Has hiring Ole permanently made finding a "Sporting Director" more difficult?

[Skills]

A big part of a sporting director/director of football's role is the managerial choices/appointments and by signing a permanent manager already, we've stripped that role from him. After all the head coach will be working under him. Arguably it's the most important part of the job.

I'm guessing that makes the search more difficult as, rather than just hiring the best man available for the job we now need to have someone wanting to work with Ole. It's why we've started to get linked with the likes of Phelan, ex-players who get United etc.

 

[macheda14]

A big part of a sporting director/director of football's role is the managerial choices/appointments and by signing a permanent manager already, we've stripped that role from him. After all the head coach will be working under him. Arguably it's the most important part of the job.

I'm guessing that makes the search more difficult as, rather than just hiring the best man available for the job we now need to have someone wanting to work with Ole. It's why we've started to get linked with the likes of Phelan, ex-players who get United etc.

Nearly 100% of sporting directors are hired with a manager already in place. So... no?

 

[Web of Bissaka]

No

 

[The Nani]

Paul Mitchell would be on a plane tomorrow if we made a proper offer.

The “board” doesn’t want anyone who might have the stones to rock the boat.

 

[Drainy]

Paul Mitchell would be on a plane tomorrow if we made a proper offer.

The “board” doesn’t want anyone who might have the stones to rock the boat.

This is the case, I think.

It would make sense for us to have a scouting comittee that includes the manager but is headed by a technical director who have their own budget and accountabities, but that would mean losing control for the finance guys.

 

[Skills]

This is the case, I think.

It would make sense for us to have a scouting comittee that includes the manager but is headed by a technical director who have their own budget and accountabities, but that would mean losing control for the finance guys.

Actually it would mean losing control for the manager. So you probably wouldn't see the likes of Matic being signed just because that specific manager wanted him, at a long term cost to the club.

The finance guys in any institution will always have the final say though. And that has never changed. Edwards and the Plc refused to sanction players Fergie wanted many time over the years.

 

[Drainy]

Actually it would mean losing control for the manager. So you probably wouldn't see the likes of Matic being signed just because that specific manager wanted him, at a long term cost to the club.

The finance guys in any institution will always have the final say though. And that has never changed. Edwards and the Plc refused to sanction players Fergie wanted many time over the years.

Can't he just take it to the comitee then?

If it's in budget and he can convince the professional appraisers then it shouldn't be a problem..

What would Ed Woodward know about players that the professionals he hired and gave a budget to don't?

 

[Skills]

Can't he just take it to the comitee then?

If it's in budget and he can convince the professional appraisers then it shouldn't be a problem..

What would Ed Woodward know about players that the professionals he hired and gave a budget to don't?

Budgets don't work perfectly. In real organisations - at least those as volatile as football budgets need to moved around. Do you think clubs don't justify record outlays or huge transfers to their CFOs?

For example look at the 25% pay cut for players for missing out on the CL. What if there are players we want to sign who want us to wave that?

In that kind of scenarios it'll be down to the finance guys to sanction that move. It's the case in every organisation

 

[Coops73]

Paul Mitchell would be on a plane tomorrow if we made a proper offer.

The “board” doesn’t want anyone who might have the stones to rock the boat.

I was listening to the United we stand podcast and one of the guys on there claimed a friend of his is a friend of Mitchell’s and had told him that Mitchell and Woody have talked but Mitchell didn’t seem as enthused as you might think he would be.

Not sure of the validity obviously and take it as you will but wouldn’t surprise me to be honest.

 

[Kapardin]

Ole doesn't even figure into this. Woodward, the power mad cnut, loves the set-up he has and wants to continue the model of him and the manager bringing in players. When there were so many flops and loud criticism from all corners about our transfers, he started exploring the possibility of bringing in a rookie yes-man like Rio or Phelan as "Technical Director" while retaining all the power himself. Now even that seems unlikely as he seems damn reluctant to relinquish even the tiniest bit of influence.

Paul Mitchell would be on a plane tomorrow if we made a proper offer.

The “board” doesn’t want anyone who might have the stones to rock the boat.

This in a nutshell. "Board" being Woodward.

 

[Drainy]

Budgets don't work perfectly. In real organisations - at least those as volatile as football budgets need to moved around. Do you think clubs don't justify record outlays or huge transfers to their CFOs?

For example look at the 25% pay cut for players for missing out on the CL. What if there are players we want to sign who want us to wave that?

In that kind of scenarios it'll be down to the finance guys to sanction that move. It's the case in every organisation

That is why you have policy and accountability.

 

[do.ob]

The coach is the most important piece of the puzzle, it's hard to believe in the authority of a DoF if the owners sign one themselves right before him.

 

[captain666]

Ole doesn't even figure into this. Woodward, the power mad cnut, loves the set-up he has and wants to continue the model of him and the manager bringing in players. When there were so many flops and loud criticism from all corners about our transfers, he started exploring the possibility of bringing in a rookie yes-man like Rio or Phelan as "Technical Director" while retaining all the power himself. Now even that seems unlikely as he seems damn reluctant to relinquish even the tiniest bit of influence.



This in a nutshell. "Board" being Woodward.

This is the prime reason that no elite European DoF has shown the slightest interest in becoming a 'yes man' for Woody!

 

[Skills]

The coach is the most important piece of the puzzle, it's hard to believe in the authority of a DoF if the owners sign one themselves right before him.

Yup.

 

[Inigo Montoya]

Paul Mitchell would be on a plane tomorrow if we made a proper offer.

The “board” doesn’t want anyone who might have the stones to rock the boat.

I think this is a good point. But Mitchell has steadfastly refused to comment until the end of the season.

Remember he's not a DOF so Utd would be a massive step up,and one I hardly think he'd refuse if offered. Operative word, 'offered.'

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

Actually it would mean losing control for the manager. So you probably wouldn't see the likes of Matic being signed just because that specific manager wanted him, at a long term cost to the club.

The finance guys in any institution will always have the final say though. And that has never changed. Edwards and the Plc refused to sanction players Fergie wanted many time over the years.

That might be better for us. The specific players that the manager wanted like Matic & Lukaku have been disappointed signing. If we sign Perisic, he probably end up in the same category.

Sometime the finance guy has the right to say to control the club financial. But what pissed me off is that if the finance guys only focusing on getting players that only marketable in selling shirt, sponsors & etc. Which probably another reason why we have stopped getting British players post Fergie.

 

[Pav1878]

Woodward has absolutely f*cked this club.

Not hiring the right manager in LVG, Mourinho and now more than likely OGS, and making business a priority over football.

We as a fanbase should be absolutely fuming over how our club has been run.

We are hanging precariously on a cliff edge at the moment, the next few big decisions need to be correct otherwise we are going to plummet into the abyss whilst our rivals rule for years to come.

Depressing times at Old Trafford.

Woodward out!!

 

[Skills]

That might be better for us. The specific players that the manager wanted like Matic & Lukaku have been disappointed signing. If we sign Perisic, he probably end up in the same category.

Sometime the finance guy has the right to say to control the club financial. But what pissed me off is that if the finance guys only focusing on getting players that only marketable in selling shirt, sponsors & etc. Which probably another reason why we have stopped getting British players post Fergie.

You seriously can't believe this has happened? This is complete and utter bollocks that Mourinho's cult have fabricated.

Look at the club Pogba was most linked to for 2 years before he joined us? Look at who there there manager was at the time.

 

[calodo2003]

The desire to hire a sporting director who will not cause friction or waves because he is a United player who understands the club is paramount to the board / Woodward. They probably don’t want an objective person in that position as that person would have to publicly shine light on how poorly run we are. Having a ‘true Red’ as a sporting director would allow me those who have ineptly fun the club since SAF to continue in their positions thinking they will turn us around.

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

You seriously can't believe this has happened? This is complete and utter bollocks that Mourinho's cult have fabricated.

Look at the club Pogba was most linked to for 2 years before he joined us? Look at who there there manager was at the time.

Which why is pissing me off.

But the manager also needs to take a blame if they are spending lot of money on the wrong players like Lukaku, Matic & Perisic

 

[Skills]

I knew this wasn't happening the moment we went and signed Ole. It seems like the club and the board is firmly up Ole's arse, so when they do actually realise he's shit they won't have the time to hire the right DOF and then also give him the time to hire the right head coach.

 

[Traub]

I knew this wasn't happening the moment we went and signed Ole. It seems like the club and the board is firmly up Ole's arse, so when they do actually realise he's shit they won't have the time to hire the right DOF and then also give him the time to hire the right head coach.

You’ve made the fatal assumption that the Glazers and Ed want a DOF. They don’t and never have.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

I still believe the opinions of Fergie and Gill hold a lot of weight at this club, there's no way Moyes gets appointed without them and there's absolutely no way Ed and the Glazers decided to sack Mourinho and thought "I know who's perfect, that guy from 99 who is managing in Norway & Fergie's ex assistant".
Fergie was behind the hiring of Ole and Phelan and Fergie is also massively against Sporting Directors, he believes that is the manager's job.

So the best they have come up with instead is the transfer board where the manager is but one vote and a veto. It's definitely better than before and should ensure that our transfer policy at least remains roughly the same even if we switch managers. I think for the foreseeable future we'll have to be content with that.

 

[Skills]

I still believe the opinions of Fergie and Gill hold a lot of weight at this club, there's no way Moyes gets appointed without them and there's absolutely no way Ed and the Glazers decided to sack Mourinho and thought "I know who's perfect, that guy from 99 who is managing in Norway & Fergie's ex assistant".
Fergie was behind the hiring of Ole and Phelan and Fergie is also massively against Sporting Directors, he believes that is the manager's job.

So the best they have come up with instead is the transfer board where the manager is but one vote and a veto. It's definitely better than before and should ensure that our transfer policy at least remains roughly the same even if we switch managers. I think for the foreseeable future we'll have to be content with that.

Sadly, I think the same. I also think they're partially responsible at keeping underperforming managers in jobs longer than necessary.

 

[JPRouve]

You’ve made the fatal assumption that the Glazers and Ed want a DOF. They don’t and never have.

I don't think they care about that question one way or the other. There is no reason for them to actively be against it.

 

[Mr Anderson]

If anything, having Ole makes it easy to implement a sporting director on 2 fronts - as Ole is not going to put up a fight, but he also does need the help.

Managers come and go - sporting directors tend to be separate to results on the pitch, measured more in value for money signings so that isn’t a major concern either.

Issue we have is board clearly don’t want one in, as Woodward pretends we have money to spend when it’s clear we don’t or unwilling to.

 

[Skills]

If anything, having Ole makes it easy to implement a sporting director on 2 fronts - as Ole is not going to put up a fight, but he also does need the help.

Managers come and go - sporting directors tend to be separate to results on the pitch, measured more in value for money signings so that isn’t a major concern either.

Issue we have is board clearly don’t want one in, as Woodward pretends we have money to spend when it’s clear we don’t or unwilling to.

We do have money to spend and we have spent a feckload of it already. We've got the second most expensive squad in the country.

 

[sunama]

Ole doesn't even figure into this. Woodward, the power mad cnut, loves the set-up he has and wants to continue the model of him and the manager bringing in players. When there were so many flops and loud criticism from all corners about our transfers, he started exploring the possibility of bringing in a rookie yes-man like Rio or Phelan as "Technical Director" while retaining all the power himself. Now even that seems unlikely as he seems damn reluctant to relinquish even the tiniest bit of influence.

Correct.

This is the prime reason that no elite European DoF has shown the slightest interest in becoming a 'yes man' for Woody!

Agreed.

So, the answer to the question is no. The person holding back the idea of a DoF, is Woodward...not Ole.
And this is the reason why I want Woodward gone. While he is here, we won't compete for the league title. What Jose did (to get 2nd) in the situation he was in, was a minor miracle.
You can see that other managers (Moyes, Ole, LVG) are getting 4th-7th place finishes.

 

[JPRouve]

We do have money to spend and we have spent a feckload of it already. We've got the second most expensive squad in the country.

People only think that you spend when they see the big figures mentioned on Skysport. They don't seem to care about the +300m spent on wages or the fact that we actually spend around 160m in player registration fees every year.

 

[pascell]

IF we wanted a sporting director, we'd have one but we're not looking for one.

 

[Revaulx]

I don't think they care about that question one way or the other. There is no reason for them to actively be against it.

Glazers: agreed.

Woodward: not so sure. I think he enjoys acting all Billy Big Bollocks with agents etc. too much to give it up.

 

[Pexbo]

IF we wanted a sporting director, we'd have one but we're not looking for one.

Is correct. It was always PR and nothing more.

 

[JPRouve]

Glazers: agreed.

Woodward: not so sure. I think he enjoys acting all Billy Big Bollocks with agents etc. too much to give it up.

A DOF changes nothing for Woodward, he will still be the CEO, still have seniority on everyone and he is the one controlling the DOF's fate because he is ultimately the main figure when it comes to firing and hiring.

My theory is based on their own PR, United is a club that traditionally has no one between the manager and the CEO/board, it's something that has become a sort of fairytale in football circles and the Glazers/Woodward are afraid of the backlash if they go in the opposite direction and don't succeed immediately. It's a lot easier to play the nostalgia card and claim that you are big on tradition and that at United the manager is the "boss".

 

[wolvored]

The fact is Woody and the Glazers only look at the bottom line. Since the last year of Mourinho they are trying to keep spending down as the outlay of the VG and Mourinho years didnt result in making us top of the pile again. Bringing in a DOF would mean the DOF would identify we need more than buying 2/ 3 players a season to get back to the standard of City and Liverpool. They simply are no longer willing to fund this, and this is shown by extending the likes of Mata and Jones contracts as a cheaper option.

 

[JPRouve]

The fact is Woody and the Glazers only look at the bottom line. Since the last year of Mourinho they are trying to keep spending down as the outlay of the VG and Mourinho years didnt result in making us top of the pile again. Bringing in a DOF would mean the DOF would identify we need more than buying 2/ 3 players a season to get back to the standard of City and Liverpool. They simply are no longer willing to fund this, and this is shown by extending the likes of Mata and Jones contracts as a cheaper option.

Because we don't have more money, we currently are at the limit due to Mourinho's year.

 

[Chesterlestreet]

Very likely, yes.

United have had at least a couple of obvious opportunities to change things post-SAF: after the Moyes fiasco, the club could have gone for the DOF model and then hired Van Gaal (who was used to said model).

Mourinho was a bit different, in the sense that he probably relished precisely the chance to lord it as an old school British style manager. But when that turned to shite, there was another - obvious - opportunity: hire an interim (Ole) and spend the rest of the season seeking out the best DOF candidate.

We all know what happened. Woodward seems reluctant to make fundamental changes with regard to the structure. The model is still a traditional British one. The manager has the last word on anything football related. Ole has said precisely this himself (if not in those exact words).

 

[elmo]

Can't he just take it to the comitee then?

If it's in budget and he can convince the professional appraisers then it shouldn't be a problem..

What would Ed Woodward know about players that the professionals he hired and gave a budget to don't?

Their marketability

 

[do.ob]

A DOF changes nothing for Woodward, he will still be the CEO, still have seniority on everyone and he is the one controlling the DOF's fate because he is ultimately the main figure when it comes to firing and hiring.

My theory is based on their own PR, United is a club that traditionally has no one between the manager and the CEO/board, it's something that has become a sort of fairytale in football circles and the Glazers/Woodward are afraid of the backlash if they go in the opposite direction and don't succeed immediately. It's a lot easier to play the nostalgia card and claim that you are big on tradition and that at United the manager is the "boss".

In the second paragraph you basically say that the Glazers and Woordward stick to a dysfunctional setup, because of PR reasons and in the first you argue that Woodward could just bring in a DoF and overrule him, which - unless that guy is a complete puppet - would find its way into the public and create bad PR?

I think a proper DoF would definitely make some difference as it's hard to justify bringing in an expert on a 7 figure wage and then proceed to undercut and ignore him.

I also don't think PR is the reason for United keeping the status quo alive. For one no one has any illusion about the club being run "proper" and secondly it's the Glazer's money that's being burned with all these bad decisions. There has to be some other logic to justify it.

 

[afrocentricity]

Honestly some of the posts in here wouldn't look out of place on Infowars

 

[Chesterlestreet]

Talking about PR, it's perhaps worth noting that United haven't been scrutinized all that much with regard to the structure until quite recently.

By the media, I mean. When Ole was appointed, I said that if he fails and gets sacked, the focus will be on Woodward more than on him. LVG and Mourinho were high-profile figures with impressive resumes. Ole is a different kettle altogether. If he fails, the very decision to hire him in the first place will be questioned (again - by the media) much more savagely.

What I'm saying is - I suppose - that Ole will turn out to be much more of a PR fiasco than any of his predecessors: everyone will be questioning what the feck United are up to, and - very likely - why the feck we haven't taken steps to modernize the structure.