Has Martial done enough to be backed as our long-term #9?

Dante

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He has a point though and you are fighting a lost battle here. Scholes has given Martial shit for years now.
You've given Lingard shit for years. What does that say about your bias compared to Scholes?
 

E-mal

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You've given Lingard shit for years. What does that say about your bias compared to Scholes?
Lingard is monumentally poor at football though.
Anyway Scholes is not against Martial, he just has a different opinion to the rest of us and like every fan, he is entitled to his.
 

Sayros

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You've given Lingard shit for years. What does that say about your bias compared to Scholes?
For such an immaculate being, you're quite thick if you think this is, in any way, a valid comparison to what we're discussing.
 

Dante

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Lingard is monumentally poor at football though.
Anyway Scholes is not against Martial, he just has a different opinion to the rest of us and like every fan, he is entitled to his.
Exactly what I've been saying!
 

eire-red

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The question I have is, why do we need a 'proper' number 9? Rashford, Martial and Greenwood have hit 60 + goals this season. Why change that dynamic in favour bringing in a player like Kane, and banking on him hitting 30 goals a season for us and being the 'main man'.

Liverpool are going OK without a no. 9, and Martial is much more prolific than Firmino. It's been glaringly obvious for the last 3/4 season now that what we need is a right sided attacker. Greenwood is doing fine there, but he'll end up through the middle I think.

When you evaluate our attack as a unit, and bare in mind Rashford and Martial missed significant portions of the season, and Greenwood was by no means a starter, then a combined 60 goal return is pretty impressive, and I would expect even more next season.

The focus should be on augmenting that attacking unit, and not a singular focus on 'should Martial be our main striker'. Thankfully, that also seems to be Ole's thinking with the signing of Sancho.
 

Quinzaine

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Given this thread has taken a bit of a turn, I'd like to point out that Martial has scored 16 goals in the 2nd half of this season (since Christmas when the reverse fixtures start), over a whole season thats 32 goals. Here are some seasonal comparisons to other players who have generally been the top scorers in the last 2/3 years in the England for reference:



Sterling - 31 goals, 3897 minutes (goal every 125 mins) (0 penalties)
Aubameyang - 29 goals, 3725 minutes (goal every 128 mins) (3 penalties)
Kane - 24 goals, 3040 minutes (goal every 126 mins) (4 penalties)
Martial - 23 goals, 3356 minutes (goal every 145 mins) (1 penalty)
Salah - 23 goals, 4061 minutes (goal every 176 mins) (3 penalties)
Vardy - 23 goals, 3428 minutes (goal every 149 mins) (4 penalties)
Mane - 22 goals, 3720 minutes (goal every 169 mins) (0 penalties)


Martial holds his own in that list, and in terms of goalscoring rates, only Sterling and Aubameyang better him this season from open play (Martial and Kane are equal). Considering he has a significantly higher assist tally than all of the other no.9s in that list and how well he complements our other attackers, I don't see any conceivable reason why Martial doesn't deserve to be backed as our No.9.
 

E-mal

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Exactly what I've been saying!
Actually when you analyze Martial's game, he doesnt move like your traditional striker but what he does is that he is adaptable and other aspects of his game are superior to a normal striker. Right now he fits the team to a T because it provides a foil for Rashford and Greenwood who themselves are not traditional wingers nor strikers. I suspect Sancho is in thesame mould.

There are many ways to skin a rat and we ahve chosen this way. What I will say though is that we might need another striker that provides something different like aggression and aerial ability in situations we are chasing a game or adapt to certian opponents. This strker though cannot be an expensive signing, perhaps someone in the mould of Mandzukic or Dzeko at the twilight of thier career.


The team is evolving and so are our forward players and may be Martial still has some levels to reach and in no way is he the finished article.
I wouldnt exchange him for Kane in our starting eleven even if the lather is a better goalscorer.
 

Foxbatt

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Martial is good. We just need variety. This is what saf had with Ole and Teddy.
 

Quinzaine

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Reminder that only 2 months ago a poster suggested that Martial's ceiling as a footballer is the level of Alexander Lacazette :lol: (a player he's already better than). Have we ever had a more misunderstood player at the club?
 

Betson

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He has a point though and you are fighting a lost battle here. Scholes has given Martial shit for years now.
Shit which he has mostly deserved , for years his output has simply not been good enough and pundits were right to call him out on it , that is their job. To see things as they are not how they would like them to be.

He has been a different player in the last few months , his attitude , workrate and output are a couple of levels up from where they were. It is only natural in these circumstances that opinions of him will change.

But that does not mean they were wrong for calling him out when he was not performing as he is now.
 

TsuWave

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If he was the penalty taker. Mon Dieu. His numbers would be ridiculous
 

Adisa

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Reminder that only 2 months ago a poster suggested that Martial's ceiling as a footballer is the level of Alexander Lacazette :lol: (a player he's already better than). Have we ever had a more misunderstood player at the club?
The level of disrespect.
 

Godfather

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Shit which he has mostly deserved , for years his output has simply not been good enough and pundits were right to call him out on it , that is their job. To see things as they are not how they would like them to be.

He has been a different player in the last few months , his attitude , workrate and output are a couple of levels up from where they were. It is only natural in these circumstances that opinions of him will change.

But that does not mean they were wrong for calling him out when he was not performing as he is now.
They didn't call out British players when they deserved it though which was mainly his point. Yes Martial has deserved some of the criticism he received (not all and not to that extent though). But I don't like it when they put a blind eye to others because of nationality.
 

Quinzaine

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I’ll back him as long as he’s here, it’s not like he has been a massive failure. He’s given us some great moments and important goals.

I wouldn’t really want to sell him either unless it’s crazy money as he is a great squad member to have.

Still can’t see him being an Aguero or Kane type player a real go to man, but more a Lacasette type...
Deary me Deery...
 

Wednesday at Stoke

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He's a different class as a #9 but I think he could also do a solid job as a #10 to spell Bruno some relief with Ighalo head of him. His ability to create from stand still is brilliant.
 

VivaObertan

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This is the first time I've felt he has proven through consistent periods of performances this season that he can be our long term number #9. Before now he was way too patchy and his demeanor, attitude and effort in games just wasn't enough but he's definitely done enough now.
 

yfoFC

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If he continues this form till next season then we're potentially sitting on a 35 goal and 15 assists player and that's no exaggeration. He needs to maintain this level and then no one will have any leg to stand on to criticize him
 

RedDevil@84

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"Player X gets criticized when he doesn't play well and gets praise when he plays well" shocker.
The guy had 8,11 and 12 goals in last 3 seasons. I don't find it shocking or blame, if some fans had given up on him.
 

Raven

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"Player X gets criticized when he doesn't play well and gets praise when he plays well" shocker.
The guy had 8,11 and 12 goals in last 3 seasons. I don't find it shocking or blame, if some fans had given up on him.
He was playing as a winger and only played about half of the minutes, if that, in all 3 of those seasons. Whenever Martial has played consistently, he has delivered.
 

Murder on Zidane's Floor

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He lacks consistency. Is at times, unplayable and is clinical in front of goal. Other times, he cannot pass the ball and is like playing with ten men.

The gap between the two is too vast for a top club imo
 

DevilRed

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Needs to up his work rate, but I'd refrain from being knee jerk.

Hasn't had much service. Would expect him to step it up another notch next weekend.
 

Rawls

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I think we have to remember that we only finished playing in the EL on August 16th and that a good few of our players were on international duty as well so we didn't get a lot of preparation time pre-season vis-a-vis most other teams in the league. We also have to consider that we are only two games into the season and that two games is way too small a sample size to properly judge a player's performances. If Martial continues to perform for the next two months like he has for the last two games, then there will be genuine cause for concern. But given the season he put up last year plus his great run-in, I don't see any real reason to be unduly worried.
 

Desert Eagle

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Hasn't had much service but he has been poor to start the year as well. An on form Martial is one of the best players in the world, we're gonna need his A game this season to do anything of note.
 

Idxomer

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Not taking a break after last season might be having an effect on him, and he most likely worked very hard with the French team trying to impress Deschamps.
 

Foxbatt

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We need to play someone close to him. Not him but and CF. This is why I have issues with Ole in playing 3 up front. They do not get into the game as much as they should.
 

arnie_ni

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His bit of play for rashys disallowed goal was brilliant.

Of it otherwise today
 

Red_toad

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Needs to up his work rate, but I'd refrain from being knee jerk.

Hasn't had much service. Would expect him to step it up another notch next weekend.
At times you need to make yourself available to be serviced. He's been pretty much anonymous thus far this season. Can and needs to do better.
 

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Deschamps was only recently commenting on how he's now hitting his potential. He wasn't great yesterday but thought he had a couple of dangerous runs at them and he'll be back scoring soon. With Pogba and Fernandes is midfield you end up with Mason and Rashford getting dragged away from Martial and they don't get to make the combinations.
 

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We definitely need one of Jimenez and M. Dembele or Cavani on one year loan.
 

MyOnlySolskjaer

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By the end of next summer, we'll have no Ighalo, no Cavani unless we extend and only Martial and Greenwood as a possible option. Will have to make a big call at the end of the season.
 

elmo

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By the end of next summer, we'll have no Ighalo, no Cavani unless we extend and only Martial and Greenwood as a possible option. Will have to make a big call at the end of the season.
One doesn't play and the other hasn't played for us yet.

Our problem is still the same as now, we're fecked the moment Martial isn't playing well because he's the only real option upfront with how young Mason is.
 

TheForgottenOne

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One doesn't play and the other hasn't played for us yet.

Our problem is still the same as now, we're fecked the moment Martial isn't playing well because he's the only real option upfront with how young Mason is.
Ole will just play Rashford in the center and van de Beek at the left, of Fernandes which would mean Pogba moves forward and Fred or McTominay take the other midfield spot.
 

RedDevil@84

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It all seems to be going back to square one. The same old story of some form, then out of form or injury or both and then some form again.

Sometimes it is the evil manager, sometimes it is not playing him in his favorite position, sometimes it is team mates not at his level, sometimes coming back from injury, whatever be the reason/excuse, things always seem to go up for sometime before going down.
After a point, it is all tiresome.
 

littleman

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It all seems to be going back to square one. The same old story of some form, then out of form or injury or both and then some form again.

Sometimes it is the evil manager, sometimes it is not playing him in his favorite position, sometimes it is team mates not at his level, sometimes coming back from injury, whatever be the reason/excuse, things always seem to go up for sometime before going down.
After a point, it is all tiresome.
It's rinse and repeat for people and their favorite players. Or the astroturfing team employed by these players.

Saw this for Rooney. Saw this for Pogba. Even saw this for CARRICK, which is the funniest of all.