Berbatov a flop? If you can call a flop for someone who scored the most league goals in a season ( equal) while playing less games than his competitor, then I don't know what a success is. Berbatov was never a flop. Mata is never even close to what berbatov achieved at United.
Has Juan Mata been a flop?
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran hold a long overdue conversation about United's awful league form with 1 win in 7. They discuss a disappointing draw at Bournemouth, a not so disappointing draw against Liverpool and a crushing defeat at Chelsea - Is time nearly over for Erik Ten Hag?
Then in a special second half of the pod, Nik welcomes Natalie ( https://twitter.com/natalie_17) to discuss the fortunes of Manchester United Women as they booked a place in the FA Cup Final after a historic first ever win vs. Chelsea.
It is somewhat relative. Berbatov played on a team that had Rooney, Tevez, Giggs, Scholes and Ronaldo. In the context of his transfer fee, the expectations of his arrival and what he brought to the team, I would consider him a flop. However, like Mata a really good bloke.
I’m not sure whether Mata is a flop or not, he’s been a good player, but he’s never fitted in and never been played to his strengths.
Berbatov was left out of the champions league final squad that year though. Ferguson didn’t even want him on the bench.
I enjoyed watching him tonight and think he's probably a good one to have in the locker room on a night like this, with a squad like this. He's a mature player who won't lose his head when the kids make mistakes. Some of his interplay with Pereira was fun to see, but they couldn't have gotten away with it in a league game, I don't think.
Calling him a flop is a bit harsh, but he certainly didn't live up to the price tag.
Calling him a flop is a bit harsh, but he certainly didn't live up to the price tag.
That Mata which had 19 goals and 35 assists in 12/13 for Chelsea looked like one of the best players in the league. He could take on players, make killer passed and had dangerous set piece deliveries. He started decently here, but got lost in our quagmire of transition one way or another. Had some ok games at right wing but became a non entity (like quite a few of our team) in many others. Significant decline from his Chelsea days, but still a useful squad player to keep if we have no alternatives
Wan-Bissaka, Daniel James and Harry Maguire are light years ahead of the 2 you mentioned as our best post Fergie signings.
Can you not just be happy with the team you say you support winning 4-0 in Europe with a load of Academy Grads in the team without having a pop at one of the games nice guys, yeah he may be done at the top level as a starter, but as a squad man passing on his invaluable experience he(Mata)has an important part to play in what we hope to achieve this season.
That is because despite being a good player, he flopped. That has been my view for a long time, but he has grown on me and I like him way more now than when we bought him because I've also accepted him as a flop along the way. It isn't his fault and he is a good guy obviously, but despite being a good player he was a terrible signing to make, and to me that made him a flop since he hasn't ever made himself undroppable and that's not what we supposedly wanted to buy. I think the last extension was ridiculous, and just highlights how much of a bad signing he has been instead of it being a big positive to the kids, but whatever at least he is not playing much so the kids do get chances.
Yeah, looks that way. They haven't even been here half a season though. Its not exactly a glowing endorsement regardless.
I thought he looked better the more the game wore on. Probably not straightforward to hit the ground running with his limited appearances and he had some very good play in the 2nd half. Thought the midfield 3 looked extremely weak and vulnerable too though for a lot of the first half. Getting McTominay and Fred behind him would work a hell of a lot better imo but thats obvious i guess. Was good that we got away with resting them.
tbf you'd be hard pressed to find any player whom we signed in this period who met expectations or could be considered a runaway success so some context is essential before you consider him a flop. Of course it felt at the time that when we couldn't get the best out of Kagawa why we were signing Mata in what looks now in hindsight like a move that was made more out of panic and desperation considering how our season was going at the time and that we had only signed fellaini in the summer in 2013.
Definitely a flop. Played some horny football yesterday though.
Matafield and Turin! Two of his best ever moments! Given us some great goals in his time in otherwise dysfunctional teams.
For his two superb goals at Anfield.....No!
In my mind he's a flop because I thought we were getting our own David Silva, but in reality Mata was never going to be that good.
I'm not making any comment about them as players, simply how successful the transfer turned out to be
Veron was a clear flop and it wasn't due to injury - English football simply didnt suit him
Whereas I don't think of Berba or Mata as flops, both were hit and miss but both had enough good moment to be remembered in a positive light for United
And if we are talking.about value then the Mata transfer was not on the record breaking levels of Veron or Berba anyway so expectation level is not the same
Mata has been ok. He was a panic January buy and he was never the right fit for us. Even when we play with a #10, it's hardly ever been Mata and all the mangers have stuck him out on the RW more or less, where is maybe not awful, but not very good. He peaked at Chelsea and we never got that same player at United.
At this point I don't really even like seeing Mata as a squad player. It seems his greatest strength, his technical ability, isn't what it once was and he's just painfully slow both on and off the ball. Hope to see him gone after next summer.
At this point I don't really even like seeing Mata as a squad player. It seems his greatest strength, his technical ability, isn't what it once was and he's just painfully slow both on and off the ball. Hope to see him gone after next summer.
He hasn't hit the heights of his Chelsea days but I'm far from comfortable calling him a flop. Schneiderlin was a flop. Depay was a flop. Di Maria was a flop. Mata's had six seasons with us and figured in some important moments.
His era has been a flop. Ergo, possitum criticizimum him est.
I think calling him a flop is a bit steep.
It doesn't help him that our past managers seem to think he is a winger.
It doesn't help him that our past managers seem to think he is a winger.
An unquestionable flop IMO.
Not a flop for me. He’s had some great games and scored some fantastic goals - but also had some not so great games. Very technically gifted its a shame he doesnt have any pace.
Depends on your definition of flop I suppose, for me someone who has been around for that long and had many good games for us can't be described as a flop.
I think that's what alot of people thought, rightly or wrongly.
Mata has had a pretty good career at United in general, but when you look at it from the perspective of what he achieved at Chelsea and what we expected him to be, he has probably been a flop overall.
He has been a flop yes, was one of our most expensive signings at the time, and has not had that sort of impact
Top scorer in the league, I think thats in line with the expectations of the fee, not sure he was a flop
I'd say he probably has been a flop to be honest. From the player he was when he came here, he's never gotten close to replicating it. Mostly due to being played out of position, until his legs had gone and we actually started using a 10
Hasn't been anything close to a flop. One of our best players in recent years.
Nonetheless, he hasn't ever been as good as he was in his last full season at Chelsea.
Nonetheless, he hasn't ever been as good as he was in his last full season at Chelsea.
Big mistake by Fergie. Berbatov would have held up the ball a lot more better than anyone else. Fergie let him down by not even letting him play in some league matches where we were winning. If he had played about 3 more matches he would have beaten Tevez to the highest scorer. Neither Ronaldo nor Tevez was in the United side that Berbatov became the top scorer.
Sadly yes.
Hes a decent player but Chelsea cashed in at the right time. Technically a good player but he lacks the pace to be any real danger in my opinion.
Hes a decent player but Chelsea cashed in at the right time. Technically a good player but he lacks the pace to be any real danger in my opinion.
Berbatov scored 20 league goals that season but 11 of those came in just three games, all at Old Trafford. Beyond those games, his league record that season is 9 in 29 which is... unspectacular. And that was his best season, by far - by the end of which he couldn't even make the team.
Flop is a strong word but Berbatov was underwhelming, with a few moments of magic sprinkled in.
Three of those were in a 3-2 victory against Liverpool and against Birmingham and Blackburn he scored both opening goals. I bet you could make similar arguments against other league top scorers if you can selectively discard certain games from their record.
I would call him a flop if We constantly gave him a chance at the No. 10 position, so I wouldn't. He's just 'alright'.
We put a plumber to fix the electricity so while you can say the plumber didn't do a good job, you can also say We're idiots.
We put a plumber to fix the electricity so while you can say the plumber didn't do a good job, you can also say We're idiots.
Maybe - some league top scorers didn't have spectacular seasons.
The point is that for the vast majority of games, Berbatov was nothing special; he just had a few outstanding games.
To make it even simpler: I'd prefer a striker who scored a single goal in 10 consecutive games to a striker who scores five goals in two different games and then goes on an 8-game drought. They both end up with 10 goals but to me it's clear who's been the better striker over those 10 games.
I wasn't keen on him being bought to be honest. He was just another name to fill in the mysterious number 10 role that United felt they had to bring in, and everyone they have brought in to play that role has failed and that includes during Fergie's time at the club. He's capable of being sublime and running the game for us, though hardly ever these days. He was never blessed with speed, so when he started out wide he was always going to struggle and his desire to track back when out wide is questionable.
However, somewhere in the midst of all of this successive managers have constantly selected him in squads and continue to play him, and yes at times he's invisible for long periods he's liable to deliver something for you. Would I say he's a flop? I'm not sure flop is the word I use I think he's been a bit of a let down for us, never really stepping up conistently for us as he had at Chelsea, but then we've never played a system suitable for a "number 10" to shine and we've had some good ones who have tried to play that role for us and fail. We've let him down in that sense, but he's adapted the best he can to our style of play and does a job for us when called upon, which is what we ask of our players anyway.
However, somewhere in the midst of all of this successive managers have constantly selected him in squads and continue to play him, and yes at times he's invisible for long periods he's liable to deliver something for you. Would I say he's a flop? I'm not sure flop is the word I use I think he's been a bit of a let down for us, never really stepping up conistently for us as he had at Chelsea, but then we've never played a system suitable for a "number 10" to shine and we've had some good ones who have tried to play that role for us and fail. We've let him down in that sense, but he's adapted the best he can to our style of play and does a job for us when called upon, which is what we ask of our players anyway.
Disappointment rather than flop, considering the money that we paid.
For me yes. Mata symbolises the below average performance of the last 6 years.
We signed him from Chelsea, at a time when he was a regular scorer and assist maker. He was deemed not physical enough for a Mourinho who also allowed Salah and KdB to leave.
Mata was a huge expense at 45m. Despite some ok periods he has largely been unable to contribute, not skilful enough to be a diminutive, elusive 10 like Silva. Not powerful enough to play wide. Generally he has never looked like a top tier player, certainly not like a Man United player. Made me think his Chelsea form was a purple patch, he never did anything close to those numbers for us.
The fact he is still here is largely down to his personality. Thoroughly nice man, therefore liked.
We signed him from Chelsea, at a time when he was a regular scorer and assist maker. He was deemed not physical enough for a Mourinho who also allowed Salah and KdB to leave.
Mata was a huge expense at 45m. Despite some ok periods he has largely been unable to contribute, not skilful enough to be a diminutive, elusive 10 like Silva. Not powerful enough to play wide. Generally he has never looked like a top tier player, certainly not like a Man United player. Made me think his Chelsea form was a purple patch, he never did anything close to those numbers for us.
The fact he is still here is largely down to his personality. Thoroughly nice man, therefore liked.
Fair enough mate. For some reason I remember Veron more fondly.
Wrong time, wrong managers. Great little player though.
Probably my two favourites players ever, more for style and personality than on-field results. Neither was/has been a flop, but it's hard to argue that both met expectations. I don't why this place has to be so extreme in its verdicts. For me, a flop is Alexis Sanchez or Falcao, or perhaps Memphis Depay. Berbatov and Mata? Not even close, in my opinion.
But you could pretty much copy and paste that for every high-profile transfer post-Fergie: Mata; Di Maria; Falcao (not a transfer but still); Depay; Mhkitaryen; Pogba (to a certain extent); Sanchez; Fred (although recent signs are encouraging.) When that consistently happens, just maybe the fault does not lie solely with the player.