Has Martial done enough to be backed as our long-term #9?

RedRonaldo

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Today he was perfect no.9 for us.

And this season so far he has scored 19 goals for us already, can you really ask for more? He is already among the top goalscorer in England.
 

manutddjw

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I posted this in another thread. With Martial and Rashford both on 19 goals, they’re going to be the first 2 players to hit 20 goals for us since Berbatov and Hernandez did it.

How it related to this thread is that, Martial isn’t going to be Ruud, RVP or Zlatan where he’s going to do the bulk of the scoring. Instead I think we’re a team with goals everywhere which isn’t a bad thing.
 

Strelok

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It's not an "of course". It's not uncommon to see Martial wandering around outside the box even when the team was high up the pitch in previous matches. Look I don't want to be mean or critical, he's enjoyed a great night and I'm not ruining it, just hope he could maintain his form and continue to prove himself to be good enough as our long term no. 9.
It's mostly because in those matches he basically had no service sitting in the box.

For example the match against Spurs, in the first half he sit in the box for a good 15-20' then had to come out to get the ball himself because no one was able to pass him a fecking ball.
 

Skeezix

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if Diego Forlan is still loved and adored to this day. Martial deserves more love for his debut goals against Pool as a 19 year old.

He gets stick for his demeanor or lack of smile/expression. But that is the exact reason I like him even more. The simple and fancy-less goal celebrations are even better for me. No dancing celebrations on the pitch (which could often backfire when you are down, and the youtube memes are out)

Watching Pool and City games, and even Chelsea, or any other Big team in other leagues; they create so many chances per game. Our forwards will score much more in those teams

1. For the past five years, we have never had 2 proper creative midfielders who can spot runs and make through passes play together.
2. Combine this with the virtually non existent attack through the right wing.

Previous Managers are more at fault for not fixing these 2 problems even when they could; instead playing Mata or Lingard.

That is why despite their longer United careers, clearly talented (young) players like Martial and Rashford don't warrant the harsh criticisms yet!
And let us be patient with Greenwood (the boy is clearly talented too unlike Depay, Lukaku, Lingard, etc)

For the first time since Sir Alex, I'm seeing a proper attack from the Left, Right wings, and also through the middle with proper creative midfielders and talented forwards with overlapping fullbacks.

It was a thing of beauty!!! Hehe ! Boiiii!
 

KeanoMagicHat

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For people that say he hasn't been consistent, he had one mediocre game against a Mourinho Spurs side sitting way back away from home. Before lockdown, he scored a great goal against Man City to help United beat a top side. Three games previously he scored a stunning header against Chelsea, he also scored against Watford. So that's 6 in 7 now since Fernandes arrived, two great big game goals and a hat-trick. He's in fine form and long may it continue.
 

Andycoleno9

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With good service he is excellent no9. Can play, his hold up play is hugely underrated and the most important thing; he is clinical in the box.
Problem is that people attack him based on some games when our setup was defensive and him and Rashford were solo against whole defence. There is no player who can do much in those circumstances. Look at Kane for example who is the most natural no9 in PL. When he doesn't have service he is invisible.

Also as someone said, he needs ball players around him who know how to play and go direct on goal. Not workhorses like James.
We have excellent no9 people and next year if we buy Sancho and keep Pogba, Martial-Rashford- Sancho attack will tear this league apart.
 

lysglimt

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I just want to point out the following stat:

In the 1999-2000 season when Cole and Yorke had their best season in terms of goals - they scored 39 League goals combined in 60 matches.

After Martial's hat-trick yesterday - him and Rashford have 28 goals in 49 matches. So if they play 11 more games between them until the end of the season and score 11 more goals - it will be the most prolific partnership at our club in the Premier League.

Rooney and van Persie in the 12/13-season scored 38 goals in 65 matches
 

Number32

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It's mostly because in those matches he basically had no service sitting in the box.

For example the match against Spurs, in the first half he sit in the box for a good 15-20' then had to come out to get the ball himself because no one was able to pass him a fecking ball.
I agree, he had no service but he also had no enough space either.

I always said Martial would be deadly if our wingers is a goal scoring thread instead of wide playmakers. When Rashford and Greenwood hold the ball at least 2 defenders were coming after because 1 defender is not enough to stop them to penetrate or scoring a screamer. Then Martial will have a lot of space to be a real no. 9.

It wouldn't work with James, Mata, Lingard, Perreira and other traditional wingers. Martial's weakness is off the ball movement, but to be fair none of our players can do that except Ighalo.
 

crossy1686

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I've finally come to the conclusion his best position is playing as a fox in the box. He's deadly in the 18 yard box, his link-up play is pretty good too, he's a Hernandez, Van Nistelrooy, late Owen kind of player. He'd have absolutely thrived playing under Fergie back in the days.

I think a lot of us, including myself, have expected more from him over the years and the reality is he's not that type of player.
 

Adisa

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People using the Spurs match as a stick to beat him are a bit unfair imo.
In the first half, he had nothing to work with. I can't remember a single pass between the lines that wasn't blocked.
The second half, he was far more lively and with a bit more luck and could have come away with two goals.
 

Jonno

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For people that say he hasn't been consistent, he had one mediocre game against a Mourinho Spurs side sitting way back away from home. Before lockdown, he scored a great goal against Man City to help United beat a top side. Three games previously he scored a stunning header against Chelsea, he also scored against Watford. So that's 6 in 7 now since Fernandes arrived, two great big game goals and a hat-trick. He's in fine form and long may it continue.
Even in the Spurs game though, he almost scored but for a world class save from Lloris. People have been asking for consistency, myself included - but i've now seen consistency in his numbers. He's now having his best ever season at United ironically when he's been trusted with the central strikers role. Well done Tony, and more to come.
 

dirkey

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No, I don't think he has it in him to be our number 9. He has flashes, but he's quite simply not consistent enough as a player, and doesn't score enough goals.

There was a moment the other night, just before half time ... Bruno got the ball and was delaying for AGES with his head up waiting for Martial to make a run. Martial was between 2 Spurs defenders just ambling along looking at Bruno. No effort to make the run. I know this is just one moment in a game, but we see moments like this EVERY game.

He will have a game every 4 or 5 games where he's just insanely good, and looks amazing. But ... all the other games he ranges between average to pants. From time to time he saves himself with a goal or two despite below par performances.

Overall, I think he'd be a fantastic squad player. But he's not good enough to be our number 9 in my opinion. Just too inconsistent. I'd love for him to make me eat my words.
Well ... that was a pretty good start at making me eat crow Tony! Keep it up.

And I'm going to stick to watching foxy boxing, I clearly don't understand football.
 

mitchmouse

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Only pulling this up because I’m interested to see what you think after today, that’s 8 in 10 all comps for him now I think. Like I said we’ve been a different team since before lockdown and Martial’s played a huge part in that
I was expecting to her form you ha ha!

His first two goals were the sort of chances he wasn't taking before; the first time he's looked like a natural goal scorer. His third was a great finish but the sort you would certainly expect him to take. but I still think he disappeared for parts of the game and I still don't believe he will get enough goals often enough (I know it's a unfair comparison, but we ned a Ruud or RvP up front, in my opinion). I wonder just how poor Sheffield United were. They certainly looked a lot slower than us.

I would still be happier with Erling Håland, who, by the way, I'd also pick ahead of Rashford because we need someone who will get 20 PL goals as well as create a lot for others and i don't think either can do that enough. Much of what I think is irrelevant because I reckon we won't get that out-and-out goal scorer in the summer so Marital will go on playing. But I admit, he took his goals brilliantly and set up a great chance for Rashford. He is one of those definitely benefitting from the arrival of Bruno but if we sold him to be able to afford someone like Håland, I wouldn't be too upset
 

Tony247

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I have been his critic all along but his game yesterday was near flawless.

Rashford otoh had butter touch yesterday.
 

Lennon7

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I was expecting to her form you ha ha!

His first two goals were the sort of chances he wasn't taking before; the first time he's looked like a natural goal scorer. His third was a great finish but the sort you would certainly expect him to take. but I still think he disappeared for parts of the game and I still don't believe he will get enough goals often enough (I know it's a unfair comparison, but we ned a Ruud or RvP up front, in my opinion). I wonder just how poor Sheffield United were. They certainly looked a lot slower than us.

I would still be happier with Erling Håland, who, by the way, I'd also pick ahead of Rashford because we need someone who will get 20 PL goals as well as create a lot for others and i don't think either can do that enough. Much of what I think is irrelevant because I reckon we won't get that out-and-out goal scorer in the summer so Marital will go on playing. But I admit, he took his goals brilliantly and set up a great chance for Rashford. He is one of those definitely benefitting from the arrival of Bruno but if we sold him to be able to afford someone like Håland, I wouldn't be too upset
It’s a tricky one, because I agree with what you’re saying but I’m also extremely happy with Martial. We do need the next RvP or Ruud, which could be someone like Haaland, but he’s not available. And Martial is a different type of striker all together. He comes way too deep at times but he has the dribbling ability to bring the ball right towards goal from that position. Maybe a really attacking right winger instead would allow him to play the way he does to the best of his ability.
 

Andersons Dietician

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People saying his movement was much improved can do one. It’s the same thing he has done week in and week out all season just now we have people that can find the runs.

Any old excuse to have a crack really with some people. Need to find a reason to justify how their old opinions.
 

romufc

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People saying his movement was much improved can do one. It’s the same thing he has done week in and week out all season just now we have people that can find the runs.

Any old excuse to have a crack really with some people. Need to find a reason to justify how their old opinions.
Exactly, everyone who has watched Martial properly this season knows he makes runs, sometimes people find him but there is no one helping him. Yesterday, he must have played one twos with Pogba, Rashford and Bruno. That is what a number 9 does, links the play with players around him.

We have watched Martial, we know the quality but the Martial haters will now say, I knew he can do this etc.
 

MalcolmTucker

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This season, in games where Pogba or Fernandes or both have played, Martial has a record of 11 games and 10 goals.

He now has the joint 3rd best goals per minute ratio in the premier league. Above Kane, Vardy, Firmino, Salah, Mane, Sterling, Jimenez etc. He has an even better ratio in all competitions.

@Sky1981 - you've gone quiet
 

Sky1981

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This season, in games where Pogba or Fernandes or both have played, Martial has a record of 11 games and 10 goals.

He now has the joint 3rd best goals per minute ratio in the premier league. Above Kane, Vardy, Firmino, Salah, Mane, Sterling, Jimenez etc. He has an even better ratio in all competitions.

@Sky1981 - you've gone quiet
?

So you only quote me when he just had a hadtrick. Where were you this last 5 years?
 

bsCallout

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The only fair criticisms of his was consistency and not being a poaching finisher.

He seems to really be improving in both regards. Very consistent, particularly with good players around him and last night was incredible to see his no.9 instincts.
 

MalcolmTucker

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?

So you only quote me when he just had a hadtrick. Where were you this last 5 years?
Just find it weird how you were plonked in this thread after the Spurs game where he didn't even play badly trying to convince people he wasn't good enough yet it's been crickets from you after the Sheffield United game.

What do you think of the stats in my previous post?
 

Sky1981

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Just find it weird how you were plonked in this thread after the Spurs game where he didn't even play badly trying to convince people he wasn't good enough yet it's been crickets from you after the Sheffield United game.

What do you think of the stats in my previous post?
I judge a player by his tenure, and his whole progression / regression.

I never called him shit if he doesn't score, nor I wank over when he score more than 1.
 

jamesjimmybyrondean

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This season, in games where Pogba or Fernandes or both have played, Martial has a record of 11 games and 10 goals.

He now has the joint 3rd best goals per minute ratio in the premier league. Above Kane, Vardy, Firmino, Salah, Mane, Sterling, Jimenez etc. He has an even better ratio in all competitions.

@Sky1981 - you've gone quiet
Amazing stats
 

Yagami

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I just want to point out the following stat:

In the 1999-2000 season when Cole and Yorke had their best season in terms of goals - they scored 39 League goals combined in 60 matches.

After Martial's hat-trick yesterday - him and Rashford have 28 goals in 49 matches. So if they play 11 more games between them until the end of the season and score 11 more goals - it will be the most prolific partnership at our club in the Premier League.

Rooney and van Persie in the 12/13-season scored 38 goals in 65 matches
I was actually going to look up something along those lines myself, but you've saved me the trouble. Thanks!

Very cool stats. To think Rashford and Martial have had little to no creative support for the majority of this season, too. Some have really underrated their campaigns this season.
 

MalcolmTucker

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I judge a player by his tenure, and his whole progression / regression.

I never called him shit if he doesn't score, nor I wank over when he score more than 1.
What a load of gubbins. After the Spurs game you microanalysed his half-chance where Dier blocked his shot and posted a table of the top scorers in the PL as a measure of how he isn't good enough (disregarding games/minutes played). Funny how a game later you suddenly aren't interested in current performances and stats. Bet Southampton fans are still talking about Ings' failed spell at Liverpool and Spurs fans are still judging Kane by the merits of his failed loan spells.

This season he's progressed as the 3rd best goalscorer in the premier league with the likes of Pereira and Lingard as the primary creative midfielder for 66% of his games and without taking penalties. It's his first season in the #9 role and he's statistically outperformed Kane, Firmino, Salah, Mane, Sterling, Vardy etc but you keep judging him on the Mourinho years where he was in and out the team on the left. I'm sure if he has a bad game you won't be back in here using it as evidence as to why he isn't good enough.
 

Sky1981

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What a load of gubbins. After the Spurs game you microanalysed his half-chance where Dier blocked his shot and posted a table of the top scorers in the PL as a measure of how he isn't good enough (disregarding games/minutes played). Funny how a game later you suddenly aren't interested in current performances and stats. Bet Southampton fans are still talking about Ings' failed spell at Liverpool and Spurs fans are still judging Kane by the merits of his failed loan spells.

This season he's progressed as the 3rd best goalscorer in the premier league with the likes of Pereira and Lingard as the primary creative midfielder for 66% of his games and without taking penalties. It's his first season in the #9 role and he's statistically outperformed Kane, Firmino, Salah, Mane, Vardy etc but you keep judging him on the Mourinho years where he was in and out the team on the left. I'm sure if he has a bad game you won't be back in here using it as evidence as to why he isn't good enough.
What the feck? micro analysed? It's called calling the GIF as I see it. You know, things people do on a football forum

Seriously mate, calm your knickers off
 

MalcolmTucker

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What the feck? micro analysed? It's called calling the GIF as I see it. You know, things people do on a football forum

Seriously mate, calm your knickers off
You literally counted how many steps Martial and Dier made before Martial struck the ball :lol:
 

MalcolmTucker

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It's in fecking slow motion
It wasn't in slow-motion.

As opposed to you making up your own mind without actually analysing the moments yourself.
Dude, seriously, you're rude as feck. if you want to banter, banter like adults. if not, just put me on ignore
I'm just arguing against your points, while you're the one telling me to calm my knickers, calling me rude and claiming I'm not 'bantering like an adult' rather than remaining on topic
 

Sky1981

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It wasn't in slow-motion.





I'm just arguing against your points, while you're the one telling me to calm my knickers, calling me rude and claiming I'm not 'bantering like an adult' rather than remaining on topic
You do know there's an option for slow motion in the GIF? Don't you? To the point where it's 0.125x , that's 8x slower than real time?
 

MalcolmTucker

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You do know there's an option for slow motion in the GIF? Don't you? To the point where it's 0.125x , that's 8x slower than real time?
So you deliberately slowed down the gif just so you could count how many steps each player made. Sounds like microanalysation to me mate.
 

Quinzaine

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This thread was predictably pathetic after the Spurs game. Anyway here's an update on the top scorers in England this season:

Aguero - 23
Salah - 21
Sterling - 21
Aubameyang - 20
Martial - 19
Rashford - 19
Vardy - 19
Mane - 19
Ings - 19
Jimenez - 18
Jesus - 18
Kane - 18
Abraham - 15
Calvert-Lewin - 15

Only one of those 19 have come from penalties - he's a goalscorer. Can't wait to watch him lead the line for us next season ;)
 

InfiniteBoredom

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To quote a great man, you are all fecking idiots and he’s a great fecking player.

The reaction after Spurs game was pathetic. And it’ll be back again anytime he doesn’t score in the last 7 games of the season. During the lockdown there were pages upon pages of shitting on him despite his last game being one of his best, and it always came down to intangibles like ‘enthusiasm’ or the good old ‘inconsistencies’ - despite Martial being consistent and having comparable numbers with the best strikers in the league this season.

Missed the game due to work but so happy for him. Ever since his 2nd season he’s always had to fight an uphill battle against manager, media and part of his own club fanbase. Glad that Ole has faith on him and has given him to chance to prove his worth.
 

Raven

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I've finally come to the conclusion his best position is playing as a fox in the box. He's deadly in the 18 yard box, his link-up play is pretty good too, he's a Hernandez, Van Nistelrooy, late Owen kind of player. He'd have absolutely thrived playing under Fergie back in the days.

I think a lot of us, including myself, have expected more from him over the years and the reality is he's not that type of player.
Whilst I agree, he's excellent in the box, you're serioiusly underrating his work outside the box.
 

Web of Bissaka

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Did enough to be backed.

Now he can only improve and be more consistent.

I think we still need to expect "lapses" from him in future games but doesn't matter as long as he's improving, which he is so far.