Has it become obvious now that we can’t challenge for the league?

Plant0x84

Full Member
Joined
Jun 23, 2020
Messages
958
To answer OP, Absolutely not. We’ve played 7 games. We’ve only lost one. Admittedly it’s a game we probably shouldn’t have lost, but frankly I am more disappointed with the Everton draw.

Sir Alex always used to say ‘be up there or thereabouts at Christmas’ and I think that’s still reasonable. I feel the next 8-10 games could be decisive, so let’s see where we are going into December.
 

VP89

Pogba's biggest fan
Joined
Dec 6, 2015
Messages
21,082
To answer OP, Absolutely not. We’ve played 7 games. We’ve only lost one. Admittedly it’s a game we probably shouldn’t have lost, but frankly I am more disappointed with the Everton draw.

Sir Alex always used to say ‘be up there or thereabouts at Christmas’ and I think that’s still reasonable. I feel the next 8-10 games could be decisive, so let’s see where we are going into December.
That worked under SAF, that too at a time where it was always a 2 horse race (either Arsenal, Chelsea or City would be our nearest contenders). Here it's a 3 way race excluding us with a manager who isn't near SAF's ability, who has dropped stupid, stupid points to mid table sides whilst the teams above him have all played each other.

He can't sustain a challenge because he drops too many points and makes too many silly mistakes. I don't think we need this season to play out to know that.
 

kthanksbye

Full Member
Joined
Jan 25, 2014
Messages
849
I really wish I shared the enthusiasm and optimism of some of you lot.
I don't know what you are going by when you say things like, "we will go on a run", "we used to lose/draw these games under SAF", "we're just 2 points away from the top", while just watching us play football for 90 mins makes it clear that we are winning games not because of our coaching but despite it. We have a few world class players and a few really good players who will create a goal here and there out of nowhere just because of the sheer quality they possess. Over the course of an entire season, this will not be sustainable.
Guess we'll see where we are by December.
 

Plant0x84

Full Member
Joined
Jun 23, 2020
Messages
958
That worked under SAF, that too at a time where it was always a 2 horse race (either Arsenal, Chelsea or City would be our nearest contenders). Here it's a 3 way race excluding us with a manager who isn't near SAF's ability, who has dropped stupid, stupid points to mid table sides whilst the teams above him have all played each other.

He can't sustain a challenge because he drops too many points and makes too many silly mistakes. I don't think we need this season to play out to know that.
Why is the emphasis on the manager? If we take that goal against Everton as an example, it wasn’t on Ole to attack the corner, it wasn’t Ole who was weak in the tackle, it wasn’t Ole who didn’t run back to defend the breakaway and it wasn’t Ole who left his man unmarked.
The corner was poor, that’s on Bruno. Twice Fred needed to be stronger and take the ball off Gray. He didn’t. Shaw and Lindelof closed down Doucoure without affecting the ball, Varane was amongst 4 players walking back after Everton broke and Townsend was totally unmarked. It was shocking from front to back, and we conceded from our own corner. How is that the managers fault? If your saying set piece coach, or defensive coach possibly, but I fail to see how the manager affects that scenario whether it’s Ole, Kloop or SAF himself. It’s on the players.
Likewise, individual mistakes the likes of which we saw regularly last season is on the player involved. The manager is just an easy target.
 

VP89

Pogba's biggest fan
Joined
Dec 6, 2015
Messages
21,082
Why is the emphasis on the manager? If we take that goal against Everton as an example, it wasn’t on Ole to attack the corner, it wasn’t Ole who was weak in the tackle, it wasn’t Ole who didn’t run back to defend the breakaway and it wasn’t Ole who left his man unmarked.
The corner was poor, that’s on Bruno. Twice Fred needed to be stronger and take the ball off Gray. He didn’t. Shaw and Lindelof closed down Doucoure without affecting the ball, Varane was amongst 4 players walking back after Everton broke and Townsend was totally unmarked. It was shocking from front to back, and we conceded from our own corner. How is that the managers fault? If your saying set piece coach, or defensive coach possibly, but I fail to see how the manager affects that scenario whether it’s Ole, Kloop or SAF himself. It’s on the players.
Likewise, individual mistakes the likes of which we saw regularly last season is on the player involved. The manager is just an easy target.
fecksake, its not rocket science. If the team as a whole is making individual errors - Varane vs Villareal, Fred vs Everton, Maguire vs Villa, etc. All whilst the attack looks completely and utterly disjointed despite having rolls royce talent, the problem is quite clearly with how they're set up to play and how they're coached.

We basically need to improve in a host of areas - defensively, attacking transitions, counter attacks and final third break downs of deep defending oppositions. When there are this many issues to fix, its not down to players, its the manager and coaching staff.
 

bonothom

Full Member
Joined
Aug 27, 2014
Messages
832
We can't because of the manager. His obsession with McFred means 4th place is about the limit.
 

Plant0x84

Full Member
Joined
Jun 23, 2020
Messages
958
fecksake, its not rocket science. If the team as a whole is making individual errors - Varane vs Villareal, Fred vs Everton, Maguire vs Villa, etc. All whilst the attack looks completely and utterly disjointed despite having rolls royce talent, the problem is quite clearly with how they're set up to play and how they're coached.

We basically need to improve in a host of areas - defensively, attacking transitions, counter attacks and final third break downs of deep defending oppositions. When there are this many issues to fix, its not down to players, its the manager and coaching staff.
“Ok lads, Bruno’s on corners as per - try to hit the first defender if you can. Don’t worry about getting back, have a nice little stroll. David will probably save it. If one or two of you can run a bit but don’t worry about getting your foot in, and if they come near you fall over” :rolleyes:
 

VP89

Pogba's biggest fan
Joined
Dec 6, 2015
Messages
21,082
“Ok lads, Bruno’s on corners as per - try to hit the first defender if you can. Don’t worry about getting back, have a nice little stroll. David will probably save it. If one or two of you can run a bit but don’t worry about getting your foot in, and if they come near you fall over” :rolleyes:
What are you even saying? Everton had us at 6s and 7s and were missing DCL and Richarlidson FFS. We were lucky at the end they squared a silly forward pass to be offside or we'd be finished. Look at the performances - even Steve Bruce can point to Newcastle goals conceded and say "oh but he made this mistake, and this guy made that mistake". That's what coaching is for :lol:
 

Foxbatt

Full Member
Joined
Oct 21, 2013
Messages
12,215
What are you even saying? Everton had us at 6s and 7s and were missing DCL and Richarlidson FFS. We were lucky at the end they squared a silly forward pass to be offside or we'd be finished. Look at the performances - even Steve Bruce can point to Newcastle goals conceded and say "oh but he made this mistake, and this guy made that mistake". That's what coaching is for :lol:
So in reality Arteta is a great manager and so was Frank Lampard and Jose and LVG.
It's not Jose's or LVG's fault we didn't win the PL and CL. It's the individual player's fault. :D
 

SouthernRedDev

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Aug 30, 2021
Messages
61
I still think we are a long way off, we have a pretty formidable group of players, but until they learn how to play as a team we will be pretty inconsistent. Im not sure that the time it will take to galvanize as a team can be shortcut. We will waste plenty of points up until that time.
 

Foxbatt

Full Member
Joined
Oct 21, 2013
Messages
12,215
I still think we are a long way off, we have a pretty formidable group of players, but until they learn how to play as a team we will be pretty inconsistent. Im not sure that the time it will take to galvanize as a team can be shortcut. We will waste plenty of points up until that time.
That is a sensible view. To me the issue is that I don't think the current management are simply good enough to win the PL or CL.
 

VP89

Pogba's biggest fan
Joined
Dec 6, 2015
Messages
21,082
So in reality Arteta is a great manager and so was Frank Lampard and Jose and LVG.
It's not Jose's or LVG's fault we didn't win the PL and CL. It's the individual player's fault. :D
Pretty much! Managers are never to blame, every goal is individual errors that's all. Ted Lasso in
 

yumtum

DUX' bumchum
Joined
May 10, 2009
Messages
5,616
Location
Wales
It's why I found it strange that we went of of the Carabao cup with such a whimper, it was probably Ole's only chance at a trophy this season, yet we just didn't seem bothered about it - that arrogance is appalling considering we haven't won anything under his management.

SAF knew his new group had to win a trophy, and that FA Cup win was the first taste for many like Roone and Ronaldo which was vital for them to go on and won the PL/CL, Ole should recognise that with this squad and go all out for any trophy to get them used to the pressure.

Unfortunately if this squad (or management) hasn't got the mentality to win a "lesser" trophy like the Carabao Cup, then we'll never have the mental fortitude to go all the way in the PL/CL as witnessed in the Europa against Villareal, and all the other finals/semi finals under Ole.