to completely dismiss any argument is a trifle arrogantagree. those who post otherwise just denonstrate their ignorance. Total muppets
to completely dismiss any argument is a trifle arrogantagree. those who post otherwise just denonstrate their ignorance. Total muppets
Well then, why the feck have we paid £18 million for him ?!!I think the expectations are too high for hargreaves. He isn't in the same class as DMs or holding midfielders like Cambiasso or De Rossi, he isn't even as good as Gattuso (watch the Bayern-Milan quarterfinal in Germany last season). He isn't shit either though, that's for sure.
If United were as good as Bayern were with Hargreaves, we wouldn't by our standards have been very good.Bayerns werent that poor and i see that you have ignored my point about him being voted best player of the tournament for England.
Excellent logic. Scholes is actually aging in reverse and nobody else is improving.It's pretty simple really - Carrick-Scholes = Premier League champions. For one reason and another, that pairing has been disrupted this season and it has cost us a little bit.
come on it was not the same tactical approach at all , you're just being silly now ... we were all about flooding arsenals third , a rampage from the whistle; tonight was about getting a draw or maybe nicking a win in a controlled disciplined manneryes, I thought exactly the same thing when we played the same formation vs Arsenal at the weekend. way too defensive
no its not. Not in this case. C'mon have abit of respect for the guy. He has played a side as successful as United for the passed few years.to completely dismiss any argument is a trifle arrogant
But we were successful in Carrick's first season. You make out as though we have been awful since he joined us.
The Real president felt Guti had a great passing range and offered defence as much protection as Makelele but in a more economical manner. We all know how that worked out.
Maybe those expectations aren't realistic for a player who is new to the club and has only started around 13 games. Keep in mind that he was injured for most of last season, and so he probably needs time to get back to his best.fair point, but he's still expected to do more than just OK in Europe, if he's considered to be in the same class as gattuso, etc, especially since that's what he was mainly bought for and all the hargo-fans banging on about his CL experience and what not
I'm not Fergie, but if you expect us to sign the likes of De Rossi for 20 million instead, you're deluded.Well then, why the feck have we paid £18 million for him ?!!
There was nothing wrong with the flow of the team tonight. We just didn't take our chances!I was thinking about Hargreaves' performance on my way home from the pub. Individually, his performance was okay. He was energetic, looked to stifle Lyon and generally won his confrontations. But he is not a player that fits in United's system. He takes too long to release possession and too often he plays a backwards pass. The flow of the team is so much better with Carrick in the side as the ball moves through midfield much faster.
It's bizarre yet our team will still insist on twatting 60 yard balls up to him. There comes a time when some individuals need to use their brain a bit and realise that no matter how strong he is, he is not a tall lad.I thought Hargreaves did alright tonight. The problem, or rather, the reason we didn't pass it as well as usual, was the one man up front thing.
It doesn't work. We could get the same effect simply by hitting Wayne Rooney over the head with a tray of drinks for ninety minutes.
Why would SAF spend 28 mil on Veron.It happens.and he's not. Why would Fergie spend £17M on a rubbish footballer?
Different personel for us.yes, I thought exactly the same thing when we played the same formation vs Arsenal at the weekend. way too defensive
I'd rather we had bought a player that was worth the money, or at least close to being worth the money, and in a position that was needed!I'm not Fergie, but if you expect us to sign the likes of De Rossi for 20 million instead, you're deluded.
yes that was obviously Carricks faultThen we can go back to Carrick being made to look foolish by the likes of Kaka.
If football was merely about opnions poeple woudlnt accept thing like Best were all time greats. Some thing are not just opinion down to opinion. Anyone with eyes can't claim we played poorly or hada poor player on picth tonight. unless theri are natural liars!Football. It's all about opinions. There's not need to start calling people "fools"..
Really?Also, you look at the debate too simplistically. No one is saying Hargreaves cannot pass the ball.
............Freaky Jim said:normal Hargreaves
he needs about thousand touches to control the ball and his passing...let's just not talk about it.
That concesus is only amongst the Hagreaves hating brigade. His job is to pass to more attack minded players or player in better attacking positosn than him. A thing He did this all night with accuracy, at one time feeding Brown a wonderful cross field long abll that Brown crossed into the 18 that provided a good chance for us that Coupet saved. .He lost the Losing the ball once tonight. Yet people are coming on here to claim he was shit or did nothing. Worse still the want him to pass a ball like Carrick. A freaking play maker. How cleverThe general consensus is that he takes to long to make the pass and he is not incisive enough. Carrick is better at it.
It's not like Veron was rubbish. Some players just fail to click.Why would SAF spend 28 mil on Veron.It happens.
yes, and that is why you are not manager at MUFC and SAF is!!I'd rather we had bought a player that was worth the money, or at least close to being worth the money, and in a position that was needed!
Veron was one the best midfielders around, in fairness.Why would SAF spend 28 mil on Veron.It happens.
Yes, the system's flawedI thought Hargreaves did alright tonight. The problem, or rather, the reason we didn't pass it as well as usual, was the one man up front thing.
It doesn't work. We could get the same effect simply by hitting Wayne Rooney over the head with a tray of drinks for ninety minutes.
unfortunately, that's the type of player he is, a very injury-prone one, I agree with the point about him needing time to adjust to the Permier League, but he's played long enough with Bayern to know enough about the CL, and that's why he was bought for, so he's got the experience in the CL for that to be a non-issue.Maybe those expectations aren't realistic for a player who is new to the club and has only started around 13 games. Keep in mind that he was injured for most of last season, and so he probably needs time to get back to his best.
It was also Vidic and Evra's first full season. Carrick was the worst player in our regular starting XI last season. If you have a doubt, look at the Premiership's team of the year.But we were successful in Carrick's first season. You make out as though we have been awful since he joined us.
Yep, because it's not cost us at all having only 2 strikers and having to rotate the team and change a winning formula, just to accommodate £18 million Owen Hargreaves.yes, and that is why you are not manager at MUFC and SAF is!!
Good point, Plech. I lost count of the number of times the ball would be hoofed forwards towards Rooney, only for Boumsong or Squillaci to head it away. He's simply not cut out for the role when the team as a whole is playing conservatively; against Arsenal he was getting better service and he was getting a lot more support from Anderson, Nani, Fletcher, etc.I thought Hargreaves did alright tonight. The problem, or rather, the reason we didn't pass it as well as usual, was the one man up front thing.
It doesn't work. We could get the same effect simply by hitting Wayne Rooney over the head with a tray of drinks for ninety minutes.
...Excellent logic. Scholes is actually aging in reverse and nobody else is improving.
Arsenal despite their woeful performance on Sat surely haven't improved.
The moment you become complacent is the moment you fall behind.
I'm not trying to say that. My point is, we play our best football with players of a certain ilk or style.
We should always be looking to upgrade. Is Hargreaves an upgrade? In certain aspects he absolutely is. Part of the keys of success if flexibility.
Hargreaves has done nothing thus far that suggests to me he is an upgrade. What has he improved?
Carrick is a great player when he can sit back and pick less gifted teams apart. He has been SHOCKING when played as part of a two man midfield against teams with individual players that have the skills to skin him.
Carrick has had good performances against Chelsea, Arsenal and Roma in the past year.
Hargreaves may be unnecessary against weaker teams but he wasn't brought here to play in the games we won last year. He was brought here to help us win the games we lost last year.
The problem is that we will lack some creativity when he plays against weaker teams because he does indeed need to stretch his legs once in awhile. It would be extremely short sighted for anyone to slate him if he came on for the first time in a month for a tough CL fixture and wasn't up to snuff. Thats why he has to get regular first team action, if he doesn't then there should be absolutely no expectation placed on him to perform in Europe.
Then we can go back to Carrick being made to look foolish by the likes of Kaka.
So short sighted to blame Carrick for Kaka's performance last season. You seem to forget our decimated backfour. You seem to forget Judas and Evra taking each other out. You seem to forget that the whole team was outplayed in the San Siro. Not just Carrick.
We can look look at this from a different perspective, there's another reason we hit long balls. Even if the defender clears it away I've noticed in some of our games(especially at home) we win many of the 2nd balls and establish ourselves close to their box and can then start to pass it around and put pressure on the opponents.It's bizarre yet our team will still insist on twatting 60 yard balls up to him. There comes a time when some individuals need to use their brain a bit and realise that no matter how strong he is, he is not a tall lad.
Surely it's not to hard to realise that Rooney plays his best football when the ball's on the deck?
he was also accused of releasing makelele because he didn't like him, either way it's irrelevant they are different people , we didn't need someone to 'just tackle' to win the championship last year. it's unfair to hang Carrick for the Milan performances and not to laud him for the Roma ones.
The Real president felt Guti had a great passing range and offered defence as much protection as Makelele but in a more economical manner. We all know how that worked out.
Rooney had one chance created by his own work, other then that how mnay time did the Lyon keeper have to make big saves?There was nothing wrong with the flow of the team tonight. We just didn't take our chances!
maybe carrick is just a bit subtle for you ? what if he had better hair ?It was also Vidic and Evra's first full season. Carrick was the worst player in our regular starting XI last season. If you have a doubt, look at the Premiership's team of the year.
Pretty much yes. Because people like me have given people like you solid evidence time and again that disproves your baseless theories about Hagreaves. Yet your Hargreaves bashing never seizes! You even watch a game like tonight's, with your own eyes, in which we play very well, are very unlucky to get only a draw and you still come up with Hargreaves is shit comments. When that happens I read between the lines and know you think people liek me are talking bullshit and are fools. Unlike you however I don't hide such thoughts like you clearly do..It's called opinions Chief.
I think your opinion on Hargreaves is BS - do I insult you?
Why?I'm not Fergie, but if you expect us to sign the likes of De Rossi for 20 million instead, you're deluded.
That'd be Fergie, he was the one who took him off in favour of someone who could pass a ball. And if you say that's because we were one down well then Owen didn't exactly do 'what he's there for'.Hargreaves did well today. Anyone who thinks otherwise is a fool.
Having CL match experience is irrelevant when you haven't had time to settle into the team. I don't think Hargreaves has played too many games with the same players in midfield or when we've played the same shape. These could factor into how well he performs.unfortunately, that's the type of player he is, a very injury-prone one, I agree with the point about him needing time to adjust to the Permier League, but he's played long enough with Bayern to know enough about the CL, and that's why he was bought for, so he's got the experience in the CL for that to be a non-issue.
It's his first start, IIRC.btw, was this hargreave's first game for us in the CL this season?
If Hargreaves is held accountable for shit he isn't responsible for then Carrick should be as well.yes that was obviously Carricks fault
Head. Banging. Brick wall.If football was merely about opnions poeple woudlnt accept thing like Best were all time greats. Some thing are not just opinion down to opinion. Anyone with eyes can't claim we played poorly or hada poor player on picth tonight. unless theri are natural liars!
Really?
You must have missed this then:
............
That concesus is only amongst the Hagreaves hating brigade. His job is to pass to more attack minded players or player in better attacking positosn than him. A thing He did this all night with accuracy, at one time feeding Brown a wonderful cross field long abll that Brown crossed into the 18 that provided a good chance for us that Coupet saved. .He lost the Losing the ball once tonight. Yet people are coming on here to claim he was shit or did nothing. Worse still the want him to pass a ball like Carrick. A freaking play maker. How clever
ssshh let the self deception continue. A fantastic result away from home against the champions of france. all is well.Rooney had one chance created by his own work, other then that how mnay time did the Lyon keeper have to make big saves?