Harry Kane MBE | Performances | Jan 2020: Torn hamstring, won't return to training until April

RyRoc

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Think he's a fantastic player but there's no doubt in the last 12 possibly 18 months or so his all round play has dipped a level or two - wonderful goalscorer still mind.
 

Megadrive Man

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Kane is the last of a dieing breed of top level out and out strikers.

Most top teams play with a front three now, and Kane isn't suited to this formation.

Spurs would play a lot better with a front three of Lamela,Son and Lucas in my opinion.
 

Kush

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The best player have off days. He was poor today, but under circumstances in which he barely got a touch of the ball so the likelihood is he was frustrated and tried to overplay when he did see it. How many opportunities did he have to hold the ball up, 3 or 4 all game? Our whole team struggled badly with their pressure, I don't think a single player looked good in possession, with Eriksen too basically being on the periphery the entire game.

Against Villa he came up with two excellent finishes, the second of which was pure class.

I think in games where we struggle to get the ball he has a tendency to drift a bit, which isn't always a good thing. But he's doing this out of frustration in games where we're simply failing to get anything good going as a team, tactically we were an absolute mess today and when you have a striker like Kane who thrives in and around the penalty area, he's always going to struggle under those circumstances. Like I said, not a single cross in to him all game, nothing played to his feet in and around the box.

Lucas came in a bit later and was used as an out ball because of his pace and ability running with the ball. I do think the game was more suited to him in general because we played it entirely on the counter (in these situations Son is a better option to Kane) and created nothing when we had the ball.
I'm being critical of him because I believe there's a level of talent in him where he can make his mark in these type of games. As in, the team is struggling against pressure but the best player in the team is scrapping for duels in air or trying to harrass the opposition. Over the past season, I've seen him rarely do that. He's happy to drop back and make himself available for a pass but then Spurs have no one up front who can hold the ball to push them forward. Today he didn't even do that, it's weird. I don't know how much of that is due to tactics or just down to himself after raft of ankle injurie but he is passive in many games.

Also, I don't understand his role in the XI when Moura is playing, he's not central with him on the pitch.

Wonder if spurs are pulling a Liverpool re Owen and Torres, constantly rushing him back from injury and fecking his career up in the process
This is my worry too, he's been rushed quickly from many injuries and I wonder if it's impeding his game.

Kane is the last of a dieing breed of top level out and out strikers.

Most top teams play with a front three now, and Kane isn't suited to this formation.

Spurs would play a lot better with a front three of Lamela,Son and Lucas in my opinion.
I'm sorry but that is total nonsense, I don't buy that.

There's no set pattern where you need a fluid front 3 to have a great attack. The Spurs quartet of Kane, Son, Alli and Eriksen was devastating couple of seasons back. But Poch has changed their roles in past season. Alli is being relied as more of a creator and box to box mid, Eriksen is pretty much defacto mid after Dembele left and Son/Moura are being played through the middle to get more goals.

Kane's productivity has dipped down as a result.
 

criticalanalysis

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Kane is a fantastic striker, simple as.

Put him in Aguero or Firminho's place and he would be banging them left, right and centre.

I don't watch enough Spurs games but does he ever get to play with two out and out wide players either side of him e.g Moura and Son either side with Ali/Eriksen well behind him?
 

1966

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I sincerely hope people aren't judging Kane based on that Man City performance in which Spurs had two actual shots and scored from both.

Kane is a striker and should be the furthest man forward: we've discovered through experimentation that he can drop deeper to good effect but playing CM is not the role for which he's widely regarded as world top 3.

In a game where you're so outclassed that you're essentially penned into your own half, your striker is never going to be productive and if he does something, it's likely to be down to sheer luck. Sure, Kane could have come up with a moment of magic but so could Messi during all of the games in which Argentina have sucked in recent years. More often than not, they don't.

That's why they're called moments of magic -- if they occurred in every game, there would be nothing special about them. Kane still always has one in him - just look at Juventus - but on that particular day against Man City, he didn't.

Everyone behind Kane should be shouldering far more of the "blame" than him for the performance. They're occupying the positions that are supposed to be reclaiming possession and moving the ball into the attacking third.

"Better than Kane" Eriksen, especially, was somehow simultaneously anonymous and poor while being in a much better and more natural position to influence the game. In a team squeezed into a defensive two-thirds area of the pitch, the striker is the only player who is always out of position and he's necessarily going to struggle to imprint himself on the game as a result.

It's tragically funny how reactionary football fans are -- performing 180s on a game-by-game basis. Against Villa, Lucas was one of Spurs' worst players and the game was "crying out for Eriksen"; Eriksen comes on, has no direct involvement in any of the goals, yet Spurs' fortunes are reversed so he's lauded as the hero, the lynchpin. The most superficial analysis of what happened is "Spurs were losing, Eriksen came on, they won, ergo Eriksen is their best player, a vital part of the team, the engine room etc.".

Eriksen was useless against Man City. At the same time: "Spurs need a forward-thinking substitution, Lucas comes on, gets a goal", which gives way to an equally simplistic analysis about how Lucas is essential to the team. Some people treat it as a tactical masterstroke too: what, to bring on a short player unlikely to score from a cross to then score from a corner? Doesn't really seem planned. Anyway, now everyone's forgotten that Lucas was previously useless and Eriksen was a game-changer. And by next week, someone else will be the hero. So goes football.

What really happened last week is that the team's structure completely changed after Eriksen came on against Villa, Spurs gained width, then some necessarily daring late forward runs from players who had been bad to that point allowed Kane to do his thing. Kane's second strike was technically superior to anything Eriksen actually did in that match. This week, Lucas got a fine goal, from a set piece, that Kane would also have scored if he was in that position. Lucas didn't create anything. Right place, right time.

Eriksen and Lucas were the obvious heroes of their respective games but there was nothing spectacular or irreplaceable about what they really did.

I'm worried about what effect Kane's persistent ankle injuries have had and I'd agree that he doesn't look like the player who would start for any team in the world in any non-defensive position on the pitch as he did at times a few years ago. Despite all that, he's still the best 9 in the world as far as I'm concerned. His ability to play 10 and all-round technical abilities, even if diminished, are a bonus.

On the other hand, Kane is a notoriously slow starter. He's not match fit. Yet scoring twice on matchday one, especially given the nature of his second, is still far ahead of what he's done in previous seasons. I wonder if he might take time to get up to pace again and then become a wrecking ball this season. Well, maybe if everything behind him falls into place.
 
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UnrelatedPsuedo

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Kane is a fantastic striker, simple as.

Put him in Aguero or Firminho's place and he would be banging them left, right and centre.

I don't watch enough Spurs games but does he ever get to play with two out and out wide players either side of him e.g Moura and Son either side with Ali/Eriksen well behind him?
Aguero is a level above Harry Kane
 

1966

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Aguero is a level above Harry Kane
Not much in the way of a point being made there but I disagree. I think anyone who believes that there's a significant difference is bamboozled by Aguero being the much "flashier" player.

The stats would agree with a lot of people's assertions, including mine, that Kane is better by a slither. The most important overall metric being GPG in which Kane (0.7) and Aguero (0.69) have the two best in PL history. One suspects that if you switched their teams, the difference might be more lopsided in Kane's favour.
 

UnrelatedPsuedo

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Not much in the way of a point being made there but I disagree. I think anyone who believes that there's a significant difference is bamboozled by Aguero being the much "flashier" player.

The stats would agree with a lot of people's assertions, including mine, that Kane is better by a slither. The most important overall metric being GPG in which Kane (0.7) and Aguero (0.69) have the two best in PL history. One suspects that if you switched their teams, the difference might be more lopsided in Kane's favour.
Never in a million years does Kane get in that City side above Aguero.

More players score goals at City. Why would Kane score more when the goals are spread around more? That’s a daft suggestion.
 

cyberman

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Never in a million years does Kane get in that City side above Aguero.

More players score goals at City. Why would Kane score more when the goals are spread around more? That’s a daft suggestion.
surely more players scoring at City is because its easier to score for them?
 

Kush

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Another game for Harry Kane where he had fewer touches than Hugo Lloris in 96 minutes of football.

Seems to roam all around the pitch like Messi these days instead of being in the box, 'best striker in the world' though :houllier:
 

Samid

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Constantly rushing him back from injuries has started to take a toil on his body by the looks of things. I'd be surprised if he's still playing at the top level when he's 31-32.
 

SquishyMcSquish

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He#s not right.

16/17 and 17/18 Harry Kane was a battering ram. He used to dominate defenders through his pressing game and movement, he was a nightmare. In 18/19 that faded a bit but we still got it semi-regularly and his passing/hold up improved, but now his pressing game has almost completely gone and he's just not a handful for defenders at all. The goals are there but the dominating performances aren't.


People will blame rushing back from injuries, but quite a few of our players just don't look right or motivated right now, something isn't quite right at the club.
 

kouroux

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He#s not right.

16/17 and 17/18 Harry Kane was a battering ram. He used to dominate defenders through his pressing game and movement, he was a nightmare. In 18/19 that faded a bit but we still got it semi-regularly and his passing/hold up improved, but now his pressing game has almost completely gone and he's just not a handful for defenders at all. The goals are there but the dominating performances aren't.


People will blame rushing back from injuries, but quite a few of our players just don't look right or motivated right now, something isn't quite right at the club.
They want more money.
 

SquishyMcSquish

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They want more money.
I don't think it's that. May be one of the factors but it's definitely not the sole one.

May be worth more discussion in the Poch thread but I think behind the scenes there's quite a few issues going on, and yes one of them is issues over contracts but I also do think Pochettino himself is struggling to motivate himself as a manager right now, and that's dripping down to the players. Some of his comments last season/this sesason have been negative and he's very sensitive in the press whereas he used to have a far more laid back approach.
 

roonster09

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He#s not right.

16/17 and 17/18 Harry Kane was a battering ram. He used to dominate defenders through his pressing game and movement, he was a nightmare. In 18/19 that faded a bit but we still got it semi-regularly and his passing/hold up improved, but now his pressing game has almost completely gone and he's just not a handful for defenders at all. The goals are there but the dominating performances aren't.


People will blame rushing back from injuries, but quite a few of our players just don't look right or motivated right now, something isn't quite right at the club.
Maybe the burn out is real. Seen many teams who played high intensity game fading away because of burn out, on top of that you didn't add players in last few years and had core team who played many teams.

That's why the manager cycles are short in modern game, after a period of time players will stop playing with same intensity, will need fresh ideas.

I'm not completely sure that's what is happening at Spurs, just 1 of the possibility.
 

Jimmy_Bond

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He#s not right.

16/17 and 17/18 Harry Kane was a battering ram. He used to dominate defenders through his pressing game and movement, he was a nightmare. In 18/19 that faded a bit but we still got it semi-regularly and his passing/hold up improved, but now his pressing game has almost completely gone and he's just not a handful for defenders at all. The goals are there but the dominating performances aren't.


People will blame rushing back from injuries, but quite a few of our players just don't look right or motivated right now, something isn't quite right at the club.
Perhaps the reality that despite what a great team has been put together it's not quite going to be enough to win is sinking in? Must be disheartening seeing those around you spend more every window and having to go again, knowing that in reality you haven't quite got enough to move on to the next level?

Or maybe they've just become a bit immune to Poch? Or, and possibly most likely, it's just a lull that will be overcome sooner rather then later?
 

SquishyMcSquish

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Maybe the burn out is real. Seen many teams who played high intensity game fading away because of burn out, on top of that you didn't add players in last few years and had core team who played many teams.

That's why the manager cycles are short in modern game, after a period of time players will stop playing with same intensity, will need fresh ideas.

I'm not completely sure that's what is happening at Spurs, just 1 of the possibility.
Potentially. I think Pochettino is at his best when he's working with a fresh slate and can shape minds, hence why I do not think he'd be a good choice for a team like Madrid at all.

It's maybe the case that the team has more established stars now and they don't quite buy in to his philosophy in the same way. Or maybe all the intense training and demands Poch places upon the team have become too much season after season when it hasn't really led to a trophy yet.

We can't really know for sure, it's all pure speculation. All I know is something isn't right with the way the team is playing, it's not just bad results we simply don't look like a team coached by Pochettino. I've said it a couple of times before but *shudder* we honestly look more like one coached by AVB. Low intensity, sideways passing, no invention or heart being shown on the pitch. This could be written off as merely poor form/poor start if it was just based on the 3 opening games, but we're looking at a very extended run now in the league where we've been crap.

Kane is just part of that. As a striker it must be so demoralising to look behind you and see the complete lack of ideas, and to see that there's no service at all incoming. But from his side of things he still needs to offer that pressing and movement and right now that's just not happening.
 

SquishyMcSquish

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Perhaps the reality that despite what a great team has been put together it's not quite going to be enough to win is sinking in? Must be disheartening seeing those around you spend more every window and having to go again, knowing that in reality you haven't quite got enough to move on to the next level?

Or maybe they've just become a bit immune to Poch? Or, and possibly most likely, it's just a lull that will be overcome sooner rather then later?

I think this might well be the case, or at least it's what I'm really concerned about. I don't think it can simply be called a lull anymore, it's been a long, long time since we played well in the league over an extended period of time.
 

Jimmy_Bond

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I think this might well be the case, or at least it's what I'm really concerned about. I don't think it can simply be called a lull anymore, it's been a long, long time since we played well in the league over an extended period of time.
If it's any consolation, every time I've thought Spurs were about to fall away they've suddenly hit back and come back even stronger.

You can guarantee that if Poch does need to go, Levy will go and get the very best man for the job. I have a feeling he'd go after the chap at Ajax.
 

SquishyMcSquish

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If it's any consolation, every time I've thought Spurs were about to fall away they've suddenly hit back and come back even stronger.

You can guarantee that if Poch does need to go, Levy will go and get the very best man for the job. I have a feeling he'd go after the chap at Ajax.

:drool: I'd love that so much. Football would be glorious if he got it right.

Anyway I'll leave it there as it's the Kane thread not the Poch one :lol:.
 

BlueMoonOutcast

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Kane is a fantastic goalscorer. My issue with him though is moments. He's 26 now, where are his big moments? Aguero has a ridiculous goalscoring record, but he also has big moments like the Agueroooo goal. He plays under pressure that Kane just doesn't. In big, high pressure games in title races that go down to a single point, or even goal difference, Aguero delivers. Kane has never had to perform under such circumstances and it's a question mark over him in my opinion.
 

Rhyme Animal

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Nonchalantly scoring the winner...
Kane is a fantastic goalscorer. My issue with him though is moments. He's 26 now, where are his big moments? Aguero has a ridiculous goalscoring record, but he also has big moments like the Agueroooo goal. He plays under pressure that Kane just doesn't. In big, high pressure games in title races that go down to a single point, or even goal difference, Aguero delivers. Kane has never had to perform under such circumstances and it's a question mark over him in my opinion.
You might remember the CL final a few months ago...

And you might remember that Kane was on the losing team.
 

SquishyMcSquish

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Kane is a fantastic goalscorer. My issue with him though is moments. He's 26 now, where are his big moments? Aguero has a ridiculous goalscoring record, but he also has big moments like the Agueroooo goal. He plays under pressure that Kane just doesn't. In big, high pressure games in title races that go down to a single point, or even goal difference, Aguero delivers. Kane has never had to perform under such circumstances and it's a question mark over him in my opinion.
He hasn't played for a team anywhere near as good as Aguero, one which will consistently be in these kind of high pressure games. If Aguero played for Spurs do you think he would have those same moments?

Kane has plenty of big game winning moments for us. We were only in the CL last season because Kane scored 2 late against PSV when we were 1 down. He's banged in plenty of derby winning goals vs Arsenal and Chelsea too, but as a team we aren't good enough to be consistently in title challenges. Aguero has had loads of opportunities for moments like that.
 

BlueMoonOutcast

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He hasn't played for a team anywhere near as good as Aguero, one which will consistently be in these kind of high pressure games. If Aguero played for Spurs do you think he would have those same moments?

Kane has plenty of big game winning moments for us. We were only in the CL last season because Kane scored 2 late against PSV when we were 1 down. He's banged in plenty of derby winning goals vs Arsenal and Chelsea too, but as a team we aren't good enough to be consistently in title challenges. Aguero has had loads of opportunities for moments like that.
Aguero is a reason our team has done so well, not just a symptom of it.
 

GlasgowCeltic

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I don’t know what Agueros record is like when it counts for Arg but at Champions League level he’s a non entity
 

Jimmy_Bond

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To be fair he had been rushed back from injury and should never have started as he was nowhere near match fit. Epsecially considering he was being marked by the world's best centre half.
 

SquishyMcSquish

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Aguero is a reason our team has done so well, not just a symptom of it.
Right .. but he's still played in better teams. He's not the sole reason.

Kane is one of the major reasons we're top 4 every season but City have a stronger, deeper squad than we do so obviously Aguero is going to be in the position to have more match winning moments.

He doesn't get these moments for Argentina, and doesn't seem to happen for him in the CL either. But where the rest of the team is dominant (the pl) it seems he has them .. I wonder why?
 

BlueMoonOutcast

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Right .. but he's still played in better teams. He's not the sole reason.

Kane is one of the major reasons we're top 4 every season but City have a stronger, deeper squad than we do so obviously Aguero is going to be in the position to have more match winning moments.

He doesn't get these moments for Argentina, and doesn't seem to happen for him in the CL either. But where the rest of the team is dominant (the pl) it seems he has them .. I wonder why?
I get your point, but none of this negates my point about the pressure he plays under.
 

andyox

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He#s not right.

16/17 and 17/18 Harry Kane was a battering ram. He used to dominate defenders through his pressing game and movement, he was a nightmare. In 18/19 that faded a bit but we still got it semi-regularly and his passing/hold up improved, but now his pressing game has almost completely gone and he's just not a handful for defenders at all. The goals are there but the dominating performances aren't.


People will blame rushing back from injuries, but quite a few of our players just don't look right or motivated right now, something isn't quite right at the club.
Do you think some of it is a change in formation? In 16/17 and 17/18, weren't you playing more of a 442 with Alli playing right up closer to Kane? Now it's more of a 433 which has the potential to leave Kane a bit more isolated, especially in games like City where the wingers are pushed back.
 

SquishyMcSquish

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Do you think some of it is a change in formation? In 16/17 and 17/18, weren't you playing more of a 442 with Alli playing right up closer to Kane? Now it's more of a 433 which has the potential to leave Kane a bit more isolated, especially in games like City where the wingers are pushed back.
Not sure, we're often playing a 4-2-3-1 as well, against Newcastle Lamela was the most advanced. We definitely miss Alli being close to Kane and having that understanding together because Lamela simply doesn't fit the bill.

For a long time we played the diamond and I really wasn't a fan of it, simply didn't work consistently but Pochettino kept persisting. Now we're back to basically a 4-2-3-1 but the front 3 doesn't really work as neither Son or Lucas are the most creative and both at the same time doesn't really work against sides who sit deep and don't give you space. Without Alli and with Sissoko/Winks in midfield we have zero creativity coming from those areas and teams can feel safe in wide areas because our fullbacks are dreadful and simply don't offer enough going forward.

The service in to Kane as a result is terrible, he's not getting any decent crosses in to the box, and he's not getting many balls slipped through the middle. Newcastle basically man marked him out of the game because neither Son or Lucas were really a threat with their back constantly to goal. But Kane is also becoming too easy to shut down and not enough of a handful, right now he's not pressing like he did not so long ago and that's making life super comfortable and easy for defenders.

We should start to look better when Ndombele and Lo Celso properly settle and Alli comes back. Sissoko and Winks as a pairing in midfield are absolutely useless in games where we have a majority of the ball because they have no idea what to do with it. Newcastle were mostly very happy to let them have it in deep areas because they know it's going sideways or backwards. But then it's not just bus parking teams we're struggling against, against you we completely lacked any tempo or ability to carve together any moves, even when a little bit of space was granted. We're just seriously struggling to play basic, decent football at the moment and that's never a good sign.
 

andyox

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Not sure, we're often playing a 4-2-3-1 as well, against Newcastle Lamela was the most advanced. We definitely miss Alli being close to Kane and having that understanding together because Lamela simply doesn't fit the bill.

For a long time we played the diamond and I really wasn't a fan of it, simply didn't work consistently but Pochettino kept persisting. Now we're back to basically a 4-2-3-1 but the front 3 doesn't really work as neither Son or Lucas are the most creative and both at the same time doesn't really work against sides who sit deep and don't give you space. Without Alli and with Sissoko/Winks in midfield we have zero creativity coming from those areas and teams can feel safe in wide areas because our fullbacks are dreadful and simply don't offer enough going forward.

The service in to Kane as a result is terrible, he's not getting any decent crosses in to the box, and he's not getting many balls slipped through the middle. Newcastle basically man marked him out of the game because neither Son or Lucas were really a threat with their back constantly to goal. But Kane is also becoming too easy to shut down and not enough of a handful, right now he's not pressing like he did not so long ago and that's making life super comfortable and easy for defenders.

We should start to look better when Ndombele and Lo Celso properly settle and Alli comes back. Sissoko and Winks as a pairing in midfield are absolutely useless in games where we have a majority of the ball because they have no idea what to do with it. Newcastle were mostly very happy to let them have it in deep areas because they know it's going sideways or backwards. But then it's not just bus parking teams we're struggling against, against you we completely lacked any tempo or ability to carve together any moves, even when a little bit of space was granted. We're just seriously struggling to play basic, decent football at the moment and that's never a good sign.
Got it, thanks for that detail. Sounds like it's a mix of Kane lacking a bit of sharpness/fitness, but also the side-effects of the team not functioning as effectively at the moment, which leaves him more isolated. If you give Kane chances he'll score, but if the team's not creating for him then he's gonna struggle (same as any striker).
 

1966

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Perhaps the reality that despite what a great team has been put together it's not quite going to be enough to win is sinking in? Must be disheartening seeing those around you spend more every window and having to go again, knowing that in reality you haven't quite got enough to move on to the next level?
Not a body language expert or anything but I was saying something very similar to this (with an accompanying detailed essay on the subject) some way into last season based on his overall on-pitch demeanour and attitude in interviews. I even posited that he might move sooner rather than later, realising that he simply can't achieve at Spurs what his individual talent warrants.

Today, for England, he was making more pressing runs than he has in quite some time for Spurs. Is it tactical? Motivation? Who knows? But as someone with deep concerns that Kane's problems are more physical than psychological, I was happy to see him covering more ground and creating a lot more today than he has been recently.
 

SquishyMcSquish

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England at the moment are set up to get the best out of Kane.

Spurs .. are not. Not surprised he's enjoying playing for them more than he is for us and our sideways/backwards passing or hit and hope for Son tactics.
 

George The Best

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Just can’t ever see him leaving Spurs. Seems a really well grounded chap, happy where he is and doesn’t come across as somebody who’d be happy to take the gravy chain at a bigger club - mind you, £200k a week would keep me happy too. Not sure titles mean that much to him at domestic level, think he’d rather like to beat Jimmy Greaves record as all time scorer at Spurs tbh. He can still do it and go down as legend.