Harry Maguire’s speed...

Rozay

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The consensus within the game is that Maguire ‘lacks pace’. I remember when Pep was after him and spoke of him last summer, he mentioned his speed as one of his best attributes. I’ve heard Ole do the same.

I’ve been paying close attention to it myself this season, and my opinion is similar. He is a very fast centre half. Sadly for him, what he lacks is agility. He’s a bit of a big lump. But he’s no slouch, and I think he’s done a disservice when the topic of his speed comes up.
 

Deery

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He was very fast into the tackle against Sterling the other day but I’ve also seen him be very slow a turning.
 

MikeUpNorth

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His 100 metre time is probably not too shabby for a footballer, but he isn't quick and agile over short distances, which is often what counts.
 

Varun

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Slow acceleration, good top speed. While it's good to have the latter, the former is more important in football.
 

sp_107

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When we sign a defender with 80M, he should compliment other defenders and bring the best out of them and not the other way around like we need to sign another CD in this window to support Harry.

Lindelöf and Baily are not that bad but overall we still short of another CD even after spending 80M last year.
 

flappyjay

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Yeah the problem isn't Harry Maguire himself it's the decision to buy a CB that won't compliment lindelof. Now we have to get another cb who will compliment both Lindelof and Maguire.

I know people keep bringing up how Smalling doesn't suit Ole's plans but for this season atleast he shouldn't have been let go. If you think about it Maguire himself doesn't suit how we want to play if we are going to play a high line. He really needs to work on his positioning or he could find himself being replaced in 2 -3 years.
 

Desert Eagle

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Slow acceleration, good top speed. While it's good to have the latter, the former is more important in football.
exactly this. Most attackers rely on a burst of acceleration so if your cb takes a second or two to rev up its night night.
 

Annihilate Now!

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Slow acceleration, good top speed. While it's good to have the latter, the former is more important in football.
It's exactly the same with Lindelof too... his top speed is fine, but his acceleration is incredibly slow.

Bit of a problem when both your centre backs have that same flaw.
 

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I know that the OP is 5 months old at this point, but I'm surprised that Guardiola has publicly praised Maguire's speed - Maguire's pace (or lack thereof) is something that I remember Guardiola was shown specifically instructing his players to target, in a pre-match tactical briefing in the All or Nothing documentary. They identified Maguire's sluggishness as the weak point in Leicester's backline.
 

Chesterlestreet

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Most attackers rely on a burst of acceleration so if your cb takes a second or two to rev up its night night.
That's obviously true in an isolated case.

Football isn't about isolated cases, though. You can compensate for not being absolutely rapid over the first few yards. The individual player can compensate (by positioning/anticipation/reading the game well) - and the team can compensate, by playing in a way that generally doesn't leave the player exposed.

And...sometimes you just can't compensate: a slow-ish player will get skinned from time to time by a rapid attacker. Calculated risk, that. We all remember how Vidic, for instance, was skinned at times. Not to mention Bruce and Pally* against Barca on that infamous night. It happens. It usually did not happen, though - which is the bottom line.

* Classic example of a big man who was slow on the turn, not very fast over the first few yards, but actually very fast once he got into his stride. And a classic example of a player whose strengths clearly outweighed his weaknesses on the whole.
 

Snuffkin

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We need a new cb end of. Harry is club captain he needs speed beside him.
 

OnlyTwoDaSilvas

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His pace his fine, and even his acceleration is decent for a player of his size, it's that change of direction. His agility is poor. A 90 degree turn takes an age. Lindelof is similar, but not quite as slow on the turn.

There's not many 6ft4 centre backs who are all that agile though. Smalling was one of the more mobile centrebacks around, but his weaknesses lied elsewhere. Bailly seems to be much more mobile than Maguire and Lindelof but also has flaws in other parts of his game.

Is there a CB out there that has pace to burn, agile, physically commanding on the ground and in the air, good on the ball, and has a robust understanding of his position? For me, I think you pretty much always going to have to sacrifice at least one of those traits, if not more.
 

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Shove him in the yard and get him chasing chickens - it works I've seen it on the telebox.
 

flappyjay

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His pace his fine, and even his acceleration is decent for a player of his size, it's that change of direction. His agility is poor. A 90 degree turn takes an age. Lindelof is similar, but not quite as slow on the turn.

There's not many 6ft4 centre backs who are all that agile though. Smalling was one of the more mobile centrebacks around, but his weaknesses lied elsewhere. Bailly seems to be much more mobile than Maguire and Lindelof but also has flaws in other parts of his game.

Is there a CB out there that has pace to burn, agile, physically commanding on the ground and in the air, good on the ball, and has a robust understanding of his position? For me, I think you pretty much always going to have to sacrifice at least one of those traits, if not more.
Unfortunately Virgil seems to have all those things for a big guy.
 

Desert Eagle

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That's obviously true in an isolated case.

Football isn't about isolated cases, though. You can compensate for not being absolutely rapid over the first few yards. The individual player can compensate (by positioning/anticipation/reading the game well) - and the team can compensate, by playing in a way that generally doesn't leave the player exposed.

And...sometimes you just can't compensate: a slow-ish player will get skinned from time to time by a rapid attacker. Calculated risk, that. We all remember how Vidic, for instance, was skinned at times. Not to mention Bruce and Pally* against Barca on that infamous night. It happens. It usually did not happen, though - which is the bottom line.

* Classic example of a big man who was slow on the turn, not very fast over the first few yards, but actually very fast once he got into his stride. And a classic example of a player whose strengths clearly outweighed his weaknesses on the whole.
Sure you can compensate. Like the other poster said in an ideal world you have someone like rio or van dijk who has all the attributes you want. Thats why most posters see a need for a cb partner that can cover for his shortcomings better.
 

Chesterlestreet

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Thats why most posters see a need for a cb partner that can cover for his shortcomings better.
I wouldn't mind a monster partner for him either - that would be great. It would be even better if we could replace Maguire himself with a monster CB (which he isn't) AND add another monster to create a latter-day Rio/Vidic combo. Sure.

But meanwhile, I would like to remind people that we aren't actually terrible defensively as it stands.

We have conceded less goals this season (a very sketchy, patchy season at that) than any team except the winners. And our xGA is even better (if you fancy that sort of thing).

And - most importantly: we now, finally, look capable of coming up with answers. If you can score five with ease (and - yes - that is exactly what we did the other day), you don't rely on having a water tight defence.
 

Andersons Dietician

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You can see when he comes forward with the ball and is allowed to open up he’s got decent top end. His problem is his feet are slow as hell and he doesn’t seem to have any real explosion or agility. Maybe he just isn’t naturally athletic.
 

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I think the goal against Spurs was more of a mistake than the goal against Bournemouth. He obviously could have done better for both goals (eg the missed header, and the way he was done) but the Bournemouth goal imo was a really good piece of skill, but Spurs one I think he made a mistake given the players strength.
However both goals I think he was let down by his goalkeeper. You expect a good goalie (esp DDG) to save both of them.
 

Desert Eagle

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I wouldn't mind a monster partner for him either - that would be great. It would be even better if we could replace Maguire himself with a monster CB (which he isn't) AND add another monster to create a latter-day Rio/Vidic combo. Sure.

But meanwhile, I would like to remind people that we aren't actually terrible defensively as it stands.

We have conceded less goals this season (a very sketchy, patchy season at that) than any team except the winners. And our xGA is even better (if you fancy that sort of thing).

And - most importantly: we now, finally, look capable of coming up with answers. If you can score five with ease (and - yes - that is exactly what we did the other day), you don't rely on having a water tight defence.
We arent terrible defensively is a very low bar to set wouldn't you agree. Yes in an ideal world we sign young zanetti,thuram,nesta and roberto carlos and replace our back 4. Get young Kahn for de gea while we're at it. In the real world most people would agree awb and maguire are gonna start for us. A lot of people think Shaw is good enough to be our starting lb. I disagree but im in the minority. The lindelof/bailly spot is up for grabs.

This is the key point though. A strong attack and a good midfield is half your defensive work sorted. The opposition is stretched, they dont get to build momentum with possession, etc etc
 

romufc

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We arent terrible defensively is a very low bar to set wouldn't you agree. Yes in an ideal world we sign young zanetti,thuram,nesta and roberto carlos and replace our back 4. Get young Kahn for de gea while we're at it. In the real world most people would agree awb and maguire are gonna start for us. A lot of people think Shaw is good enough to be our starting lb. I disagree but im in the minority. The lindelof/bailly spot is up for grabs.

This is the key point though. A strong attack and a good midfield is half your defensive work sorted. The opposition is stretched, they dont get to build momentum with possession, etc etc

A very low bar? We are joint 2nd in goals conceded this season. 6 more than Liverpool who have the best defence in Europe.

We kept clean sheets to City, Chelsea, Wolves in our run of 15 games 6 conceded.
 

Chesterlestreet

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We arent terrible defensively is a very low bar to set wouldn't you agree.
Yes, I would agree.

But it's worth mentioning given that many posters on here are a bit - let's say - hysterical.

ETA And, again, it's not really "not terrible" - it's more "haven't conceded more than anyone except Liverpool".
 

Desert Eagle

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A very low bar? We are joint 2nd in goals conceded this season. 6 more than Liverpool who have the best defence in Europe.

We kept clean sheets to City, Chelsea, Wolves in our run of 15 games 6 conceded.
Lets not use goals conceded as the be all end all. We can improve a lot defensively imo. The other cb and lb being my prefered improvements
 

romufc

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Lets not use goals conceded as the be all end all. We can improve a lot defensively imo. The other cb and lb being my prefered improvements
Ofcourse not, it is a stat that shows that we are not doing too bad. I agree we can improve but all of the goals we have conceded since the restart have been mistakes. 3 individual / team mistakes. I would say all 3 are blunders.

Luke Shaw is one of the best defensive LB's around.
 

BlahRules

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I don't think Maguire speed is an issue. His issue is not being nimble enough. The amount of time he plants his feet to the ground and then he is unable to stop attackers when they are attacking him on full pelt. I do believe this can be fixed by training, or maybe not?
 

romufc

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I don't think Maguire speed is an issue. His issue is not being nimble enough. The amount of time he plants his feet to the ground and then he is unable to stop attackers when they are attacking him on full pelt. I do believe this can be fixed by training, or maybe not?
I don't know whether it is me or not, but fatigue can also make you look like that.

Lets not forget that maguire has played every minute since the restart.
 

11101

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Slow acceleration, good top speed. While it's good to have the latter, the former is more important in football.
Most people don't seem to get this and the Opta stats don't help. I'd guess almost all top level footballers have fairly good top speed but not all are quick off the mark. Google has Maguire down as weighing 100kg and whilst i don't believe that's accurate, he is clearly pretty heavy for a footballer. There is no way he is going to be as agile or quick off the mark as the 76kg Daniel James.
 

Adam-Utd

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His straight line speed is fine, it's when he has to turn and accelerate he struggles. That's normal for a man of his size though, it's the trade off for being a brick wall unfortunately.
 

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He can be the fastest guy in the world, but if he has a brain fart like he did against Tottenham and Bournemouth where he got caught flat footed, it won't make any difference in the world. Personally, I think his strengths far outweigh his weaknesses, and as long as these brain farts are turned into learning experience and don't become the norm, I'm good with it...
 

BlahRules

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I don't know whether it is me or not, but fatigue can also make you look like that.

Lets not forget that maguire has played every minute since the restart.
Let's hope this is the case. If he does not improve then I do not think we will challenge for the title next season.
 

Gator Nate

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Maguire also has the poor luck to be on the same squad as the likes of Luke Shaw, Dan James, Aaron Wan-Bisaka, Paul Pogba, Fred, Scott McTominay, Marcus Rashford, and Anthony Martial. Let's face it... if it weren't for Matic... well, he seems to have found pace, too. Ole appears to have built this team for speed first. Maguire is a bit on the wrong end of that bell curve for this team, especially when he's almost playing in the final third along with the rest of the squad.

I'm perfectly fine with Harry, here. He's just going to look a bit like a tortoise compared to the hares Ole has been collecting.
 

The_Midfielder

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Yeah the problem isn't Harry Maguire himself it's the decision to buy a CB that won't compliment lindelof. Now we have to get another cb who will compliment both Lindelof and Maguire.

I know people keep bringing up how Smalling doesn't suit Ole's plans but for this season atleast he shouldn't have been let go. If you think about it Maguire himself doesn't suit how we want to play if we are going to play a high line. He really needs to work on his positioning or he could find himself being replaced in 2 -3 years.
It is not about Smallings defending .. It is the playing from the back reason why Smalling is not with us .. If we had him in our team now, Other teams would have started pressing as soon as the ball is passed to him and closed all lanes ..and we would have lumped the ball away..
Harry and Victor are good on the ball.. and hence they are playing as our starting CBs
Imagine Wan bissaka and Smalling on the right .. we wouldn't have been able to play as we play now
 

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Shove him in the yard and get him chasing chickens - it works I've seen it on the telebox.
Chasing birds often makes players slower! I'm very quick over 100m except that I am slow to accelerate, not so fast in the middle part and struggle to keep running until the finish line, otherwise I'm ace.

On a serious not, I wouldn't be rushing out and buying a new centre back this summer, this is their first season together and their understanding is still developing. Besides we are far from terrible at the back and I think our defence is good enough for a title challenge provided Ddg cuts out the mistakes.
 

UNITED ACADEMY

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When we sign a defender with 80M, he should compliment other defenders and bring the best out of them and not the other way around like we need to sign another CD in this window to support Harry.

Lindelöf and Baily are not that bad but overall we still short of another CD even after spending 80M last year.
Have you ever thought that we actually needed two centre back last summer but the reality is that we could only afford one and Maguire was available?

Lindelof is physically weak & poor in his heading ability while none of Bailly & Lindelof are leader, Maguire compliments those weaknesses.
 

Infra-red

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Is there a CB out there that has pace to burn, agile, physically commanding on the ground and in the air, good on the ball, and has a robust understanding of his position? For me, I think you pretty much always going to have to sacrifice at least one of those traits, if not more.
Upamecano, Torunarigha and Konate are decent all-rounders. Good on the ball, strong in the air and quick. All under 23 years old, too.
 

bond19821982

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Let's say we are 1:1 with Sterling or Hazard 10m outside of our penalty box .Which of our CBs would be able to contain them ?
Maguire would be last in my list and thats exactly his problem. You call it as lack of agility,speed, acceleration- doesn't matter. Thats a major issue for our most expensive CB signing.

Vidic also had the same issue but Rio used to cover him and that's the reason why we need a better partner to Harry.
 

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Let's say we are 1:1 with Sterling or Hazard 10m outside of our penalty box .Which of our CBs would be able to contain them ?
Maguire would be last in my list and thats exactly his problem. You call it as lack of agility,speed, acceleration- doesn't matter. Thats a major issue for our most expensive CB signing.

Vidic also had the same issue but Rio used to cover him and that's the reason why we need a better partner to Harry.
Agree. I think he’s a good defender but every central defender needs a good partner.

Rio and Vidic is the obvious comparison, ones ‘weakness’ was made up for by the others strength in certain areas.

Harry needs a better and quicker defender next to him than he has currently. My pick would be Upamecano from what I’ve seen of him.
 

Rozay

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Lets not use goals conceded as the be all end all. We can improve a lot defensively imo. The other cb and lb being my prefered improvements
Yea, let’s not. I mean, there are far more important things to judge a defence by right?
 

UNITED ACADEMY

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Upamecano, Torunarigha and Konate are decent all-rounders. Good on the ball, strong in the air and quick. All under 23 years old, too.
Some of them have poor injury record. End of the day, there are always the downside of it. Not all centre back right now is like Van Dijk.