welbeck, Cleverly etc are in bucket (hopefully not)…
Even Pogba went to Juventus so not in that category ….

Rashford, Greenwood,McT…. All stayed and played here …..

What I am saying is it if the player isn’t ready around 18 to get some decent time in United itself….chances of them having a successful career at this club is pretty slim….
This criteria applies only for ManUtd for other top 6 clubs too?
 

andersj

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What I am saying is it if the player isn’t ready around 18 to get some decent time in United itself….chances of them having a successful career at this club is pretty slim….
Dont agree at all. Neither Scholes, Neville or Beckham were ready to get «decent time» in United at 18. Neither was Pique or Evans. Or Pogba for that matter. McTominay deseveres a mention too.

In fact, very few talents at top clubs are. Look at Mount or James at Chelsea.

I agree that few talents make it at a top club if they are not an «early bloomer», but I think that has much more to do with how we handle these players. Players develop differently. Robertson at 20 were barely good enough for Hull! Or what about Maguire? Van Dijk?
 

Marwood

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Give me name of 5 players in last 10-15 years who we sent out on loan and ended up having a successful career for top 6 ?
I can’t think of anyone unless you think Welbeck, Cleverly etc are in bucket (hopefully not)…
Even Pogba went to Juventus so not in that category ….

Rashford, Greenwood,McT…. All stayed and played here …..

What I am saying is it if the player isn’t ready around 18 to get some decent time in United itself….chances of them having a successful career at this club is pretty slim….
I've just given you some full on legends who weren't playing for our first team at 18.

When you say "18 is good enough" it's actually nearly always the opposite. Very few across the entire clubs history get decent game time at 18.
 

roonster09

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Dont agree at all. Neither Scholes, Neville or Beckham were ready to get «decent time» in United at 18. Neither was Pique or Evans. Or Pogba for that matter. McTominay deseveres a mention too.

In fact, very few talents at top clubs are. Look at Mount or James at Chelsea.

I agree that few talents make it at a top club if they are not an «early bloomer», but I think that has much more to do with how we handle these players. Players develop differently. Robertson at 20 were barely good enough for Hull! Or what about Maguire? Van Dijk?
Exactly. We loaned out players like Pique, Rossi who had very successful careers, Rossi's was cut short because of his injuries, otherwise he would have played for Barca. Evans was part of our team that won multiple trophies, same with players like Welbeck, Cleverley, Lingard. If we go by tier system then Welbeck, Cleverley and Lingard will be in lower tier compared to Pique, Rossi, Evans.

Also we have players like Keane who is playing at good level and was signed for big money by Everton, Drinkwater had successful career at Leicester winning PL, same with Danny Simpson at Leicester.
 

Bestietom

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I think he is ready. I would rather he stayed here and mix with first team even some cameo appearances.
 

Kramer

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It seems he got 30 mins in our ‘behind the doors’ game against Burnley.

I reckon that’s excellent news - means he shd be part of Ole’s plans for this year. Hope he gets Greenwood kind of mins when he was first brought into the senior squad by Ole.
 

Ekeke

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Give me name of 5 players in last 10-15 years who we sent out on loan and ended up having a successful career for top 6 ?
I can’t think of anyone unless you think Welbeck, Cleverly etc are in bucket (hopefully not)…
Even Pogba went to Juventus so not in that category ….

Rashford, Greenwood,McT…. All stayed and played here …..

What I am saying is it if the player isn’t ready around 18 to get some decent time in United itself….chances of them having a successful career at this club is pretty slim….
Bruno Fernandes was out on loan from Udinese to Sampdoria with a fee to buy at the age of 20-21

Players develop at different rates and times, our best player is someone Udinese didnt want in his early 20s
 

snk123

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Bruno Fernandes was out on loan from Udinese to Sampdoria with a fee to buy at the age of 20-21

Players develop at different rates and times, our best player is someone Udinese didnt want in his early 20s
/Argument
 

MrBest

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If he can go on loan to championship for a season and have 30 starts, it would be better than coming off the bench 10 times the entire season. Hannibal needs minutes, his talent, physicality and ability is there, just needs time. He already has had a nasty injury so lost some time in his development, minutes would put him ready for next season.
 

amolbhatia50k

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Bruno Fernandes was out on loan from Udinese to Sampdoria with a fee to buy at the age of 20-21

Players develop at different rates and times, our best player is someone Udinese didnt want in his early 20s
Exactly. Salah wasn't good enough for Chelsea at a young age. People think this is FIFA/PES and that if you aren't a 75 at 20 you won't be a top player.
 

golden_blunder

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Most fans don’t know anything about development of young players. They see or hear some hype about a youth player and they want a new shiny toy in the first team. That’s not how it works. Most players coming through the ranks will be lucky to play a few games at United first team level, most will go on to have solid careers elsewhere.
 

DWelbz19

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Most fans don’t know anything about development of young players. They see or hear some hype about a youth player and they want a new shiny toy in the first team. That’s not how it works. Most players coming through the ranks will be lucky to play a few games at United first team level, most will go on to have solid careers elsewhere.
One of the guys on here who watch the youth players quite frequently (can't remember his name) often makes the very good point that Man Utd very rarely get it wrong with a youth player. Of any who had massive potential but left without getting major chances in the first team, or we were all worried they'd go on to be mega stars -- it's not really happened at all. Pogba is the very rare exception.

As you say - most will go on to be solid level in the Champ, or if they're even better than that; the PL or a top 5 European league. That's some fecking going from both the player and the academy in such a case.
 

golden_blunder

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One of the guys on here who watch the youth players quite frequently (can't remember his name) often makes the very good point that Man Utd very rarely get it wrong with a youth player. Of any who had massive potential but left without getting major chances in the first team, or we were all worried they'd go on to be mega stars -- it's not really happened at all. Pogba is the very rare exception.

As you say - most will go on to be solid level in the Champ, or if they're even better than that; the PL or a top 5 European league. That's some fecking going from both the player and the academy in such a case.
Absolutely, our academy keeps producing. Are we the top club for producing top league players?
 

Adam-Utd

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Absolutely, our academy keeps producing. Are we the top club for producing top league players?
Of recent years I think it's Chelsea unfortunately, but we've certainly started to pick up again.

We let the academy slip a bit once Fergie left.
 

golden_blunder

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Of recent years I think it's Chelsea unfortunately, but we've certainly started to pick up again.

We let the academy slip a bit once Fergie left.
Yeah in fairness, Chelsea have a great conveyor belt of talent too.
I’m glad that Ole and the team have put the focus back on the academy again
 

Adnan

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Of recent years I think it's Chelsea unfortunately, but we've certainly started to pick up again.

We let the academy slip a bit once Fergie left.
We let it slip during Fergie's tenure.

Chelsea of course have a abundance of talent at youth level since Abramovich took over. But that's due to the structural changes and vast amounts of money that was poured into Chelsea from their owner which meant they were stacking up on the best youth players in the world.

We've only recently caught up in the last 3 or 4 years and have started to spend significant sums on youth players. Hannibal Mejbri for example cost us a pretty penny at 16, and the expectations on him are higher than the likes of Andreas Pereira who cost peanuts in comparison from PSV at a similar age.
 

golden_blunder

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We let it slip during Fergie's tenure.

Chelsea of course have a abundance of talent at youth level since Abramovich took over. But that's due to the structural changes and vast amounts of money that was poured into Chelsea from their owner which meant they were stacking up on the best youth players in the world.

We've only recently caught up in the last 3 or 4 years and have started to spend significant sums on youth players. Hannibal Mejbri for example cost us a pretty penny at 16, and the expectations on him are higher than the likes of Andreas Pereira who cost peanuts in comparison from PSV at a similar age.
And still no guarantees

I remember us signing Graeme Tomlinson for 500k which back then was a significant amount of money, especially for a youth player. The money might get you in the door at OT but it’a up to the player to show they have what it takes
 

Adnan

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And still no guarantees

I remember us signing Graeme Tomlinson for 500k which back then was a significant amount of money, especially for a youth player. The money might get you in the door at OT but it’a up to the player to show they have what it takes
There's no guarantees with any player or manager in football. I remember us signing world class players at first team level and they failed pretty badly.
 

AltiUn

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I don't know if he's ready for the first team but he's almost certainly too good for the U23 league, I'm worried he'll sustain a very serious injury if we opt to keep him down there for another year.
 

golden_blunder

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There's no guarantees with any player or manager in football. I remember us signing world class players at first team level and they failed pretty badly.
True but I was specifically talking about youth level. A lot of money has gone into Hannibal but there’s a 50/50 chance (if even that high) that he will make it here
 

Adam-Utd

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True but I was specifically talking about youth level. A lot of money has gone into Hannibal but there’s a 50/50 chance (if even that high) that he will make it here
As you say though, with every player there's always that gamble, potential is something that can be recognised but not always forfilled.

I like to think of Ravel Morrison and Mctominay in this situation. If you watched them both at Academy level there would only ever be 1 winner, but there's more to becoming a good prefessional than actually being good at football.
 

Adnan

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True but I was specifically talking about youth level. A lot of money has gone into Hannibal but there’s a 50/50 chance (if even that high) that he will make it here
Are you making that observation after watching Mejbri regularly? or are you using the law of averages when it comes to projecting young players in general?

But from my own observation of watching the player on a regular basis, he has a good chance of making it into the first team. I could of course be wrong, but Mejbri for me has thus far lived upto my expections.
 

golden_blunder

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Are you making that observation after watching Mejbri regularly? or are you using the law of averages when it comes to projecting young players in general?

But from my own observation of watching the player on a regular basis, he has a good chance of making it into the first team. I could of course be wrong, but Mejbri for me has thus far lived upto my expections.
Both. Like you say he’s been brilliant at times at that level. But I temper i thinking how many have equally been brilliant at that level over the years and haven’t made the grade at United. Off course some go on to make very good careers elsewhere
 

golden_blunder

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As you say though, with every player there's always that gamble, potential is something that can be recognised but not always forfilled.

I like to think of Ravel Morrison and Mctominay in this situation. If you watched them both at Academy level there would only ever be 1 winner, but there's more to becoming a good prefessional than actually being good at football.
I take your point, totally agree.
Re McTominay, I wonder if he would have made it here if not for the fact that he sprouted up quite quickly! Fortunately for him!
 

Adnan

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Both. Like you say he’s been brilliant at times at that level. But I temper i thinking how many have equally been brilliant at that level over the years and haven’t made the grade at United. Off course some go on to make very good careers elsewhere
I think that's a reasonable stance to take on any young player trying to make the step up, which is a big step up generally.
 

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I don't know if he's ready for the first team but he's almost certainly too good for the U23 league, I'm worried he'll sustain a very serious injury if we opt to keep him down there for another year.
I think the player is going to lose motivation if he’s forced into another season of u23s. You could see the end of last season he was ticked off with it. He should be playing seniors somewhere. I think they will keep him around for early rounds of the cups and sub minutes and then out after Xmas.
 

Gandalf

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It is beginning to look like Ole plans to keep him around the first team and give him some games which I think is the right way to go, he has the versatility to cover a number of positions so could get a fair few minutes from the bench and now Andreas has gone it would only take one or two injuries to pretty much put him as first option off the bench for a midfield role.