Has Martial done enough to be backed as our long-term #9?

kouroux

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I enjoy watching Martial play football at his best that's why I've felt he is still decent enough as a squad player but after seeing how stagnant he was on the pitch today I realised that enjoyment can be bought on by someone else.

A good player. I'm okay if he stays but I think his time is up and Pochettino's line up as next manager and his history of a certain type of striker like Kane, Llorente, Jenssen, Osvaldo etc will not leave Martial as one of his favourites.

His wages need a vaccination aswell because they are hugely inflammed not enough intrigue other clubs either.
Llorente, Osvaldo, Janssen ?? They were fecking shite
 

Bebestation

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Llorente, Osvaldo, Janssen ?? They were fecking shite
I know but I'm saying that Pochettino's style of striker to Martial is different so I dont think he gets a chance anyway. They aren't exactly the bulky in the box type.
 

MadDogg

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He scored 23 goals last season without being the penalty taker, and he missed 13 games through injury. He could have potentially been looking at 30+ goals last season without injuries or if he took pens, and that's not in a great team either. Thinking about it like that I think we're potentially being a little harsh due to his bad start to the season.

What does disappoint me though is he doesn't seem to have developed the poachers instinct you want from your number 9, too many games where it doesn't really look like he'll get on the end of any chances or really look like scoring. His finishing has generally been good since we signed him which is how he scored a lot last season despite not really looking like a consistent goal threat. However the rare occassions where he has looked like a goal threat this season his finishing has also been woeful.

I'd drop him for Cavani for a few games or potentially drop Rashford and move Martial out wide.
Good post and I agree with pretty much everything.

People are writing him off far too fast and forgetting that the good he has done actually outweighs the negatives by quite some way. Obviously he's started this season poorly (although he looked a bit better today) but overall he's generally been one of our best players throughout his time here when he's played regularly. I've even seen people complaining about him not being clinical enough with his chances when in reality he's normally very good at that and his issue is more the poacher's instinct getting into the right position as you said. Poor finishing this season seems to be enough to convince some people he's always like that.
 

Barney Bubbles

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After watching the highlights rather than the game I can’t help but feel that Martial is a horrible finisher.

i know it’s only one chance but it was a gimme. Go bottom corner and you’re scoring! Instead he does his usual lazy I’ve scored boot on it and then looks like how didn’t I score?!!

The difference between a goal scorer like Ruud and Shearer and Law was they eyed the ball until it was a goal.
Watch Ruud after he knows he’s scored. His eyes check to see if he’s scored.

Alan Shearer
Dennis Law
Dennis is harder to watch but you’ll see all the of them watch after they know they’ve scored just check.

Martial doesn’t do it.
 
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yfoFC

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The funny thing is in the second half yesterday he started creating openings for us and splitting open their defence with some passes from deep.

I don't know about him as a center forward but we could try him just behind the striker as he's one of our best creators as evidenced in yesterday's second half performance

It wasn't eye catching but if you were looking for it then you would have noticed it
 

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He hasn’t done enough and needs upgrading at this point. Sick of his inconsistency and fallow spells. The guy is 25 now and should be producing the goods most weeks. He wouldn’t be tolerated at other leading clubs.
 

kafta

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Since the tail end of last season, and namely since Bruno has come in, we have been creating a decent amount of chances.

If Martial stick away that first chance yesterday, the game would end 3 or 4 nil and the team would look good, Ole would have less pressure on him and we'd be more optimistic.

I have stopped believing he will ever be a clinical 9 who has the need to score goals. He is a joy to watch, but replace him with some like Haaland, and this team would be much better.
 

Bobcat

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Good post and I agree with pretty much everything.

People are writing him off far too fast and forgetting that the good he has done actually outweighs the negatives by quite some way. Obviously he's started this season poorly (although he looked a bit better today) but overall he's generally been one of our best players throughout his time here when he's played regularly. I've even seen people complaining about him not being clinical enough with his chances when in reality he's normally very good at that and his issue is more the poacher's instinct getting into the right position as you said. Poor finishing this season seems to be enough to convince some people he's always like that.
No doubt he was good season, but the problem is that he has not carried that good form into this season at all. As it stands he has 1 OG, 1 red card, 0 goals and 0 assists so far in the league. Thats fecking terrible.

Hes 25 this year, at that age he should be hitting his prime years so the clock has really run out on him becoming good. He has to deliver now as neither him nor the club can afford to have their preferred no 9 fluctuate between amazing and complete dogshit so much.
 

jamesjimmybyrondean

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I'm still backing him as he really impressed last season. But this season is make or break for him. At 25 he has to be more consistent. He's also been here for 5 years struggling with this same inconsistency.
 

Bebestation

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Llorente is exactly what you just described.
Sorry I meant that Osvaldo, Jenssen, Kane, Llorente, Lambert are all built relatively beefy strikers capable of being predatory in the box.

Martial is the one who is the opposite, the lean and more silky type of player. I think he changes position under Pochettino or he gets sold personally.
 

Isotope

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Ole himself is a striker. A pretty good one also. So he'd be more than able to see if Martial is a long-term solution or not.
 

DRM

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He used to be good at taking the ball and dribbling past opponents. He was even a decent finisher I recall.

Now he barely dribbles, he's been shite at finishing since the tail end of last season (remember the Sevilla game???). Ole should at least mix it up a little, perhaps try him on the left? Regardless, it's clear he's not the player we hoped he would become when we bought him almost 6 feckING YEARS AGO!! he is simply not good enough!
 

Sparky Rhiwabon

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I know he can be boring but Michael Owen made what I thought were some valid comments about Tony yesterday. First he said how it’s not enough at this level to just “get it on target” - he said that 9 times out of 10 you need to be getting your effort into the side netting - that’s what you’re practicing all week to do. Then, secondly, he said that Tony doesn’t seem to want to score enough - this reminded me of Ole's comments that he wants a player who will “break his nose to score” - he obviously doesn’t think that Martial is that man.
 

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No. Supremely talented but I’m fed up of waiting for this guy to arrive. Sick of waiting for a prolonged run of games where he shows the mettle to be what a side challenging for trophies needs. Skill and talent in abundance but lacking something very important. Call it whatever you want, drive, hunger, determination, commitment, attitude or even a mixture of all of them. We’ve had proper forwards at this club in the past and this guy isn’t one of them. Bored of watching him and bored of people still defending him.
 

SSSSnake

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It comes down to confidence and right now he’s running on empty. He missed good chances yesterday and I think he could have had a hat-trick for France. I hope he can turn it around but right now he doesn’t deserve to be in the starting 11 when the likes of Cavani should be getting a chance.
 

SSSSnake

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He hasn’t done enough and needs upgrading at this point. Sick of his inconsistency and fallow spells. The guy is 25 now and should be producing the goods most weeks. He wouldn’t be tolerated at other leading clubs.
this. I’m not sure if he’s lazy or what but he doesn’t make enough runs. For me it’s clear he doesn’t have the right mentality to be here. United need goal hungry winner. I fear for his United career if he carries this form into next year.
 

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There's far too much sentiment and wishful thinking when it comes to a lot of our players, Martial maybe more than any other. People seem to be willing to give him so much time at the expense of the teams long term future.

I'd have him as a squad player because he can still be great and useful for us, but it seems obvious he'd not want that, so he goes, oh well.

I'd love nothing more than to be wrong about him and for it to click long term with him.
 

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I would put him back on the left or even right instead of Mata he could keep switching with Rashford during games. Play Cavani upfront. Get Greenwood to study how he plays, as he will be a better option than either Martial or Rashford for the CF position.
Martial for me would have been gone by now if he had been 10 years older and Fergie had have signed him. He wouldnt have stood his sulking and after 2/3 seasons would have moved him on.
 

GueRed

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If we want to be back up there challenging for the league we need better than Martial leading the line. :lol:

He just doesnt have the mentality to spearhead a top team's attack imo. He lacks the determination and drive which is a shame really because he has the talent.

We just have to make do again this season.

At least we have Cavani this time who can shoulder some responsibility
 

Isotope

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Ole tried to buy Haaland. Says it all really
Yes. Ole tried, just when several other top teams were already into him. It just sounded like a half-arse attempt at that time.

Now we have Cavani, one of the best center-forward around, although he's still coming back from injury. We'll see if Cavani is getting that main striker spot or not.
 

golden_blunder

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Yes. Ole tried, just when several other top teams were already into him. It just sounded like a half-arse attempt at that time.

Now we have Cavani, one of the best center-forward around, although he's still coming back from injury. We'll see if Cavani is getting that main striker spot or not.
I don’t think it was half-arsed at all, he flew to his home town to talk to him & his dad.

according to Jiminez, we tried to sign him this summer.

I think Ole knows we need a proper goal scorer but budget is required elsewhere for now
 

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Judging by Ole's persistence with Lingard historically, I don't think he signed Cavani to compete with Martial for #1 spot. He will always choose Martial over Cavani and I really hope I'm wrong. But if Haaland comes you can bet your house he will be the #1 striker.
 

Isotope

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I don’t think it was half-arsed at all, he flew to his home town to talk to him & his dad.

according to Jiminez, we tried to sign him this summer.

I think Ole knows we need a proper goal scorer but budget is required elsewhere for now
Words were, Ole wouldn't guarantee him a starting spot. Maybe Ole's afraid of hurting Martial's feeling. I thought at that time, it was silly to NOT guarantee him a starting spot. Because what other bargaining chip for him to play for struggling United, when several other better teams would give him that?

Surely there are good strikers that aren't named Haaland in this world. United just need to be smart in the market.
 

golden_blunder

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Words were, Ole wouldn't guarantee him a starting spot. Maybe Ole's afraid of hurting Martial's feeling. I thought at that time, it was silly to NOT guarantee him a starting spot. Because what other bargaining chip for him to play for struggling United, when several other better teams would give him that?

Surely there are good strikers that aren't named Haaland in this world. United just need to be smart in the market.
You keep saying several other better teams. He went to Dortmund. Partly because of game time but also because they’d give him the contract clause he was looking for. But my point remains; we tried to sign him and we tried to sign Jiminez. We are clearly not convinced by our number 9
 

GlasgowCeltic

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I don’t think it was half-arsed at all, he flew to his home town to talk to him & his dad.

according to Jiminez, we tried to sign him this summer.

I think Ole knows we need a proper goal scorer but budget is required elsewhere for now
Neville and Scholes repeatedly calling for a new striker was surely them making Ole's thoughts known
 

Isotope

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You keep saying several other better teams. He went to Dortmund. Partly because of game time but also because they’d give him the contract clause he was looking for. But my point remains; we tried to sign him and we tried to sign Jiminez. We are clearly not convinced by our number 9
I just don't think Ole has been hellbend on getting a new starting striker, if his shortlist only has Haaland and Jimenez, and maybe Kane.
 

Thiagoal

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Watching Cavani’s movement and general hold up play is what we’ve been missing for so long. Against teams that park the bus you need clever strikers that can find a yard of space when no one else can! Cavani can do this- Martial can’t!
 

FrankDrebin

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Anyway, concerning Martial, I was adamant in the summer that he either needed a quality strike partner or more competition for his spot.

Granted we brought in Cavani but I feel he is far to short term, with his match sharpness still in question.
 

noodlehair

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Ole wanted Haaland and we decided not to sign him even though it would have been at a price probably less than half his actual value.

I'm not sure where you can go with that as a manager.

I can never make my mind up about Martial. He sums up the team as a whole. He goes through a spell where his positioning is good, his hold up play and workrate is good, and he starts scoring quality goals with consistency and you think he's cracked it, then suddenly he's back to spending half the game on the wing or wandering miles out of position despite it being of no benefit to anyone.

I feel like he's better when Rashford and Greenwood are either side of him as it forces him to stay more central and use his team mates to find and create space. Although Rashford isn't helping at the moment as he's too often 30 away from where he should be himself.
 

golden_blunder

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I just don't think Ole has been hellbend on getting a new starting striker, if his shortlist only has Haaland and Jimenez, and maybe Kane.
You don’t know who’s on his shortlist. What we do know for fact is that ole has tried to sign at least 2 other number 9s who no doubt would be starters
 

FrankDrebin

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Ole wanted Haaland and we decided not to sign him even though it would have been at a price probably less than half his actual value.

I'm not sure where you can go with that as a manager.

I can never make my mind up about Martial. He sums up the team as a whole. He goes through a spell where his positioning is good, his hold up play and workrate is good, and he starts scoring quality goals with consistency and you think he's cracked it, then suddenly he's back to spending half the game on the wing or wandering miles out of position despite it being of no benefit to anyone.

I feel like he's better when Rashford and Greenwood are either side of him as it forces him to stay more central and use his team mates to find and create space. Although Rashford isn't helping at the moment as he's too often 30 away from where he should be himself.
Raiola was adamant that there was a release clause put into Haaland's contract.
That's one of the reasons we stopped the deal and also one of the reasons Haaland will be on the market in a years time for a cheap deal.
 

Neo_Mufc

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The more I watch Tony the more I see the resemblance between himself and Dimitar Berbatov. He plays the game at a similar pace to him which imo is way too slow required for a striker at Man Utd. The way we open games under Ole we allow the opposition much more possession sometimes requiring more press and he just isn't this type of player.

Just looking at Dimitar's premier league goal stats between 09-12 - 9,12,20,7 compared to Martial 16-20 - 11,4,9,10,17.

He isn't consistent enough to be a Man Utd #9. His goals come in periods of confidence but he will dud the rest of the time. No doubt maybe xmas time we will see him score in 4/5 games and a selection of fans will call him class and what not but for me he's never going to be the striker that we desperately need.

If I'm honest we haven't had a world class striker since RVP.