In fast paced situations this can be very different to having time to think.
I’m not saying it is the case, it’s definitely not impossible though.
5
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I’m not saying it is the case, it’s definitely not impossible though.
Yeah, agree, Was in fact adding to your point.
I am loving the veiled xenophobia directed at De Gea all in a pathetic attempt to hide Maguire's shitness.
De Gea has been in the UK for years, probably eligible for British citizenship if he decides to go opt for it and has given very long and clear interviews after losses when Captain Fantastic was in hiding. He also never had issues communicating with Rio and Vidic right when he first joined and won the title with them.
When we make jokes about Brexit FC, it's shit like this that makes it real. And yet here we have geniuses discussing this type of idiotic nonsense as if it's common knowledge because some nobody from Maguire's entourage wants to shift the blame.
De Gea has been in the UK for years, probably eligible for British citizenship if he decides to go opt for it and has given very long and clear interviews after losses when Captain Fantastic was in hiding. He also never had issues communicating with Rio and Vidic right when he first joined and won the title with them.
When we make jokes about Brexit FC, it's shit like this that makes it real. And yet here we have geniuses discussing this type of idiotic nonsense as if it's common knowledge because some nobody from Maguire's entourage wants to shift the blame.
If this is aimed at me then you couldn’t be further from accurate. I like Dave a lot, defended him to the hilt on numerous occasions. Think him starting and Maguire not is correct even.
Internal translation can be an issue at pace, I don’t know if it is or not but merry offered it as a potential reasoning for why the alleged communication issue seems massively reduced this season. For what it’s worth I don’t actually think it is the case, either. Hence why my phrasing throughout has been “it’s not impossible”, however improbable it is.
There definitely were communication issues in his early years for what it’s worth, anyone with eyes could see that, but that’s irrelevant to now.
Tbh, just the suggestion is pretty ridiculous but my post was also a bit more generic but maybe I didn't phrase it so.
Also, others - United fans or not - may not be as rational as you and we have also heard previously that our 'old' defence under OGS would have liked an English-speaking keeper. This all says to me that Maguire (because he's been the supposed leader in that defence) is heavy on those Brexit vibes.
Now that's just my impression but everything coming out of his mouth, indirectly or not, confirms my suspicions.
I think the impressions are probably verging on accurate, but I think that Dave’s general more passive nature is probably internally being blamed on his nationality and not, ya know, he’s generally quite a passive guy. A Maguire is used to Kasper Schmeichel (whilst actually Danish with his background he’s basically a Brit) and Jordan Pickford, both of whom never shut up. De Gea is never going to be that regardless of where he plays.
I suspect the use of English is generally intended in a more cultural manner that our keepers are “more commanding” which obviously isn’t true but it’s what’s drummed into football fans over here and has been for decades.
This is why I suggest xenophobia, probably unintentional, because it's clear Dave is a timid guy off the pitch and not a Neuer on it by any means.
As I've been taught/advised at work (and even on this forum), criticise/attack the performance but not the person.
The critique De Gea has received is also not limited to United but he's also not rated in Spain. So they should just say that but all this focus on English because Maguire is not mates with De Gea is just dumb and has hurt Maguire on top of all the other calamities he's had to face.
As usual he's well suited to Southgate's negative low block tactics and that's the only way he'll ever be useful.
We're playing the lowest defensive line in the league currently though.
Saw a comment on Reddit that pretty much sums him up to me -
Should have been a 15/20 million squad player purchase, who may have a run of form starting here and there. That's it. The enormous price tag put him in elite defender territory. Now that's what's expected of him. It's not his fault, he's a product of a leadership team who's recruiting strategy was completely incompetent.
Should have been a 15/20 million squad player purchase, who may have a run of form starting here and there. That's it. The enormous price tag put him in elite defender territory. Now that's what's expected of him. It's not his fault, he's a product of a leadership team who's recruiting strategy was completely incompetent.
Would our history over the last 3/4 years have been any worse with Chris Smalling there? He may go down as the biggest waste of money in Premier League history (fingers crossed Darwin Nunez)
Need I remind you of Kepa Arrizabalaga’s transfer fee.
No I think Harry is deluded to the extreme. A head that size and not a single brain cell in it.
Nah, Maguire didn’t have to endure burning of effigies, boos from opposition fans and the malicious witch hunting from the media. There are plenty of media pundits and journalists still staunchly supporting him.
If anything, opposition fans are more likely to give him applause than to boo him.
Lukaku back to Chelsea says hi
Atleast he is good at defending himself.
This
Spouting the same crap over and over doesn't make it possible. Ddg has been at utd for more than a decade now, why did this magical lack of English not bother his communication when vidic and Rio were our cb's, were they spanish speakers? Why didn't it bother him when smalling, Jones and blind were our cb's, don't think they could speak spanish either. Heck didn't seem to bother maguire when we finished 2nd, but ofcourse the minute the defense wasn't doing well, it was because ddg can't communicate in English.
Fan support is not unconditional and not a 1 way street.
You can’t expect blind support when he has delivered zilch to the point that even his absence from the first team improves results. Not to say his tone deaf interviews, that cup ear celebration, disappearance from interviews after bad defeats and the alleged throwing of his team mates under the bus.
A lot of the “abuse” he has received are of his own doing. He and his pundit supporters have given the critics plenty of ammo to criticise him with, as if his on field performances weren’t enough.
But he is an arrogant plank, a cowardly arrogant plank but arrogant plank nonetheless. Everytime he opens his mouth, it's rarely ever just a generic pr statement, there is always a smug response to go along with what he is expected to say.
DDG has won the premier league once and been player of the year at the club multiple times. Even from a purely footballing perspective, what has Maguire ever done to think that he can criticize DDG, nevermind leak it to the press? Between them, Maguire is more of a liability for the team and would be the first player to be replaced for most fans.
DDG came out after the 4-0 against Brentford and took responsibility. Has Maguire ever done that, even though he is captain? He should have stood next to DDG while that interview was happening.
One other point: this thread was barely inching along before his comments last Wednesday, taking days to fill a page. Posters claiming that some of us have always had it in for Maguire are being disingenous.
Feel sorry for him.
Feels like people have had another day when they wake up from dreams about him.
He flopped but boy I don’t hate him. Let him leave the club and shake hands.
Some just don’t want to do that.
Feels like people have had another day when they wake up from dreams about him.
He flopped but boy I don’t hate him. Let him leave the club and shake hands.
Some just don’t want to do that.
Xenophobia is a very odd read of the criticisms he gets. He just doesn't command a box or his defence like say Schmeichel or VDS did (also both non-English Europeans). Also his rigid policy of sticking to his line is unhelpful.
DDG speaks very well when he fronts the media, which Maguire never does.
This is going off on a derailing tangent though.
This is all assuming Maguire got someone to leak a complaint that he has feck all pace so needs fast players around him to cover his arse, which I am somewhat sceptical of.
Do we know he defo criticized DDG?
My point quite clearly was that people's obsessive hatred of him is boring, weird and unseemly. This thread is highly active regardless of whether he plays or not. People seemingly get a dopamine hit by joining the internet pile on.
Given that he was quick to come out and put a lid on another leak some time ago, his silence now speaks volumes.
That is not how you do PR. If the victim of a false rumour has to go out and refute every such rumour, regardless of how damaging for their reputation, where does it end? Such extreme measures are only taken when it is considered absolutely necessary.
Otherwise footballers would play exactly the game their "enemies" want. Creating drama where in reality such does not exist.
There's alot to unpick here.
A- Maguire is a half decent CB. Sure he lacks the pace to play in a high line, he needs someone to do the thinking for him as he lacks ability to scan what's happening around him and positioning and he's certainly no captain however he's not Phil Jones. The guy is built like a rock which makes him physically imposing, he's good in air, he rarely gives away ball possession (mainly because he plays safe) and on top of that he never gets injured. He'd be a great asset in a team that defends in numbers and plays in a deep line which mean nearly all EPL sides (bar top 6) and Serie A clubs
B- Maguire will always be more noticed then anyone else. He's our captain, he's the most expensive CB in the world and the cornerstone on which England's national team's defence is built upon. We all know that the majority of pundits are pro England and the fact that Maguire is stuck on the bench is bad news for them and the nation. They will keep him relevant.
C- These 'leaks' are definitely coming from Maguire's camp else he would rubbish them. Its also consistent to what he had done prior with his agent telling Rio to back off
D- Its within Maguire's interest to up the pressure. Players who stay silent while sitting on the bench ends up like VDB or Phil Jones. Maguire is too big for that (England int, United captain, most expensive defender etc). There's no such thing as bad publicity and if we're dead set in not giving him first team football then its only plausible for him to stink the whole place up until the club sells him for next to nothing. That (+B) has its own set of consequences as the more he or his mates in the media engage into this tactic, the more he'll piss fans off who will turn on him more. No one gives a feck about what a reserve player think especially one who had proved himself to be a big waste of money.
E- United supporters are United supporters not this or that player supporters. Actually United's decline is partly down to us protecting players far too much (Jones, Shaw, Lingard, Welback etc)
Conclusion - Maguire needs to leave and we need to sell him ASAP. Else this will end up badly (more leaks, more media scrutiny, every defeat being blamed for us not playing Maguire etc).
A- Maguire is a half decent CB. Sure he lacks the pace to play in a high line, he needs someone to do the thinking for him as he lacks ability to scan what's happening around him and positioning and he's certainly no captain however he's not Phil Jones. The guy is built like a rock which makes him physically imposing, he's good in air, he rarely gives away ball possession (mainly because he plays safe) and on top of that he never gets injured. He'd be a great asset in a team that defends in numbers and plays in a deep line which mean nearly all EPL sides (bar top 6) and Serie A clubs
B- Maguire will always be more noticed then anyone else. He's our captain, he's the most expensive CB in the world and the cornerstone on which England's national team's defence is built upon. We all know that the majority of pundits are pro England and the fact that Maguire is stuck on the bench is bad news for them and the nation. They will keep him relevant.
C- These 'leaks' are definitely coming from Maguire's camp else he would rubbish them. Its also consistent to what he had done prior with his agent telling Rio to back off
D- Its within Maguire's interest to up the pressure. Players who stay silent while sitting on the bench ends up like VDB or Phil Jones. Maguire is too big for that (England int, United captain, most expensive defender etc). There's no such thing as bad publicity and if we're dead set in not giving him first team football then its only plausible for him to stink the whole place up until the club sells him for next to nothing. That (+B) has its own set of consequences as the more he or his mates in the media engage into this tactic, the more he'll piss fans off who will turn on him more. No one gives a feck about what a reserve player think especially one who had proved himself to be a big waste of money.
E- United supporters are United supporters not this or that player supporters. Actually United's decline is partly down to us protecting players far too much (Jones, Shaw, Lingard, Welback etc)
Conclusion - Maguire needs to leave and we need to sell him ASAP. Else this will end up badly (more leaks, more media scrutiny, every defeat being blamed for us not playing Maguire etc).
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Such rumour has grown too big and had cut too deep for him to ignore. He should have come out and rubbished it. Also no one believes this 'don't follow the media' nonsense especially after his agent told Rio to back off
How do you measure 'too big' or 'too deep'? We've seen far more damaging rumours from "sources close to xxx" which have gone unaddressed. The only thing that matters for Maguire is if his teammates and manager believe in the rumours, and if that has been addressed behind the scenes. And I'm sure it has been.
And this is the problem with squashing rumours in the media.
All it takes is for you to do it once and failure to squash every rumour thereafter makes said rumour automatically true.
It would be never ending.
Most media outlets spoke about it and it involved criticism towards teammates which is bad enough as a player but is terrible as a captain. Maguire should have stepped in on it. His PR team would have surely warned him about it.
Interesting observation from Barney Ronay (who is no player-basher) about the Italy defeat;
And thirdly, yes, we need to talk about Harry Maguire, who made no obvious mistakes, but was helped in doing so by passing the danger on to another part of the pitch. From the moment an early ball disappeared over Maguire’s head, forcing him to turn like a bog-ridden tractor and chase Giacomo Raspadori, he dropped that little bit deeper. Maguire has a habit of this, present in the odd backward step or just the angle of his body.
For a while it was a puzzle why England’s midfield looked so exposed, with something oddly familiar about Bellingham and Rice’s panicky state of exertion. It clicked before half-time. That’s what they looked like: like Fred and Scott McTominay, late Solskjaer era. This was referred pain, space opened up by a backline playing off the back foot. The gains of having a quicker, more mobile centre back must be obvious, whatever Maguire’s heading ability (and this is not 1986).
Southgate’s England achieve Total Mediocrity at worst possible moment | England | The Guardian
And thirdly, yes, we need to talk about Harry Maguire, who made no obvious mistakes, but was helped in doing so by passing the danger on to another part of the pitch. From the moment an early ball disappeared over Maguire’s head, forcing him to turn like a bog-ridden tractor and chase Giacomo Raspadori, he dropped that little bit deeper. Maguire has a habit of this, present in the odd backward step or just the angle of his body.
For a while it was a puzzle why England’s midfield looked so exposed, with something oddly familiar about Bellingham and Rice’s panicky state of exertion. It clicked before half-time. That’s what they looked like: like Fred and Scott McTominay, late Solskjaer era. This was referred pain, space opened up by a backline playing off the back foot. The gains of having a quicker, more mobile centre back must be obvious, whatever Maguire’s heading ability (and this is not 1986).
Southgate’s England achieve Total Mediocrity at worst possible moment | England | The Guardian
Don’t overcomplicate football — they only need to communicate directions, whenever one of them is going to pick a player etc. To think that De Gea isn’t able to communicate like 50 basic words in English fast enough is a bit absurd.
Reading through and posters telling the need for United fans to protect him, question is what do we protect him with? He's not performing for us but At least with Becks he was performing for us and we could use that as leverage.
Can't recall any pundit that have been critical of his performance aside from maybe Roy Keane and that was quite some time ago.
I fundamentally disagree. Public figures should not address every bad rumour or media article just because it creates a negative public perception for them. 99% of the cases when such are addressed, the problem deepens. People will always say "he is on the defensive because he is in the wrong". In my opinion, and experience, ignoring bad press is the best course of action.
How many articles we've seen about our managers treating players/staff/whoever badly? How many of them have been addressed by the managers?
Same with every manager of every club.
And don't get me started on directors and owners...
Seriously?
Beckham came off the back of all that world cup shite and was a major part in Utd winning 3 trophies the following year. He came second to Rivaldo for world player of the year, he should probably have won it. For the next 3/4 years he was one of the best footballers in the world. He won everybody around because of how he played, nobody gave a shit about anything else.
Maguire has gone to two tournaments witth England got to a semi final and a final and has been very poor since the whole Greece thing. Even worse since the Euro finals. I am really not sure about his ability to put his detractors in their place by performing to the highest level on the pitch. He might get some confidence back and do it to some extent at another club, but it won't be at Utd and certainly won't be in anywhere near the fashion that Beckham did it.
Interesting, wouldn't ve suprising if he gas thus inclination given his lack of pace and agility
@JPRouve they're finally starting to pick up on it.
Maguire had to drop back as Saka wasn’t running back to support his defenders. This isn’t Sakas fault as he isn’t an out and out left wing back, but to say Maguire should have stayed higher up the pitch when time and time again he had to position his body in such a way to defend against two runners is slightly unfair. You can’t defend that way high up the pitch as there is far too much space to run into behind a high line.
Maguire will untimely leave Manchester United in the next couple of windows and as a club I think we will be better for it but it seems that people are now looking for reasons to bash him. I heard one reporter say yesterday, that although Maguire didn’t do anything wrong its clear that he didn’t have a great game. No mention of Walker who for me was awful
This is the Twitter generation in a nutshell. Post a random clip of a ‘mistake’ and put a load of laughing faces to coherence people into believing what they want. Every player makes mistakes, you could literally make a compilation of errors for every player but Maguire has just been focussed on.
In this clip that isn’t even bad defending btw.He knows the striker is still behind him and it’s better to be safe than sorry.
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