Bravo, saved me writing out the exact same thing
Harry Amass | 2026/27 Performances
- Thread starter MyOnlySolskjaer
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I agree. The effect is that Amass probably is sixth choice, not fifth.
I think if Carrick trusted Amass to the degree that he’d start him at LB in an important game ahead of whoever’s available for the spot of Maz, Dalot, Licha, Dorgu and Heaven (given Shaw was injured/needed to be rested), I don’t think we’d spend money now on a nee LB.
If we don’t buy a new LB to compete with Shaw, I’d be shocked if we still sell Amass for £6m. I don’t expect to be shocked.
If we do buy a new LB who is young and able to challenge Shaw, it’s because Amass isn’t ready, and it will make the way to the first team longer for Amass. If he’s still down for the challenge, and wants to buckle down and write a new contract and go on loan to later fight to replace Shaw - I’d hope we keep him! If he doesn’t, there probably isn’t much to do.
A few of your facts are not actually facts though. For instance, Dorgu has played left back for us according to Transfermarkt (only four times) but still, it's also where he played most of his football at Lecce. I think he'll play there in certain games where we expect the opposition to sit back.
Then saying players cannot cover multiple positions seems like a good way to end up with a really bloated squad. I mean, both Mbeumo and Cunha are probably seen as backup strikers by the club even though they're first choice in other positions. It works because you then bring in Amad or Dorgu, respectively.
Similarly, Dalot and Mazraoui can fill in at left back if you have someone else playing right back. I think a lot of managers would probably start Yoro on the right and Dalot or Mazraoui on the left before starting Amass at this point in time. I'm not saying it's the right thing to do or anything, but all of those players are more ready to play first team games than Amass is, even if it's out of position, and even if it's mainly down to them being physically and mentally up to it.
Have you even seen him play? Sounds like you must be a top-level scout to boldly determine that a 19 year old is League 1/Championship level player at best
Indeed that was my assesment based on the matches I watched Amass play for the first team, sorry I'm being honest and not jumping on the typical bandwagon of overhyping our youth players.
I would love nothing more than him to come through and be a first team player.
I’m like you, just a fan who’s seen him just a handful of times often in friendly games. I can see he looks like a decent prospect, but I don’t think he is anywhere near starting Premier league quality right now, and cover for Luke Shaw, you have to be that because he could break down at any time.
Given that the club know that left back is a position of need, it just makes me think that they don’t think he has a future at Old Trafford.
Or maybe the timing just isn’t right with Harry. He’s not quite good enough to understudy this season, but his contract is up at the end of this year, so they feel it’s better to cash in while they can.
The biggest issue for Amass, and all youngsters looking to break through is that the rest of the team just isn't that great yet. Therefore we can't afford to put in a youngster who will make a few mistakes as they will be costly compared to if it were in a successful team. Hopefully we get there in a few windows.
That is true and ideally you bed in youngsters slowly into a winning team, like how Fergie did.
But it cuts both ways. What does it say about the quality of our youngsters when they can't challenge some of our quite mediocre players?
Youngsters manage to break in at other Premier League clubs.
And at United. Just not crazy amounts of them at a time. How many PL teams gave markedly more mins to U-21 players than United last season? Or the season before? How many of the top six teams did?
We’ve given minutes to Mainoo, Dorgu, Yoro, Heaven, Amass, Fredricson, Collyer, Garnacho, Obi, Jack and Tyler F., Lacey and Mantato the last two seasons. I’ll bet wether you set the line at U-21, U-20 or U-18, we come out fairly high on the list.
People tend to forget that only once did Ferguson blood a lot of youngsters beside each other - in 95/96, and that season Giggs, Scholes, Butt, G Neville and Beckham became 22, 21, 21, 21 and 21. That’s the age Mainoo, Dorgu, Yoro and Garnacho is now, forget about the younger ones. In it’s such an exception they still have a name for it 30 years later.
I’m in the “give Harry a chance” camp. After all, it’s not as though Shaw is crumbling into dust before our very eyes and that we have the cash to spend 80m on Hall.
We should never have gotten rid of Alvaro, but that ship has sailed.
I'm not sure Transfermarkt is right on that - Amorim almost exclusively played three at the back with WBs, and are there any games under Carrick where he played LB? From what I remember he's exclusively played him further forward.
Players can play multiple positions as emergency back up, but they shouldn't be double counted as the primary back up in multiple positions, which is what people keep doing in this LB debate (which @Brightonian was correctly pointing out). Doing so leaves you with obvious weaknesses and a lack of proper depth.
You're allowed 25 senior players in a PL/CL squad which is typically made up of three GKs, two players for each outfield position, and then a couple extra. You can then supplement that with as many u21 players as you like. The positions we're reportedly prioritising this summer (CM x 2/3, LB, striker) is exactly in line with the positions where we no longer have two players for each position based on recent or impending departures:
RB - Dalot/Maz
CB - De Ligt/Maguire/Yoro (we have a bit extra at CB due to injury issues and younger players coming through)
CB - Martinez/Heaven
LB - Shaw/???
CM - Mainoo/Santos
CM - Tielemans/???
10 - Bruno/Mount
RW - Amad/Mbeumo
LW - Cunha/Dorgu
Striker - Sesko/Zirkzee (or replacement)
Before he left Malacia was ostensibly our second LB, but was either injured and/or rubbish so Shaw played every game (and we're lucky we had such a light schedule and he miraculously managed to stay fit last season).
Having some versatility across the squad helps - it means during injury crises or for tactical reasons you can switch things about. But your primary cover should not come from the second options in other positions playing out of position. That's just poor squad building which makes your squad imbalanced and vulnerable, especially if you want to compete at the highest levels with a heavy game schedule of PL, CL plus domestic cup runs.
Mount and Bruno can step into CM if really needed, but that's not an adequate replacement for having standard cover at CM. Amad and Mbeumo can play on the left if really needed, but that's not in place of having standard cover at LW. Maz or Dalot can step into LB if really needed, but that shouldn't be in place of having standard cover at LB.
Now if the club saw Dorgu as a LB, it would make sense for us to go for a LW instead of a LB. But that doesn't seem to be the case, hence us reportedly being in the market for a LB.
The likes of Amass, Lacey, Fletchers and any other academy prospects who stay are third cover who can rotate in for cup games as well as providing emergency injury coverage.
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Why is this a mad thing to say Amass 'is fifth choice behind Shaw, Dorgu, Maz and Dalot and that's without even counting Licha or Heaven'? Which part of this is untrue - in a sense you see Harry playing ahead of which of those?
The thing is, even if he's 4th choice (behind Shaw, Mazraoui and Dorgu, which he most certainly is), what does it change? Say he's 3rd choice behind Shaw and Mazraoui. He needs playing time, and isn't good enough (apparently, otherwise we would've kept him) to be second choice. And I'm even ignoring the fact we're chasing first choice LB.
You are obviously correct with the point you made regarding "cover in every position", but do you really believe Amass would've played ahead of Mazraoui or Dorgu at LB (as 3rd choice)? It doesn't matter that we are listing players as backup in multiple positions, because it rarely happens they are needed in multiple positions at once.
I would prefer youngster that is capable of playing second choice, or even 3rd choice but not as a "backup" but as a frequently used option. I don't think Amass is on the level and I'm not surprised if he goes all this considered (both club and Harry pov).
That said, maybe I'm just too pessimistic about current bunch of academy prospects as I feel the same way for Fletchers and Lacey. Wouldn't bet on them being regular players in Premier League.
Transfermarkt doesn't have 'wing back' as an option and so tends to list left wingback games as either left fullback or left midfielder. I could be mistaken though - can you tell me which games Dorgu played at left back for us?
It's ok to recognise that flexible players give you options, of course. But as others have said, in a squad of 25 you generally have three goalkeepers and then should roughly aim to have two players whose strongest position is each of the other 10 positions on the pitch. If instead you're relying on, say, Mazraoui to be primary cover at both RB and LB, as soon as you have injuries at both positions (highly likely at some point when one of them is Luke Shaw), you're then pulling players into positions they are not comfortable in - Yoro at RB, say - to cope.
When arguing for and against transfers people will blithely say 'why worry about LB when we have Dorgu Mazraoui Dalot Licha Heaven and I think Tielemans played there once in an emergency plus my gran is a tidy fullback in a pinch'. But none of the above are players that should be relied on as our primary LB back-up if we are doing proper grown-up squad planning.
As my post said, I'm not arguing for any particular position about Amass, so certainly happy to agree to that. My point is, serious football people will be either relying on Amass because they have genuine belief in him being ready, or signing someone at LB. We are not sufficiently covered by Dalot/Maz/Dorgu or whoever for the reasons I stated in my original post.
This is 100% true. Which is why we should see Amass leaving as a good thing (in a way) because surely we're signing a LB.
Also, Amass clearly didn't solve either issue we have (lack of top level LB and lack of a player who can be a consistent backup). That combined with contract situation (which could have been driven by either club / or player) it's not a big surprise to me if he leaves.
I haven't seen anyone really overhyping Amass though, he's shown potential but too many seem to think he's not good enough without him ever getting a proper chance to show us whether he is or not
End of the day he doesn't have to prove himself to us, he has to prove himself to the coaching staff, and that starts in training and not just games. And if he doesn't want to sign an extension then he's really got to be performing at a first team left back level for the coaches to want to push him on and persuade him to stay. I'd like him to sign a new deal and go on loan personally but I can absolutely understand if he wants to go, perhaps he doesn't back himself like that.
Of course he doesn't need to prove himself to us, a loan isn't happening unless he renews his contract, he's 19, he's not had a chance yet to prove he can be a consistent first team player, if he's not going to be given that chance why on earth would he sign a new contract?
Why would he be given that chance if he won't sign a new contract?
If Amass is kept in the senior squad, then yes, I would expect him to get some minutes as third choice LB, likely in domestic cups or as a sub in easier games. That's hypothetical though - doesn't look like he's even making the cut for that.
If Maz is listed as primary back up for both RB and LB as a general gameplan for going in to the season then yes, that's an issue. One injury and suddenly you don't have FB cover without pulling players from elsewhere. That's asking for trouble if you're hoping to compete on four fronts.
Agreed on the academy prospects, but that's perfectly normal. Very few academy players make it to a PL standard in the senior game, let alone playing for one of the bigger clubs.
Many should ask what Amass want as well. He's 19 and he's still on academy salary. At that age he would probably want some sort of pathway to the first team squad. Getting minutes won't cut it at this point. I would love United to emulate what Real Madrid does with kids. They sell low but they insert buy back clauses (that increase year by year) and huge sell on clauses. The buyer has the incentive to develop the kid as that buy back clause will increase accordingly. Meanwhile Real Madrid get their money irrespective on whether the player want to return or want to join another club instead.
The club let Laird down. He was playing every game for Swansea until they decided to move him over to promotion chasing Bournemouth at the time, only to play a bit part as a sub January onwards. Laird currently plays every game for Birmingham when fit.
Very much the same happened with Amass last season, he played every game for Sheff Weds, until the club moved him to Norwich.
Lets hope the decisions we make with loans this upcoming season are better than previous.
Amass got injured just after moving to Norwich. That's down to bad luck, not letting him down
Every single season we have fans who want to rest hopes on completely unproven youngsters. Shaws history leans towards him missing a decent chunk of games, these could be big pl games or cl ties. Your back up isn't only there to play carabao ties so you want people you know can perform at the top level. I'd be happy getting a starting lb and Shaw can become back up
The point were they let him down was when they pulled him from Sheff Weds were he was playing every game for a team scrapping relegation, were he was learning to defend.
It was a pointless move taking him from there to Norwich, his injury makes no difference.
I got the point. But the intention was for him to change the scenery, maybe develop the attacking side of his game. Wednesday was an excellent place to practice the defensive side but not much more.
So my point is perhaps the club didn't let him down and it was just poor luck.
Just like Gore's first two loans. Not the club's fault he got injured immediately after the loan. With more luck he might have established himself like Kobe has. But that is part of football
Poor decision then from the club, as he needs to learn to defend more.
I wouldn't say Kobbie has established himself, he has a lot to improve on himself.
Guess we'll have to agree to disagree and move on
Are we sure that Amass is refusing to renew contract and that is what is driving the rumors / plans of selling him?
It would make sense. I think he is genuinely a great prospect, and while he is probably not ready to be THE backup for Shaw, we still need him even if we bring a top LB in. Amass can play substantial minutes in domestic cup games, this season, and become a backup to the new top LB **next** season, when Shaw will be properly done and finished. We shouldn't be wasting Amass for measly 6M, unless there is indeed a problem with his renewal and we fear we will lose him for zero.
It's just this is the first time I have heard about him refusing to renew
It would make sense. I think he is genuinely a great prospect, and while he is probably not ready to be THE backup for Shaw, we still need him even if we bring a top LB in. Amass can play substantial minutes in domestic cup games, this season, and become a backup to the new top LB **next** season, when Shaw will be properly done and finished. We shouldn't be wasting Amass for measly 6M, unless there is indeed a problem with his renewal and we fear we will lose him for zero.
It's just this is the first time I have heard about him refusing to renew
I’m not sure where that rumour came from. Or if it’s true.
What we do know is that he is out of contract next summer (as is shaw). There seems to be no renewal talk so 6m is where it’s at if he is to be sold.
Thank you, makes sense.
Hoping no news about the renewal is the source of speculation about selling him, and it is not really true. Esp since, as far as I know, we do have right to trigger extension for one more year beyond Summer 2027, and things are not quite as desperate as time running out. Could be agents etc fueling the rumor to help their side of negotiations for the new contract...
If he’s refusing it seems odd he’s not been frozen out?
I have yet to see a reliable source regarding that +1 year. Not saying that it’s not true, I just haven’t read it yet
Amass can be the backup next season for the LB we bring in this season to usurp Shaw.
If we get him to sign a new deal
When does his academy contract expire? It's make or break this week with him isn't it. He's certainly impressed so far on pre season and he's another good example (Amad) of a good loan spell away from the club.
Like @Brightonian said up above, I also don't think we are covered at LB if Shaw is suddenly unavailable. If the priority for the club is to not buy a LB, I think we should keep Amass around. He's too good for the youth teams and not yet/might never be good enough to start at LB for us. So he's stuck. I don't know that another LB brought in as cover would be any happier not playing than Amass would be, although I'd imagine if you asked Amass himself what he preferred, he'd probably prefer being among the first team and playing the odd cup games and filling in when fatigue/injury hits.
I thought he was really good against Atleti.
I thought he was really good against Atleti.
Just have a hunch Shaw might be an ever present or near this season
The +1 would make sense given the game time in pre season with the first team he’s getting
If a player is certainly moving on you just don’t see that happening
It’s not unheard of and has happened in the past. Let’s wait and see what happens
Don't mind if we sell him with a similar deal to Vitek, let him kick-on. Get a LB who's good defensively but really excels in an attacking sense, whether that's Hall or whoever else. We need to buy someone to start games, Amass unfortunately isn't ready for that.