[UNITED ACADEMY]

What a ridiculous post.

All players require other players to help them. There is a reason players build great partnerships. They compliment each other.

Lindelof does not have the attributes to partner Maguire, that is clear. The list of players that cover and compliment each other in every team in the world is never-ending.

I can't get over how daft that comment is. Guess what, C. Ronaldo was pretty awful at helping defensively, so guess what . . He gets put with players that will help and cover for him.

C. Ronaldo is obviously not good enough.

I defo agree. I also never understand why the poster still can't understand your point and end up talking about Maguire & Ronaldo comparison which clearly not the point you are trying to make. At the end of the day, he's one of the best only option out there so let's not pretend there are 10 Van Dijk available out there to sign.

Maguire has attribute to play in here. His partner doesn't compliment his weakness unfortunately. I'm being honest myself, apart from the goal, I thought Maguire didn't do anything wrong but actually performed very well. Kane once again in his pocket.

The goal against Spurs is a team's fault anyway, from Shaw aimed his header to none of our player despite of given he had time & space to think or control the ball to Maguire being caught off positioning in that goal, Bissaka played him onside in the first place, to Lindelof not be able to react quickly to cover Maguire and of course DDG put the big cheery on top of the cake.

 

[Fracture90]

That little hop he makes every time he's coming to a halt is kind of funny.

 

[Bastian]

He's not an outstanding defender by any stretch of the imagination, and he was massively overpriced, but I still like him. He was at fault for the goal - as was Dave - and pace and quick reaction time is something he doesn't have. But aerially he is absolutely dominant, he's good with his feet, and he's a top professional.

We should really stop playing a slow and weak centre back next to him though.

I really hope we sell/loan/release a bunch of defenders and buy one good one before next season. Shame Axel has had an injury nightmare all season.

 

[RUCK4444]

He's not an outstanding defender by any stretch of the imagination, and he was massively overpriced, but I still like him. He was at fault for the goal - as was Dave - and pace and quick reaction time is something he doesn't have. But aerially he is absolutely dominant, he's good with his feet, and he's a top professional.

We should really stop playing a slow and weak centre back next to him though.

I really hope we sell/loan/release a bunch of defenders and buy one good one before next season. Shame Axel has had an injury nightmare all season.

Yeah I’m not massively critical of him for the goal, sure he got done for legs but he’s coming back from a long lay off and his positioning is usually better - however it’s a schoolboy error from Shaw to just head it forward and jog forwards, he effectively creates the quick counter attack from Spurs and effectively wrong foots Maguire. Just a messy goal all round really.

 

[A-man]

Whoscored and its ilk can show some interesting raw data but their interpretation of it into a scoring system is flawed. Did they even credit the Spurs goal as Maguire being dribbled past? Or did not even getting close enough to make a challenge allow him to avoid that stat?

There was another Spurs move a few mins after the goal, Shaw up field, Aurier gets the ball in tons of space on the right, Maguire could go across and put some pressure on the ball but he elected to make for the middle and guard the near post, Cross was cut out at the back so perhaps Maguire made the right decision but relying on a poor ball is asking for trouble.

Edit, Just checked Whoscored out of curiosity and found that Maguire did indeed avoid the dribbled past stat. A bit ridiculous for that situation.

Agree, whoscored stats are very interesting but the overall rating is not always representative. Maguire made a few big mistakes, one cost a goal, but none of them was added to his rating.

 

[Svartzonker]

So many hot takes after a 3 month break of football against a Jose team away.

One mistake and here we are. Some of you guys are just pathetic.

”i rEaLly HaTe hiS fAcE”. Seriously get a grip.

 

[Dr. McBeasty]

Thought he played pretty well overall, just had the one obvious blunder. I do think if Bailly was his partner, he very well could have covered the ground to get over and help prevent the goal. They seem to compliment each other much better than he and Lindelof, though it's still a small sample size.

 

[Fracture90]

So many hot takes after a 3 month break of football against a Jose team away.

One mistake and here we are. Some of you guys are just pathetic.

”i rEaLly HaTe hiS fAcE”. Seriously get a grip.

Mister Top Red, Mister Top Red, but is it not the purpose of a thread like this for all of us to exchange our opinions and stances?

 

[RkkMan]

What a ridiculous post.

All players require other players to help them. There is a reason players build great partnerships. They compliment each other.

Lindelof does not have the attributes to partner Maguire, that is clear. The list of players that cover and compliment each other in every team in the world is never-ending.

I can't get over how daft that comment is. Guess what, C. Ronaldo was pretty awful at helping defensively, so guess what . . He gets put with players that will help and cover for him.

C. Ronaldo is obviously not good enough.

Whats ridiculous is you comparing him to Sanchez. He may have his flaws but he`s a big reason we are joint 3rd for least goals conceded ITL, 2nd for least goals conceded in open play and with the 2nd highest CS in Europe. He`s had rough patches but he`s undoubtedly made our defence better. Put Smalling/Jones in his position and we are back to conceding 54 goals in all comps. He`s had a much bigger impact than the 500k a week man whom Ighalo has more goals than in less than 10 Utd games for sure and he will need to be part of our rebuild going forward whether you like him or not.

 

[RkkMan]

I think Maguire is the best defender in the club and one of the best CBs in the league. But he was pretty poor against Spurs. If you watch the highlights, you can see he was responsible for almost every chance we conceded. This you can’t see in any whoscored stats, where they only count amount of headers, tackles etc (and playing time). A player who wins 10 headers but makes 3 big mistakes will get good scores. This is why he got 7.5 whoscored points but most newspapers gave him 5. He had a poor match and by his standards very poor. I’m not worried about him however. He will come back and improve within a few matches.

What big chances?? Bar the goals Spurs hardly created any clear cut chances with them defending for almost the whole game unless it was from counters which is nothing strange as we were putting bodies forward. He completely marked Kane out of the game and still made some important interceptions. The goal was his only costly moment which was a collective error involving Shaw and De Gea. He was not "poor" as some people are suggesting.

 

[Craig Ward]

What big chances?? Bar the goals Spurs hardly created any clear cut chances with them defending for almost the whole game unless it was from counters which is nothing strange as we were putting bodies forward. He completely marked Kane out of the game and still made some important interceptions. The goal was his only costly moment which was a collective error involving Shaw and De Gea. He was not "poor" as some people are suggesting.

Agree to some degree. He controlled Kane, but that wasnt particularly hard given how Kane played. He wasnt up against a vintage Kane was he.

He done the bare minimum, bar his error for the goal.

He didnt use the ball particularly well either.

He was probably a 6/10 bar his error. His error was a shambolic piece of play which cost us a goal. A top defender doesnt allow that to happen i'm afraid. I marked him as a 4/10.

 

[A-man]

What big chances?? Bar the goals Spurs hardly created any clear cut chances with them defending for almost the whole game unless it was from counters which is nothing strange as we were putting bodies forward. He completely marked Kane out of the game and still made some important interceptions. The goal was his only costly moment which was a collective error involving Shaw and De Gea. He was not "poor" as some people are suggesting.

I never said big chances, those are your words. As you say Spurs hardly got through the the defence. The 3 situations where he should have done much better imo were:
1. The goal
2. Right after the goal there was a situation where a Spurs player (Bergwijn ?) got access to the whole right flank and hit a good cross to Son. I don’t know if Maguire was trying to create an offside trap on his own or what he was doing but he moved in the wrong direction and lost him. He was main responsible for this situation imo.
3. In second half he made some kind of failed late tackle, there was a cross which was saved in last second by by Shaw I think.

I believe that was more or less all chances they got. There are more players who could have done better in those situations but this is Maguire’s thread. I personally think higher of him than to accept those mistakes, they are simply below his standards.

 

[Untd55]

What big chances?? Bar the goals Spurs hardly created any clear cut chances with them defending for almost the whole game unless it was from counters which is nothing strange as we were putting bodies forward. He completely marked Kane out of the game and still made some important interceptions. The goal was his only costly moment which was a collective error involving Shaw and De Gea. He was not "poor" as some people are suggesting.

That was mostly down to Lamela being poor with his final ball, though. There were plenty of chances that he could have set a player through on goal one-on-one.

Son and Kane could have been set through on goal. The Son one, in the first half, should have been a certainty (no way Lindelof would catch him). Son again in the second half; Maguire and Lindelof were poorly positioned, but Lamela made a bad pass. Kane in the first half was another option.

We have to improve there; another team may capitalise on the open space if we continue to defend like that.

 

[bsCallout]

Did you seriously just compare Ronaldo to Harry Maguire? I know i said Maguire fans were deluded but thats ridiculous.

Ronaldo wasn't signed to defend and any flaws he had in his game when he signed were going to improve in time. Not a chance of Maguire ever getting fast or constantly being exposed .

Did you really take that comment as a comparison? How old are you?

Ronaldo was a Fergie signing and it is well known the players were fed up with that side of his game. He never improved it. Instead he was supported and given freedom to do the things he is good at.

Vidic was not fast. Rio covered for him.

Again, as you seem to struggle with nuance, this is not a comparison. It is a demonstration that players ALWAYS rely on other players, no matter how good they are as individuals.

Whats ridiculous is you comparing him to Sanchez. He may have his flaws but he`s a big reason we are joint 3rd for least goals conceded ITL, 2nd for least goals conceded in open play and with the 2nd highest CS in Europe. He`s had rough patches but he`s undoubtedly made our defence better. Put Smalling/Jones in his position and we are back to conceding 54 goals in all comps. He`s had a much bigger impact than the 500k a week man whom Ighalo has more goals than in less than 10 Utd games for sure and he will need to be part of our rebuild going forward whether you like him or not.

Satire?

Or did you genuinely get mixed up with with who said what?

 

[eire-red]

Maguire is quality, probably not his best game against Spurs, but we didn't buy him for his fleet of footedness at the back. He's dominant in the air, and brings some calm and organisation, and the ability to bring the ball from the back.

Ironically, physically and based of attributes alone, Bailly is probably a very good match for Maguire, but is not reliable mentally. The ideal partner for Maguire to me is more of a sweeper type CB, with pace and excellent positioning, who will let Maguire attack the ball and be the aggressor, much like Carvalho was to Terry, or Gomez to Van Dijk when they play together.

 

[Hammondo]

Did you really take that comment as a comparison? How old are you?

Ronaldo was a Fergie signing and it is well known the players were fed up with that side of his game. He never improved it. Instead he was supported and given freedom to do the things he is good at.

Vidic was not fast. Rio covered for him.

Again, as you seem to struggle with nuance, this is not a comparison. It is a demonstration that players ALWAYS rely on other players, no matter how good they are as individuals.


Satire?

Or did you genuinely get mixed up with with who said what?

Vidic read the game and positioned himself FAR better than Maguire.

 

[Berbasbullet]

Vidic read the game and positioned himself FAR better than Maguire.

Do you have any examples of this? I’m genuinely curious because Maguire was very poor for the goal the other day but I think he’s our best defender and clearly the leader the defence needs.

 

[gajender]

Do you have any examples of this? I’m genuinely curious because Maguire was very poor for the goal the other day but I think he’s our best defender and clearly the leader the defence needs.

Are you seriously comparing Vidic and Maguire .

 

[ghaliboy]

He got absolutely rinsed for the goal. Not the first time he and Lindelof have been miles apart when defending an attack as well.

 

[Berbasbullet]

Are you seriously comparing Vidic and Maguire .

Yes, believe it or not.

I’m not saying one is better than the other, I just wanted to see why the poster thought Vidic has loads better positioning? Just curious, I’m not taking any sides here.

 

[bsCallout]

Vidic read the game and positioned himself FAR better than Maguire.

I don't disagree.

Why can no one here understand nuance.

It is NOT A COMPARISON.

Vidic was VVD level.

It makes the point even more clear - EVEN Vidic needed a good CB partner to cover for him.

Maguire needs one too. He is our best CB since Vidic/Rio & he needs a partner to compliment him like they both complimented eachother.

 

[hmchan]

Agree to some degree. He controlled Kane, but that wasnt particularly hard given how Kane played. He wasnt up against a vintage Kane was he.

He done the bare minimum, bar his error for the goal.

He didnt use the ball particularly well either.

He was probably a 6/10 bar his error. His error was a shambolic piece of play which cost us a goal. A top defender doesnt allow that to happen i'm afraid. I marked him as a 4/10.

Smalling kept a vintage Kane in his pocket on several occassions and no one gave him credit.

 

[Fracture90]

My God I'm biased on the matter of course, but only thing Maguire has over Vidic, is that he's better with the ball and he's a more accomplished passer of the ball, all else is a no comparison.

 

[Hammondo]

I don't disagree.

Why can no one here understand nuance.

It is NOT A COMPARISON.

Vidic was VVD level.

It makes the point even more clear - EVEN Vidic needed a good CB partner to cover for him.

Maguire needs one too. He is our best CB since Vidic/Rio & he needs a partner to compliment him like they both complimented eachother.

Maguire isn't standout at anything though.

 

[romufc]

Maguire isn't standout at anything though.

Maguire is one of the best CB in the PL.

 

[roonster09]

Poster 1 - Maguire is not good, he needs players to hide his weakness
Poster 2- That's true for any player, football is a team sport. We had Vidic who needed Rio.
Poster 1 and others - Wow, are you comparing Maguire with Vidic.

fecking hell, every thread goes in the same direction. It's not comparing their abilities, posts are to tell how football is a team game and even the greatest players needed players who complimented their style.

 

[Fracture90]

Maguire is one of the best CB in the PL.

Top3, 5, 10, 20?

 

[romufc]

Top3, 5, 10, 20?

Top 5.

 

[RUCK4444]

Top 5.

Yeah comfortably in the top five. The standard is feckin shocking across the board though.

Not sure why but there is a massive dip in quality centrebacks across Europe. Strikers are having a much easier ride against this crop of central defenders, they probably don't even realise it.

 

[Fracture90]

Top 5.

A bit generous imo.

 

[POF]

Poster 1 - Maguire is not good, he needs players to hide his weakness
Poster 2- That's true for any player, football is a team sport. We had Vidic who needed Rio.
Poster 1 and others - Wow, are you comparing Maguire with Vidic.

fecking hell, every thread goes in the same direction. It's not comparing their abilities, posts are to tell how football is a team game and even the greatest players needed players who complimented their style.

He didn't though did he? Vidic was outstanding next to Jonny Evans who was out of his depth next to pretty much anyone else.

Maguire isn't a good defender. He's extremely immobile and slow on the turn. That was embarrassing the way Bergwijn got past him.

Maguire's strength is his physical strength and being good in the air but generally, United use him to play out from the back. That is the main attribute he adds to the team and (along with his leadership qualities) that's why Ole prefers him over Smalling.

Saying all of the above, Maguire desperately needs a different partner. It wouldn't make him a better defender but would better compensate for his weaknesses.

He needs a defender with more athleticism than Lindelof. I had hoped Lindelof would bulk up during lockdown but watching him concede that corner when Kane knocked him off balance by breathing in his general direction was just another example of his lack of physicality.

 

[romufc]

A bit generous imo.

Ok name me the 5 ahead of him then.

 

[jamesjimmybyrondean]

Top 5.

Who are your top 5 defenders

 

[romufc]

Who are your top 5 defenders

VVD
Maguire
Rudiger
Laporte
Boly

 

[TheReligion]

A bit generous imo.

Name those better?

I'm assuming you'll have VVD and Laporte.

 

[Sweet Square]

First game back after months off, so I wouldn't look to deep into the mistake on Friday.

The biggest issue is he needs another top quality cb to partner with.

 

[jamesjimmybyrondean]

VVD
Maguire
Rudiger
Laporte
Boly

In order? Most would rank Laporte higher though he has rarely played this season

 

[Craig Ward]

Smalling kept a vintage Kane in his pocket on several occassions and no one gave him credit.

Has no relevance to my post whatsoever.

This is a Maguire thread.

Smallings days here are done.

 

[romufc]

In order? Most would rank Laporte higher though he has rarely played this season

Not in order. Maguire is probably 3rd still in order.

 

[romufc]

Has no relevance to my post whatsoever.

This is a Maguire thread.

Smallings days here are done.

This is the caf. If you leave the club and have highlights of good performances, everything is forgotten. The last 6 years where DDG was peppered is a long memory.