Has it become obvious now that we can’t challenge for the league?

Doracle

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Nah I wasn’t being entirely serious. But I don’t think top 4 is a certainty for us at all, even though so far I don’t particularly see any strong challengers for the position either.

That being said, I’m quoting myself if Brighton do beat us to 4th place…
Yeah, we’ve had two years of the same whining, accompanied by two years where we’ve matched or exceeded realistic expectations in the league, have been fun to watch and have been building a solid squad. If Ole finishes 3rd/4th this season with 70-75 points, then I’ll be disappointed and serious questions would need to be asked. However, the idea he’s under pressure currently is utterly ludicrous. It just feels like we’ve got so many spoilt fans who expect to be winning every single match.
 

wilkie1990

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Got to laugh at this really, we are 7 games in to the season and 2 points from the top while going through a relatively rough patch. Of course we CAN challenge, we ARE challenging right now and WILL continue to challenge.
 

ayushreddevil9

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Got to laugh at this really, we are 7 games in to the season and 2 points from the top while going through a relatively rough patch. Of course we CAN challenge, we ARE challenging right now and WILL continue to challenge.
Yeah I am laughing at this.

Chelsea have played Liverpool, Arsenal and Spurs and City.

City have played Spurs, Chelsea and Liverpool.

Utd have played zero big games and are 4th.
 

TrustInJanuzaj

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Yeah I am laughing at this.

Chelsea have played Liverpool, Arsenal and Spurs and City.

City have played Spurs, Chelsea and Liverpool.

Utd have played zero big games and are 4th.
In isolation, this means very little. All this means is Utd will have to win the big games and go on a good run which is always the case for title challengers anyway. Do I think we will do it, probably not at the moment, but I do think we are capable and if we turn over a couple of big teams the narrative completely switches.
 

ayushreddevil9

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Yeah, we’ve had two years of the same whining, accompanied by two years where we’ve matched or exceeded realistic expectations in the league, have been fun to watch and have been building a solid squad. If Ole finishes 3rd/4th this season with 70-75 points, then I’ll be disappointed and serious questions would need to be asked. However, the idea he’s under pressure currently is utterly ludicrous. It just feels like we’ve got so many spoilt fans who expect to be winning every single match.
Ole has been incharge for like 2.5 years now and yet we have same weakness we had a couple of seasons ago.

Expecting a title challenge and a trophy is realistic IMO. Our performances have degraded and got scrappy while our squad has improved significantly.
 

ayushreddevil9

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In isolation, this means very little. All this means is Utd will have to win the big games and go on a good run which is always the case for title challengers anyway. Do I think we will do it, probably not at the moment, but I do think we are capable and if we turn over a couple of big teams the narrative completely switches.
Obviously but given how we are struggling against midtable sides, it's difficult to see us win against the top teams.

As always, would love to be proven wrong.
 

OleBoiii

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So let me get this straight:

1. We have more points than we did at this stage last season.
2. We have a stronger team than we did last season.
3. The reigning champions look weaker(and defending a title is difficult regardless).
4. Most of the games so far belong to the most notoriously volatile part of the season.
5. We are just 2 points behind the leaders.
6. We're still waiting for Sancho to settle and Rashford to return.

Yet despite all this, it has become obvious that we can't even challenge? Like, not even win the damn thing, just challenge.

:houllier:
 

TrustInJanuzaj

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Obviously but given how we are struggling against midtable sides, it's difficult to see us win against the top teams.

As always, would love to be proven wrong.
I just don't think it always works like that. The big games are often completely different in terms of approach and mentality. We need to see how we actually get on in these games before we fully write the season off. I mean our next couple of months will really tell us where we are at.
 

Lash

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In isolation, this means very little. All this means is Utd will have to win the big games and go on a good run which is always the case for title challengers anyway. Do I think we will do it, probably not at the moment, but I do think we are capable and if we turn over a couple of big teams the narrative completely switches.
Which we have actually done in recent seasons.
 

romufc

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Got to laugh at this really, we are 7 games in to the season and 2 points from the top while going through a relatively rough patch. Of course we CAN challenge, we ARE challenging right now and WILL continue to challenge.
You're the only one laughing mate.

Relatively rough patch? This is actually a good patch for Ole. Last season was the same crap, get dumped out the CL, win a few games to keep him in the job but lose games when it matters.

League cup, FA cup, CL, PL, Europa when it matters he loses.
 

Kaos

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So let me get this straight:

1. We have more points than we did at this stage last season.
2. We have a stronger team than we did last season.
3. The reigning champions look weaker(and defending a title is difficult regardless).
4. Most of the games so far belong to the most notoriously volatile part of the season.
5. We are just 2 points behind the leaders.
6. We're still waiting for Sancho to settle and Rashford to return.

Yet despite all this, it has become obvious that we can't even challenge? Like, not even win the damn thing, just challenge.

:houllier:
Liverpool look stronger, Chelsea look stronger, we're still a long way off City's quality. Not to mention all those clubs have world class managers while we're stuck with our Ole Ole Ole I love you and his cereal box coaching badges staff. Of course we're not challengers. The current points tally means little considering our rivals have all played each other and we're out here scraping draws against the likes of Southampton, a depleted Everton and losing to the likes of Villa. I fear the situation will be more sobering over the next month or so when we actually start to pile on the difficult fixtures. I'd reserve a little bit of optimism if we were actually playing well but we aren't, our performances outside of the Leeds one have been tepid and incohesive.

So no, while I admire the optimism displayed by some here we're definitely not title challengers, not until we get a new manager that is.
 

Lash

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That would just portray our team full of game raising personalities.
Yeah, but based one where we currently are points wise, it would help us in confidence and put us as firmly challenging.

I worry more about the level of performances, rather than the results as it stands. Considering most people have decided our whole coaching team is incompetent, to be in the position we're in is pretty good. When the games come thick and fast, our squad should shine through IMO.
 

ayushreddevil9

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Yeah, but based one where we currently are points wise, it would help us in confidence and put us as firmly challenging.

I worry more about the level of performances, rather than the results as it stands. Considering most people have decided our whole coaching team is incompetent, to be in the position we're in is pretty good. When the games come thick and fast, our squad should shine through IMO.
I dont understand. We have had the easiest run in and we're still 4th. How is this position very good? Failed to capitalize on easy fixtures and people are using "2 points from top" as an excuse. Mind boggling.
 

e.cantona

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That's the crux of the issue isn't it?
The fact that we don't have much confidence that United would win those games, which is a must if they want to challenge for the league
Ah.. come on man. It's not obvious we can't challenge, right? We're two points off 1st, 31 games to go. We might not, but it's not obvious..
 

Mark_Barca

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Liverpool look stronger, Chelsea look stronger, we're still a long way off City's quality. Not to mention all those clubs have world class managers while we're stuck with our Ole Ole Ole I love you and his cereal box coaching badges staff. Of course we're not challengers. The current points tally means little considering our rivals have all played each other and we're out here scraping draws against the likes of Southampton, a depleted Everton and losing to the likes of Villa. I fear the situation will be more sobering over the next month or so when we actually start to pile on the difficult fixtures. I'd reserve a little bit of optimism if we were actually playing well but we aren't, our performances outside of the Leeds one have been tepid and incohesive.

So no, while I admire the optimism displayed by some here we're definitely not title challengers, not until we get a new manager that is.
Not sure how Man City are weaker either, have more points than they did after 7 games last season whilst they've played Spurs, Chelsea and Liverpool away. In fact they lost GW 8 last season and dropped 4 more points including at home to WBA in the next 4 fixtures. City look better this season than they did at the start of last season 100%.

Also is 2 points better of for United something to brag about when last season the fixtures included Chelsea, Arsenal and Spurs?

United didn't deserve to win at Wolves either, clear penalty denied and Wolves missed chance after chance. I know many United fans have their head in the sand, but like Barca both clubs will be lucky to win a single trophy between them this season. EL might be the best bet for both!
 

Sandikan

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So let me get this straight:

1. We have more points than we did at this stage last season.
2. We have a stronger team than we did last season.
3. The reigning champions look weaker(and defending a title is difficult regardless).
4. Most of the games so far belong to the most notoriously volatile part of the season.
5. We are just 2 points behind the leaders.
6. We're still waiting for Sancho to settle and Rashford to return.

Yet despite all this, it has become obvious that we can't even challenge? Like, not even win the damn thing, just challenge.

:houllier:
We have a stronger squad looking at the names but we DON'T have a stronger team on the pitch.
Two big wins aside, we've scraped a couple of late wins, held on in a couple of draws, and lost some woeful games.

We're a team of names basically, not a team at this moment in time.

We have played a few second tier teams, but none of the better teams.

Therefore, at this point in time it'd take outrageous optimism to think we'll be competing for anything.

Also, not sure how City look weaker, when they've just beaten Chelsea away, and drawn v Liverpool and absolutely outplayed them first half.
Will we get 4 points from those 2 aways? We'll do amazingly to.
Will City/Liverpool/Chelsea only get 1 point from Everton and Villa homes?!
 

RedRonaldo

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As a team, we are easily the worst among top 4. Individual by individual, we should be one of favourites. Mathematically speaking, we are only 2 points off the top.
 

Raw

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If you directly compare results of each fixture from last season to this season, we're currently 5 points worse off (we beat Southampton A and Villa H last season). All the other games we got the same result as we did last season. Obviously teams change every season but I just thought it was interesting.

Leeds H: Last season 6-2 W, this season 5-1 W
Saints A: 3-2 W, 1-1 D
Wolves A: 2-1 W, 1-0 W
Newcastle H: 3-1 W, 4-1 W
West Ham A: 3-1 W, 2-1 W
Villa H: 2-1 W, 1-0 L
Everton H: 3-3 D, 1-1 D

Really gonna need to improve our record against the top teams in the run coming up. Last seasons results of our next 7 league fixtures:

Leicester A 2-2 D
Liverpool H 2-4 L
Spurs A 3-1 W
City H 0-0 D
Watford A N/A
Chelsea A 0-0 D
Arsenal H 0-1 L

That's a measly 6 points out of 18. Surely we can do better than that this season! By that point we'll have a much clearer idea of where we stand in the title race.
 

Lash

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I dont understand. We have had the easiest run in and we're still 4th. How is this position very good? Failed to capitalize on easy fixtures and people are using "2 points from top" as an excuse. Mind boggling.
Yeah, I won't deny I'd hope we'd have more points, but we're well within touching distance of the top spot. Your view rests on the assumption we won't improve at all throughout the season, which I think we will. You also think that because the other teams have played harder teams, they will steam roll the lower teams, which we know is not the case in the Prem.
 

Siezard

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There's no doubt man utd screw up and drop 5 points against Villa and Everton. But the team is still improving and can only get better.

This season, Man City is without a potent central striker and Liverpool is still the same old stale team.

So the main challenger for the title is Chelsea.
 

Kcocymkcus

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Not a hope in hell of winning the league.

For a team to dominate the league you need to put fear into other teams, we simply don't have that. Haven't for years.
Look at the Ferguson years, teams already had that look in their eyes that they'd lost just walking out the tunnel. Teams don't fear us anymore, they might fear individual players, like Ronaldo, but not the collective.

It's akin to Mike Tyson. Pre Buster Douglas no-one wanted to enter the ring with him. Post Buster Douglas that bubble burst and no-one was afraid anymore.

Old Trafford and United are post Buster Douglas, so we aren't winning the league anytime soon.
 
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Bilbo

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Throwing in the towel after 7 games. When did our fanbase become such a bunch of fannies.

I mean, City have always been clear favourites in my eyes, but that doesn't mean the season has to be written off so early. Enjoy it regardless of what happens, or whats the point
 

AFC NimbleThumb

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If you directly compare results of each fixture from last season to this season, we're currently 5 points worse off (we beat Southampton A and Villa H last season). All the other games we got the same result as we did last season. Obviously teams change every season but I just thought it was interesting.

Leeds H: Last season 6-2 W, this season 5-1 W
Saints A: 3-2 W, 1-1 D
Wolves A: 2-1 W, 1-0 W
Newcastle H: 3-1 W, 4-1 W
West Ham A: 3-1 W, 2-1 W
Villa H: 2-1 W, 1-0 L
Everton H: 3-3 D, 1-1 D

Really gonna need to improve our record against the top teams in the run coming up. Last seasons results of our next 7 league fixtures:

Leicester A 2-2 D
Liverpool H 2-4 L
Spurs A 3-1 W
City H 0-0 D
Watford A N/A
Chelsea A 0-0 D
Arsenal H 0-1 L

That's a measly 6 points out of 18. Surely we can do better than that this season! By that point we'll have a much clearer idea of where we stand in the title race.
But, but Progress. Oh wait.
 

Giggsy13

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Got to laugh at this really, we are 7 games in to the season and 2 points from the top while going through a relatively rough patch. Of course we CAN challenge, we ARE challenging right now and WILL continue to challenge.
5 points dropped at home already to teams you beat if you want a title challenge, 9 league games at a home in a row without keeping a clean sheet despite bringing in Maguire, AWB and Varane, yet you think we’re challenging for the title!:lol::lol::lol:
 

Lash

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If you directly compare results of each fixture from last season to this season, we're currently 5 points worse off (we beat Southampton A and Villa H last season). All the other games we got the same result as we did last season. Obviously teams change every season but I just thought it was interesting.

Leeds H: Last season 6-2 W, this season 5-1 W
Saints A: 3-2 W, 1-1 D
Wolves A: 2-1 W, 1-0 W
Newcastle H: 3-1 W, 4-1 W
West Ham A: 3-1 W, 2-1 W
Villa H: 2-1 W, 1-0 L
Everton H: 3-3 D, 1-1 D

Really gonna need to improve our record against the top teams in the run coming up. Last seasons results of our next 7 league fixtures:

Leicester A 2-2 D
Liverpool H 2-4 L
Spurs A 3-1 W
City H 0-0 D
Watford A N/A
Chelsea A 0-0 D
Arsenal H 0-1 L

That's a measly 6 points out of 18. Surely we can do better than that this season! By that point we'll have a much clearer idea of where we stand in the title race.
Surely this makes zero sense to compare as they were played at completely different times?
 

shaky

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I heard it was "obvious" to the Einsteins on here that we weren't ever making top 4 in Ole's first full season, when we actually ended up finishing 3rd. That was obviously a fluke, according to the experts here again, we'd definitely struggle with making top 4 twice in a row, but then we somehow finished comfortably 2nd.
 

Giggsy13

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I heard it was "obvious" to the Einsteins on here that we weren't ever making top 4 in Ole's first full season, when we actually ended up finishing 3rd. That was obviously a fluke, according to the experts here again, we'd definitely struggle with making top 4 twice in a row, but then we somehow finished comfortably 2nd.
2nd last year because the scousers had an injury crisis and Chelsea waited too long to sack Lampard. Despite the scousers losing their first choice CB partnership and a horrid run of of form at home, they finished 5 points behind us. It doesn’t take Einstein intelligence to figure we were fortunate last season. Based on the quality on display in the Liverpool v city game, we are a few notches below the real title contenders.
 

Luffy

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I heard it was "obvious" to the Einsteins on here that we weren't ever making top 4 in Ole's first full season, when we actually ended up finishing 3rd. That was obviously a fluke, according to the experts here again, we'd definitely struggle with making top 4 twice in a row, but then we somehow finished comfortably 2nd.
I didn't say it in those exact words, but I was sure that we wouldn't challenge for the title proper. Also I was sure we'd win the Europa League or the FA Cup during the initial years of Ole's reign, and he is actually performing poorer than I expected. Now of course, as any reasonable person, I've given up on him, though snapshots of him laughing on the sidelines against Everton keep me fascinated in this silent, ghostly trainwreck of a management.
 

mitchmouse

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Yeah, we’ve had two years of the same whining, accompanied by two years where we’ve matched or exceeded realistic expectations in the league, have been fun to watch and have been building a solid squad. If Ole finishes 3rd/4th this season with 70-75 points, then I’ll be disappointed and serious questions would need to be asked. However, the idea he’s under pressure currently is utterly ludicrous. It just feels like we’ve got so many spoilt fans who expect to be winning every single match.
The problem that's been created is i don't expect us to win anything like every match... I predicted drawing at Southampton and against Everton. I was far from confident of beating Villa (although I thought we could), but if you can't beat Young Boys then, wow... just wow
 

Offsideagain

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I believe the plan was to be 3 or more points ahead at the top of the PL at this stage given the fixtures we have had. Luckily, the others have also dropped points, but with the fixtures coming up and the current form, the only way is down I believe. If somehow we win all the next six games, then we will be back on track, bit the omens aren’t in our favour. Whatever happens, the manager and staff will stay in place as they are relatively cheap compared to many others like Guardiola on his £19m pa.
 

Luffy

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Probably Ole needs the money because he has a lot of mouths to feed, perhaps. His next gig will probably have him parading around with a 'will manage for food' sign hung from his neck.
 

shaky

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2nd last year because the scousers had an injury crisis and Chelsea waited too long to sack Lampard. Despite the scousers losing their first choice CB partnership and a horrid run of of form at home, they finished 5 points behind us. It doesn’t take Einstein intelligence to figure we were fortunate last season. Based on the quality on display in the Liverpool v city game, we are a few notches below the real title contenders.
We took the foot off the pedal with about 10 games to go, still cruised 2nd. We are no worse than Liverpool right now. If we had a home draw v Chelsea with a man advantage, then a home draw v City after being played off the park in the first half, you would say we were terrible, and the results were terrible. Yet somehow, Liverpool look a few notches above us still? Didn't they concede 3 to Brentford last week? You would crucify Ole if that happened to us. I'm not saying Ole is going to lead us to glory, but get some perspective man.
 

Giggsy13

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We took the foot off the pedal with about 10 games to go, still cruised 2nd. We are no worse than Liverpool right now. If we had a home draw v Chelsea with a man advantage, then a home draw v City after being played off the park in the first half, you would say we were terrible, and the results were terrible. Yet somehow, Liverpool look a few notches above us still? Didn't they concede 3 to Brentford last week? You would crucify Ole if that happened to us. I'm not saying Ole is going to lead us to glory, but get some perspective man.
Fair enough, but what I saw on display yesterday were two teams with clear identities and playing styles. We clearly don’t have that as evidenced by the first 7 games, which IMO is unacceptable with Ole being in charge for 3 years. The soft start gave us an opportunity to make a statement instead we’re 2 points from the summit, viewed as a positive by some, but not really when considering the dropped points at home.
 

JoaquinJoaquin

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There's no doubt man utd screw up and drop 5 points against Villa and Everton. But the team is still improving and can only get better.

This season, Man City is without a potent central striker and Liverpool is still the same old stale team.

So the main challenger for the title is Chelsea.
But we aren't a challenger for the title
 

Luffy

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Fair enough, but what I saw on display yesterday were two teams with clear identities and playing styles. We clearly don’t have that as evidenced by the first 7 games, which IMO is unacceptable with Ole being in charge for 3 years. The soft start gave us an opportunity to make a statement instead we’re 2 points from the summit, viewed as a positive by some, but not really when considering the dropped points at home.
Why are you saying 'Fair enough'. Your debater's point is hollow. Crush him already ffs.
 

wolvored

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There's no doubt man utd screw up and drop 5 points against Villa and Everton. But the team is still improving and can only get better.

This season, Man City is without a potent central striker and Liverpool is still the same old stale team.

So the main challenger for the title is Chelsea.
I would love to know what you are on u f you really think it's out of us and Chelsea for the title