Has Martial done enough to be backed as our long-term #9?

Stacks

Full Member
Joined
Jul 10, 2015
Messages
7,754
Location
Between a rock and Gibraltar
It's taken long enough but it seems 99% of this place is on the same page when it comes to Martial, and I have faith that many at the club feel the same. It's sad how it's ended up going, but if we go into next season with our current striking options, especially him being our main number 9 I'd lose a lot of faith in the club and our ambition.
For a long time there was a fear that he would go to another club and become Henry.
 

Judas

Open to offers
Joined
Jun 28, 2010
Messages
19,269
Location
Where the grass is greener.
For a long time there was a fear that he would go to another club and become Henry.
I understood that fear a few years ago in a way, but the complete stall in his progression ended that sort of concern I think, if anything he's regressed. I don't see any top club being desperate to have him as their main striker.
 

Hughie77

Full Member
Joined
Oct 22, 2017
Messages
1,308
I don’t see it. He’s looked terrible in games where Cavani played centrally, Rashford goes on the right. Affects Rashford a lot as well.
Agree, its either he plays on left or he doesn't start at all, hes not a striker. Rashford is better from the left , that's why were looking for a right sided player, as Greenwood is probably going to be the front man in few years.
 

NoPace

Full Member
Joined
Jan 20, 2014
Messages
6,113
There’s not a world in which he scores 30 a season. West Ham/Aston Villa/Arsenal level player.
I could actually see him scoring 30 in all competitions at West Ham with Antonio alongside him and Bowen on the right, Rice, Soucek in midfield, a new left wingback and Coufal getting up and down. That's exactly the right kind of set up for him.

Martial is lazy and I hate watching him play and watch him sold, but he has been unlucky finishing this year and he has talent. If he moves, it will depend on the manager and setup and teammates and obviously his own desire to actually get into the fecking box, but yeah I think he could be a very, very good player in 3 years or playing in the Turkish league.
 

We need an rvn

Full Member
Joined
Aug 13, 2015
Messages
2,751
Location
somewhere in the sussex downs
I understood that fear a few years ago in a way, but the complete stall in his progression ended that sort of concern I think, if anything he's regressed. I don't see any top club being desperate to have him as their main striker.
He's the next Lingard situation. He'll do well going elsewhere where he'll get all the love he needs, but won't get as much stick as he gets at top clubs when he doesn't perform which seem to affect his confidence too much.

We need someone who can handle the pressure and drive playing for United and deliver week in week out
 

Bebestation

Full Member
Joined
Oct 9, 2019
Messages
3,530
Seriously, Who is going to pay him 250k a week though?

I cant think of anyone except a Chinese club.

Do players take cuts in wages when signing at other clubs?
 

BusbyMalone

First Man Falling
Joined
May 22, 2017
Messages
5,576
So...what happened last season then? 23 goals, 10 assists all from the center-forward position. Was it a fluke? Considering the previous season he only got something like 2/3 goals in that position (albeit he didn't play THAT many games as a center-forward in that season) his progression was very encouraging.

But the drop-off this season has been substantial, to say the least. I guess it is looking more likely that last season was the anomaly, as it was the only season (i think) that he got over 20 goals. I have never necessarily been the biggest fan of his, to be honest, but I certainly expected more than this.
 

MyOnlySolskjaer

Creator of Player Performance threads
Joined
Nov 27, 2014
Messages
20,194
Location
Player Performance Threads
So...what happened last season then? 23 goals, 10 assists all from the center-forward position. Was it a fluke? Considering the previous season he only got something like 2/3 goals in that position (albeit he didn't play THAT many games as a center-forward in that season) his progression was very encouraging.

But the drop-off this season has been substantial, to say the least. I guess it is looking more likely that last season was the anomaly, as it was the only season (i think) that he got over 20 goals. I have never necessarily been the biggest fan of his, to be honest, but I certainly expected more than this.
No fluke, just a purple patch, has happened for many players. What he gave us last season wasn't his regular level, unfortunately. The sample of 4 or 5 seasons of him tells us what he really plays like.
 

Stookie

Nurse bell end
Joined
Jun 5, 2008
Messages
7,403
Location
West Yorkshire
I really want him to be but it’s unfortunately a no. He can be brilliant in patches but there’s no consistency at all. Seems like at the moment the other 10 players are carrying him.
 

Sandikan

aka sex on the beach
Joined
Mar 14, 2011
Messages
35,736
Has the rest of his season to show that last season's form wasn't a one off.

Will probably be saved either way, as we so clearly need a quality centre back and right sided forward.
Fergie probably would have gone out and got a striker as first priority this summer.
 

Hugh Jass

Shave Dass
Joined
Apr 16, 2016
Messages
7,122
Just watching the Juve highlights in the game they played last night and Ronaldos movement is unreal. Could have had four. Martial just does not have that movement. Does not have the workrate either. Granted i am raising the bar high.
 

ghaliboy

Snitches on Tom Hagen
Joined
Apr 29, 2009
Messages
11,261
Location
Sydchester
So...what happened last season then? 23 goals, 10 assists all from the center-forward position. Was it a fluke? Considering the previous season he only got something like 2/3 goals in that position (albeit he didn't play THAT many games as a center-forward in that season) his progression was very encouraging.

But the drop-off this season has been substantial, to say the least. I guess it is looking more likely that last season was the anomaly, as it was the only season (i think) that he got over 20 goals. I have never necessarily been the biggest fan of his, to be honest, but I certainly expected more than this.
Think about it his last season like this.

All time played at CF in just the league (he only scored 2 goals in the cups according to Transfermarkt).
2 goals and 1 assist in 3 games before getting a thigh injury and missing time.
After coming back he scored 1 goal with 3 assists in 6 games before getting a knock and missing the Spurs game.
In the next 14 games before lockdown he scored 8 with 0 assists.

The 14 games before lockdown was probably his most promising stretch in that little pre-lockdwon period and he played every game up front. This also coincides with the form of Rashford, Bruno and Pogba.
But you can't look at that little period as the complete package, he still had plenty of issues in his game that were obvious and needed ironing out.

After lockdown he came out as a much different player from before in terms of the technicality at a footballing level. The goal record spoke for itself. The hold up play had transformed into something workable and the poacher aspect was at a level that gave the team something to work with.
I think that most people have mistaken his form last season as a complete unveiling of the player that Martial is, but at the back end of last season there were still huge question marks in the technical and mental aspect of his game.
If you were thinking last season going into this season was going to be Martial coming out as the complete package I would have said "you might be disappointed, he needs to still buy in to continue developing", actually I think I did say that somewhere on here.

I'm more sympathetic to him in that he kind-of got dicked around with the Cavani signing. I'm not going to cry with him about it because at his age and where his career is at and his (lets be honest, absolutely fecking ridiculous) wage, but I think it is a genuine aspect of why he hasn't had a good season. Football moves at breakneck speed today and there should be no time to cry about it if you want to play for a club like United.

But at this point in his career, after last season he didn't have "I've made it, this is me as a striker" season. He needed to be at a level of "I need to continue to work on this, this and then this for the next two seasons and honing these aspects is my goal" and it just hasn't happened. The hold up play has moved to a solid and continue to build-on level, the movement is still the same awful that it has always been and the link up play is something for him that has started to corrode in the absence of goals and confidence. (Which is understandable.) The worst aspect that condemns where he is at in his career as the obvious inability to accept that there are huge holes in his game he needs to work on. Last season there was a genuine flag in the sand moment where he made a big leap in his development and instead of continuing that he seems to have stalled like he did in the past.

I don't see last season as a fluke, more a representation of the level he can play at in his comfort zone. If he accepts this bad season and then continues to work his balls off on his game in the absence of form and goals then I am happy to see him continue to get starts either on the left or up front. But him as an asset now is in a pretty scary position. It either needs the bin or it needs backing and patience is probably at a minimum.
 

captain666

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Dec 13, 2015
Messages
313
Location
Philippines
Based on this seasons performances he wouldn't even make No.9 for Salford City!
He has been given every opportunity but shows appalling attitude and mentality,not a United player after May with any luck.
 

L_O_S_T

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Sep 4, 2014
Messages
56
For me, he doesn't have the mentality a top top striker would have.

That burning desire to get to the end of every cross and every through ball. To milk every opportunity to the fullest, taking advantage of every possible movement to gain an upper edge and the relentlessness to do this for 90minutes. This kind of mentality and killer instinct is not trainable, it comes with the very nature of the player.

How many times we see him behind play or not making an anticipatory run. No matter how bad your form is, making movements in the final third is bread and butter for any top striker. He is showing he is currently far from one.

And the worst part, at least if you know you are not scoring well, at least make efforts to track back, or help the team in some meaningful way. His pressing is sporadic and tends to drop his head when he loses the ball. Wish someone would make him watch old clips of Rooney's reaction when losing the ball, turning on the afterburners and tracking back 60-70 yards to win it back.
 

Lemon Moon

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Dec 10, 2020
Messages
24
Our French players seem to have tons of ability but rarely seem to show it. A real lack of consistency.

I believe Martial can play his part up top for us, centrally. In some situations,

I think he is good deployed as the striker when we are playing teams that leave space in behind, not just with his speed but his movement too and passing, I like that he drifts wide sometimes to allow space for other players from midfield.

I would like United to keep hold of him, because he can play a couple of roles, centrally, from the left, maybe even as a SS?

I do think he would benefit from a strike partner but we're never going to go back to 442, even if some teams have successfully used this formation in the Premier league recently.

He's out of form at the moment but he will get back into good form, get a run of games and goals, no doubt about it.
 

Water Melon

before it dries out, eh
Joined
Jan 22, 2014
Messages
3,571
Location
garden bed
Just watching the Juve highlights in the game they played last night and Ronaldos movement is unreal. Could have had four. Martial just does not have that movement. Does not have the workrate either. Granted i am raising the bar high.
Tony is 25 whereas Cristiano is 10 years older. The very least we should expect from Tony is CR7's workrate and desire.
 

BusbyMalone

First Man Falling
Joined
May 22, 2017
Messages
5,576
Think about it his last season like this.

All time played at CF in just the league (he only scored 2 goals in the cups according to Transfermarkt).
2 goals and 1 assist in 3 games before getting a thigh injury and missing time.
After coming back he scored 1 goal with 3 assists in 6 games before getting a knock and missing the Spurs game.
In the next 14 games before lockdown he scored 8 with 0 assists.

The 14 games before lockdown was probably his most promising stretch in that little pre-lockdwon period and he played every game up front. This also coincides with the form of Rashford, Bruno and Pogba.
But you can't look at that little period as the complete package, he still had plenty of issues in his game that were obvious and needed ironing out.

After lockdown he came out as a much different player from before in terms of the technicality at a footballing level. The goal record spoke for itself. The hold up play had transformed into something workable and the poacher aspect was at a level that gave the team something to work with.
I think that most people have mistaken his form last season as a complete unveiling of the player that Martial is, but at the back end of last season there were still huge question marks in the technical and mental aspect of his game.
If you were thinking last season going into this season was going to be Martial coming out as the complete package I would have said "you might be disappointed, he needs to still buy in to continue developing", actually I think I did say that somewhere on here.

I'm more sympathetic to him in that he kind-of got dicked around with the Cavani signing. I'm not going to cry with him about it because at his age and where his career is at and his (lets be honest, absolutely fecking ridiculous) wage, but I think it is a genuine aspect of why he hasn't had a good season. Football moves at breakneck speed today and there should be no time to cry about it if you want to play for a club like United.

But at this point in his career, after last season he didn't have "I've made it, this is me as a striker" season. He needed to be at a level of "I need to continue to work on this, this and then this for the next two seasons and honing these aspects is my goal" and it just hasn't happened. The hold up play has moved to a solid and continue to build-on level, the movement is still the same awful that it has always been and the link up play is something for him that has started to corrode in the absence of goals and confidence. (Which is understandable.) The worst aspect that condemns where he is at in his career as the obvious inability to accept that there are huge holes in his game he needs to work on. Last season there was a genuine flag in the sand moment where he made a big leap in his development and instead of continuing that he seems to have stalled like he did in the past.

I don't see last season as a fluke, more a representation of the level he can play at in his comfort zone. If he accepts this bad season and then continues to work his balls off on his game in the absence of form and goals then I am happy to see him continue to get starts either on the left or up front. But him as an asset now is in a pretty scary position. It either needs the bin or it needs backing and patience is probably at a minimum.
Yeah, the bold part is something I always had reservations about even when his goal record last season was decent. Ultimately, I've never been entirely convinced by him. Yes, he has talent, but seldom does he apply it in a way that makes you think he's going to make it here as our main striker. And as contradictory as this may sound considering his best goal-scoring form has come from the center-forward position, I actually think his best position is on the left. Now obviously he's been poor out there this season - but he's been poor anywhere he's played this season!

I'm not a huge fan of Alan Shearer as a pundit, but he did a bit on MOTD about Martial. What he pointed out wasn't a surprise to anyone who's watched him over the past few seasons, and this season in particular, but it's still shocking watching it highlighted. Basically, his movement is almost nonexistent, and his movement to get into the box especially. He has a tendency to drift onto the left-wing, despite the fact that it's already well-stocked with players. It just seems to be a natural element of his game, and as a result, we have nobody in the box.

And that really is the most frustrating aspect of his game to me. In all the seasons he's been here, he STILL hasn't really improved with his movement off the ball. I don't know what it is, whether he just isn't working on it (which I can't imagine) or due to the fact that it's a skill like anything else, he's just simply not good at it. Whatever it may be, it's frustrating as feck watching him.
 

CM10

Full Member
Joined
Jul 24, 2014
Messages
4,174
The signs looked promising last season and he deserved the chance he's been given to have another crack at it this season but the answer is a conclusive no.

I'd be kind of surprised if he has another season as bad as this one at United but we need a 20-25 goal a season striker you can hang your hat on and Martial is not that.
 

Stacks

Full Member
Joined
Jul 10, 2015
Messages
7,754
Location
Between a rock and Gibraltar
Our French players seem to have tons of ability but rarely seem to show it. A real lack of consistency.

I believe Martial can play his part up top for us, centrally. In some situations,

I think he is good deployed as the striker when we are playing teams that leave space in behind, not just with his speed but his movement too and passing, I like that he drifts wide sometimes to allow space for other players from midfield.

I would like United to keep hold of him, because he can play a couple of roles, centrally, from the left, maybe even as a SS?

I do think he would benefit from a strike partner but we're never going to go back to 442, even if some teams have successfully used this formation in the Premier league recently.

He's out of form at the moment but he will get back into good form, get a run of games and goals, no doubt about it.
He better hurry up if he wants to go to the Euros
 

ghaliboy

Snitches on Tom Hagen
Joined
Apr 29, 2009
Messages
11,261
Location
Sydchester
Yeah, the bold part is something I always had reservations about even when his goal record last season was decent. Ultimately, I've never been entirely convinced by him. Yes, he has talent, but seldom does he apply it in a way that makes you think he's going to make it here as our main striker. And as contradictory as this may sound considering his best goal-scoring form has come from the center-forward position, I actually think his best position is on the left. Now obviously he's been poor out there this season - but he's been poor anywhere he's played this season!

I'm not a huge fan of Alan Shearer as a pundit, but he did a bit on MOTD about Martial. What he pointed out wasn't a surprise to anyone who's watched him over the past few seasons, and this season in particular, but it's still shocking watching it highlighted. Basically, his movement is almost nonexistent, and his movement to get into the box especially. He has a tendency to drift onto the left-wing, despite the fact that it's already well-stocked with players. It just seems to be a natural element of his game, and as a result, we have nobody in the box.

And that really is the most frustrating aspect of his game to me. In all the seasons he's been here, he STILL hasn't really improved with his movement off the ball. I don't know what it is, whether he just isn't working on it (which I can't imagine) or due to the fact that it's a skill like anything else, he's just simply not good at it. Whatever it may be, it's frustrating as feck watching him.
Great post mate, I think he's almost as good up front as on the left now in terms of ability.. But doesn't command a spot where he must play in either of those positions. If that makes sense. If he accepted that he was an 80k/week player and was on that wage, from there trying to build from over the next few years that would be a more fitting position for him to be in. But he's paid like a Balon d'or runner-up/winner and current form like this deserves a swift exit. It makes squad managing him insanely difficult to be fair.

The movement stuff is the worst part for me, he's a reactions player. "Oh I should have been there" type of player. We've had some incredible in the box strikers over the years that are a big contrast to how bad his movement is.

Ultimately I sit in the camp of "we aren't going to get rid of him as he's turned into an asset now". So you've just got to lower expectations and accept the level he is at and then understand he isn't worth the money we paid, nor the wage. Tough for some to do for sure but the reality of the situation imo.
 

BusbyMalone

First Man Falling
Joined
May 22, 2017
Messages
5,576
Great post mate, I think he's almost as good up front as on the left now in terms of ability.. But doesn't command a spot where he must play in either of those positions. If that makes sense. If he accepted that he was an 80k/week player and was on that wage, from there trying to build from over the next few years that would be a more fitting position for him to be in. But he's paid like a Balon d'or runner-up/winner and current form like this deserves a swift exit. It makes squad managing him insanely difficult to be fair.

The movement stuff is the worst part for me, he's a reactions player. "Oh I should have been there" type of player. We've had some incredible in the box strikers over the years that are a big contrast to how bad his movement is.

Ultimately I sit in the camp of "we aren't going to get rid of him as he's turned into an asset now". So you've just got to lower expectations and accept the level he is at and then understand he isn't worth the money we paid, nor the wage. Tough for some to do for sure but the reality of the situation imo.
Not even just over the years; but now!

Cavani has come in, in the latter stages of his career, been here five minutes and he's already dislodged Martial as our number one striker. Now if that isn't a damning indictment on Martial I don't know what is.

And yeah, I'm not sure if we will be able to shift him this summer either.
 
Joined
Jul 31, 2015
Messages
13,979
Location
Somewhere out there
AM is a decent player to have in your squad, but he ain’t an immediate starter certainly not upfront
I understand your point but if he’s not an immediate starter, then he’s not a decent player to have in your squad. No way in a million years does Anthony Martial have the mentality to suck it up and be a good squad option.
 

BR7

New Member
Joined
Apr 22, 2014
Messages
652
Location
Taxi for Solskjaer
I understand your point but if he’s not an immediate starter, then he’s not a decent player to have in your squad. No way in a million years does Anthony Martial have the mentality to suck it up and be a good squad option.
Yeah I see that, I’m thinking if we have an injury he definitely would be an ideal replacement but defo not good enough to be a starter. He is what hoddle called Andy Cole, AM needs 5-6 chances to score a goal.

ps enjoy reading your posts
 

Lemon Moon

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Dec 10, 2020
Messages
24
He better hurry up if he wants to go to the Euros
Yes, times running out for him to secure his place in France's squad.. he needs a run of games but I dont think he's going to get one anytime soon, unless he starts performing & following Ole's instructions.
 

ghaliboy

Snitches on Tom Hagen
Joined
Apr 29, 2009
Messages
11,261
Location
Sydchester
Not even just over the years; but now!

Cavani has come in, in the latter stages of his career, been here five minutes and he's already dislodged Martial as our number one striker. Now if that isn't a damning indictment on Martial I don't know what is.

And yeah, I'm not sure if we will be able to shift him this summer either.
True! To be honest, I've been banging the drum solo that I fans don't want to see Rashford running through the opponents half making bad decisions then play him up front. But I think I'm in the minority on that one and that's fine.

I don't think Martial is going to be shifted, he's turned into an asset much like Pogba that can't be squad managed and binned due to the pedigree/wage. It is what it is, not much we can do there.
 

croadyman

Full Member
Joined
Mar 9, 2018
Messages
7,946
I don't understand what Ole and the management are seeing in him every game to keep starting him. All of the fans can see that he is not good enough and has been terrible for months, so how can our management not see this?

I have faith that Ole may be ruthless with Martial eventually, as he has shipped out a lot of players since being manager.
Might well take Amad showing him something in the wide areas to convince Ole he needs to be ruthless
 

lsd

The Oracle
Joined
Jun 5, 2016
Messages
5,699
Can't believe there are people insulting Andy Cole now by comparing the French Statue to him.

Cole was a top class centre forward Martial is nowhere even remotely close to that snd never will be
 

VivaRonaldo85

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Nov 24, 2018
Messages
598
Another player we’ve over paid contractually and are now lumbered with moving forward (come on Inter). I used to be a temporary member of Martial FC a few years back as I could see the talent and potential. However, at his stage of career now, he can’t still be having his handheld and people worried he might be upset that a rival striker has been signed. Ultimately the guy has it all naturally but if the attitude, determination and will to succeed is lacking, for all parties involved, he’s best off at a new club next season. But I go back to my opening point about the huge contract....
 
Joined
Nov 11, 2015
Messages
1,575
Location
Whalley Range
Yeah I see that, I’m thinking if we have an injury he definitely would be an ideal replacement but defo not good enough to be a starter. He is what hoddle called Andy Cole, AM needs 5-6 chances to score a goal.

ps enjoy reading your posts
Hoddle also said disabled people did something wrong in a previous life.

Andy Cole is the 3rd all time league scorer with 187 goals, not a single penalty either. What ever you think of Cole it's ridiculous to compare Martial to him in any sense. We'd walk this league with Andy Cole up front.
 

Fitchett

Full Member
Joined
Sep 3, 2013
Messages
1,126
Location
Manchester
50 million down the drain. Martial for me is a typical Arsenal standard player. Plenty of talent, but absolutely no fight in him. The type who Wenger would have signed and Fergie steered well clear of.