[11101]

If you actually re--watch the clip again (Dante posted on this page), Before Maguire decided to moved into central area, Maguire checked around him quickly and he knew where Ayew was as well as Fosu Mensah & all players. There was massive gap in that central area and he went to cover it. Mensah had plenty of time to drop back & cover for him, and instead he was just jogging back without sensing the danger.

I already said that on the previous page or two. If he wanted TFM to cover Ayew he certainly didn't tell him that or pass him on to TFM, so again that's a mistake however you cut it.

Anyway, let's leave it at that. Youre never going to be convinced and it's not like hes not been good for us overall.

 

[Leonzo1]

Can't believe the stick this guy gets here after every goal we concede. I get that some people have agenda's against players like Pogba and the pre 2020 version of Martial, but Maguire?
Granted he is not perfect and yes obviously we overpaid for him but how is that his fault?
The guy played 49 times for us this season. He is the most reliable CB we have had for the last decade by a country mile. The guy is a born leader, fantastic in the air, great tackler and scored some very important goals for us yet from reading the cafe you get the feeling he is a slightly better version of Phil Jones. Delighted we've got him, easily top 5 CB's in the league.

 

[Adamsk7]

Can't believe the stick this guy gets here after every goal we concede. I get that some people have agenda's against players like Pogba and the pre 2020 version of Martial, but Maguire?
Granted he is not perfect and yes obviously we overpaid for him but how is that his fault?
The guy played 49 times for us this season. He is the most reliable CB we have had for the last decade by a country mile. The guy is a born leader, fantastic in the air, great tackler and scored some very important goals for us yet from reading the cafe you get the feeling he is a slightly better version of Phil Jones. Delighted we've got him, easily top 5 CB's in the league.

Good post and completely agree. I’ve said the same previously. 49 games is a lot and for the vast majority, he’s been fantastic. His passing, heading (defensively) and calmness are all top tier, significantly better than anything we’ve had since Rio and Vidic and the rest of his game is all still good to very good. I think we’ll see the best of him next to a more proactive and Lacey partner as whilst a good defender, I don’t think Lindelof compliments him very well.

Think he will continue to get stick, similar to Pogba, purely based on his price.

 

[LJJT]

What are his standards? He has been playing like this for years, just that the novelty and excitement of a new signing have worn off.

He is a good player, who should have cost 40m top, and be at best third choice. We got mugged by paying double his price and making him captain and leader.

His standards are high, he’s one of the best centre backs in the league. Most importantly to us, not only is he a good player and captain, he’s fit and dependable. Something that has held us back for years

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

I already said that on the previous page or two. If he wanted TFM to cover Ayew he certainly didn't tell him that or pass him on to TFM, so again that's a mistake however you cut it.

Anyway, let's leave it at that. Youre never going to be convinced and it's not like hes not been good for us overall.

Communication is important but not everytime you need to tell others to cover. When my centre back or full backs decides to go forward, as a midfielder, I don't need them to tell me to cover because I know what I need to do. The same goes with Mensah & Maguire situation here, Mensah was ball watching, he was aware where Ayew was & he had time to drop back covering for the spot.

 

[VivaObertan]

Can't believe the stick this guy gets here after every goal we concede. I get that some people have agenda's against players like Pogba and the pre 2020 version of Martial, but Maguire?
Granted he is not perfect and yes obviously we overpaid for him but how is that his fault?
The guy played 49 times for us this season. He is the most reliable CB we have had for the last decade by a country mile. The guy is a born leader, fantastic in the air, great tackler and scored some very important goals for us yet from reading the cafe you get the feeling he is a slightly better version of Phil Jones. Delighted we've got him, easily top 5 CB's in the league.

Sense is finally spoken! Also he was taking injections throughout Jan-Mar for the squad. SO glad we've got him.

 

[Adam-Utd]

Just to quote Suedesi's post again. Do people really really think this is NOT a bad defending, and Ayew supposed to be TFM man? I mean, really??

Maguire did nothing wrong at all. You never split away from your centre back partner and leave a gaping hole in the middle of the box. If a midfielder is running in they'll have a free tap in from 5 yards out with nobody to even attempt a block.

TFM is completely out of position, he should be close to Maguire about 5 yards behind him tucked inside (exactly where Ayew is) . He would be goalside of Ayew and able to put a block on him or stop the ball.

He is ball watching and doing nothing - but we can't moan too much as he's not a left back and hasn't played in a long time.

The fact is though people are trying to blame Maguire for something that is clearly not his fault. A CB will always guard the space in the centre of the 6 yard box.

It was also a very good cross that curled right between the goalkeeper and the defensive line, sometimes you just have to say well done good cross.

 

[Web of Bissaka]

Can't believe the stick this guy gets here after every goal we concede. I get that some people have agenda's against players like Pogba and the pre 2020 version of Martial, but Maguire?
Granted he is not perfect and yes obviously we overpaid for him but how is that his fault?
The guy played 49 times for us this season. He is the most reliable CB we have had for the last decade by a country mile. The guy is a born leader, fantastic in the air, great tackler and scored some very important goals for us yet from reading the cafe you get the feeling he is a slightly better version of Phil Jones. Delighted we've got him, easily top 5 CB's in the league.

Every goal? no, just the one where he played a role in conceding and nearly concede.

So you're saying we should turn a blind eye each time he made mistakes or poor defending, just because he improved our defense, played the most, is a reliable CB, good leadership (yeah right, shouting nowadays counts as good leadership it seems), good talents, better than Jones and EPL's top 5 CB (easily debatable).

What's with the special treatment?
Blind support is pointless. Support with only flowery praises, always accepting and no criticisms are pointless.

I think some of us who criticized him do so to understand more what kind of player he is, eg. what are his strengths and weaknesses, etc. At least that's how it is for me. It's not to have an agenda against him. So hopefully no misunderstandings.

 

[Isotope]

Maguire did nothing wrong at all. You never split away from your centre back partner and leave a gaping hole in the middle of the box. If a midfielder is running in they'll have a free tap in from 5 yards out with nobody to even attempt a block.

TFM is completely out of position, he should be close to Maguire about 5 yards behind him tucked inside (exactly where Ayew is) . He would be goalside of Ayew and able to put a block on him or stop the ball.

He is ball watching and doing nothing - but we can't moan too much as he's not a left back and hasn't played in a long time.

The fact is though people are trying to blame Maguire for something that is clearly not his fault. A CB will always guard the space in the centre of the 6 yard box.

It was also a very good cross that curled right between the goalkeeper and the defensive line, sometimes you just have to say well done good cross.

Sorry, mate. Said it in previous post. I'm done with discussing this point. It seems like nobody would change anybody's view even with looking at exactly the same clips and screenshots.

 

[Adam-Utd]

Sorry, mate. Said it in previous post. I'm done with discussing this point. It seems like nobody would change anybody's view even with looking at exactly the same clips and screenshots.

People are entitled to their opinions, but at that point maguire would never run to the back post to mark somebody. You have to be relying on your team mates to be doing their jobs and they weren’t.

if TFM is in position he cuts it out and this whole silly discussion isn’t required.

 

[ThinkTank@Cafe]

Maguire is better than VvD this season according to this:
https://www.caughtoffside.com/2020/07/16/van-dijk-vs-maguire-stats/
Harry outperforms the Dutch in the following areas:
Blocks
Interceptions
Headed clearances
Tackles
Tackles success
United also have slightly better xGa than Liverpool according to uderstat.com:
https://understat.com/league/EPL

Food for thought for those who can’t forgive Harry his price tag. I’m not saying, Harry is a better footballer or a better centerback. I’m insisting that Maguire is a top CB, quite possible second best in the world.

 

[Cassidy]

Maguire is better than VvD this season according to this:
https://www.caughtoffside.com/2020/07/16/van-dijk-vs-maguire-stats/
Harry outperforms the Dutch in the following areas:
Blocks
Interceptions
Headed clearances
Tackles
Tackles success
United also have slightly better xGa than Liverpool according to uderstat.com:
https://understat.com/league/EPL

Food for thought for those who can’t forgive Harry his price tag. I’m not saying, Harry is a better footballer or a better centerback. I’m insisting that Maguire is a top CB, quite possible second best in the world.

Maybe all you have proven is stats are meaningless without context

 

[Robbie Boy]

Nothing beats some uncontextualised stats.

 

[Jonno]

Very underrated on here due to lack of pace & price tag. He’s added a formidable spine To this team that regularly produces clean sheets - 13 clean sheets in our last 19.

 

[Traub]

Surely a WUM saying he is the second best CB in the world?? You only have to look in a 50 mile radius to find two better CB's in VvD and Laporte.

 

[ThinkTank@Cafe]

Maybe all you have proven is stats are meaningless without context

May be you are just throwing cliches. Maguire played his first season in a team which defense was non existent last season. He assumed the captain role and responsibility for organizing defense.

He deserve a lion share of credit for the big games such as vs Chelsea and City. We also had an even fight with Liverpool.

Yes, we leaked a lot of goals in the beginning, Maguire made some memorable mistakes (esp. vs fast players), which affected some fans perception of him (coupled with his price tag).

This is the first full season of this team and we we are on par on xGa with Liverpool. Maguire stats demonstrate his consistency. You have only your judgement backed by arrogant remark.

 

[ThinkTank@Cafe]

Surely a WUM saying he is the second best CB in the world?? You only have to look in a 50 mile radius to find two better CB's in VvD and Laporte.

why Is it a WUM? Just because it happens to be an opposite to what you think? Laporte was injured this season.

 

[Cassidy]

May be you are just throwing cliches. Maguire played his first season in a team which defense was non existent last season. He assumed the captain role and responsibility for organizing defense.

He deserve a lion share of credit for the big games such as vs Chelsea and City. We also had an even fight with Liverpool.

Yes, we leaked a lot of goals in the beginning, Maguire made some memorable mistakes (esp. vs fast players), which affected some fans perception of him (coupled with his price tag).

This is the first full season of this team and we we are on par on xGa with Liverpool. Maguire stats demonstrate his consistency. You have only your judgement backed by arrogant remark.

Go and look at Smallings stats vs top defenders over the years.
When you compare individual stats one vs one you can make all sorts of wild claims

Also you seem to be attributing United improvement in xGa with the arrival of Maguire, but not the improvement of Matic or the swapping Young for AWB. Bascially what I am saying is that the evidence you have provided for your statement has no context and proves nothing.
Not to mention that you haven't compared any CBs outside of the PL but go on to say second best in the world...

It isn't an arrogant remark, its just pointing out the fact that you have not substantiated your claim with evidence that supports it. You have jumped to a massive conclusion based on a subset of statistics provided without relevant context.

You will also notice I didn't agree or disagree with your claim (I disagree by the way) all I did was point out that the evidence you provided was inadequate.

 

[Cassidy]

Very underrated on here due to lack of pace & price tag. He’s added a formidable spine To this team that regularly produces clean sheets - 13 clean sheets in our last 19.

Also applies to Lindelof... and AWB.... etc

 

[Idxomer]

I'm in the middle regarding him and accepted from the start his strengths and weaknesses, now we just need to find him a better partner than Lindelof.

Smalling from 5 years ago would've been ideal.

 

[ThinkTank@Cafe]

Go and look at Smallings stats vs top defenders over the years.
When you compare individual stats one vs one you can make all sorts of wild claims

Also you seem to be attributing United improvement in xGa with the arrival of Maguire, but not the improvement of Matic or the swapping Young for AWB. Bascially what I am saying is that the evidence you have provided for your statement has no context and proves nothing.
Not to mention that you haven't compared any CBs outside of the PL but go on to say second best in the world...

It isn't an arrogant remark, its just pointing out the fact that you have not substantiated your claim with evidence that supports it. You have jumped to a massive conclusion based on a subset of statistics provided without relevant context.

You will also notice I didn't agree or disagree with your claim (I disagree by the way) all I did was point out that the evidence you provided was inadequate.

The context is provided by the games we both watched.

Maguire plays an important role in our build up. He and Matić are key players for dealing with high pressing, which was (and sometimes, still is) our main problem.
Besides, as I already mentioned, Maguire organises our defence and captains the team, the attributes you also fail to notice.
On top of that, he has brilliant individual stats.
Smalling might have similar stats in defending but he misses everything else. He is an atrocious CB for a dominating side.
No doubts that AWB and Matić also contributed a big deal to the progress we have. No argument here.
Maguire is a key player for us, and a top CB. 2nd in the world is my personal assessment. I’m open to any opinions here.

 

[Jonno]

Also applies to Lindelof... and AWB.... etc

Correct

 

[Cassidy]

The context is provided by the games we both watched.

Maguire plays an important role in our build up. He and Matić are key players for dealing with high pressing, which was (and sometimes, still is) our main problem.
Besides, as I already mentioned, Maguire organises our defence and captains the team, the attributes you also fail to notice.
On top of that, he has brilliant individual stats.
Smalling might have similar stats in defending but he misses everything else. He is an atrocious CB for a dominating side.
No doubts that AWB and Matić also contributed a big deal to the progress we have. No argument here.
Maguire is a key player for us, and a top CB. 2nd in the world is my personal assessment. I’m open to any opinions here.

I'm not sure I agree with you. Both Matic and Maguire are one of the reasons we struggled to deal with effective high pressing e.g vs Southampton
I've also seen little evidence of Maguire organisation of the defence, but I guess because he wears the armband it must be what he is doing. Another example the corner we conceded vs Southampton or the goal we conceded vs Palace when Shaw went off injured (earlier in the season at OT).
There are also other instances where the defence needed on pitch organisation due to some issue and what we saw was a distinct lack of leadership in the defence on the pitch. I am not blaming Maguire for that either, I am just saying that I am not sure the evidence supports your claim because to me what I see is that our defence is good when the game plan works. However, when things happen on the pitch which requires on-pitch leadership our defence has issues (that's my opinion).

Yet Smalling has more league titles than Maguire... ok. This is not even me saying he is better than Maguire, but again you have made a claim here that the evidence doesn't support (Smalling being an atrocious CB for a dominant side). Unless you think United wasn't a dominant side when it won the PL with Smalling at CB?

 

[Ekeke]

Can't believe the stick this guy gets here after every goal we concede. I get that some people have agenda's against players like Pogba and the pre 2020 version of Martial, but Maguire?
Granted he is not perfect and yes obviously we overpaid for him but how is that his fault?
The guy played 49 times for us this season. He is the most reliable CB we have had for the last decade by a country mile. The guy is a born leader, fantastic in the air, great tackler and scored some very important goals for us yet from reading the cafe you get the feeling he is a slightly better version of Phil Jones. Delighted we've got him, easily top 5 CB's in the league.

Agree, overpaid but a solid CB and one of the better ones in the league

 

[ThinkTank@Cafe]

I'm not sure I agree with you. Both Matic and Maguire are one of the reasons we struggled to deal with effective high pressing e.g vs Southampton
I've also seen little evidence of Maguire organisation of the defence, but I guess because he wears the armband it must be what he is doing. Another example the corner we conceded vs Southampton or the goal we conceded vs Palace when Shaw went off injured (earlier in the season at OT).
There are also other instances where the defence needed on pitch organisation due to some issue and what we saw was a distinct lack of leadership in the defence on the pitch. I am not blaming Maguire for that either, I am just saying that I am not sure the evidence supports your claim because to me what I see is that our defence is good when the game plan works. However, when things happen on the pitch which requires on-pitch leadership our defence has issues (that's my opinion).

Yet Smalling has more league titles than Maguire... ok. This is not even me saying he is better than Maguire, but again you have made a claim here that the evidence doesn't support (Smalling being an atrocious CB for a dominant side). Unless you think United wasn't a dominant side when it won the PL with Smalling at CB?

instead of challenging stats or statements you just shift the focus to players errors Completely ignoring contribution.

Bringing Smalling “league titles” from 2013 as an argument is the epitome of absence of the context. Smalling was a back up; he had Rio and Vida ahead of him.

when Smalling played, he played for the team of stars led by greatest manager of all times. The team that had years of time playing together.

And, if you remember that period well, we played a pretty ugly football under Fergie in his last seasons. One of the reasons for that, we started to struggle with high pressing when Vida and Rio were injured (which happened quite often).

I see nothing but agenda, arrogance and inability to use formal logic in your posts.

 

[Cassidy]

instead of challenging stats or statements you just shift the focus to players errors Completely ignoring contribution.

Bringing Smalling “league titles” from 2013 as an argument is the epitome of absence of the context. Smalling was a back up; he had Rio and Vida ahead of him.

when Smalling played, he played for the team of stars led by greatest manager of all times. The team that had years of time playing together.

And, if you remember that period well, we played a pretty ugly football under Fergie in his last seasons. One of the reasons for that, we started to struggle with high pressing when Vida and Rio were injured (which happened quite often).

I see nothing but agenda, arrogance and inability to use formal logic in your posts.

All you are doing is throwing insults.
I have challenged your statements by telling you that the statistics you provided are inadequate in proving your hypothesis. That is the challenge. I haven't really made many hypotheses of my own, except again to say that I am yet to see evidence of Maguires on pitch defensive leadership.

You spoke about leadership, where is the evidence of the defensive on-pitch leadership? I have provided situations where it was needed and seemed to be absent so do you not think you should provide evidence where this has been displayed? Bear in mind even with this I did not say it was the fault of Maguire...

Yes Smalling was a backup, I'm not sure an atrocious player can play 15 league games for a team who wins the league and not be a hindrance. That is why the evidence is relevant. Remember you used the word atrocious

If you feel you need to throw insults that is fine. I'll leave the conversation there.

Please also point out what my agenda is? Because as far as I can see the only thing I have done is ask you to back up your claims with evidence that supports it, and pointed out where the evidence is insufficient

 

[acnumber9]

Absolute shambles.

 

[TsuWave]

Awful, awful player.

We made him captain too, and will try to justify his fee which means we’re going to be stuck with him for eons, despite him not being good enough

 

[dove]

£80m

 

[slored1]

Dreadful. He dwells on the ball for half an hour, fecking pass it to someone. Not to mention his awful heading at corners.

 

[MyOnlySolskjaer]

Anyone have the clip of him running round in circles to then pass to Chelsea?

 

[Giant Midget]

I don’t get why he holds on to the ball for soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo long, delaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaays the pass, and then plays it sideways slooooooooooooooooooooowly behind the fullback to kill all momentum

 

[MikeUpNorth]

Really bad performance. The opposite of a captain's performance, whatever that is.

 

[11101]

The whole defence was terrible today, mostly because Ole decided to shove them into an unfamiliar formation. Maguire was awful but i don't blame him for it.

 

[FootyGirl88]

He shouldn’t be captain next season and no I’m not being knee jerk, it’s been on my mind for a while.

 

[AFC NimbleThumb]

So what’s he good at this week ladies & gents?

 

[Bobski]

That was as if all the worst things you thought about Maguire's deficiencies came out in one game. He was horrid, couldn't establish physical superiority over Giroud and his game collapsed.

I almost hope he is concussed, because if not that has to be a distressingly worrying performance.

 

[TsuWave]

DDG has been awful, but this guy is up there with him and somehow he gets away with it. Hardly a peep about how awful he is from the BBC.

 

[VP89]

The whole defence was terrible today, mostly because Ole decided to shove them into an unfamiliar formation. Maguire was awful but i don't blame him for it.

He was just as bad, if not worse after we set back in a familiar position.

He was absolute shit today

 

[ManRed]

Only time he gets a shot on target is an OG. How is he captain material is beyond me. Bruno should take the armband next season.