£30 million in 2002 is about £51m today. That's just pound's value accounting for inflation. Football market rates are a bit different of course.
Harry Maguire | Signed
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran hold a long overdue conversation about United's awful league form with 1 win in 7. They discuss a disappointing draw at Bournemouth, a not so disappointing draw against Liverpool and a crushing defeat at Chelsea - Is time nearly over for Erik Ten Hag?
Then in a special second half of the pod, Nik welcomes Natalie ( https://twitter.com/natalie_17) to discuss the fortunes of Manchester United Women as they booked a place in the FA Cup Final after a historic first ever win vs. Chelsea.
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Hope it's done before Ole and the team fly out for pre-season. Need him and Lindelof to forge a partnership as quick and as good as possible. We can leave Rojo and Darmian behind for the scraps. I wonder how Tuanzebe sees this though, perhaps he will go to Villa for another year's loan
While we wait...
Money is irrelevant if the transfer works out for the most part.
Imagine we signed him for £7 million, if ended up being shit we would still question why we bought him. If we spent £150 million on him and he turned into the English Van Dijk then we'd say it was worth every penny. Point is, we should have signed Van Dijk.
Imagine we signed him for £7 million, if ended up being shit we would still question why we bought him. If we spent £150 million on him and he turned into the English Van Dijk then we'd say it was worth every penny. Point is, we should have signed Van Dijk.
Based on our transfer business the last 6 seasons I think you could make a very strong case that our scouts are in fact morons
Well that was exactly my point.
VVD today would be 150m or something. Rio would be closer to 200m if you translate what we paid for him to todays market. That was Neymar money back then.
I am not saying that Maguire will be as good, most likely not. But if he is available in TODAY´s market for 75m you cant compare it to what Pool paid for VVD. You need to compare it to todays market. Burnley are asking for 40m plus for Tarkowski for example. Today. Thats more of a relevant comparison.
1) What is that based on?
2) That's just a guess and even so you're potentially causing an issue with the wage structure, which is more costly
3) I'm specifically talking about the players you mentioned. None of them are clearly better than Maguire. That's nonsense
4) We are talking about Maguire. He's already PL proven
5) None of those players are considered WC. They are young talented CBs with potential. They haven't proven anything.
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I hope he'll go on tour and show enough good things to finally push out Jones or Rojo from the team, once and for all.
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Well, if hes going to cost 5 times as much as them, he'd better
You think there has been a huge inflation since Liverpool signed VVD? I mean I'm not going to claim to know the exact level of Inflation, but the facts are that Bayern and Real have signed CBs for (I'm assuming) their starting XI this summer and the record still stands at what Liverpool paid for VVD. If rumours are to believed then even de Ligt won't break it.
I think he meant Tuanzebe
If De Ligt was at a prem club he'd be moving for over £100m, its not about what the players is worth anymore its about the financial might of the selling club
Neymar was sold for €220 mil in 17/18, Mbappe was a meagre €135 mil in 18/19. Is Mbappe €85 mil shitter than Neymar? Nope.
The bundesliga better watch out next season because Bayern have just signed a player who was only €4.5 mil cheaper than VVD was last season. We might as well give Hernandez the defender of the year award right now. Nope.
In the same season Neymar cost less than Bale, €30 mil less in fact. History tells us that Bale became the better player. Once again, nope. And Pogba is half the player Neymar is because he cost half the price when they both moved two years back? Nope nope nope.
Transfer fees mean absolutely feck all nowadays. Clubs don't have to follow inflation when it comes to selling their players.
The bundesliga better watch out next season because Bayern have just signed a player who was only €4.5 mil cheaper than VVD was last season. We might as well give Hernandez the defender of the year award right now. Nope.
In the same season Neymar cost less than Bale, €30 mil less in fact. History tells us that Bale became the better player. Once again, nope. And Pogba is half the player Neymar is because he cost half the price when they both moved two years back? Nope nope nope.
Transfer fees mean absolutely feck all nowadays. Clubs don't have to follow inflation when it comes to selling their players.
I think that the market has inflated quite a bit since then, yes.
But why VVD is worth so much more today is not because of that, its because of his performance at Liverpool.
And its very easy to say that you could see that coming in retrospect. Which is such crap in my opinion.
Liverpool took quite a risk paying that much for VVD. If he had been such a sure thing there would have been plenty of clubs outbidding Liverpool with a way better wage offer. They hit gold on that transfer. It happens. They also bought Andy Carroll once upon a time for relatively more money and it went south. You cant say that a transfer is a sure thing.
Its the same for Maguire. I dont know how he will do, my argument is just that 75-80m for him is probably a fair transfer fee in todays market.
And De Ligt obviously has an agreement with Ajax to leave to which ever club he prefers for a set amount. Otherwise he would never go for below 100m.
Based on what Jason Burt wrote in the Telegraph our scouts weren't even used by Mourinho with the Portuguese preferring his own independent scouts. Under Moyes it was reported our targets were Thiago, Herrera and Strootman but Moyes couldn't see past Fabregas, Fellaini and Baines. But it's easy to call them morons I guess without knowing the context. City scouts are morons too for giving the thumbs up for Maguire.
Neymar had a buyout clause that Barca never would reneg on. Mbappe did not. Thats the difference. Otherwise I concur.
This is my understanding as well. We have a relatively new scouting network and it has not really been put to the test, since Mourinho wanted to go all Sir Alex and just use his own Mendesian contacts.
Precisely
You know what I’ve just finished watching this video and I say sign him for 70 and not a penny more. The simple fact he switches the ball to opposite flanks is very refreshing and something smalling never attempts. Still a bit disappointed we always have to overpay for every single transfer.
Since Klopp took over Liverpool's transfers seem very calculated and wide ranging. Sure VVD was a gamble, but if they weren't convinced he was special (for them) then they wouldn't have persisted or spend as much as they did.
Or put another way: if paying that kind of money was normal business then more clubs would do it. But in reality Maguire's neighbours will be de Ligt, Hernandez and VVD.
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I'm glad Smalling doesn't try, it would end badly.
One of our biggest defensive problems last season was set pieces and defending crosses. We had DDG who’s hesitant to leave the goal line, then it was Young and Mata/Lingard who didn’t defend their flank properly. On top of that we had Matic who was pedestrian.
IMO our biggest offensive problem was the build up from our defensive players. Our only CB who where comfortable with the ball to his feet and who could find players between the lines was Lindelöf. The rest was shit to put it mildly.
Another thing that’s going unnoticed is our lack of leadership. Viggo had his moments but overall he wasn’t vocal enough and he needs to work on his authority. When things went south we had almost eleven Boy Scouts out there trying to escape blame and nobody took responsibility. It was, once again to put it mildly, so bad that it was embarrassing to watch.
Harry Maguire is criminally underrated on this forum. I don’t understand why.
IMO he’s a great player who will immediately strengthen our defensive and make us so much better. A beast in the air. Strong and physical. Great feet’s and a good passer from the back. And from what I can see he seems to have leadership ability inside him and is not afraid to be vocal.
Last thing to remember. He’s British and from what I know he’s from the north west area. He’s part of the NT and familiar with many of our players. He will probably immediately fit in and become a valuable member of our first team. That is worth a lot.
Those of you who want to buy non British players need to remember that it take time to adapt to the PL. Remember Vidic.
Umtiti, Upamecano, Anderson. KK and so on are all great players but they will all need time to adapt the culture, the climate and the PL. United don’t have that luxury this season. We need instant results to feel comfortable with OGS and his new squad.
As mention I think 75+5 (or 10) will do it. Ole needs stability from the go so let’s keep our fingers crossed.
IMO our biggest offensive problem was the build up from our defensive players. Our only CB who where comfortable with the ball to his feet and who could find players between the lines was Lindelöf. The rest was shit to put it mildly.
Another thing that’s going unnoticed is our lack of leadership. Viggo had his moments but overall he wasn’t vocal enough and he needs to work on his authority. When things went south we had almost eleven Boy Scouts out there trying to escape blame and nobody took responsibility. It was, once again to put it mildly, so bad that it was embarrassing to watch.
Harry Maguire is criminally underrated on this forum. I don’t understand why.
IMO he’s a great player who will immediately strengthen our defensive and make us so much better. A beast in the air. Strong and physical. Great feet’s and a good passer from the back. And from what I can see he seems to have leadership ability inside him and is not afraid to be vocal.
Last thing to remember. He’s British and from what I know he’s from the north west area. He’s part of the NT and familiar with many of our players. He will probably immediately fit in and become a valuable member of our first team. That is worth a lot.
Those of you who want to buy non British players need to remember that it take time to adapt to the PL. Remember Vidic.
Umtiti, Upamecano, Anderson. KK and so on are all great players but they will all need time to adapt the culture, the climate and the PL. United don’t have that luxury this season. We need instant results to feel comfortable with OGS and his new squad.
As mention I think 75+5 (or 10) will do it. Ole needs stability from the go so let’s keep our fingers crossed.
If he wants to join us he’s probably our best bet in the current market and let’s face it, we are desperate. He might well compliment Lindelof pretty well and give us a threat from set pieces too.
Yeah, its about how much we need him. Not how much he is worth on football manager.
And, yeah, the market is pretty poor for defensive talent if he is our only target.
Excellent post. He fits our needs so well and is as low of a risk as you can get. You also left out that he has a solid fitness record and outside of Lindelof and Smalling, our current group are fragile nutters who go in for a bunch of risky challenges.
1) Mainly because many of these clubs tend to sell players for less. Also Konaté, Dias and Eder have release clauses of £89m, £53m and £45m respectfully so all those are achievable for similar or lesser fees.
2) It's a guess based on the fact that many of these players play for smaller clubs and more importantly are on very small contracts. We don't need to offer these players £300k/w to sign them. I'd imagine anything between £80-150k/w depending on the player would be enough to get most of them.
3) You're opinion, I disagree having seen plenty of all the players mentioned (especially the 4 I specifically mentioned).
4) I don't care if a player is PL proven. I just gave you an example of City signing a non-PL-proven cb last season who turned out to be an excellent signing. There are plenty of examples of players performing for one PL club where they looked great and completely flopping at the other PL club (Sanchez, Schneiderlin, Zaha all examples). Frankly I don't know why you restated this point since you added nothing to what you posted originally and just ignored my counter-argument.
5) Both of those players have proven to be among the best defenders in the Serie A and have been a part of teams that conceded very few goals for a number of seasons despite being in a league where Juve and Napoli dominate. They are always praised as being some of the best defenders in the league. As for Upamecano and Konaté, they formed a cb pairing that conceded fewer goals than Bayern Munich or any other team in the Bundesliga and Konaté particularly received major praise. Just because you don't think they're world class doesn't mean others don't.
I've responded to all your concerns but in truth I don't think you care. I believe you've already made your mind up that there are no alternatives to Maguire and that he will be some amazing signing. If he does sign I hope you're right but I'd personally be much happier if we signed any of the above and I think it's a bit ridiculous to suggest none of those I've mentioned would join. Considering we're naturally linked with everyone I think we would have heard something if we had genuinely enquired about any of these players the same way we were clearly chasing de Ligt. I responded to someone claiming nobody mentioned alternatives to Maguire so I listed some. Now it seems people aren't happy with these alternatives being listed.
There's no point talking about how cheap he was 5 years ago. We could've bought Rio from West Ham and not Leeds - we didn't. We could've bought Stam from Willem II and not PSV - we didn't.
What ifs mean nothing right now and if he's the best available CB and improves a really lacklustre part of the team then he's worth every penny.
What ifs mean nothing right now and if he's the best available CB and improves a really lacklustre part of the team then he's worth every penny.
Frankly couldn't care less how much it costs Ed and the Glazers to buy him, especially since it means there'll be less chance of the chuckle brothers playing.
Maybe Maguire also isn't suggested by our scouts then? You can't claim our interest in a player means he's great when our transfer business has been so terrible recently. You give the scouts credit for Maguire but then apparently they have no influence in any of our other signings.
I'm really conflicted with this, and I reckon it's a highly likely transfer to happen. Here is my conflicted views, starting with the negative:
- is Maguire worth 70m? NO
- is Maguire worth 90m? DEFINITELY NO
- could we have got Maguire before he went to Leicester, when he was clearly a good CB with potential? YES
- All of the above really annoy me.
POSTIVES
- Is Maguire good? YES
- Is Maguire better than what we have? YES
- If we're planning on sticking with Lindelöf, which seems to be the case, if Maguire a better partner for him than Smalling? YES. DEFINITELY YES.
So if Maguire comes, I would actually like it. He's quite beastly, he's fairly young, he's daring, he's a goal threat and he can pass the ball. Plus, he would probably be captain within 1month and has actual leadership skills.
What irks me, is for the money involved, he's not world-class and we could have cut out the middle man 1-2 seasons ago and got him when he was still exactly the same player he is NOW. A big lump, with a big heart and leadership qualities. And British.
If money wasn't an option, i'd spend bigger and break Napoli's back for KK. But money is an option and this is probably the best we're gonna get right now given our state. And We DEFINITELY need a new CB who is better than what we have.
Begrudgingly...…...I'd pay it.
- is Maguire worth 70m? NO
- is Maguire worth 90m? DEFINITELY NO
- could we have got Maguire before he went to Leicester, when he was clearly a good CB with potential? YES
- All of the above really annoy me.
POSTIVES
- Is Maguire good? YES
- Is Maguire better than what we have? YES
- If we're planning on sticking with Lindelöf, which seems to be the case, if Maguire a better partner for him than Smalling? YES. DEFINITELY YES.
So if Maguire comes, I would actually like it. He's quite beastly, he's fairly young, he's daring, he's a goal threat and he can pass the ball. Plus, he would probably be captain within 1month and has actual leadership skills.
What irks me, is for the money involved, he's not world-class and we could have cut out the middle man 1-2 seasons ago and got him when he was still exactly the same player he is NOW. A big lump, with a big heart and leadership qualities. And British.
If money wasn't an option, i'd spend bigger and break Napoli's back for KK. But money is an option and this is probably the best we're gonna get right now given our state. And We DEFINITELY need a new CB who is better than what we have.
Begrudgingly...…...I'd pay it.
Very good post.
Maguire would add a lot to our current defence. Will he make us PL-contenders? Probably not. But he would improve us.
I would add to your points that it would enable Lindelof to play RCB, where he is so much better on the ball than on at LCB, which he has to play to accomodate Smalling or Bailly.
Lindelof and Maguire playing at their natural positions would have us having the best ball-playing CB pair in the league.
Then its the pace-issue with that combo, but if you stay in possession of the ball maybe that is a bit overrated to be fair.
I'm really hoping we get this done now.
The ball playing, ariel ability and leadership are all huge factors, and with AWB, Shaw and someone quick next to him, it can work well.
I like the Mitten story about how he's always wanted to play for us too. That's a huge plus.
I think this may stretch on a couple of weeks, but we'll all agree to meet somewhere in the middle.
The ball playing, ariel ability and leadership are all huge factors, and with AWB, Shaw and someone quick next to him, it can work well.
I like the Mitten story about how he's always wanted to play for us too. That's a huge plus.
I think this may stretch on a couple of weeks, but we'll all agree to meet somewhere in the middle.
Haha. You can’t.
Some sense is spoken.
You did indeed!!
So we signing him or what?
It's mostly RedCafe people, who are not exactly representative of the regular United fan.
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