No
5
Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 55
- Clean sheets
- 24
- Goals
- 3
- Assists
- 1
- Yellow cards
- 9
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran hold a long overdue conversation about United's awful league form with 1 win in 7. They discuss a disappointing draw at Bournemouth, a not so disappointing draw against Liverpool and a crushing defeat at Chelsea - Is time nearly over for Erik Ten Hag?
Then in a special second half of the pod, Nik welcomes Natalie ( https://twitter.com/natalie_17) to discuss the fortunes of Manchester United Women as they booked a place in the FA Cup Final after a historic first ever win vs. Chelsea.
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You have very low expectations. Playing in the Premier League is way different than playing in Benfica. Remember Forlan? he could not hit a barn door at United but became one of the best players in the world playing in Spain.
Also, I was not referring to a pairing, I was referring to Lindelof as an individual defender. I bet any defender that plays for those teams can win a header against an opposition player. We have 2 in Lindelof and Bailly who left alone won't be able to head anything.
I keep hearing its everyone else's fault when goals are because of Maguire failing to defend properly or being turned easily.
It was really a stupid purchase when we already had Lindelof who is similar to Maguire bar being stronger in the air.
We either play two defensive minded midfielder or buy a world class defender otherwise will be leaking goals.
We won't be always have the chance to outscored the other team when we play decent teams that can defend properly.
I don't have low expectations. I am realistic in the present and most Importantly, support United players and appreciate what they give to the team, their teammates and club.
You're acting spoiled and in a fantasy football land. United have so much to play for and at the foundation of it has been Lindelof and Maguire, through thick and thin.
Are there better players than Lindelof, yes as you said, however for this partnership at this time this season, they have been good and have been relied upon the entire time.
We all know their weaknesses as individuals and as a pairing, but it's not as if it's complete dogshit and a liability as your hidden agenda is portraying.
If there's someone who can come in straightaway and significantly improve on either CB, then let's see what they are about in terms of transfer fee, wages, talent, work ethic, team personally dynamic, adaptability to Manchester and the PL and the pressure of being a Manchester United player. Until then, your unappreciation and putting down players is rubbish
The club's aim and the fans expectations are to win the league and perhaps the Champion's league, which is not under-appreciation. There are expectations at a club like United. We are not expecting a place in the top 4, but to win some trophies. I have no agenda against Lindelof, he simply is not good enough for a club that is aiming high.
I am used to seeing much better players in his position at United, so cannot accept what he offers. It's not just him though, I have issues with Bailly as well. Neither of them deserves a position in the first team. They have one glaring weakness to start off with for a central defender, they can't head a ball.
The club's standard is as a title winning club on multiple fronts. But expectation, standards, reality, and learning/earning to meet those expectations and standards are entirely different propositions.
You cannot expect to do something at a high level until you earn the right to achieve that. You have to earn it. Whether that's getting in better players who then have to show that they can do and play at a high level or that's going with what you currently have and working with that and seeing how high you can go.
It's not just down to Maguire or Lindelof, the entire team and club haven't been good enough for several years to meet the standards demanded of the club set before them.
Lindelof is a first team player. Period. He's earned everything and more for his place in the team and in the starting XI. If he's so weak at heading the ball, in fact you're claiming he can't do it, then why hasn't United conceded from more crosses, corners, or goals in general? If he was so shit, why did United extent his contract? Same with Maguire. Same with all the other players who start more weeks than not. We're not in a land where you buy galaticos and roll the ball out and expect things to happen just because. You have no right to expect anything to happen for you. You have to work for it and earn it.
Nobody is unaware or in disbelief that current United players are not up to the same standard as world class players of yesteryear such as Rio, Vidic, Evra, Rooney, Ronaldo, etc. But you're comparing players now with some of the best ever. And while that would never be a bad thing, United can still achieve major trophies with the likes of Lindelof playing a major role with his team. How much these players can still improve and play at a high level is up to them and it's up to them to earn that right with their teammates.
United never had a full team of world class players and every position. What they did have and what always carried them to the top is the self belief within themselves to always outwork the opposition, impose their qualities, and have the confidence in themselves and their teammates to perform to the best of their ability week in week out without fear and having that resolve.
That is earned, not given and worked towards or having a false expectation.
Lindelof can be upgraded, but with that comes risk and the expectation that the player who could come in has to be a clear undeniable upgrade and at what financial cost, when there are at least two more clear areas of importance for United's first XI.
You completely dismissing Lindelof and saying he belongs in the Championship and doesn't even deserve a place in the first team, of which he's earned more than only a few United CBs could say in the past several years, is bullshit. You are talking nonsense about Lindelof and people like you should take it down several notches before thinking of belittling him and dismissing his quality and importance to this squad.
You say Lindelof can’t head anything and suggest AWB?
About Portuguese league. It’s not as strong as PL, far from. But when Lindelof played at Benfica they played quarter finals in CL. The same year, only City made it that far from the English teams.
And the anecdote about Forlan, what does that prove? Bruno came from Portugal’s third best team and immediately made huge impact at United. Some even say he made all the difference.
Yeah, that was weird.
AWB would be an absolutely awful CB, IMO. Would make Jones look great in comparison. He is brilliant as a defensive RB, and his tackling is second to none IMO, but his positioning is far from great, and we all laughed (at times for bizarre reasons) for CBs who have to tackle all the time (for example, Terry was considered such a type of CB, despite his decent positioning).
I actually think that Shaw would be a better CB than AWB, though not particularly great at it either. In fact, if we need a non-CB specialist there, I would prefer Matic ahead of either of AWB and Shaw.
I actually said he had a bad game, which is something every player has had for us so far. Other than that, we have 33 goals against us with five games left. Even if we were to concede 2 per game every week, that'd bring our total up to 43, which would still be 11 less than last year. At the same time, we have a good chance of having the same amount of goals on the other end of the pitch. Thus, our defense must have improved without sacrificing our offensive output.
Maguire's individual defensive statistics also look quite good in comparison to the rest of the league. Hence, he must have had a rather positive impact on our play.
Thus, it seems you're overreacting to certain errors or certain bad games in relation to the entire rest of the season.
GIven we're going to be playing on the front door most of the time he's going to be a liability. He's slow and has the turning circle of a 24 ton truck. We can't afford to concede goals all Willy nilly. We simply need better.
To make another argument with data
Understat has our xGA as almost the same as Liverpool's this season and the second best in the league behind them. The reasons for the respective league positions I would argue is that Liverpool have been lucky with some bad finishing etc but also that they have the outstanding goalkeeper in the league. United have been undermined by DDG this season at the back rather than by the back 4, including Maguire.
https://understat.com/league/EPL
Understat has our xGA as almost the same as Liverpool's this season and the second best in the league behind them. The reasons for the respective league positions I would argue is that Liverpool have been lucky with some bad finishing etc but also that they have the outstanding goalkeeper in the league. United have been undermined by DDG this season at the back rather than by the back 4, including Maguire.
https://understat.com/league/EPL
You can write a novel, but United won't be able to challenge for the title until they get a proper partner for Maguire, and players like Lindelof and Bailly are out of the team.
What's so weird about playing Bissaka as a center half? These are 2 entirely different positions, and Bissaka would not have to move up and down the pitch and get caught out of position. We just need his defensive excellence to cover for Maguire.
Bissaka actually wins headers which Lindelof does not. He is also a brilliant one on one defender and tackler. He might not be the tallest player at 6' , but he will do far better than Lindelof if Ole was brave enough to make that change. Is he the answer to partner Maguire in the long term? No, but he would do a fine job right now in the short term.
Regarding Forlan, Lindelof was mentioned doing well at a top club like Benfica, what I was saying was that was a totally different league. He might have been a great player at Benfica, he is not so hot in the Premier League. Forlan struggled in the Premier League but took La Liga by storm. Different leagues actually make players look different, that's all.
I dont agree at all that AWB is better in the air. He is even very poor in the air and no way near Lindelof in that aspect. Let’s look at the stats:
AWB has won 17 aerials this whole season, Lindelof 82.
AWB wins 37% of his aerial attempts and loses 63%
Lindelof wins 63% and loses 37%.
AWB wins 0.7 aerials per game which is the lowest of all defenders at United.
118 defenders have played 10 matches or more in PL this season. Out of 118 defenders there are only 3 who win less headers than him.
He is simply not better than Lindelof in the air.
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I think a-lot of issues lie with his transfer fee. Signing a CB for that kind of money should have been the signing that shored up our defence, much like VVD for Liverpool. However, there's now talk of going out to sign another CB to accommodate for Maguire's deficiencies which seems kind of ludicrous. He's been generally good this season but far from great.
In our teams of yesteryear he would have been nothing more than a squad option and I don't see him as being much better - or better at all - than the likes of Evans or Brown. In saying that, there is certainly a derth of top quality centre backs out there compared to 10 or 15 years ago. I didn't want us to sign him - I feel he's very overrated by a certain group on here - but he's here now and he's been fine so far. For me though, himself and Lindelof don't have any kind of understanding to form a stable longterm partnership. If Ole feels we need someone better next to Maguire - which we do - then hopefully that player will be someone who will have strengths to cover Maguire's weaknesses. Clearly the current CB partnership with Lindelof badly lacks pace.
I see people starting to question his leadership recently but without inside knowledge of what goes on at the club, we really don't know anything about that. The players seem to respect him and if Ole who sees him every day feels he's captains material, then we all just have to respect that the players and manager have a far better insight than us. I can see him being a captain along the lines of Henderson. The days of iconic captains like Keane, Gerrard, Terry, Cantona etc seem a thing of the past in the PL right now. It's not really as if we have a team bursting with obvious candidate's for the captaincy.
For the people that seem to really think he's a bit naff, you better start getting used to the fact that he'll be a mainstay in the side for the foreseeable.
In our teams of yesteryear he would have been nothing more than a squad option and I don't see him as being much better - or better at all - than the likes of Evans or Brown. In saying that, there is certainly a derth of top quality centre backs out there compared to 10 or 15 years ago. I didn't want us to sign him - I feel he's very overrated by a certain group on here - but he's here now and he's been fine so far. For me though, himself and Lindelof don't have any kind of understanding to form a stable longterm partnership. If Ole feels we need someone better next to Maguire - which we do - then hopefully that player will be someone who will have strengths to cover Maguire's weaknesses. Clearly the current CB partnership with Lindelof badly lacks pace.
I see people starting to question his leadership recently but without inside knowledge of what goes on at the club, we really don't know anything about that. The players seem to respect him and if Ole who sees him every day feels he's captains material, then we all just have to respect that the players and manager have a far better insight than us. I can see him being a captain along the lines of Henderson. The days of iconic captains like Keane, Gerrard, Terry, Cantona etc seem a thing of the past in the PL right now. It's not really as if we have a team bursting with obvious candidate's for the captaincy.
For the people that seem to really think he's a bit naff, you better start getting used to the fact that he'll be a mainstay in the side for the foreseeable.
It isnt Maguire's fault Manutd paid £80m to sign him. His deficiencies have not just developed overnight. We all knew he lacked in pace.
Watch the 1 game we played without Maguire this season, it will show you how crap we were defensively.
Watch how we pass out the back, Maguire and Lindelof are key to that.
Watch how many headers, blocks he makes in a game.
People saying £80m he should have sured up the defence single handedly? Erm no. Just because VVD did that, that doesn't mean everyone will.
Bayern signed Hernandez for £70m and he looks like he could be out the door.
Chelsea signed £70m keeper and still look shakey
City have spend £200 + on defenders and still look shakey.
I saw VVD make a mistake yday but didnt get punished for it. VVD has made numerous errors this season.
Maguire has sured up our defence, it is not complete but 6 goals in 14 games says it all considering DDG should have saved 3/4 of them.
Watch the 1 game we played without Maguire this season, it will show you how crap we were defensively.
Watch how we pass out the back, Maguire and Lindelof are key to that.
Watch how many headers, blocks he makes in a game.
People saying £80m he should have sured up the defence single handedly? Erm no. Just because VVD did that, that doesn't mean everyone will.
Bayern signed Hernandez for £70m and he looks like he could be out the door.
Chelsea signed £70m keeper and still look shakey
City have spend £200 + on defenders and still look shakey.
I saw VVD make a mistake yday but didnt get punished for it. VVD has made numerous errors this season.
Maguire has sured up our defence, it is not complete but 6 goals in 14 games says it all considering DDG should have saved 3/4 of them.
Was reading about Scottish football earlier and the amount of minutes some players there play each season and when I looked at a link to transfermarket, Maguire is very high up (Around 5th I think it was) in terms of minutes played this season in world football/European football. Went and looked at your overall squad from that and he's played 700 mins more than any other player you have, he's easily the first pick for Ole and he clearly sees him as one of your most important players for his overall attributes, not just as a defender.
I think the past few weeks have shown that he's sometimes susceptible in 1 on 1 situations but overall he makes you collectively better as a unit and he'd be helped by a CB that complements him better. I don't think Lindelof does.
I think the past few weeks have shown that he's sometimes susceptible in 1 on 1 situations but overall he makes you collectively better as a unit and he'd be helped by a CB that complements him better. I don't think Lindelof does.
Correction AWB, lindelof, Maguire and Shaw/Williams have sured up our defense. He has been good but this has been a collective effort. All of them have been good. Going from past it wingers as fullbacks to actual fullbacks has also played its role in our defensive strength. He is definitely our strength in playing out from the back though.
We conceded 54 in the league last season and have conceded 33 this season with 5 games to go. It's fair to say that AWB and Maguire have significantly improved our defence.
I agree
Yes, sorry correction but Maguire has been part of it. I like Maguire, is he perfect no? AWB has done well too. Alot of people have agendas V Lindelof and Shaw which is absurd to me.
Lindelof went off and we look shaky at the back.
What we should do next is work on our defense of set pieces. If you look at our backline none of them is short. Then you have a couple of tall midfielders in there. We shouldn't be conceding so much from set pieces
I agree, tbh since the restart we have looked better. I think conceding silly goals needs to stop. DDG, Maguire, AWB, Lindelof, Shaw are not experienced in playing when they see no action for alot of the game, so when they are made to defend their concentration is not there. These players are all used to sitting back and playing. This is why the defence will take longer to get right, they just need to be switched on all game.
He wasn't brilliant against Bournemouth but I'm willing to cut him some slack, he's played 4122 minutes this season which is a hell of a lot of football. If our back ups weren't permanently injured we might have been able to afford him an occasional bit of rest here and there. He's definitely a good defender and Solskjaer clearly trusts him, he plays basically every minute in every game and he's been made captain, for my money he's the best CB we've had in the post SAF era.
I think Maguire and Lindelof are both good players individually, it's obvious how much Solskjaer values ball playing ability for his CBs, but I think the lack of acceleration between them can be costly and that's why I hope we'll dip into the transfer market for a more athletically gifted CB to partner Maguire. Shame Tuanzebe's such a crock because he does have some attributes Solskjaer might value, he's a phenomenal athlete and he's comfortable on the ball which fits the bill, but he may well have missed his opportunity.
I'm still of the opinion that our defence is good, but could still do with improvements. Lindelof is the one I'd make room for a new CB for, but I'd still keep him around because unlike our other CBs he has a habit of actually staying fit. I also think De Gea's a very real problem, I've given him a lot of slack because of his history but it's been 2 years of errors for us now, if we have ambitions of being a top club I think we have to get ruthless. It's starting to feel like every shot against him is a 50/50, when it used to feel like an 90/10.
I think Maguire and Lindelof are both good players individually, it's obvious how much Solskjaer values ball playing ability for his CBs, but I think the lack of acceleration between them can be costly and that's why I hope we'll dip into the transfer market for a more athletically gifted CB to partner Maguire. Shame Tuanzebe's such a crock because he does have some attributes Solskjaer might value, he's a phenomenal athlete and he's comfortable on the ball which fits the bill, but he may well have missed his opportunity.
I'm still of the opinion that our defence is good, but could still do with improvements. Lindelof is the one I'd make room for a new CB for, but I'd still keep him around because unlike our other CBs he has a habit of actually staying fit. I also think De Gea's a very real problem, I've given him a lot of slack because of his history but it's been 2 years of errors for us now, if we have ambitions of being a top club I think we have to get ruthless. It's starting to feel like every shot against him is a 50/50, when it used to feel like an 90/10.
Lindelof will be in the squad and deserves his place, let alone his current first choice selection. Nobody disagrees that United can do with a better partner for Lindelof and/or Maguire.
But you slating Lindelof, as you have, which you cannot deny, is terrible on your part as a supporter and many others. There have been certain standards set by the great United teams, which is fine because it's part of the club and what it means to play for United, but if/when you're not at that level personally, that doesn't mean you cannot achieve that as a team.
Wes Morgan and Robert Huth won a PL title as a CB pairing. And you're right, I can write a novel because it makes objective sense while you can write a sentence that discredits you or shows you have some odd bias against Lindelof on more levels than some of your better contributions such as; you continue to say Lindelof cannot head a ball away or that AWB is better at headers than Lindelof which someone discredited you on that, AWB will not be a CB for a long time if ever, Lindelof is a championship player at best, you look down on AWB's height saying he's only about 6 foot tall all while only focusing on his sweeping up ability due to his speed and AWB is not a better header of the ball than Lindelof all while you're banging your drum about CBs having the best abilities to head the ball away, "there's not a ounce of attacking talent in this guy" your comment on AWB....and my personal favorite comment of yours -
"Jones has become a sort of a joke recently, but he has been quite a good player over his career at United."
Harry Maguire is a very good CB and is one of the best in the league. He's not perfect by any means but he's so far shown he's more than good enough for United. He's the club captain. He's not an issue, let's move on.
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Did 'Arry shag his wife or something or is he jealous that he never earned as much?
He's had a few slips recently but he's still one of the better defenders in the league. The amount of stick he's been receiving feels disproportionate when he's our 2nd best defender after AWB.
We have much worse CB's who don't catch nearly as much flack but I figure it's mainly down to his transfer fee.
Have little doubt that he'd look like a top 5 defender again with a quicker and more solid partner back there than Lindelof.
Pretty sure they must have played against each other.
I got a feeling Harry called him a little dwarf or something. He clearly can't let it go.
I got a feeling Harry called him a little dwarf or something. He clearly can't let it go.
Aston Villa 0:3 Man Utd
There is a massive improvement in United defense & United dressing room since Maguire was signed, that's also a good reflection about his leadership skill influence in our team.
Me & others are not the only ones who spoke about Maguire's leadership skill. One of our best captain also mentioned Maguire's leadership skill.
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Classic Keane.
Good game, he is a very solid long passer.of the ball.
I think he's just one of the hater. Hating the player since he criticised him once, and insisting to stick to his opinion no matter what. If he can find just a single mistake from the player, he will use it as opportunity to bash the player. We've seen people like that in this forum.
This cnut needs to wind his neck in, got a weird obsession with Maguire. Similar to Sourness with Pogba.
Was extremely good playing out of the back today. One fantastic raking ball to AWB early in the first half that AWB just couldn't control
So that Trezeguet(?)'s shot...
What is our great captain doing letting him have a free go shooting?
Otherwise, another fine game and one great pass to AWB.
What is our great captain doing letting him have a free go shooting?Otherwise, another fine game and one great pass to AWB.
He had a runner outside of him. At that point you have to either press the shot and risk the ball being slipped in behind for an easy free shot, or just hold your line cover the runner and hope your keeper can save the shot.So that Trezeguet(?)'s shot...
Otherwise, another fine game and one great pass to AWB.
Yeah their unhealthy obsession is really unhealthy.This cnut needs to wind his neck in, got a weird obsession with Maguire. Similar to Sourness with Pogba.
Wonder what happened.
Souness maybe silently admiring Pogba's talents but didn't produce it enough on the pitch, being a midfielder himself... (I'm being too kind here).
But VDV though... is too personal and most likely not football-related.
Jealousy with what Mag had at home?
He did have to cover two attackers tbf. I don’t think you can expect many defenders to deal with that situation, you can’t give the ball away that cheaply in the middle.So that Trezeguet(?)'s shot...
Otherwise, another fine game and one great pass to AWB.
I'll give him a benefit of the doubt. It's a quick sudden movement, may caught him by surprise.
Surely he could see Shaw is near and is moving to the "runner outside of him" unless he didn't see Shaw. Lindelof is far covering for the "other runner outside of him" and AWB is too far. Therefore Maguire should be the one that try and block.
Did he have to? Shaw is near and handling the other.
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^ Watch 3:12. That positioning is too ridiculous. Poor defending. Otherwise he defended well overall today.
EDIT: the vid is removed and changed. So here's another.
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